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View Full Version : Track damage pics!!!


bobcat_ron
01-03-2008, 05:49 PM
I love cruising around on www.catused.com and looking at all the old Cat MTL's and looking at the pics of the damage to the tracks.

Here's a few of my favourites:

P.Services
01-03-2008, 05:51 PM
wow thats some nice work!!!!

bobcat_ron
01-03-2008, 05:54 PM
The best pic I ever saw was on an original 247 with over 6000 hrs, tracks were worn down smooth, right down to almost the nylon, and others I have seen all have a characteristic wear pattern where the roller wheel ride on, it's very odd too see that.

P.Services
01-03-2008, 05:58 PM
so these are the tracks on machines that are for sale? or are they pics of what to look for?

bobcat_ron
01-03-2008, 06:16 PM
No, these are the pics of the tracks on the machines they (Cat) is selling off as used, but more like "ab"-used!

mrsops
01-03-2008, 06:54 PM
i was talking to a guy just the other day and he was saying hes trading in his cat track machine because hes been having nothing but problems with it exspecially the track system its self. he said hes going to a t300

AWJ Services
01-03-2008, 07:19 PM
he said hes going to a t300

Wheel motors or tracks.Both are expensive.Just pick your poison.

mrsops
01-03-2008, 07:24 PM
yeah t300 he is going to go with.. your right this **** is exspensive on these tracks. my opinion dont ever buy a track machine unless 75% of the time your in the mud sand or on dirt

bobcat_ron
01-03-2008, 08:19 PM
i was talking to a guy just the other day and he was saying hes trading in his cat track machine because hes been having nothing but problems with it exspecially the track system its self. he said hes going to a t300


This is a common complaint with any track system, I have seen 3 pics (forgot to save those pics) of CTL tracks with really good damage done and it all comes down to the idiot behind the controls and the care of the tracks.

"The nutt behind the butt".

DUSTYCEDAR
01-03-2008, 08:25 PM
wow that sure is a mess

ksss
01-03-2008, 08:36 PM
Certainly some of the damage you see can be attributed to the operator. I doubt you can attribute all of it operator error. I am convinced that there are some types of ground conditions that the suspended system does well in. A skid steer/CTL is by nature a jack of all trades and you sometimes end up in places doing jobs that you cant predict or did not count on. The guys that keep the suspended system in favorable ground conditions seem to be happy. Those that don't, are not happy. Jobs need to get done and money needs to be made. The best operator in a suspended machine in bad conditions will cause damage. You can see by my photos why you don't see many suspended machines in this country. There are a few. I have yet to see anyone replace them with another suspended machine.

BrandonV
01-04-2008, 08:51 AM
they don't appreciate rocks I'll say that much.

bobcat_ron
01-04-2008, 10:06 AM
The very first pic I think was a result of a bad batch of tracks, the rest are just bad conditions.

turboawd
01-04-2008, 11:03 AM
has cat changed the way they make the tracks?

bobcat_ron
01-04-2008, 11:53 AM
No, Cat has only made changes to ASV's undercarriages on Cat's 247-297 MTL's, not the tracks, ASV has made some minor changes in their "secret formula" of rubber from the first generation of tracks.

ksss
01-04-2008, 08:02 PM
they don't appreciate rocks I'll say that much.


No they don't, but if you look at the components it should not be a surprise. A track with no steel, plastic bogey wheels with rubber on them. Throw that into a rocky environment and you will have problems, especially with crushed rock. I am not saying those components are bad in every situation (except the plastic wheels) the track is much more flexible than a conventional track and of course they are smooth riding and comfortable. TK's machines ride on steel which I don't think can get much more durable, nor can they be any more noisy or rough riding. I guess you just pick your poison.

I saw a 440 CT at the dealer the other day with 230 hours on it and the tracks were completely destroyed, down to the steel. Do the math on that machine and you can see what the operating costs were for that 230 hours. Some guys don't learn until they are paying the bill.

bobcat_ron
01-04-2008, 08:16 PM
No they don't, but if you look at the components it should not be a surprise. A track with no steel, plastic bogey wheels with rubber on them. Throw that into a rocky environment and you will have problems, especially with crushed rock. I am not saying those components are bad in every situation (except the plastic wheels) the track is much more flexible than a conventional track and of course they are smooth riding and comfortable. TK's machines ride on steel which I don't think can get much more durable, nor can they be any more noisy or rough riding. I guess you just pick your poison.

I saw a 440 CT at the dealer the other day with 230 hours on it and the tracks were completely destroyed, down to the steel. Do the math on that machine and you can see what the operating costs were for that 230 hours. Some guys don't learn until they are paying the bill.

Plastic?!?! Bogey wheels?!?! Where?!?!

The Cat MTL's have steel rollers/idlers with heavy rubber laminated to them with solid steel rollers on the rear, the plastic days are gone and all steel roller options are now available for less operating down time but the track life goes down hill a little more.

The bogey wheels are an option (dual level suspension) on the C series.

ASV still uses the plastic rollers.

AWJ Services
01-04-2008, 08:18 PM
I saw a 440 CT at the dealer the other day with 230 hours on it and the tracks were completely destroyed, down to the steel. Do the math on that machine and you can see what the operating costs were for that 230 hours. Some guys don't learn until they are paying the bill.

I have been pretty rough on my machine since it was my first Tracked machine I did have a learning curve.
I do use it for spreading crushed stone alot.
Our soil can be quite rocky as well.

I however see examples just like KSSS is talking about.People wipe the tracks out in a couple hundred hours.
Makes me wonder what the heck they are doing.

Almost all the Cats at our local dealer look like crap after a couple hundred hours.

The Takeuchi is a noisy ride on hard stuff but to me it is worth it.

1cooltreeguy
01-04-2008, 08:43 PM
That sucks. OUCH

iron peddler
01-04-2008, 09:03 PM
easy there bobcat ron...............steel rollers are an option right now not standard on cat.......it has taken a long time for engineers to get the picture....they are kind of figuring it out......operation methods are still any issue with any tracked machine...skidsteer or dozer....if you are a cowboy you will get burnt.

ksss
01-04-2008, 09:04 PM
I have been pretty rough on my machine since it was my first Tracked machine I did have a learning curve.
I do use it for spreading crushed stone alot.
Our soil can be quite rocky as well.

I however see examples just like KSSS is talking about.People wipe the tracks out in a couple hundred hours.
Makes me wonder what the heck they are doing.

Almost all the Cats at our local dealer look like crap after a couple hundred hours.

The Takeuchi is a noisy ride on hard stuff but to me it is worth it.

I agree given the options I would rather deal with a more noisy or rough ride and less cost, than a quieter, smoother ride with more upkeep. TK could do a lot of things to improve themselves. With the upswing in cab quality, hopefully TK will get on that bandwagon. If TK would equip their machines with ride control and a better cab (noise and vibration being the biggest issues) they could negate a lot of their ride quality issues and still have a very durable track system.

Bobcat Ron I realize that CAT made some changes, but still who puts plastic wheels on an undercarriage (CAT did for how many years?) and laminating rubber to steel and using them in the undercarriage seems "susceptible" to damage. I realize for some guys it works it just all seems very delicate to me. I thought CAT would try and make the new C series undercarriage more bullet proof. I guess will see how they did when you and Tim get some more hours on your machines.

Fieldman12
01-05-2008, 09:13 AM
You know Cat blows my mind on the undercarriage issues with MTL's. I mean how long now has Cat been making large dozers that are in the worst environments in the word? Cat "knows" how to build an undercarriage for a MTL so why dont they get it in gear. Rubber and metal just dont match up well.

KTM
01-05-2008, 10:06 AM
I agree, Ive read that many of the undercarriage componets on the Cat are maid by Camoplast, a company that makes parts for snowmobiles.

bobcat_ron
01-05-2008, 07:07 PM
One of the reasons Cat may have gone with ASV is due to all the high speed travel that most skid steers have to do, and give a customer a CTL, and they are going to do alot more travelling between point A and point B, ASV's rubber and rollers are superior to any CTL system because they can take the travel speeds and not break down the track due to heat.

ksss
01-05-2008, 07:13 PM
Yes there is truth to that. The CAT tracks are more resistant to heat build up, I am not sure that the trade off is worth it since the replacement hours between the CAT tracks and regular tracks does not appear to be that much different. The regular tracks also appear cheaper to replace than the CAT tracks.

bobcat_ron
01-05-2008, 07:29 PM
Now their tracks are at par with the CTL crowds, oil has gone up and so did rubber, I paid $3800 with taxes 3 years ago for the T190 12.5" tracks, now I would have to pay (if I kept that spawn of Satan) $4400, for and extra $200 (give or take) I can get my ASV tracks when the dollar is good again.

mrsops
01-05-2008, 08:05 PM
ron why would you pay 3800 for t190 tracks i hope you didnt buy them from bobcat? ebay has had the bridgestone tracks for 1,500. and i went with mcclaren tracks for 2,000

bobcat_ron
01-05-2008, 11:13 PM
Shipping heavy items across the US/Canada line is expensive and by the time it hits my yard, the cost is the same.

$3800 for the pair BTW.

GradeMan
01-08-2008, 01:25 PM
Way to much money 4000, for tracks that like buying new chains for the dozer.

Kepple Services
01-08-2008, 11:46 PM
I put a new set of tracks on my T300 for $3900, but it also included sprockets as well.

YellowDogSVC
01-09-2008, 09:30 PM
I put a new set of tracks on my T300 for $3900, but it also included sprockets as well.

at how many hours?

Kepple Services
01-09-2008, 11:57 PM
a little over 800 hours.

bobcat_ron
01-10-2008, 09:40 AM
Wow, that's not bad, you can get more life out of them if they were the narrow tracks, but then the machine really suffers.

NBI Lawn
01-10-2008, 06:43 PM
I was at the Cat dealer today looking at my new machine and took a peek at their rental machines. All of them had F'ed up tracks on them. Kinda funny but worries me at the same time.

ksss
01-11-2008, 12:01 PM
The CAT rental store here stopped renting MTLs. If you want a tracked machine for rent you get a CAT skid steer with the VTS system. The saleman said that the costs were out of control on the rental MTLs. Hmmmm ....

KPS
01-11-2008, 12:27 PM
Thats very interesting...... When the Cat rental store or dealership is on the hook for the repair bill they don't wanna let people USE thier flagship undercarrige:confused:

bobcat_ron
01-11-2008, 02:16 PM
Must be alot of nuts who like abusing machines.

ksss
01-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Must be alot of nuts who like abusing machines.

Without a doubt. It shows I think the importance of the ground conditions to this undercarriage. Of course rentals really suffer because no one cares about the long term condition of the machine, at least the customer doesn't.


An arguement could be made that buyers are given more instruction on the operation of the MTL and that time is not spent with those who rent (or they know that becuase it is a rental that it will get abused regardless). I don't know, I have never bought or rented one. However there is no doubt they are not confident enough in the durability of the undercarriage to let it go out on rental. That does say something. I had posted this before and others had responded with the same information so it might be a CAT rental division decision I don't know. There is no doubt that the VTS would be cheaper to go through than a typical MTL undercarriage, so from a rental prospective it probably just makes sense (which is also a clue).

RockSet N' Grade
01-11-2008, 03:42 PM
Ksss........have you installed your VTS yet or are you waiting for more snow day projects?

ksss
01-11-2008, 03:50 PM
I am using that machine to push snow so I don't plan on putting on yet. However I guess I could put on make sure it fits and then put the tires back on. You bring the beer and I will order the pizza.

GradeMan
01-11-2008, 06:48 PM
what's the difference between the two types of track systems? I pretty sure they rent both types here, I haven't seen any damages like those posted. I don't even think they even change tracks yet.

bobcat_ron
01-11-2008, 06:53 PM
what's the difference between the two types of track systems? I pretty sure they rent both types here, I haven't seen any damages like those posted. I don't even think they even change tracks yet.

Which track systems, the ASV and VTS or the ASV version 1.0 and the ASV version 2.0?

Digdeep
01-11-2008, 09:17 PM
Rental was, is, and always will be a nasty , but necessary practice for equipment dealers. I can remember renting out skids and mini-ex's at the bobcat dealership I worked for and it was amazing how fast a rental customer could basically destroy a piece of equipment. It was very difficult to qualify the rental customer with regards to "exactly" what he would be doing with the equipment. Many would say they were just going to be doing some minor landscaping, but when it came back you could tell that it was used a battering ram, pry bar, hammer, stump yanker, you name it. The only thing we could do was try to recoup the damage (very difficult) or build it into the rental rates. This is especially true for the rubber tracked machines regardless of make or model.

Kepple Services
01-11-2008, 10:07 PM
I am not the easiest on my machine I will be the first to say that. I do a lot of concrete demolition with it and run over broken pieces. I was really surprised actually that they lasted as long as they did. Even though I am not the easiest on them, I still try to be as careful as possible.

Scag48
01-11-2008, 10:43 PM
Regardless of undercarriage type, concrete isn't friendly on any rubber tracks. If you're doing concrete demo and got that many hours out of your tracks, I'd say you did good.

KPS
01-11-2008, 11:48 PM
The owner/operators will always take better care to watch what they are running on or over. Tracked units require maintenance that most renters aren't gonna do.

bobcat_ron
01-12-2008, 11:21 AM
Regardless of undercarriage type, concrete isn't friendly on any rubber tracks. If you're doing concrete demo and got that many hours out of your tracks, I'd say you did good.


70% of my 800 hours on my T190 tracks were demo work.

AWJ Services
01-12-2008, 11:25 AM
70% of my 800 hours on my T190 tracks were demo work.

Hope you can say the same about the Cat.

bobcat_ron
01-12-2008, 11:32 AM
Nope, got a 500 pounder jackhammer going on the Hitachi mini this Spring, that'll make me more money and hopefully bring in a bigger trailer to haul both machines.

bobcatexc
01-12-2008, 12:02 PM
Talking about tracks, At work we've got a rubber track loader and this summer one of the tracks come apart and the other one looks just as bad, well they decided to just replace the one and keep runnin the other one, well so far the bad one is still holdin together, does anybody else do this.

Scag48
01-12-2008, 12:03 PM
I never understood breakers on skids/CTL's. I suppose the advantage would be less pins and bushings to wear out plus those pins and bushings are larger in size. You can also run a larger breaker on a skid, but it seems to me for most light demo work that doesn't require a 120/150 with a hammer, a little baby hammer on a mini is a good way to go.

ksss
01-12-2008, 12:53 PM
A breaker on a skid steer is faster to use and with much less wear on the host machine, as well as easy to switch off and on. They both have their place but I keep it on the skid steer whenever possible. Breaking rock for trenching and sometimes some types of concrete removal require the excavator but that is about it for me.

bobcat_ron
01-12-2008, 04:16 PM
I can only use the mini with the breaker in areas where I can't get around or over something with the MTL, but I'm also limited to height as the cab is 98" to the top where as my Cat is only 83".

dozerman21
01-12-2008, 04:57 PM
Talking about tracks, At work we've got a rubber track loader and this summer one of the tracks come apart and the other one looks just as bad, well they decided to just replace the one and keep runnin the other one, well so far the bad one is still holdin together, does anybody else do this.


I would have replaced them both if the other is also in bad shape. You'll be lacking in traction on the old side, and depending on how bad it's worn, it could effect the performance of the machine. It will also cause the new side to wear faster, not to mention it's just easier to do sides at once.

bobcat_ron
06-30-2008, 01:56 PM
I thought I would resurrect this thread from the dead I made, here's what VTS tracks look like, not sure of the hours, but the VTS frames are really rusted.
The cracking in the rubber is from that sharp angle on the rear caused by the very small roller/idler:

ksss
06-30-2008, 04:34 PM
I think the cracking is from UV exposure.

BIGBEN2004
07-01-2008, 06:38 AM
I think they put a bad paint job on them all. Everyone I see has major rust on the undercarriage like the ones in your pictures. As far as the cracking is concerned that will eventually end the life of those tracks in the picture before the tread is completely gone. That is not a very good thing since they cost a fortune.

What machine does the others in the picture go on? They look huge beside the ones you are pointing out.

AWJ Services
07-01-2008, 07:32 AM
Those tracks are pretty worn anyway.
They do not look like they have many hours left?

Construct'O
07-01-2008, 09:46 AM
If the pair shown is off the same machine,then i would guess one side has already been replaced sometime or another.

As long as the pins are still holding up and traction is not that important the tracks has still some good left in them.Especially the one without all the cracks.

The way i see it! as long as it has tracks ,tires ,or tits it's trouble!!!!!!!:rolleyes::usflag:

bobcat_ron
07-01-2008, 09:04 PM
I think they put a bad paint job on them all. Everyone I see has major rust on the undercarriage like the ones in your pictures. As far as the cracking is concerned that will eventually end the life of those tracks in the picture before the tread is completely gone. That is not a very good thing since they cost a fortune.

What machine does the others in the picture go on? They look huge beside the ones you are pointing out.

That set came off the C series, there are 2 other sets with new tracks but they are for the bigger C's and they have the wider tracks.

Nel-Martin
07-01-2008, 09:10 PM
man o man !!! just hope i never see my track's in that condition on the T190!!!

bobcat_ron
07-01-2008, 09:15 PM
man o man !!! just hope i never see my track's in that condition on the T190!!!

You will, all in due time, mine were like that and the inner steel imbeds were showing through.

Best advice is keep the machine parked for long periods of time in the shade, indoors or put plywood over the tracks to guard against UV exposure.

Digdeep
07-01-2008, 10:49 PM
You will, all in due time, mine were like that and the inner steel imbeds were showing through.

Best advice is keep the machine parked for long periods of time in the shade, indoors or put plywood over the tracks to guard against UV exposure.

Good advice Ron. Sun will affect track life if they sit for too long. Those cracks in those tracks are not from the sun. They are from working.

bobcat_ron
07-01-2008, 10:52 PM
If I had a wheeled skid, I'd be scooping up those VTS frames PDQ, they are going for $5500 USD on CatUsed's site, that's dirt cheap!

Nel-Martin
07-01-2008, 10:58 PM
i'll most likely will go for the mcleran tracks any way's , i don't find the C pattern to be much good . i have drivin a bobcat CTL with the mcleran track's on . there's a world or diffrence !!!