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View Full Version : Lazer vs. Super Sufer


Schlepie
10-20-2001, 01:05 AM
Looking forward to purchasing my first ztr at the beginning of next season. Have a 36 metro now. I'm also a solo operator and the ztr should help. I'm looking at a 44" lazer w/ 19koh for ($5799) vs the Surfer 48" ( $4900). Both with floating decks that change heights on the fly. One stands, the other sits. I'm leaning towards the Lazer but could use some pros and cons on both from those that have used or are using them both. I will mainly be using these on residential and I dont want to pass on the larger jobs like I have this year. Thanks

little green guy
10-20-2001, 01:19 AM
I had the same debate with my self in the beging of the year, I was between the 52" write stander and a 60" lazer, I went with the lazer. The reason I went with the lazer was:
1) more attachmants (ultra-vac, ect...)
2) hieght ajustment
3) liquid cooled option
4) faster ground speed, better for bigger jobs

I realy do like the standers though, the other company I worked with had a 52" sufer and i loved that machine, there so muenuverable, cuts great, and you can do almost any hill. I think I may buy a stander next year. I think the best setup is a stander, a ZTR and a walkbehind. The standers are cheap too. I don't think I'd get a super sufer though, I like the Wright Standers better, I wish they still made the old suffer though, they where the best.

Lawnworks
10-20-2001, 02:10 PM
If I were you I would get a Lazer b/c they are more efficient and make your job enjoyable. I do like those Surfers though, they look pretty cool. If you are not maowing postage stamps I wuld definately get the Lazer. I think Exmarks and Choppers are the best mowers out there. But really even on small lawns w/ no gates I think a bigger mower will do fine. Good luck!

TLS
10-20-2001, 05:42 PM
Schlepie,

First off, dont make price your deciding factor. Second, get a 52" Lazer HP. The 44" are real hard to trim up against a fence or house. The rear tires are only as wide as the deck, no side offset. The 48" only gives you about 2" on either side of the tires. The 52" gives you more offset, bigger engine options, much faster speeds and 8" more cut for not too much more money.

I have never seen any Surfers other than magazine pics. Those on here that have them seem to really like them. Just remember, standing is only a half step above walking! Sitting is easy and comfortable on your knees and joints.

65hoss
10-20-2001, 06:35 PM
I tested the Wright Stander and the dane surfer. I liked the Wright better. Only because I felt more stable on it. Cut wise I don't know. Neither of them did I feel safe on like I do on a rider. The standers still have the same ground speed as a w/b with a sulky. You gain no production, but a Z you gain production, comfort, and speed.

65hoss
10-20-2001, 06:35 PM
Not to mention the Z gives you better control on hills.

lawnboy82
10-20-2001, 06:55 PM
How do you even use a stander on hills? I remember I tried one out a few months ago. I was scared pi$$less when I would put in on or take it off the trailer. I just can't see that thing as not flipping or losing control going up and down big hills.

little green guy
10-20-2001, 07:08 PM
The thing about standers is they take some getting used too, once you use them a while your views WILL change about them. They are VERY stable once you get used to them, more muenurvarable then a walkbehind and much more productive too. In my oppinion if you are doing lawns 1/2 acre to 1.5 acres a stander is the best bet.

rodney
10-21-2001, 07:08 AM
buy the great dane if you like scraping decks and dog terds (clumps)all over the lawn
or
you could buy a mower thats praised by lawnsite members
ex-mark

GrassChopper
10-21-2001, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by rodney
buy the great dane if you like scraping decks and dog terds (clumps)all over the lawn
or
you could buy a mower thats praised by lawnsite members
ex-mark

I don't understand this Rodney. I own two Wright Standers. In my opinion, they are better than the riders because:

They take less space on the trailer

They are just as fast as the riders

They offer greater visibility

I don't scrape decks or dog turds on the lawn

If you haven't already, check out the Wright Centaur. You can sit and adjust deck height on the fly.

GrassChopper
10-21-2001, 12:14 PM
P.S.

The standers offer more maneuverability on hills because when you lean, you change the center of gravity. I mow a couple steep hills with the standers that I had a hard time with when using the w/b. Common sense and experience will enable you to mow very steep inclines with the standers. Bythe way, the inclines are right against the water, one slip and it's boat anchor time.

Schlepie
10-21-2001, 10:31 PM
The Wright Centar is an awesome looking machine, but down here, for a 52" it was priced as much as the big Lazers right around 7k.

Martino
10-21-2001, 11:48 PM
Schlepie:

Would encourage you to buy at least a 52" deck with either the Stander or the Super Surfer, if you go that route. You really need that extra deck for trimming. I would rather have the SS because of the ease of height adjustments and it appears that Great Dane has worked thru the early problems that they had with this mower. Having John Deere behind this product will mean a whole lot, too.

I hate to be disagreeable, but 65Hoss couldn't be more wrong when he says that the ground spped of these is the same as a WB with sulky. Not even close! The stand on mowers have the same hydro setups as sit down ZTRs, thereby being nearly twice as fast.

watatrp
10-22-2001, 08:09 AM
In defense of the Super Surfer I would like to let you know that I have a Scag SSZ also and prefer the Surfer. I think I had the first Surfer off the assembly line because I was the the R & D department for all the parts that broke. Since all the bugs are fixed it's a great machine. First off, standing is not a factor unless you are going to be on the machine for more than an hour. Most of my stops are that or less. As far a using it on hills, it is actually superior to the "sit-on" machines. The center of gravity is significantly lower. I can take the surfer places I would never take the Scag. Think about it, on a ZTR you sitting on a seat about two feet off the ground. On the Surfer, your feet are where the weight is transfered to the machine at about four inches off the ground. The Surfer is also more productive because you don't have anything behind you to worry about when making turns at inside corners. Basically your rear end is the back of the package. Ever had to stop and pick up trash? On the surfer, just step off and pick it up. The safety features for the blades stop the blades when you let go and start right back up when you grab the handle. On the Scag you have to stop the blades with the PTO, move the handles out of the way, climb off the machine, you get the picture. If you can save five minutes per account with a machine and you do 10 accounts a day that equals an hour earlier you get home or one more that you can cut.

kutnkru
10-22-2001, 08:42 AM
If you are looking at the smaller sized decks (52 and below) I would seriously consider the stander option. If you are looking for productivity then you MUST bite the bullet and purchase a Z with at least a 60" deck and 25hp motor!!!

There are many pros and cons to both machines good or bad IMHO if you are not going to be able to utilize a 60" plus deck then you are not ready for a Z.

Just my .02
Kris

Schlepie
10-25-2001, 12:24 AM
Thanks for the help. Talked to a dealer today and he said since JD took over , deck problems arent a problem. When they were they were replaced during and after the warranty period. Still need to demo though. Thanks

scottb
10-25-2001, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by kutnkru
If you are looking at the smaller sized decks (52 and below) I would seriously consider the stander option. If you are looking for productivity then you MUST bite the bullet and purchase a Z with at least a 60" deck and 25hp motor!!!

There are many pros and cons to both machines good or bad IMHO if you are not going to be able to utilize a 60" plus deck then you are not ready for a Z.

Just my .02
Kris
I think you just sold me on the Stander I dont need anything bigger than a 52" myself and on my small lawns the stander makes more sense. But as my business grows Lazer here I come.

I like your logic kutnkru

strickdad
10-25-2001, 11:08 AM
why not consider the charoit jr? we have 2 of them . the production numbers are good on them, and the price is even better, 5600.00 for a 48" and 19 kaw.

guntruck
10-25-2001, 02:08 PM
Let me tell a little story real quick, those of you who are familiar with me know im for the surfer through and through. My 61" chariot was in the shop, all they had to give me was a 52" surfer, i had no problem with it because my chariot was suppose to be back before i did my big commercial. Well it wasnt, so usually we do a 6acre or so site in about 4-5 hours with a 52" w/b and a chariot 61" ztr. This day we only had a 52" surfer and a 52" belt w/b toro. I had a new guy ont he toro who is ok but not real fast and my brother (experianced on the surfer) operating the surfer. We were minus 9" on cut and minus a few mph on ground speed. We finishe dthe whole site in 3 hours and 45 minutes. With the same crew we always use. This is a very hilly property and there is no doubt thats the reason it was faster with smaller mowers. I can attest that the surfer is much better than ANY ztr on hills. Those of you who are shaky or scared of the stander on hills, you have every right to be it is scary. I was shaky until i got confidence in the machine and took it to its limits now i love it and if i had it to do all over again I would have bought the surfer in the begining and saved for a chariot. I can honestly say on this machine you have to have a sac, but you cant demo for a day or couple of hours and down it because in that short amount of time you havent even started opening up its capabilities.

K9LWT
10-25-2001, 05:36 PM
I went with the Stander and I really like it. The only reason that I would go with a ztr is for leaf collection. I think that the Stander is just as productive if not more productive than most of the ztr's. Someone mentioned the perfect setup before, I forget who but I agree-get a ztr with a collection system and a Stander-you can't go wrong.

danlawnser
10-25-2001, 08:50 PM
I am thinking of buying a Super Surfer this weekend. All the guys that have them say the same thing. The Surfer will make you more money on smaller yards than such as the Chariot. I really like the Super Surfer especially on hills. I was wondering what kind of prices you all got on a Super Surfer with like a 52 inch cut? thanks

Schlepie
10-25-2001, 09:31 PM
Down here one dealer I spoke with recently had the 48 for 5,300.
not sure of the other sizes.

kutnkru
10-25-2001, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by scottb
I think you just sold me on the Stander ... Please send commission checks to:
WILL MOW 4FOOD
1 Lillypond Ln.
Katonah, NY 10069

I just think that all too often contractors dont think things through. I could squeeze a 60" wb into most properties. However, there are just certain places that it is overkill and clients ARE aware of this and like the fact that we try to coordinate the mower for the size of the property being serviced.

If I ever get to the point where I have alot of wide area commercial properties, I would probably invest in a Z for these areas ONLY.

Kris

syzer
10-25-2001, 11:17 PM
I am 100% for the surfer. We have had on numerous occasions had one for a week - 3 weeks at a time when the chariot (with the lovingly incredibly reliable kohler engine, yeah right) was in the shop.
I hope that our chariot breaks down just so we can get the surfer. We almost always get one of the original fixed deck 52" surfers but have also had the 52" super surfer.

I cannot see how anyone would down this machine. I can really only reiterate what others have previously mentioned but again many advantages:

Less room on trailer.

Much more visibility.

Greater hillside stability.

Just as fast.

100% faster and easier to stop and get trash without disengaging breaks after throttling down hitting brake and all that crap.

Very versatile.

Gets into tighter spaces.

Cut equal to any ZTR.

This thing has to be shown to ppl who are very experienced on it to believe and see what it can do. Our dealer swore to us it would outperform a WB in any situation which of course I did not believe. We used it once for the first time for a couple of hours and I took it back laughing telling him it would never out perform a wb. Then he told us stories of a guy who uses one for everything and these hills he described were unimaginable.

So the next time we took one out I said **** on it I will see how maneuverable this thing is or I will flip it and tell the dealer he shouldn't have told me stuff it wasn't.

Well by the end of the day I could not believe the hills I had cut and everything the dealer has told me was 100% accurate. The machine is simply put incredible and even though the ztr has its place, I would surely take the surfer over a ztr now any day.

scottb
10-26-2001, 04:42 PM
I just think that all too often contractors dont think things through. I could squeeze a 60" wb into most properties. However, there are just certain places that it is overkill and clients ARE aware of this and like the fact that we try to coordinate the mower for the size of the property being serviced.

I also fdeel that too many people use overkill on some properites. Some lawns I have witnessed people using a 48"wb on the tight areas and a 60 on the larger places on the same lawns. It just looks to me that a 52" stander could do both areas and you would only have to unload one mower.

danlawnser
10-27-2001, 10:12 PM
hey boys,
I got the super surfer with the 17 kaw electric start on the 52. Oh I think that the surfer and the scamper are going to make a perfect match. I tried out the super surfer and then the hustler walkbehind but I felt that after using the super that the hustler was to long. I mow all residentials and felt that a 52 and a 48 a great match.
Then I got home and tried the mower out. It was so nice on my yard I personally felt like it mowed faster than the toro z I used once. go DANEEEEEESSSSSSS!