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Infinity Landscapes, Inc
01-05-2008, 12:28 AM
Who likes what and why? I have used a few diff ones like unique, nightscaping h3o Etc. Unique I thinks is good for the higher taps but the lugs are so low and by the time you get 10- 15 wires comming in. things start getting very tight and there is not alot of room for all the wiring. Then you start running out of commons. What a pain trying to stick three wires into a single lug then you have more to intall around that mess. Nightscapings trans I feel are more user friendly. All the taps are on one side making it easy for the wires to be installed then you have the high, medium, and low settings. I usally crimp all my wires before they are installed into the taps after I have all the voltage and taps figured out. Also who does heat shrinking on wires. I do I know its very time consuming but I have worked on way to many systems that have water prof conections and the wires still get water in them. Just some things to kick around. Thanks guys. LIGHT ON!

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-05-2008, 01:33 AM
I am a big fan of the Nightscaping H30 Series of Powercenters. I have built my business on these units and find that they are rock solid constant performers. The most unique thing about the Nightscaping transformers is their modular control bay and myraid of options which install into that bay. It would be nice if they would update the cover to a hinged door with a clasp, but other then that I dont think you can go wrong.

I am nearing 1000 units installed to date and have never had one failure. I have had one returned because it sustained a direct lightning strike and no longer worked... but it was replaced on 'warranty' immediately.

Enjoy.

pete scalia
01-05-2008, 02:22 AM
Who likes what and why? I have used a few diff ones like unique, nightscaping h3o Etc. Unique I thinks is good for the higher taps but the lugs are so low and by the time you get 10- 15 wires comming in. things start getting very tight and there is not alot of room for all the wiring. Then you start running out of commons. What a pain trying to stick three wires into a single lug then you have more to intall around that mess. Nightscapings trans I feel are more user friendly. All the taps are on one side making it easy for the wires to be installed then you have the high, medium, and low settings. I usally crimp all my wires before they are installed into the taps after I have all the voltage and taps figured out. Also who does heat shrinking on wires. I do I know its very time consuming but I have worked on way to many systems that have water prof conections and the wires still get water in them. Just some things to kick around. Thanks guys. LIGHT ON!

Acme and federated buck boost

steveparrott
01-05-2008, 08:36 AM
Have you guys heard about the new soft-start feature on the CAST Master Series Transformers?

Mike M
01-05-2008, 08:53 AM
are they available yet, steve?

Pro-Scapes
01-05-2008, 08:56 AM
I have primarily used CAST in the past but have an issue with MDL now. It seems all manufactures who use mdl have been having an issue with the units popping breakers at the main panel.

In an EXCLUSIVE community we have done a few jobs and both had transformers that needed to be swapped out. Looks bad for us. 1 was a cast and 1 was a kichler and I still have 1 cast i am questioning on the popping of breakers.

The unique seems ok but I have issues with the control options here. You cant fit in some of the timers I like to use and the can is riveted shut. I still have yet to use the iforce but will on a job coming up due to limited acsess space and they will be externally controlled.

I am in no way bashing CAST or the Kichler line. MDL is the one with the issue here. I heard even coppermoon has one on the way back to them for the same thing.

Total load was 6.75 amps. Unit would be fine for a day or so then trip the breaker at the panel requiring a service call... new breaker to be installed... then finally a surge supressor at my expense now we will wait a few days.

Seems MDL has a run of bad units where they got hot too but this seems to be isolated to kichler 600w.

pete scalia
01-05-2008, 09:24 AM
I have primarily used CAST in the past but have an issue with MDL now. It seems all manufactures who use mdl have been having an issue with the units popping breakers at the main panel.

In an EXCLUSIVE community we have done a few jobs and both had transformers that needed to be swapped out. Looks bad for us. 1 was a cast and 1 was a kichler and I still have 1 cast i am questioning on the popping of breakers.

The unique seems ok but I have issues with the control options here. You cant fit in some of the timers I like to use and the can is riveted shut. I still have yet to use the iforce but will on a job coming up due to limited acsess space and they will be externally controlled.

I am in no way bashing CAST or the Kichler line. MDL is the one with the issue here. I heard even coppermoon has one on the way back to them for the same thing.

Total load was 6.75 amps. Unit would be fine for a day or so then trip the breaker at the panel requiring a service call... new breaker to be installed... then finally a surge supressor at my expense now we will wait a few days.

Seems MDL has a run of bad units where they got hot too but this seems to be isolated to kichler 600w.

Use vista, no popped breakers

Pro-Scapes
01-05-2008, 09:39 AM
Use vista, no popped breakers

who makes vista ?? is it still justin ?

I think I have my trans issues solved with a new line but only time will tell that. The only experience I have with vista the taps were a complete joke. I did however like the 11v tap. Come to think of it a vista i removed from a job is powering my house lol. I got another one somewhere laying around I yanked.

pete scalia
01-05-2008, 09:44 AM
who makes vista ?? is it still justin ?

I think I have my trans issues solved with a new line but only time will tell that. The only experience I have with vista the taps were a complete joke. I did however like the 11v tap. Come to think of it a vista i removed from a job is powering my house lol. I got another one somewhere laying around I yanked.

I think Vista makes Vista. Or is it Microsoft who makes Vista. Check that..that's a different Vista.

Pro-Scapes
01-05-2008, 10:13 AM
if its powered by microsoft you cant call it reliable now can ya :laugh:

1. It would be bound to POP up something
2. You would face constant errors
3. you would have to come out nightly to reboot the system.
4 you would need to charge clients when they called you with an issue.
5 you would have to replace the entire system every few years just to maintain a functionable system.
6. you would have to update the system weekly if you wanted it to remain safe.

Pete stay away from thoes microsoft transformers lol.

Az Gardener
01-05-2008, 10:20 AM
Just a bit of background since I am not too active in this forum and you guys seem to be a tight bunch. I only do landscape maintenance at this stage of my career, although I was installing low voltage in the early 80's through about 2000. Here a most L/S contractors do it all grading, irrigation, masonry, low voltage, planting, you name it. We check and replace light bulbs as a regular part of our service and we do the typical repairs as they occur, reposition lights in trees as needed etc..

When we start a new client I do a Landscape evaluation in the lighting portion of the evaluation I check the voltage at the taps - voltage at the first and last light on the runs -the connection type- and the overall appearance of the install. I fill the owner in on the types of bulbs the avg. lamp life and so on.

Here is what I find;
Vista's rarely put out the correct voltage at the taps not a biggie but usually off by .3 and its usually on the high side 11 puts out 11.3 The guys that install them seem to be hacks I have never seen a good vista system installed. Voltage 5.5 at the last light are you kidding me? Still using fixtures with 4414's c'mon.

Nightscaping seems to be OK except the guys that install Nightscaoing never put the wires through a pipe for that completed professional look. I also hate their 24 hr timers. I hope they have improved that on the new models. having to take a transformer off the wall or disassemble it in the field is a pain and they seem to go bad frequently or at least they become much more difficult to spin while checking.

Unique's I rarely have a problem with and the one time I did they were great about the warranty.

F/X has a large presence here and is the transformer of choice for the professionals They also have two roaming tech and will do service call work for free but they are usually not prompt enough for us. 80% of what I see is F/X so I imagine I will notice more of their problems. The only one that is reoccurring is that in year's 4-6 I have had cycling problems. They never blink about taking care of the warranty. I just wish they used normal names for their lights.

Have never seen a Cast or Kitchler transformer here installed, just the displays in the irrigation houses.

pete scalia
01-05-2008, 10:32 AM
if its powered by microsoft you cant call it reliable now can ya :laugh:

1. It would be bound to POP up something
2. You would face constant errors
3. you would have to come out nightly to reboot the system.
4 you would need to charge clients when they called you with an issue.
5 you would have to replace the entire system every few years just to maintain a functionable system.
6. you would have to update the system weekly if you wanted it to remain safe.

Pete stay away from thoes microsoft transformers lol.

And I thought I was the only one having problems with my PC. What a relief. Does Vista lighting make computer operating systems? It would only be fair since Microsoft makes vista.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-05-2008, 10:58 AM
Here is what I find;

Nightscaping seems to be OK except the guys that install Nightscaoing never put the wires through a pipe for that completed professional look. I also hate their 24 hr timers. I hope they have improved that on the new models. having to take a transformer off the wall or disassemble it in the field is a pain and they seem to go bad frequently or at least they become much more difficult to spin while checking.

If you go to Nightscaping's website and look at the Powercenter Control / Module page you will find the "Digital Power Switch" (T-SS-PS is the part number) It is a really excellent upgrade to the old analog and digital timers that were used in the past. It is a digital astronomical (solar tracking to be precise) timer / switch. You enter your lat & long and the day of the year as per the instructions and then set a simple program. The timer will then turn the lights on at dusk and off at your pre-set time, adjusting for dusk every day throughout the year.

Since the NS Powercenter's make use of a modular control system, you can easily unplug the unit, remove the old timer and install a new Digital Power Switch in a matter of minutes. It is a great upgrade to offer your clients.

Have a great day.

nate mullen
01-05-2008, 11:17 AM
Who likes what and why? I have used a few diff ones like unique, nightscaping h3o Etc. Unique I thinks is good for the higher taps but the lugs are so low and by the time you get 10- 15 wires comming in. things start getting very tight and there is not alot of room for all the wiring. Then you start running out of commons. What a pain trying to stick three wires into a single lug then you have more to intall around that mess. Nightscapings trans I feel are more user friendly. All the taps are on one side making it easy for the wires to be installed then you have the high, medium, and low settings. I usally crimp all my wires before they are installed into the taps after I have all the voltage and taps figured out. Also who does heat shrinking on wires. I do I know its very time consuming but I have worked on way to many systems that have water prof conections and the wires still get water in them. Just some things to kick around. Thanks guys. LIGHT ON!

I know your post was for current installers. But I wanted to ask a few ?. At 10 to 15 Homeruns per trans how many fixtures is that per run ? It seams like 1 or 2 sometime maybe 3. If this is so we make special transformers with more common lugs................... If you are putting that many wires under a big lug I can tell you this ....that lug was probably not designed for 300 strands of fine copper. ( Number 12 wire should have about 64 strands in it.) This is a another dirty little secret of this industry. Think about this............. why are there so many wire nuts out there. Small blue, Orange, yellow, red, big blue, and then gray. all you have to do is look at the listing (which will be on the box)of these wire nuts to know that there are certain combinations of numbers and sizes of wire that are safe to use. You can not have One big lug on a transformer to do it all. That is why we have 3 smaller lugs per tap or common. you can get 2 # 12 wires in it tap hole down to one number 18 wire gage. Thanks for letting me comment. To a brighter Future, Nate

pete scalia
01-05-2008, 11:47 AM
I know your post was for current installers. But I wanted to ask a few ?. At 10 to 15 Homeruns per trans how many fixtures is that per run ? It seams like 1 or 2 sometime maybe 3. If this is so we make special transformers with more common lugs................... If you are putting that many wires under a big lug I can tell you this ....that lug was probably not designed for 300 strands of fine copper. ( Number 12 wire should have about 64 strands in it.) This is a another dirty little secret of this industry. Think about this............. why are there so many wire nuts out there. Small blue, Orange, yellow, red, big blue, and then gray. all you have to do is look at the listing (which will be on the box)of these wire nuts to know that there are certain combinations of numbers and sizes of wire that are safe to use. You can not have One big lug on a transformer to do it all. That is why we have 3 smaller lugs per tap or common. you can get 2 # 12 wires in it tap hole down to one number 18 wire gage. Thanks for letting me comment. To a brighter Future, Nate

And what's the deal with these lugs anyway. You put any number of fine strands under them, crank them down and they are bound to damage them. I prefer the dangling wires with traditional wire nutz. At least I know where I stand and who I'm waking up in the morning next to.

Lite4
01-05-2008, 11:54 AM
Vista is still made by justin for the time being. I am told they are working on their own line though.
I Have used the Vista MT series the most. Solid transformer except for the tiny lugs. every time I have to put more than 3 - 12 guage wires in a tap I get really peaved at them, and swear I will never use them again. I do like the 11v tap though, I have had to use this from time to time when the voltage on the primary was a little high with a short run and low load.
I have a kichler as one of my demo kit transformers. I like the ginormous taps on it.
Next job I am going to try Uniques I-force tranny. I like the whole inverted aspect of the lugs on top. I wish it had a large 1-1/2" knockout and chase for wires though. I like one clean pipe holding all my wires instead of lots of small ones. Just me though.
I can't comment on the NS powercenter as I have never used this unit. I have heard good things about it, not only from some of you here, but from others also.

Lite4
01-05-2008, 12:06 PM
[QUOTE=Grounds Maint. Plus, Inc.;2085874] I usally crimp all my wires before they are installed into the taps after I have all the voltage and taps figured out. Also who does heat shrinking on wires. I do I know its very time consuming but I have worked on way to many systems that have water prof conections and the wires still get water in them. QUOTE]



I used to crimp my wires before inserting them into the tranny lugs, but this took up too much room in an already to small lug. I can understand Petes concern about damaging wires to a small degree, but in the grand scheme of that one run a few wires being damaged is not going to result in a significant voltage drop. That is why we have multiple voltage taps and multimeters to still get the voltage just right. I could run a 16 guage wire instead of a 12 guage and still get the same results at the bulb using a higher tap. I also crimp and heat shink all my connections, from the hub to the fixtures. I don't really concern myself with 'lots' of broken wires because it simply does not happen. I sleep better at night knowing my connections will never be invaded my water and the voltage at my lights is right on.

pete scalia
01-05-2008, 01:17 PM
[QUOTE=Grounds Maint. Plus, Inc.;2085874] I usally crimp all my wires before they are installed into the taps after I have all the voltage and taps figured out. Also who does heat shrinking on wires. I do I know its very time consuming but I have worked on way to many systems that have water prof conections and the wires still get water in them. QUOTE]



I used to crimp my wires before inserting them into the tranny lugs, but this took up too much room in an already to small lug. I can understand Petes concern about damaging wires to a small degree, but in the grand scheme of that one run a few wires being damaged is not going to result in a significant voltage drop. That is why we have multiple voltage taps and multimeters to still get the voltage just right. I could run a 16 guage wire instead of a 12 guage and still get the same results at the bulb using a higher tap. I also crimp and heat shink all my connections, from the hub to the fixtures. I don't really concern myself with 'lots' of broken wires because it simply does not happen. I sleep better at night knowing my connections will never be invaded my water and the voltage at my lights is right on.

yeah but do you at least know who your waking up next to in the morning?

Infinity Landscapes, Inc
01-06-2008, 12:38 PM
I am putting aboat 3 or 4 lights per zone plus a pig tail or two for futhure expantion. Wish I would have know aboat that trannny with extra commons. So what it sounds like is can have a single wire comming out of the common and then wire nut your commons to that? I've seen this done but yet to do it myself. does not look very clean and that is why they have the cover so no one can see the rats nest. I can only fit crimp sleves in a ns trannny. I can usally get 3 wires into 1 crimp for my taps. You heat shrink with a gun or torch? I herd if you get the wire to hot it will become poras and allow h2o to enter the wire. I'v had wire sent to the factory that I pulled from a install a year ago that had been all heat shrunk by me. They wanted to redo the who thing After I told them these bandaids suck. So water enter wire in differnet areas. My rep sent it off and did a bunch of anliseing and still do not know the results. He thought were they stamped it may have made it poras (sp), were they were heat shrunk, and trough the fixture, even at the hub. very weird. light on

Pro-Scapes
01-06-2008, 12:55 PM
i think i am missing where your heatshrinking. I use heatshrink when I add leads to fixtures... first NTE 3/16" double wall adhisvie lined over each lead then a 3/8" over both. Its really beefy when its done and I think cast does em pretty much the same way.

Tim I got an mt 600 here at my house. Its been good... its about 7 years old i think and pulled from a job I did and since I only have 3 runs all short out front its been fine. The taps do really irritate tho and I could naver imagine using this on an install with 10ga or similar.

Some of the nicest taps I have seen are the fx superblox altho there is like zero wiring room below em which defeats the pourpose.

Tim drop me an email please./

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-06-2008, 01:02 PM
Check out the insides of a Nightscaping Powercenter sometime..... Nice "Taps" on those babies, really nice "Taps" (Terminal Lugs)

eskerlite
01-06-2008, 01:22 PM
Microsoft PCs are like Air conditioning, when you open windows it doesnt work.
Sean C. :laugh:

Infinity Landscapes, Inc
01-06-2008, 03:15 PM
I use 2 ace connnectors at my hubs 1 hot 1 common. I can get 6+ wires in a two sided ace connector that are then tighten down after they are crimped with a allen srew. Try pulling that apart? then I heat shrink the whole thing and I also heat shrink my leads at each light. Any of you use ace connectors?

pete scalia
01-06-2008, 03:40 PM
Check out the insides of a Nightscaping Powercenter sometime..... Nice "Taps" on those babies, really nice "Taps" (Terminal Lugs)

Does that even compensate for all of the other deficiencies though?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-06-2008, 03:52 PM
I use 2 ace connnectors at my hubs 1 hot 1 common. I can get 6+ wires in a two sided ace connector that are then tighten down after they are crimped with a allen srew. Try pulling that apart? then I heat shrink the whole thing and I also heat shrink my leads at each light. Any of you use ace connectors?

You will find a number of the contributors here who use Ace Connectors. They are some of the most robust connectors on the market.

You are aware that there are 3 sizes of ACE Connector available right? The 1515-DB is the mini or 1/4 ACE. The 1525-DB is the standard ACE and the 1538-DB is the large or Double ACE.

If you are regularly doing large connections of 6+ wires I would recommend you use the 1538-DB units.

Have a great day.

steveparrott
01-07-2008, 08:46 AM
are they available yet, steve?

Yes, the soft-starts have been available for a few months now.

Pro-Scapes
01-07-2008, 08:59 AM
Steve has MDL corrected the breaker popping issue yet ? Does soft start eliminate this ?

pete scalia
01-20-2008, 02:41 PM
Steve has MDL corrected the breaker popping issue yet ? Does soft start eliminate this ?

Cast ripped the idea of soft start off from reading this forum. Check the archives it's been discussed long before cast's supposed innovation. Can't they come up with anything original? Most of their line consists of dupes of classic styles that have been in use long before cast came on the scene.

Lite4
01-20-2008, 05:47 PM
Cast ripped the idea of soft start off from reading this forum. Check the archives it's been discussed long before cast's supposed innovation. Can't they come up with anything original? Most of their line consists of dupes of classic styles that have been in use long before cast came on the scene.

Pete, Pete, Pete...If they did are you really all that surprised. We in the field are the real inovators. As the old saying goes, "Necessity is mother of all inventions". Why do you think these guys are always looking for suggestions or feedback on their products? It is because of you and me man, we are the ones who are out there everyday in the dust and mud putting these products through their paces in the real world, and finding out what works and what most decidedly does not. It is like the BASF commercials: We don't create the fixtures you use everyday, we just make them better.

pete scalia
01-20-2008, 06:15 PM
Pete, Pete, Pete...If they did are you really all that surprised. We in the field are the real inovators. As the old saying goes, "Necessity is mother of all inventions". Why do you think these guys are always looking for suggestions or feedback on their products? It is because of you and me man, we are the ones who are out there everyday in the dust and mud putting these products through their paces in the real world, and finding out what works and what most decidedly does not. It is like the BASF commercials: We don't create the fixtures you use everyday, we just make them better.

First they ripped of Unique now lawnsite. Whose next AOLP?

irrig8r
01-20-2008, 06:25 PM
Cast ripped the idea of soft start off from reading this forum. Check the archives it's been discussed long before cast's supposed innovation. Can't they come up with anything original? Most of their line consists of dupes of classic styles that have been in use long before cast came on the scene.

How is it ripping anybody off? Maybe they're just good listeners. If they sensed a demand and responded to it then they're just good capitalists. Can't fault them for that.

pete scalia
01-20-2008, 07:22 PM
How is it ripping anybody off? Maybe they're just good listeners. If they sensed a demand and responded to it then they're just good capitalists. Can't fault them for that.

Because they are cheaters like Bilichick's Patriots.

J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS!

Wait till next yr.

JoeyD
01-21-2008, 12:08 PM
Who likes what and why? I have used a few diff ones like unique, nightscaping h3o Etc. Unique I thinks is good for the higher taps but the lugs are so low and by the time you get 10- 15 wires comming in. things start getting very tight and there is not alot of room for all the wiring. Then you start running out of commons. What a pain trying to stick three wires into a single lug then you have more to intall around that mess. Nightscapings trans I feel are more user friendly. All the taps are on one side making it easy for the wires to be installed then you have the high, medium, and low settings. I usally crimp all my wires before they are installed into the taps after I have all the voltage and taps figured out. Also who does heat shrinking on wires. I do I know its very time consuming but I have worked on way to many systems that have water prof conections and the wires still get water in them. Just some things to kick around. Thanks guys. LIGHT ON!


Why would you have 15 wires coming into your TF?? That seems like a lot of home runs to me. If they were smaller fixture leads it wouldt be a problem unlesss they all needed to be on one of our taps.

Have you seen the I-Force yet??http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/I-Force.htm

JoeyD
01-21-2008, 12:09 PM
Use vista, no popped breakers


Yeah becuase they dont pop until you put 30 amps to them

JoeyD
01-21-2008, 12:37 PM
Why would you have 15 wires coming into your TF?? That seems like a lot of home runs to me. If they were smaller fixture leads it wouldt be a problem unlesss they all needed to be on one of our taps.

Have you seen the I-Force yet??http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/I-Force.htm

Never mind I read further and saw Nate already questioned this. Please disregard my question.

Infinity Landscapes, Inc
01-21-2008, 01:03 PM
On this system I have 10 home runs. I left pig tails at each hub so they can add on more lights as they can afford it. Lots of pre wire for extra lights. I like to have lots of flex-ability when installing systems. Hope this make sense.

JoeyD
01-21-2008, 01:09 PM
It totally makes sense. But it is rare to have that many home runs in one unit. I never would think you could put many wires into our lugs but my product engineer proved me wrong. We have strong reasoning behind our smaller holed lugs and the reason is becuase when you have one single large lug and you run one wire into it it leaves lots of potential problems in place for arching. Same reason they make multiple sized wire nuts.

Infinity Landscapes, Inc
01-21-2008, 02:05 PM
I rack my brain as I design and install system's and always looking into ways to save time. if I do need to add on to a system it's all right there in the hub ready to be installed. Means I don't have to run new wire and re dig if they later decide to add on which they always want to do. I do wounder if I am creating more headaches in the get go by doing this. I follow the 5 light rule per home run and have added 6 or 7 if the wattage is right. I have took a one day class by Jim Parrish. I think that I learned some things from him as well I gave him so good Ideas as well. I also took semester of night lighting a couple of years ago. That was the big eye opener. Now I'm totally hooked to night lighting and I am pushing it very hard this year. I like the lug system you guys offer but the lug needs to be a little bigger if you are adding all 12/2 wire. I think 16/2 will fit fine.. It is very quick. I'm not sold on the water proof part. I still use the heat shrink big ace connector with all of my connections. I also crimp to prevent any arching inside the hub. on certain transformers when I can I crimp my connections to prevent the same thing. If i now that run is set for life. I can usually get 3 12/2 wires in 1 crimp sleeve. I'm I looking at this whole thing to deep Or am I on the right page. Thanks for you input. very much appreciate. LIGHT ON

Pro-Scapes
01-21-2008, 02:15 PM
i never crimped my wires to install in a lug. I thought about tinning them but now i just twist em up tight and crank the lug down and then give it a little tug to make sure all is well. Never had a problem yet.

Joeys system is based on 12ga wire and his lugs refflect that. I do like the principal of multiports on the lugs like he has but would like to see them easier to work with. I think thats something they will be adressing soon and has been fully adressed in other transformers in the layout thread.

10 runs in a trans can be hectic. I think I have had that once. Now I preffer to install 2 smaller boxes instead one one larger one if i am expecting that many runs. Dont worry about the 5 light rule... worry about wattage. We have put up to 10 lights in a hub when they were all very close together and 10 and 20w lamps. Your biggest concearn then is finding a dbsr to hold all the wires. In our case we pulled it off... 7 is about the max i like to go in most cases.

Infinity Landscapes, Inc
01-21-2008, 02:25 PM
Thanks for the input. I keep getting preached on the 25' rule no matter if you run is 5,10 15 feet from the hub. I do like the lights that have the lead already on them. One less connection. I will consider when designing a system about using 2 trans instead of one. Do you leave pig tails for add ons also what hub system do you prefer.

JoeyD
01-21-2008, 02:56 PM
Well heres the deal wioth the 25ft leads. You can cut them down to size as long as you understand that whatever your voltage is at the Hub your lights will be closer. So I know through 25ft of 16/2 that i lose .5v so if my Hub is set at 12v my lights are burning at 11.5v. Now lets say one light is only 15ft away and the ground is frozen and it is on a clumn so I never will need to move it (remember having extra wire allows for future expansion and growth) I cut the wire down to 15ft. Well all my other lights will be at 11.5v still but this one will be like 11.8v, not a big deal. So yes you can cut the leads we just like the flexability you leave yourself when you bury the extra wire.

Now Billy is correct by saying our system is based around 12ga wire, but our TF's will accept and can accept 10 and 8ga cables. Not as many and it is tight but you can fit an 8ga wire no problem into one of our tap holes. The problem is with the insulation being so huge on 8ga direct burial cable that fitting multiple big 8ga wires gets tuff. Same for 10ga but you can absolutly use the bigger wire with our lugs. I encourage all of you to play with some wire and our taps to see for yourself, I did.

As for the lug/Hub connections we supply. I love them for my standard 12ga and 16ga wires but I would not want to use them for bigger wire all the time. I think the Buchanon Crimps are a good way to go!

Pro-Scapes
01-21-2008, 02:57 PM
dont really leave pig tails. I have left extra complete runs in hubs before and sealed em off from moisture. When I first started I left pig tails per casts recomendations. I quickly switched to checking voltage at the fixture under load and not the hub.

I try to leave plenty of slack in the hubs I can cut em apart and redo the splice if I need to add on. Then again I dont use ace connectors in hubs. I just got some for use in trees.

I used to go by the 25 ft rule too. As long as you know voltage drop and pay attention to what you do hacking 10ft of wire off a fixture to make it 15 ft wont put you out of spec on the voltage. Your only changing about .4-.5 v over that 25 ft run of 16ga anyways. I find it pretty irritating to bury 20 ft of wire when my fixture is only a few feet from the hub. Then again I like 3 ft or more of wire left in my hub boxes. Keep in mind I solder so any disconnection of the splice requires a CUT

Joeys head on about his hub lugs. I never cared for the ideal type of set screw things they use and the crimps are good. I still like to sizzle and solder tho. Just our prefference.

pete scalia
01-21-2008, 11:22 PM
Yeah becuase they dont pop until you put 30 amps to them

My response was regarding breakers tripping at the main panel not the secondary ones. Get with the program Joey. Otherwise I'll viciously attack you without provocation like I've done to Cast.:waving:

Lite4
01-22-2008, 01:40 AM
I have no problem not using a 25' lead when it is not necessary. Just know what your voltage is and keep it in it's proper range. That is one thing I really like about Gambinos tranny. The 1/2 volt taps will really let me match voltage between hubs well. I still and will always probably use the Nightscaping DB series heat shrink connectors for my hubs. I just like em.

JoeyD
01-22-2008, 10:22 AM
My response was regarding breakers tripping at the main panel not the secondary ones. Get with the program Joey. Otherwise I'll viciously attack you without provocation like I've done to Cast.:waving:

I fear no one! Not even you Pete.....LOL.......Ok maybe a little!?