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mnickison
01-05-2008, 05:03 PM
I was looking to buy a dump truck. The one I am looking at is a Ford 900, weighs approx 14000 lbs, single axle, with air brakes. Does any of this require me to have a CDL to drive it?

newtostone
01-05-2008, 05:13 PM
All that depends on the GVW of that truck, not the empty weight. In ny its 26001lbs before cdl. I am pretty sure that a F900 would need a cdl. At the very least you need an endorsement for the air brakes.

carcrz
01-05-2008, 05:14 PM
I think you'll probably need a CDL. You'll need a class E regardless if you plan on putting commercial signs on it.

mnickison
01-05-2008, 05:18 PM
I was told that it holds up to approx 25000 lbs. Is there anyway to get class E without taking the classes for it?

SiteSolutions
01-05-2008, 05:22 PM
Air brakes means CDL
Over 26,000 Gross Weight RATING means CDL

either or both means get a CDL, and of course you already have a health card, right?

carcrz
01-05-2008, 05:29 PM
Class E is basically a commercial vehicle license. The test is the same as the written test, but has a couple more questions on it. Study an hour before you take it & you should be good.

rider
01-05-2008, 05:31 PM
in ohio, air brakes are not cdl,

When do I need a Ohio CDL instead of my regular Ohio Drivers License?
A Ohio CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.

mnickison
01-05-2008, 05:35 PM
No, I have nothing towards getting a CDL. I'm pretty much looking for something that i can get in and drive. I would try for a low rating CDL if i didnt have to spend more than $400 to get it. As of right now, this is just a thought.

Fieldman12
01-05-2008, 05:36 PM
You only need Air brake endorsements only if the truck has them on it. I can tell you though you might as well go ahead and get them.

rider
01-05-2008, 05:51 PM
You only need Air brake endorsements only if the truck has them on it. I can tell you though you might as well go ahead and get them.

you only need a air brake endorsement if the gvw is over 26,000lbs
if your truck is registered under 26,000 and you are towing a trailer registered under 10,000 lbs you can get by with a regular drivers license

Fieldman12
01-05-2008, 07:05 PM
I understand the Class A and B CDL in OHIO as you are correct about the air brakes. I should have made it more plain. The thing I do here allot of different stories about is a pickup and trailer. Lets say a guy has a 1-ton pickup pulling a 12,000 lb. trailer. Technically he is under the 26,000 lb. weight limit. I dont see why he should need a CDL for that if his trailer is equipped with brakes.

rider
01-05-2008, 07:57 PM
yeah, that 12,000 pound limit is a problem especially with some pickups now rated to tow 14,000 to 16,000 pounds. but at least our state is pretty lenient compared to other states on cdl

dgZtrak737
01-05-2008, 08:19 PM
in ohio, air brakes are not cdl,

When do I need a Ohio CDL instead of my regular Ohio Drivers License?
A Ohio CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.

Same for alabama I work for the ALABAMA DEPT OF TRANSPORTATION. We have a post driver truck that has air breaks BUT you dont have to have CDL to drive it

As for the pickup and trailer thing
1 ton pickup GVWR 12000 lbs
Trailer Tandem 7500 lbs axles 15000 lbs
_________
Combination weight = 27000 lbs
Class A CDL
I DONT THINK ITS FAIR THOUGH.
There are people that have R.V.'s the size of charter busses and they dont have to have any special licenses to drive them. Some of those people have no business driving

fivestarlawnken
01-05-2008, 08:34 PM
get the proper endorsements!!! you might want to check into all of the tag fees. Ohio has really increased the fees.

GravelyNut
01-05-2008, 09:49 PM
in ohio, air brakes are not cdl,

When do I need a Ohio CDL instead of my regular Ohio Drivers License?
A Ohio CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.
You missed one very important item in your list.
Item 6 on the list from the State of Ohio's site is:
Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is designed to be operated and to travel on a public street or highway and is considered by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to be a commercial motor vehicle, including, but not limited to, a motorized crane, a vehicle whose function is to pump cement, a rig for drilling wells, and a portable crane.
If the Feds say it is a Commercial vehicle, Ohio says it is one too.

hosejockey2002
01-05-2008, 10:23 PM
I dont see why he should need a CDL for that if his trailer is equipped with brakes.

He wouldn't, unless his GCW was 26,000 lbs. or more.

carcrz
01-05-2008, 10:54 PM
DOT rules are Federal not state. It is the states that enforce the rules though.

GravelyNut
01-05-2008, 11:19 PM
Same for alabama I work for the ALABAMA DEPT OF TRANSPORTATION. We have a post driver truck that has air breaks BUT you dont have to have CDL to drive it

As for the pickup and trailer thing
1 ton pickup GVWR 12000 lbs
Trailer Tandem 7500 lbs axles 15000 lbs
_________
Combination weight = 27000 lbs
Class A CDL
I DONT THINK ITS FAIR THOUGH.
There are people that have R.V.'s the size of charter busses and they dont have to have any special licenses to drive them. Some of those people have no business driving

Federal law says: Classes of License:

The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

Alabama says: Alabama adopted the Federal Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986, and is part of a nationally uniform system of classifying, testing, and licensing commercial vehicle drivers.

If you drive a commercial vehicle that falls into one of the following classifications, you must secure an Alabama Commercial Driver License (CDL).

CLASS A - This classification applies only to "combination" vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) exceeding 26,000 pounds, provided the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed exceeds 10,000 pounds. The holder of a Class A license, which includes any appropriate endorsements, may operate all vehicles included in Class B, C, and D

CLASS B - This class includes single or combination vehicles where the GVWR of the single vehicle exceeds 26,000 pounds. The vehicle in tow must not exceed 10,000 pounds. Class B licensees, with appropriate endorsements, may drive all vehicles in Class C or D.

CLASS C - Vehicles designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, and vehicles placarded for hazardous materials, that do not meet the criteria for Class A or B above fall under this classification and may drive all vehicles in Class D.

Alabama might be breaking the Federal law on the truck you say doesn't need the CDL with Air Brakes. What do the Feds say the truck GVWR is. Air brakes or no air brakes doesn't make it a CMV or not one. Ohio says a well drilling truck is a CMV under the Fed's rules. Your truck does the same basic thing. Florida also would require you to have a CDL for that truck.

What 1 ton pickup has a rating for a GCWR of over 26001 lbs? None. The rig you describe is an illegal rig. Ford's F350 stop at 26000. 27000 is an overloaded rig. An F450 is not a 1 ton and that is the first one that goes over the 26001 rule. It is a CMV if used in Commercial service. Same thing applies to the 3500HD cab and chassis from Chevy. It is not a 1 ton. Nor is a 4500 pickup. Dodge 3500's are rated at a max of 23,000 GCWR with the Cummins. The pickup by Federal Law has to be rated at 26001 GCWR before it requires the CDL. My Chevy 3500 DRW has a towing rating of 15,000 lbs, but that is at the light weight of 6600 lbs. As the truck weights go up, the towing rating has to drop to be in the legal rating range. The same applies to the 1 ton in your example. Exceed the GCWR and it could be fine time even if you don't need to have a CDL.

rider
01-06-2008, 12:27 AM
You missed one very important item in your list.
Item 6 on the list from the State of Ohio's site is:
If the Feds say it is a Commercial vehicle, Ohio says it is one too.

What is a CDL?
A "CDL" is a Commercial Drivers License. It meets certain "standards" that are the same for every state. It differs from the Ohio "operator's" or "chauffeur's" licenses. It is required if you drive certain kinds of commercial vehicles.

What is the COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986 (CMVSA/86)?
It is a law passed by the United States Congress which requires ALL the individual states to comply with certain standards in regards to the licensing of commercial motor vehicle (CMV) drivers. Ohio driver licensing standards comply with the law, requiring CMV drivers to obtain a Ohio Commercial Driver's License (CDL) when driving applicable vehicles. A CDL license can ONLY be issued in the driver's STATE OF LEGAL RESIDENCE, and if you have a CDL, you can have NO OTHER DRIVER'S LICENSE in ANY other state.

When do I need a Ohio CDL instead of my regular Ohio Drivers License?
A Ohio CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.

qps
01-06-2008, 01:18 AM
you only need a air brake endorsement if the gvw is over 26,000lbs
if your truck is registered under 26,000 and you are towing a trailer registered under 10,000 lbs you can get by with a regular drivers license


If you check I think you'll find that if your truck and trailer have a combined gvw over 26K you need cdl...so if your pulling a 14k trailer with say a F550...yep...cdl required...in Indy anyways...

GravelyNut
01-06-2008, 01:20 AM
What is a CDL?
A "CDL" is a Commercial Drivers License. It meets certain "standards" that are the same for every state. It differs from the Ohio "operator's" or "chauffeur's" licenses. It is required if you drive certain kinds of commercial vehicles.

What is the COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT OF 1986 (CMVSA/86)?
It is a law passed by the United States Congress which requires ALL the individual states to comply with certain standards in regards to the licensing of commercial motor vehicle (CMV) drivers. Ohio driver licensing standards comply with the law, requiring CMV drivers to obtain a Ohio Commercial Driver's License (CDL) when driving applicable vehicles. A CDL license can ONLY be issued in the driver's STATE OF LEGAL RESIDENCE, and if you have a CDL, you can have NO OTHER DRIVER'S LICENSE in ANY other state.

When do I need a Ohio CDL instead of my regular Ohio Drivers License?
A Ohio CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.

Per the website ( http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/driver_license/cdl.htm ) the whole list reads:Who Needs a CDL? – Ohio Revised Code, Section 4506.01 (D)

You need a CDL if you operate any of the following vehicles:

1.

Any combination of vehicles with a combined gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand one pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of ten thousand pounds;
2.

Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of twenty-six thousand one pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating that is not in excess of ten thousand pounds;
3.

Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is not a class A or class B vehicle, but that either is designed to transport sixteen or more passengers including the driver;
4.

Any school bus with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than twenty-six thousand one pounds that is designed to transport fewer than sixteen passengers including the driver;
5.

Is transporting hazardous materials for which placarding is required under subpart F of 49 C.F.R. part 172;
6.

Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is designed to be operated and to travel on a public street or highway and is considered by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to be a commercial motor vehicle, including, but not limited to, a motorized crane, a vehicle whose function is to pump cement, a rig for drilling wells, and a portable crane.


Note that you can have a crane that is under the weight requirements but the Feds have ruled a CMV. Thus the reason for 6.

Exceptions:CDL Exemptions

The law exempts these categories from the CDL:

1.

A "Farm Truck"; ("Farm Truck" means a truck controlled and operated by a farmer for use in the transportation to or from a farm, for a distance of no more than one hundred fifty miles, of products of the farm, supplies for the farm, or other purposes connected with the operation of the farm. The truck must be operated in accordance with Ohio Revised Code, Section 4506.02(B2) and is not used in the operation of a motor transportation company or private motor carrier.)
2.

Fire equipment for a fire department, volunteer or non-volunteer fire company, fire district, or joint fire district;
3.

A public safety vehicle used to provide transportation or emergency medical service for ill or injured persons; ("Public safety vehicle" has the same meaning as in divisions (E)(1) and (3) of Ohio Revised Code, Section 4511.01 ORC)
4.

A recreational vehicle; ("Recreational vehicle" includes every vehicle that is defined as a recreational vehicle in Ohio Revised Code, Section 4501.01, and is used exclusively for purposes other than engaging in business or profit)
5.

A commercial motor vehicle within the boundaries of an eligible unit of local government*, if the person is employed by the eligible unit of local government and is operating the commercial motor vehicle for the purpose of removing snow or ice from a roadway by plowing, sanding, or salting, but only if either the employee who holds a commercial driver's license and ordinarily operates a commercial vehicle for these purposes is unable to operate the vehicle, or the employing eligible unit of local government determines that a snow or ice emergency exists that requires additional assistance.
6.

A vehicle operated for military purpose by any member or uniformed employee of the armed forces of the United States or their reserve components, including the Ohio National Guard. This exception does not apply to United States reserve technicians.
7.

A commercial motor vehicle that is operated for nonbusiness purposes. "Operated for nonbusiness purposes" means that the commercial motor vehicle is not used in commerce as "commerce" is defined in 48 C.F.R. 383.5 as amended, and is not regulated by the public utilities commission pursuant to Chapter 4919., 4821., or 4923.,of the Ohio Revised Code.
8.

A motor vehicle that is designed primarily for the transportation of goods and not persons while that motor vehicle is being used for the occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation and not in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise.

*Eligible unit of local government means a village, township, or county that has no population of not more than 3,000 persons according to the most recent federal census.

Gravel Rat
01-06-2008, 02:01 AM
A F-900 is a rare truck are you sure its not a L-900 which is a Louisville Cab with a gas engine.

Gravel Rat
01-06-2008, 02:02 AM
A F-900 is a rare truck are you sure its not a L-900 which is a Louisville Cab with a gas engine.

mnickison
01-06-2008, 07:48 AM
Here's the Ford 900.

GravelyNut
01-06-2008, 08:32 AM
Here's the Ford 900.

Looks like a CMV, but what is its GVWR or GCWR?

Ford isn't talking on their website as to GCWR anymore for the F-650/750 line and only give the ranges of the GVWR which are 20K to 33K. You have to talk to the reps to get that info.

SiteSolutions
01-06-2008, 09:34 AM
I might have been wrong on air brakes requiring a CDL. There is a seperate section of the CDL test for air brakes. Perhaps that is how I got confused? I would think any truck with air brakes would be a Class A or B truck (over 26,000#) but who knows?

mnickison
01-06-2008, 11:24 AM
I turned down the truck. I thank you all for your responses. It seems it is just more truck than I need at this moment.

Fieldman12
01-06-2008, 01:18 PM
I always understood the Ohio law to say as long as your under the 26,001 pound limit I can have a one ton truck and a 12,000 lb. trailer and be legal. I may need a DOT number but that would be all. I have had people tell me Im wrong though that I would require one ( CDL). I dont see how I would need one though. A one ton truck should be able to tow a 12,000 lb. trailer no problem.

Gravel Rat
01-06-2008, 01:44 PM
That old truck is too old its a pre 1980 L-900 the old industrial Ford gas engines are hard to find parts for. Then the other problem the old Louisville Fords that year have bad cab rust. You made the right choice not buying that truck it would need lots of work.

mnickison
01-06-2008, 02:42 PM
That info is good to know. I havent seen the truck in person and was having doubts about my decisioin. That sets my mind at ease.