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DFLS
01-07-2008, 10:22 PM
So I want to stay under the federal 18001 gvwr. Bought a new trailer. What it all boils down to is that even though my trailer title and the manufacturer sticker on the side of the trailer says 9150 gvwr the axles are still 5000 each which means the dot can use 10000 gvwr for the trailer. That with the 8800 gvwr of the truck puts me over the 18001 gvwr federal guidelines and makes me subject to trucker rules including logbooks, CDL, placards, name on truck, etc,etc:dizzy:. It all depends on the inspector and what he thinks on that givin day of inspection. I would love to have the tandem 5000 lb axles for durability and a safer longer lasting trailer :weightlifter: but the regulation hassles are making me buy and use a more inferior setup. Go figure:hammerhead: If only there was a way to solidify the gvwr of the trailer at 9150 as the title states... Any ideas??

d&rlawncare
01-07-2008, 10:38 PM
Were does it say the axles are 5000 each? on the axles?

DFLS
01-07-2008, 10:46 PM
Were does it say the axles are 5000 each? on the axles?

There is a # stamped on the tube that can be cross referenced to the rating.

DFLS
01-07-2008, 10:48 PM
There is a # stamped on the tube that can be cross referenced to the rating.

Also on the sticker on the side of the trailer right next to the 9150GVWR it says axle rating: 5000lbs.

PerfectEarth
01-07-2008, 10:53 PM
Huh?? You need to be at 26,001 for a CDL. You need not worry about a CDL. ...and you need a name on your truck with a DOT number (which is free) anyway. If you've been doing this for 15 years, it's time you become compliant.

I don't think you'll need a Log Book if you're keeping trips within a 100 mile radius (e.g. only doing local business)... but someone correct me if I'm wrong. That's what KY DOT told me.

*edit- you're in CT, I think you're OK with no DOT number if intrastate. My fault.

d&rlawncare
01-07-2008, 11:02 PM
I just posted this on your other thread. But GVWR is what we have to go by. Just cause your axles are 5000 each thats the weight THEY can haul. That does not mean thats what the rest of the trailer was designed to haul. GVWR 9150, this means take 9150 minus the trailer weight, lets say 3000, gives you 6150. This trailer was made/designed to haul that 6150. Its not just the axles. Its the leaf springs/frame/brakes. The TOTAL design of the trailer.

CDL is a power unit ABOVE 26,001 GVWR has nothing to do with the combo. YOU DONT NEED!!!

logbooks are if you are more than 110 miles (as the crow flies) from point a to b. Not actual miles driven. I HOPE YOU DONT DRIVE THAT FAR FROM HOME!!!!!

placards are for haz mats in excess of 1000 gallons. would have to look up for sure becuase I have not been haz mat certified in 2 years now. thank god. I DOUBT YOU CARRY ANYTHING THAT REQUIRES PLACARDS

what it boils down to is- WHAT IS THE GVWR ON THE VIN PLATE OF YOUR TRAILER?

your average mower guy/girl will have a GCWR (gross combo weight rating) in excess of 10,000 pounds. So you will need:

med card
carrier id
fire ext and warn device
driver license
insurance
equipment secured
seatbelt
dot number

d&rlawncare
01-07-2008, 11:03 PM
Huh?? You need to be at 26,001 for a CDL. You need not worry about a CDL. ...and you need a name on your truck with a DOT number (which is free) anyway. If you've been doing this for 15 years, it's time you become compliant.

I don't think you'll need a Log Book if you're keeping trips within a 100 mile radius (e.g. only doing local business)... but someone correct me if I'm wrong. That's what KY DOT told me.

*edit- you're in CT, I think you're OK with no DOT number if intrastate. My fault.

your right

supercuts
01-08-2008, 09:29 AM
yeah, all that matters is what you register it as, which is why they ask you what you want the gvw to be. your allowed UP TO its max. you dont need to register it up to the max. i was so happy my F550 is a 17.5K gvw, i dont want to bother with all that dot crap. by law in CT you are supposed to have still have flares, fuse, first aid, and DOT medical card from a phyiscian to drive any veh for commerical use.

topsites
01-08-2008, 11:07 AM
You need to check with your particular state, VA is 26,000+ for CDL but aren't some states still 10,000+?

As for the trailer, if it's rated 9150 then I don't care if the axles will hold 500,000 pounds, you can put class E load rated tires on it doesn't mean it will hold more, that's just one part of the trailer, the vehicle has a sticker because it means the trailer as a whole unit has a maximum GVWR of 9150, tell the inspector that and send'm packing they want to raise a fuss you can NOT drop 10k on a 9.15k trailer no matter what one part or the other might hold.

Either way, you need to check on your particular state's CDL regulations just to be sure on this weight limit thing.

d&rlawncare
01-08-2008, 11:17 AM
You need to check with your particular state, VA is 26,000+ for CDL but aren't some states still 10,000+?

As for the trailer, if it's rated 9150 then I don't care if the axles will hold 500,000 pounds, you can put class E load rated tires on it doesn't mean it will hold more, that's just one part of the trailer, the vehicle has a sticker because it means the trailer as a whole unit has a maximum GVWR of 9150, tell the inspector that and send'm packing they want to raise a fuss you can NOT drop 10k on a 9.15k trailer no matter what one part or the other might hold.

Either way, you need to check on your particular state's CDL regulations just to be sure on this weight limit thing.

Yes he should check with his state but the CDL/logbook/med cards etc are federal law that ALL states should have adopted. This is now the trucking industry standard and makes INTERstate trucking easier to comply with.

DFLS
01-08-2008, 01:01 PM
Huh?? You need to be at 26,001 for a CDL. You need not worry about a CDL. ...and you need a name on your truck with a DOT number (which is free) anyway. If you've been doing this for 15 years, it's time you become compliant.

I don't think you'll need a Log Book if you're keeping trips within a 100 mile radius (e.g. only doing local business)... but someone correct me if I'm wrong. That's what KY DOT told me.

*edit- you're in CT, I think you're OK with no DOT number if intrastate. My fault.



26,001 for CT correct.

18,001 for FED.

CT DOT inspectors are now using FED guidelines because of 2 recent truck crashes one of which involved 20 vehicles and killed 4 people.

So in CT if you are over 18,001 then all FED rules apply including yearly inspections that cost over $300.00 and take hours to do.

d&rlawncare
01-09-2008, 08:42 PM
26,001 for CT correct.

18,001 for FED.

CT DOT inspectors are now using FED guidelines because of 2 recent truck crashes one of which involved 20 vehicles and killed 4 people.

So in CT if you are over 18,001 then all FED rules apply including yearly inspections that cost over $300.00 and take hours to do.

trust me...get to know your dot. As long as you are asking questions and trying to get legal they will work with you. ASK them to inspect your vehicles. Have everything you need, fire ext, warn triangles, med card, working lights, carrier id etc and have them do a level 1 inspection. KEEP A COPY of this inspection with your reg and ins. THIS IS NOW YOUR ANNUAL INSP. The DOT get an inspection out of it and you get your inspection FREE. And if your real nice you will make time to either type up a letter to a supervisor and let them know that Offficer Joe went above and beyond to help answer all your questions or maybe take them to lunch. Most will not take you up on the second one. But I would.:waving:

DFLS
01-09-2008, 09:46 PM
trust me...get to know your dot. As long as you are asking questions and trying to get legal they will work with you. ASK them to inspect your vehicles. Have everything you need, fire ext, warn triangles, med card, working lights, carrier id etc and have them do a level 1 inspection. KEEP A COPY of this inspection with your reg and ins. THIS IS NOW YOUR ANNUAL INSP. The DOT get an inspection out of it and you get your inspection FREE. And if your real nice you will make time to either type up a letter to a supervisor and let them know that Offficer Joe went above and beyond to help answer all your questions or maybe take them to lunch. Most will not take you up on the second one. But I would.:waving:


I like this idea especially the inspection part. Thanks.

GravelyNut
01-09-2008, 09:49 PM
26,001 for CT correct.

18,001 for FED.

CT DOT inspectors are now using FED guidelines because of 2 recent truck crashes one of which involved 20 vehicles and killed 4 people.

So in CT if you are over 18,001 then all FED rules apply including yearly inspections that cost over $300.00 and take hours to do.Where are you getting a FED 18001 kickin limit?
Per the FMCSA www.fmcsa.dot.gov. Subpart F — Vehicle Groups and Endorsements

§383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups.

(a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

(a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A) — Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

(a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B) — Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

(a)(3) Small Vehicle (Group C) — Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).

And one chemical that requires a Hazmat endorsement/placarding is an empty tank truck with any Chlorine in it. That one is a sticky subject with the DOT folks around here. 1 qt, better have it or else.

GravelyNut
01-09-2008, 10:04 PM
trust me...get to know your dot. As long as you are asking questions and trying to get legal they will work with you. ASK them to inspect your vehicles. Have everything you need, fire ext, warn triangles, med card, working lights, carrier id etc and have them do a level 1 inspection. KEEP A COPY of this inspection with your reg and ins. THIS IS NOW YOUR ANNUAL INSP. The DOT get an inspection out of it and you get your inspection FREE. And if your real nice you will make time to either type up a letter to a supervisor and let them know that Offficer Joe went above and beyond to help answer all your questions or maybe take them to lunch. Most will not take you up on the second one. But I would.:waving:Yep!!! Can save $$$$$$$ just by talking to them. Same thing holds true at weigh stations even if you are non-comm and pulling a loaded trailer behind your pickup. Some states will pull you over for not stopping even if you aren't Comm. No ticket or anything but a pain because you have to wait while they do a check on the tag, license, etc...

And watch out going thru VA if you have a radar detector. A friend of mine got pulled last week because the trooper thought he had one. It was a GPS unit though. It has even been documented that they took a guys cardboard box that looked like one. They claim that a Comm vehicle with one in it is evidence of speeding, so guess what else you get a ticket for after having them take the detector..

d&rlawncare
01-09-2008, 10:58 PM
Yep!!! Can save $$$$$$$ just by talking to them. Same thing holds true at weigh stations even if you are non-comm and pulling a loaded trailer behind your pickup. Some states will pull you over for not stopping even if you aren't Comm. No ticket or anything but a pain because you have to wait while they do a check on the tag, license, etc...

And watch out going thru VA if you have a radar detector. A friend of mine got pulled last week because the trooper thought he had one. It was a GPS unit though. It has even been documented that they took a guys cardboard box that looked like one. They claim that a Comm vehicle with one in it is evidence of speeding, so guess what else you get a ticket for after having them take the detector..

That same section you quoted out of the Fed Regs for commercial vehicle applies to radar Detectors. If you meet the Commercial vehicle defination then per Fed Regs it is a violation to even have a radar detector in the vehicle, working or not.

And yes you are correct it 10,001 and above.

d&rlawncare
01-09-2008, 11:02 PM
I like this idea especially the inspection part. Thanks.

Your welcome. I have people ask me to inspect thier vehicles all the time. The only thing I tell them is that whatever violations I find, I HAVE to list. That doesnt mean you cant call me in a week for another inspection.

GravelyNut
01-09-2008, 11:42 PM
Your welcome. I have people ask me to inspect thier vehicles all the time. The only thing I tell them is that whatever violations I find, I HAVE to list. That doesnt mean you cant call me in a week for another inspection.
Far better attitude than some down here have. Thanks!!!

And I am glad that the states finally all got on the same standards for truck widths. Mine wasn't legal on any number of state roads in just about all the states I drive in. 8'6" width on a 10' lane road or less can be fun when you have a trooper following you.

DFLS
01-10-2008, 10:27 AM
[QUOTE=GravelyNut;2092801]Far better attitude than some down here have. Thanks!!!

When I move I will move to Michigan.

Grassbuster
01-10-2008, 01:07 PM
Your welcome. I have people ask me to inspect thier vehicles all the time. The only thing I tell them is that whatever violations I find, I HAVE to list. That doesnt mean you cant call me in a week for another inspection. So this was covered in another thread before - I have a question for you - I have 2 seperate tickets both stating that because I am over 18,001 I need CDL,med card,flares,fire ext. name, dot # fed insp. @ $210.00 for truck & $110.00 for trailer, Log book, all load secured, and of coarse all lights working and if by chance they are not working you have to fix it within 30 minutes or they tow. I was stopped in sept. by CT. Commercial DOT and was taken out of service for 10 hours for not having a log book and it was 12:00 noon. I had to call my wife who has never driven my truck (with or without a trailer) and have her drive on a 4 lane state road home. I then purchased a new trailer mfg. gvwr 7000 - had it registered to 6600 to fall under 18,001. I thought I was good and thought "can't wait to get stopped again". Well 2 weeks later I got stopped by a CT state trooper. He looked at my regestration for truck and trailer and found me under until he wanted to double check the trailer... He called Anderson & gave them the model # and asked what the mfg. gvwr of this trailer is.... they said 7000...busted again. I was told it is a federal offense to downsize a trailer to fall under certain weight limits and he would fine me accordingly. Again at 7:10am I was taken out of service for not having a log book. He told me I could drive home & he better not see me until I have all requirements for federal motor carriers rules. I hired a lawyer to help fight this and find exactly what the LAWS are. $3800.00 later I was told that the rules & inspections vary from officer to officer and they will/can do whatever it takes to find any/all violations. Having said all this for me it is easier to get a 14' trailer than to meet this guys everyother week. Funny thing is being under 18,001 I don't even HAVE to secure my load anymore and if a light does not work, they can not make me fix it on the spot. So getting to know your inspector is impossible around here since any trooper can pull you over. Ct. has been under the gun since the bad accidents. Having learned this story what advice do you have for us now??

GravelyNut
01-10-2008, 01:34 PM
So this was covered in another thread before - I have a question for you - I have 2 seperate tickets both stating that because I am over 18,001 I need CDL,med card,flares,fire ext. name, dot # fed insp. @ $210.00 for truck & $110.00 for trailer, Log book, all load secured, and of coarse all lights working and if by chance they are not working you have to fix it within 30 minutes or they tow. I was stopped in sept. by CT. Commercial DOT and was taken out of service for 10 hours for not having a log book and it was 12:00 noon. I had to call my wife who has never driven my truck (with or without a trailer) and have her drive on a 4 lane state road home. I then purchased a new trailer mfg. gvwr 7000 - had it registered to 6600 to fall under 18,001. I thought I was good and thought "can't wait to get stopped again". Well 2 weeks later I got stopped by a CT state trooper. He looked at my regestration for truck and trailer and found me under until he wanted to double check the trailer... He called Anderson & gave them the model # and asked what the mfg. gvwr of this trailer is.... they said 7000...busted again. I was told it is a federal offense to downsize a trailer to fall under certain weight limits and he would fine me accordingly. Again at 7:10am I was taken out of service for not having a log book. He told me I could drive home & he better not see me until I have all requirements for federal motor carriers rules. I hired a lawyer to help fight this and find exactly what the LAWS are. $3800.00 later I was told that the rules & inspections vary from officer to officer and they will/can do whatever it takes to find any/all violations. Having said all this for me it is easier to get a 14' trailer than to meet this guys everyother week. Funny thing is being under 18,001 I don't even HAVE to secure my load anymore and if a light does not work, they can not make me fix it on the spot. So getting to know your inspector is impossible around here since any trooper can pull you over. Ct. has been under the gun since the bad accidents. Having learned this story what advice do you have for us now??
If the DOT Troopers in CT are making up the rules as they go, sounds like a class action lawsuit agianst them might be in order. And I bet your lawyer might be thinking the same thing. Or just going to court in your case and showing the judge what the state says on their own site.
And I keep seeing the 18,001 thing being posted but where are CT troopers getting that? Per your own states website, it follows the Fed rules of 26,001 or more.
Definition of a Commercial Motor Vehicle

A commercial motor vehicle can be defined as:

* Vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds
* Vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver
* Vehicle designed to transport 11 or more passengers, including the driver, and used to transport students under the age twenty-one years of age to and from school
* Any vehicle transporting hazardous materials which is required to be placarded. That came from http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=805&q=244794. Sounds like Ct is trying to rake in some money.

GravelyNut
01-10-2008, 01:51 PM
And I found it finally. But it only applies to intrastate CT companies. Not Fed rules. U.S. DOT Number Assignment
for Intrastate Carriers

Connecticut State Law requires that motor carriers operating commercial vehicles intrastate (within Connecticut boundaries) must obtain and display a U.S. DOT CT only number.
You are a commercial motor carrier if any of your motor vehicles are:

1. Engaged in intrastate commerce and have a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 18,001 pounds or more; or
2. Used in the transportation of hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placarding; or
3. Designed to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver. From http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=798&Q=244920&dmvPNavCtr=|#30295

Brad Ent
01-10-2008, 01:58 PM
See link below:
CT Commercial Carrier Handbook "Do the Regulations apply to me"?
The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations apply to the following:
1) Vehicles that have a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 or more pounds; (Note: for carriers that operate solely intrastate commerce, the regulations apply at 18,001 pounds or more) or
2) A vehicle designated to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

3) A vehicle used in the transportation of hazardous materials in any quantity requiring placarding.

I don't like it, but there it is:http://www.ct.gov/dmv/LIB/dmv/20/29/mch.pdf

Brad Ent
01-10-2008, 02:13 PM
A few pages in it indicates:
(paraphased) CT has adopted CDL FMVSS requirements for all intrastate vehicles which exceed 18,001 lbs and interstate vehicles that exceed 10,001lbs.
These requirements include: Log book, drug tests, Proof of Annual inspection, minimum levels of financial responsibility, etc.
They do give you a break and allow 18 year olds to operate the vehicles if they are under 26,001 lbs

In addition, GVW and GVCW is based values placed by MFG not registered wts.

Life is great!!!

GravelyNut
01-10-2008, 02:27 PM
A few pages in it indicates:
(paraphased) CT has adopted CDL FMVSS requirements for all intrastate vehicles which exceed 18,001 lbs and interstate vehicles that exceed 10,001lbs.
These requirements include: Log book, drug tests, Proof of Annual inspection, minimum levels of financial responsibility, etc.
They do give you a break and allow 18 year olds to operate the vehicles if they are under 26,001 lbs

In addition, GVW and GVCW is based values placed by MFG not registered wts.

Life is great!!!

Yeah. It looks like Ct is under the gun. It's funny that one page will define a CMV as one weiging 26001 while another nails it as 10,001 or 18,001 if intrastate. This is what the CDL/CMV rules were supposed to get rid of. Uniform laws in all states was the goal.:rolleyes:

Grassbuster
01-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Thanks for all the input and links guys. It seems any trooper and/or dot inspector can make up the rules as they go. it sucks in CT;;;;;;;;;;;;;; now.

Brad Ent
01-10-2008, 03:04 PM
My 3/4 Ton Truck - Factory rated at GVW 9,200 LBS towing a trailer factory rated at GVW 10,000 lbs is subject to CDL requirements in the Constitution State.
Upon further review, Interstate vehicles with factory rating GVW or GVCW 10,001lbs or greater is considered CDL, min age - 21.

Look out all you boat haulers!!

GravelyNut
01-10-2008, 05:15 PM
My 3/4 Ton Truck - Factory rated at GVW 9,200 LBS towing a trailer factory rated at GVW 10,000 lbs is subject to CDL requirements in the Constitution State.
Upon further review, Interstate vehicles with factory rating GVW or GVCW 10,001lbs or greater is considered CDL, min age - 21.

Look out all you boat haulers!!
Well atleast I've got the license and triangles part beat. And the truck is covered under my auto ins, so that one goes too. Sad part is, even enpty I'm over the 10001 GVWR. And over the 18001 with the trailer. Guess I better get the log book, ext., and med card next. Never know which state is going to be money hungry the next trip north.

Sure was nice of them to let people know when they dropped the 26,001 rule. :hammerhead:

DFLS
01-10-2008, 11:59 PM
Look out all you boat haulers!![/QUOTE]

It says recreational vehicles are exempt. Does that mean motorhomes, race trailers (I have seen some loooooong ones), boats?

Some of those race trailers are pretty heavy why should they be exempt?

And how about those painters with 10 ladders on the rack tied with a couple bungies??

Or the guy holding the mattress with one hand and a string?:weightlifter:

The list goes on...

GravelyNut
01-11-2008, 07:36 AM
Look out all you boat haulers!!

It says recreational vehicles are exempt. Does that mean motorhomes, race trailers (I have seen some loooooong ones), boats?

Some of those race trailers are pretty heavy why should they be exempt?

And how about those painters with 10 ladders on the rack tied with a couple bungies??

Or the guy holding the mattress with one hand and a string?:weightlifter:

The list goes on...
And just think, if a guy who has one of the Freightliner RV tow rigs goes to get fuel without the trailer in tow, they'd need the CDL too. :laugh: Going to be some serious wakeup calls to Congress when a politician gets pulled over.

Ive heard that some of Florida's troopers have been stopping tourist in the Keys and warning them to get a CDL. Florida might be the next one doing it. :(

Brad Ent
01-11-2008, 08:30 AM
CT Motor Vehicle Laws Title 14-
"Recreational vehicle" includes the camper, camp trailer and motorhome classes...

Boats, race cars, horse trailers (farm reg exempt), concession trailers, snow mobile trailers etc. do not make the list of recreational vehicles.

So if you stuff all your equipment in a "toy hauler" CDL regulations do not apply.

Grassbuster
01-11-2008, 10:44 AM
One way it was explained to me was recreation is considered as a none profit sport. If you are hauling something/anything for profit (racecar) you are subject. Now I know that is a fine line because livestock trailers are exempt - however you can race a horse and make money..................

GravelyNut
01-11-2008, 01:31 PM
CT Motor Vehicle Laws Title 14-
"Recreational vehicle" includes the camper, camp trailer and motorhome classes...

Boats, race cars, horse trailers (farm reg exempt), concession trailers, snow mobile trailers etc. do not make the list of recreational vehicles.

So if you stuff all your equipment in a "toy hauler" CDL regulations do not apply.
Boaters beware!!!!!!!!

GravelyNut
01-11-2008, 01:37 PM
One way it was explained to me was recreation is considered as a none profit sport. If you are hauling something/anything for profit (racecar) you are subject. Now I know that is a fine line because livestock trailers are exempt - however you can race a horse and make money..................

Farm equipment is exempt ( or different rules ) in most states. Florida's rule is 100 miles from home and only in state though. Anything else, you lose.