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meets1
01-15-2008, 04:45 PM
I think I have that right. $18 a share for around $488 million. Everyone seems to keep consolidating with each other. Wonder if that is always better?

ksss
01-15-2008, 04:51 PM
That should provide for some interesting discussions.:dizzy:

Tigerotor77W
01-15-2008, 05:04 PM
Indeed... oh my goodness. http://www.asvi.com/press_release_detail.cfm?NewsID=154

Scag48
01-15-2008, 05:42 PM
That could be bad news bears for the Cat/ASV partnership. I'm not really sure if Terex would supply Cat with those carriages after the purchase.

ksss
01-15-2008, 06:16 PM
Any care to forecast what this means to CAT? Especially if Terex does not chose share their undercarriage? Providing that CAT could get around patents that protect the now Terex undercarriage, building their own suspended undercarriage may a problem. That says nothing of the fact that the costs of the undercarriage were shared between ASV and CAT machines spreading the R&D among more units. I see no reason for Terex to share as it would be the same as feeding the competition. They will likely paint the ASV white I guess and you will likely the two lines separate from using common components.


I guess that time will tell what this means to everyone, including me as a VTS owner.

J&B Ent.
01-15-2008, 06:48 PM
I was told by my local equipment dealer that Cat has been working on its own design any way.

mrusk
01-15-2008, 06:49 PM
Says cat still owns 23%

bobcat_ron
01-15-2008, 08:45 PM
Just goes to show the ASV system haters out there, Terex wants into the market bad!

Construct'O
01-15-2008, 10:36 PM
If Terex don't do any more changes to ASV then they did the,old Euclid TS14 scrapers other then paint them white,it will be a joke!!!!!! At least they did start using the cummins engine,but other then that they still look the same they did 30+ years ago.

Yeah i'm old!

Anyway the same goes for there dozers which was a take over of the Dresser( IH),no improvement there.They gave up on the old Terex(Euclid) dozers run it into the ground.

So i wouldn't be getting to excited about ASV advancing much now! I think the Cat owners will benefit more from this merger,not short term,but on down the road.

Good luck you ASV owners !

Digdeep
01-15-2008, 10:45 PM
This is a very interesting development. I read all of the press releases today, called my ASV dealer, and replayed the Terex webcast. This is how I understand it all based on my on the press releases, dealer feedback, and Terex's President in the webcast they held (if I have this correctly)- CAT has agreed to the deal and will no longer own 23% of ASV (Terex will end up owning 100%), CAT will continue to purchase ASV undercarriages, Terex will be looking into possibly expanding ASVs product range and look to possibly expand their product range with ASVs technology, and finally Terex expects ASV earnings to increase threefold over the next few years due to introduction into new markets (Europe) and new products. The deal is supposed to be finalized sometime in March if the shareholders approve it. All I can say is that it should be interesting. Terex is pretty darn big- almost $9 billion compared to ASV.

Fieldman12
01-15-2008, 10:47 PM
I kind of agree with others here. Terex seems to never go much farther than buying the company. They just dont seem to put any money in research and development of a better product.

Scag48
01-16-2008, 01:52 AM
What Terex does well is market in other countries, that's what they do well. Buying ASV is a SMART move on their part, they usually screw everything up.

KRtraxx
01-16-2008, 09:07 AM
Yes from what I have heard Digdeep has hit it on the head.Cat DID sell ALL their shares out.And they still are going to buy the UCs.ASV has a patent on a suspended UC so I dont think Cat or anyone else can develop their own.The VTS (owned by ASV) is the only thing with ANY type of suspension other than ASV themselves...Even if Terex makes few changes to the ASV I still think the marketing will improve BIG time..They are a huge company(around 10k employess I think) and took this over to makes some bucks... Time will tell how well they do..

ksss
01-16-2008, 01:38 PM
Terex builds very little themselves. I mean very little. What Terex has done is purchase smaller companies and brought them together under one label. They are a conglomeration of smaller assets that have been assembled to become Terex. Nothing wrong with that I guess. It is what it is. I wonder what CAT will have to pay for that undercarriage now and for how long they will pay it before moving in a different direction. Now would be a great time for CAT to go back to the drawing board and build a (real) undercarriage worthy of the name CAT.

bobcat_ron
01-16-2008, 01:41 PM
I wouldn't doubt they would have looked the UC's that Deere/Komatsu use, they look like the real Hy-Drives that Cat has on the bigger dozers, wouldn't that look nice in a marketing advetisement? A 297 head to head with a D9T?!?!

Scag48
01-16-2008, 02:39 PM
I would actually like to see Cat design their own undercarriage. I would like it to be unsuspended, even though I appreciate the suspension at some times. It's not necessary to most markets and seems to cause a blanket statement that negatively reflects it's advantages. It would be nice if Cat would give an option for steel tracks, that would be way nice.

bobcat_ron
01-16-2008, 04:00 PM
I'd like to see Cat go in this direction; keep the ASV as an option, that way you can have a skid steer with common (1)CTL U/C set up with optional dual or single suspension, (2) ASV U/C with dual or single (dependant on models) or (3) VTS and (4) the steel track as being the last option for people who think skid steers are f***ing tanks.

tnmtn
01-16-2008, 11:02 PM
i have been hearing good things about the terex tlb's. for the price it is hard to justify the $20,000 price increase to buy one from deere,case or cat. their pilot system is very smooth on the bh. i am looking to demo on a jobsite in the near future and see if it does as good as it seemed in the dealers yard. their sales group seems easy to work with and they are definitly trying to get bigger i that market.
also, it seems when the rumors were running wild about who was going to get bobcat terex came up more than once in discussions. maybe they had been looking for a ss company to buy for a while. i hope it brings good things to both companies.

tnmtn
01-16-2008, 11:06 PM
just checked, asv stock is trading at close to half what it was 2 years ago. also very high p/e ratio. i guess they were ripe for pickin.

qps
01-17-2008, 02:20 PM
Any care to forecast what this means to CAT? Especially if Terex does not chose share their undercarriage? Providing that CAT could get around patents that protect the now Terex undercarriage, building their own suspended undercarriage may a problem. That says nothing of the fact that the costs of the undercarriage were shared between ASV and CAT machines spreading the R&D among more units. I see no reason for Terex to share as it would be the same as feeding the competition. They will likely paint the ASV white I guess and you will likely the two lines separate from using common components.


I guess that time will tell what this means to everyone, including me as a VTS owner.


Story I get is that the new "C" series undercarriage is a cat design and is assembled at asv...no asv branding on any of there parts...so maybe the only problem is cat will have to add an assembly line for there undercarriages or farm it out to someone else to assemble...:laugh:

ksss
01-17-2008, 02:27 PM
Maybe in the C series CAT diverged from ASV for more reasons than we knew at the time. Did they see this coming?

qps
01-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Maybe in the C series CAT diverged from ASV for more reasons than we knew at the time. Did they see this coming?

Makes one think....doesn't it....

bobcat_ron
01-17-2008, 05:37 PM
They do have a similar lower cab look to them...........

Fieldman12
01-17-2008, 07:32 PM
You know the C series Cat has not been out that long. My bet is that since Cat owned shares of ASV they have known for a good while now that Terex was very interested in buying ASV. My bet is that Cat, ASV, and Terex already have this all figured out on if Cat will still have the ASV undercarriage and so on. Really I dont see this being any different than when Deere was making transmissions for the larger New Holland tractors. I mean look at it this way business is business. We all know that even if Cat no longer uses the ASV undercarriage that most likely Cat is always going to sell more CTL's than ASV will probably ever dream of. So why would ASV and Terex not want to sell undercarriages to Cat? It will be Cat's choice to drop the undercarriage. Personally I think Cat would be just fine using the Deere/ Komatsu undercarriage. I mean allot of the rough ride can be taken out with a good air ride seat. Granted your not going to take out all the rough ride but a good bit. I would venture to say that Cat will at least keep the ASV undercarriage as an option because as BobcatRon said it does have some advantages. I jsut could not see Cat and ASV spending all that time on the new C series just to shelf the idea tomorrow. What Im saying is this buy out has been talked about with all the high ups for months and months. The wheels often turn slow in big business. I am not trying to take anything away from ASV either as I think they make a very good product but lack the Cat known name.

bobcat_ron
01-17-2008, 07:57 PM
Cat will stick it out for some time more, if they knew there were big problems with these ASV U/C's, they would have killed the contract with ASV, they've been out as early as 2002, lots of time to get the R & D worked out.

Construct'O
01-17-2008, 08:11 PM
As far as the ASV patent things goes all Cat has to do is change a few minor things and tool up and make there our system.They have already make some changes with out ASV machine using them.

I'm with KSSS, when he made the statement ,why Cat couldn't have both systems.Like him i think it would be a smart move,and now would be good timing.

If Terex/ASV which ever it is going to be called, get snotty,then Cat is already on the road to building there own.

I still can't beleive they never did it to start with, and I still say Cat will come out more of the winner then ASV does with this deal.:dancing::usflag:

qps
01-17-2008, 09:24 PM
As far as the ASV patent things goes all Cat has to do is change a few minor things and tool up and make there our system.They have already make some changes with out ASV machine using them.

I'm with KSSS, when he made the statement ,why Cat couldn't have both systems.Like him i think it would be a smart move,and now would be good timing.

If Terex/ASV which ever it is going to be called, get snotty,then Cat is already on the road to building there own.

I still can't beleive they never did it to start with, and I still say Cat will come out more of the winner then ASV does with this deal.:dancing::usflag:


Cat does make there own system now...ASV just assemble's it..its a CAT design...now who actually manufacture's the parts is anybody's guess...probably ASV...but it is not an ASV product...so my CAT salesmen keeps telling me....:hammerhead:

Construct'O
01-17-2008, 10:46 PM
Cat does make there own system now...ASV just assemble's it..its a CAT design...now who actually manufacture's the parts is anybody's guess...probably ASV...but it is not an ASV product...so my CAT salesmen keeps telling me....:hammerhead:

Ask for that in writing from your saleman,next time you guys talk! Okay.:):usflag:

qps
01-17-2008, 11:08 PM
Ask for that in writing from your saleman,next time you guys talk! Okay.:):usflag:

Because????:confused:...I'll look again tomm. but my 297C has no ASV brand markings on it.....

Construct'O
01-17-2008, 11:15 PM
Because????:confused:...I'll look again tomm. but my 297C has no ASV brand markings on it.....

I was just kidding you!

It might not be a bad idea tho just in case you can't get parts from the new owner Terex.Then you will have it in write from your saleman that he told you Cat was making them, so where are my parts?:):usflag:

Digdeep
01-17-2008, 11:39 PM
My salesman told me that ASV will retain their brand and logo much like Genie did when Terex bought them in 2002. Genie has continued to grow and produce a good product, and my bet is that ASV will continue to do so as well. My bet is that CAT will also continue to buy the "ASV" undercarriage as far as CAT and ASV's relationship is concerned. qps..your salesman in Indy is not telling you the whole story (Tigerotor77W chimed in on this in a past thread as well) because ASV does build the undercarriage for CAT (I don't see any Takeuchi logos on the Mustang track machines but I know that Tak builds them), and CAT did/does not design it (they did help). You can look at the SR80 and the 297 as an example-the SR80 came out first. Other than a different drive configuration (drive motor/planetary on the CAT and drive motor on the ASV), the undercarriages are identical except for the bolts on the wheels. Same metal face seals, same track rails, same bogies, same tracks. I guess all any of us can do is speculate until we see any of these things start to happen with regard to the Terex/ASV merger and how CAt will react to it. One thing is for sure and that there has been quite a bit of change in the industry in the last year, and hopefull us as customers get better and better product because of it.

Ausman
01-18-2008, 02:02 AM
ASV signed a 3 year supply agreement with Cat last week, I think they both knew what was going on! As far as the undercarriage goes the undercarriage Cat will get is almost the same as the one that the PT ASV will get, except the silly planetary that was a failure in the 4810 has been added at Cats insistance to get the monster to turn. QPS if you need confirmation of the ASV content check the ASV part number cast into the moulding in the wheel, they just dropped the laser cut badge off, down here the Cat sales guys were cutting the badges off.

NHMan
01-20-2008, 03:16 AM
[QUOTE (I don't see any Takeuchi logos on the Mustang track machines but I know that Tak builds them)[/QUOTE]

Try looking at the serial number plate..its hidden in plain view.

qps
01-20-2008, 08:42 AM
ASV signed a 3 year supply agreement with Cat last week, I think they both knew what was going on! As far as the undercarriage goes the undercarriage Cat will get is almost the same as the one that the PT ASV will get, except the silly planetary that was a failure in the 4810 has been added at Cats insistance to get the monster to turn. QPS if you need confirmation of the ASV content check the ASV part number cast into the moulding in the wheel, they just dropped the laser cut badge off, down here the Cat sales guys were cutting the badges off.


I don't doubt that...CAT's claim is that it's there design, not ASV, built to there spec's...now that may mean squat.....hey in a hundred years who's going to care:drinkup:....besides that its 20 below here:dizzy:

qps
01-20-2008, 08:46 AM
My salesman told me that ASV will retain their brand and logo much like Genie did when Terex bought them in 2002. Genie has continued to grow and produce a good product, and my bet is that ASV will continue to do so as well. My bet is that CAT will also continue to buy the "ASV" undercarriage as far as CAT and ASV's relationship is concerned. qps..your salesman in Indy is not telling you the whole story (Tigerotor77W chimed in on this in a past thread as well) because ASV does build the undercarriage for CAT (I don't see any Takeuchi logos on the Mustang track machines but I know that Tak builds them), and CAT did/does not design it (they did help). You can look at the SR80 and the 297 as an example-the SR80 came out first. Other than a different drive configuration (drive motor/planetary on the CAT and drive motor on the ASV), the undercarriages are identical except for the bolts on the wheels. Same metal face seals, same track rails, same bogies, same tracks. I guess all any of us can do is speculate until we see any of these things start to happen with regard to the Terex/ASV merger and how CAt will react to it. One thing is for sure and that there has been quite a bit of change in the industry in the last year, and hopefull us as customers get better and better product because of it.

Sure...make a few slight changes and call it your design, I'll say it is a sales pitch to try to calm concerns about past failures...

Digdeep
01-20-2008, 11:44 AM
[QUOTE (I don't see any Takeuchi logos on the Mustang track machines but I know that Tak builds them)

Try looking at the serial number plate..its hidden in plain view.[/QUOTE]

Good point. The ASV serial number tag is still riveted to the CAT undercarriage rails too.

Digdeep
01-20-2008, 11:52 AM
I don't doubt that...CAT's claim is that it's there design, not ASV, built to there spec's...now that may mean squat.....hey in a hundred years who's going to care:drinkup:....besides that its 20 below here:dizzy:

yup. I can't believe this cold weather. I can't wait to watch the Packer/Giants game today! Those nuts will be out there without shirts at Lambeu with a game temp of -1 at kickoff!

qps
01-20-2008, 12:31 PM
yup. I can't believe this cold weather. I can't wait to watch the Packer/Giants game today! Those nuts will be out there without shirts at Lambeu with a game temp of -1 at kickoff!

Packer fans are Hard Core...:weightlifter:

KTM
01-20-2008, 01:18 PM
my wifes 2 uncles are heading up to the game today, with no tickets!! They said they will try to buy off the street before the game. Spending thousands to try to get in, or thy will stay out in the parking lot, it gets nutt's out there and the beer's cheaper.

qps
01-20-2008, 01:21 PM
my wifes 2 uncles are heading up to the game today, with no tickets!! They said they will try to buy off the street before the game. Spending thousands to try to get in, or thy will stay out in the parking lot, it gets nutt's out there and the beer's cheaper.

My eye doctor is from WI. told me his uncle waited 20 years on the season ticket list and never got them.....before he died:dizzy:..also people on the waiting list must pay a yearly fee just to be on the list..around 300.00 I think...that's just money in the bank for the owners.....

dozerman21
01-20-2008, 01:51 PM
My eye doctor is from WI. told me his uncle waited 20 years on the season ticket list and never got them.....before he died:dizzy:..also people on the waiting list must pay a yearly fee just to be on the list..around 300.00 I think...that's just money in the bank for the owners.....

At least it's not one person. The Packers are owned by stockholders, not one owner or family. I think Miller Brewing Co. is one of the biggest shareholders.:weightlifter::drinkup:

By the way, I think we have the same eye doctor!:cool2:

ksss
01-20-2008, 02:06 PM
At least it's not one person. The Packers are owned by stockholders, not one owner or family. I think Miller Brewing Co. is one of the biggest shareholders.:weightlifter::drinkup:

By the way, I think we have the same eye doctor!:cool2:


Apparently not Dozerman, because QPS cant see his way to own any CASE equipment. :drinkup:

dozerman21
01-20-2008, 02:30 PM
Apparently not Dozerman, because QPS cant see his way to own any CASE equipment. :drinkup:

:laugh: Deep down he really wants a Case... I think he's worried about what he would do with his Cat apparel.:cool2:

ksss
01-20-2008, 03:16 PM
:laugh: Deep down he really wants a Case... I think he's worried about what he would do with his Cat apparel.:cool2:


I have never been to Indy, but certainly there is a second hand store or two that help relieve him of that problem.:clapping:

qps
01-20-2008, 04:07 PM
I have never been to Indy, but certainly there is a second hand store or two that help relieve him of that problem.:clapping:


Dang....Shane must have drank some Hatorade this morning....:laugh:
you guys figured me out...if I didn't have so many CAT hats and jackets, and gloves,and fleece pullovers....I'd be gone it a minute if my CASE dealer would just throw a hat or bumper sticker my way:weightlifter:....

qps
01-20-2008, 04:14 PM
:laugh: Deep down he really wants a Case... I think he's worried about what he would do with his Cat apparel.:cool2:

I could open an Ebay store with all the stuff I got..:cool2:

ksss
01-20-2008, 04:17 PM
Dang....Shane must have drank some Hatorade this morning....:laugh:
you guys figured me out...if I didn't have so many CAT hats and jackets, and gloves,and fleece pullovers....I'd be gone it a minute if my CASE dealer would just throw a hat or bumper sticker my way:weightlifter:....

Well Tim, PM me your address and I will dig into my stash of CASE paraphernalia and see what I can find (I think I even have a CAT hat or two just for old times sake in case you end up giving all of yours away). :drinkup:

Construct'O
01-20-2008, 11:09 PM
I have a few Case watch fobs, if you young guys know what they are:confused:

Plus have a tieclip with a 450Case Dozer on it and might even have set of Case cuff links.Not sure about them.Then theres those Case belt buckets!!!!!!!!

Way to much Case stuff:):usflag:

Ridin' Around
01-21-2008, 11:27 AM
I have a few Case watch fobs, if you young guys know what they are:confused:

Then theres those Case belt buckets!!!!!!!!

Way to much Case stuff:):usflag:

I am not real young, but what's a belt bucket? Is that a special attachment for CASE only?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Construct'O
01-21-2008, 12:09 PM
Now you know what happens when you get old :dancing:

I was close,kind of sorta????:usflag:

qps
01-21-2008, 10:00 PM
Well Tim, PM me your address and I will dig into my stash of CASE paraphernalia and see what I can find (I think I even have a CAT hat or two just for old times sake in case you end up giving all of yours away). :drinkup:


Theres a guy at our local flea market that has CASE hats 4 for $ 1.00...can't give them away:laugh: