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GreenHor7
01-17-2008, 01:09 PM
How many steps do you guys use and what does each step consist of. Is there a big difference if you use a split application of dimension or does that not really matter too much?
Last Years Program
Dimension with Fert Late April
Weed Control Mid May
Fert and Grub Control Late June
Fert and Weed Late August
Winterizer Begining of November

crazy4green
01-18-2008, 12:51 PM
It may be just me but 2 months between fert apps seems long unless thats what cutomer want we offer 7 to 6 apps all include fert and this doesn't include grub,areation, insecticide, overseeding and other and ons

Whitey4
01-18-2008, 01:38 PM
I use five fert apps. I don't like combo products. It means more work, but I like my fert plan to be seperate from my apps. It keeps it simpler when I have to fert a property that doesn't want apps, I use the same formula for all of them. Then I can more accurately put down my pre-emerge instead of hoping the barrier holds by the time the crabbgrass germinates.

Same for grub treatments. I watch for when they emerge. That tells me when they will lay eggs, and get the buggers when they are most vulnerable. I can stick to my fert schedule and do apps at the right time for max effectiveness. I am also a small operation... that might not work for you guys with big outfits.

I like to use mostly liquid apps, and granular fert. Five apps should be ok, as long as I have my SCU's right.

First week of May 24-5-11, 50%, 3% Iron
Thrid week of June 20-8-8, 50%
First week of Aug -same
Third week of Sept -same
Winterize thrid week of Nov. 8-24-12 slow release...(still looking at this one)

I'll put my pre-emerge down at forsythia bloom fall.
Grub control three weeks after they emerge.
I start spot praying in late June for weeds.
About the first week of Sept I go after the winter weeds.
I will add an app as needed for surface insects. That depends on what I find when I'm on my stomache with a magnifying glass. At the very least, I will do a preventative app for aphids and mites.
Fungus control end of June, early Aug

This by the way, is my first year doing apps. Don't want to sound like some seasoned vet here, so any critsisms are welcome. This is the first program I ever put together.

crazy4green
01-18-2008, 01:49 PM
Just a hint whitey your winterizer. why so much phos?I would only use that if overseeding as a starter fert most soil doesn't need this unless new seed. And also I wouldn't put and fungicide unless needed and can't control other ways because it just promotes resistaint strains.Same with insecticide. just a little of my help

Whitey4
01-18-2008, 02:07 PM
Just a hint whitey your winterizer. why so much phos?I would only use that if overseeding as a starter fert most soil doesn't need this unless new seed. And also I wouldn't put and fungicide unless needed and can't control other ways because it just promotes resistaint strains.Same with insecticide. just a little of my help

I am still looking at that winterizing app. LI is low is phos, and this was recommended to me by a guy I trust. I will see him next week and ask more about that winterizing app. I can't even find that formulation anywhere. I know it is meant to be used with a fall over seeding, but it seems a bit high to me too. I think he meant 18-24-12, the Anderson's starter mix. Still, for over seeding it seems high to me. This guy is a big fan of Nutraline too. I'm on the fence with that right now.

I have a HUGE battle to fight with my customers. Many have irrigation systems, and they run them every morning. First, it's illegal to irrigate here every day. Only every other day as per local law. Shallow frequent watering... so they all end up with shallow turf roots and fungus problems. I will have to convince them to change these habits. I'll tell them they are not helping the lawn, and could avoid having to pay for fungicides if they go with deeper less frequent watering.

It's like they paid thousands to have a system installed, and think they have to get their money's worth or something. I had one place last year... some beautiful junipers used in a large area as a ground cover. Problem was, many died... in a circular pattern. I had him turn the system on... sure enough, wet feet killed them.

crazy4green
01-18-2008, 02:16 PM
I print up and make copys of some info on watering and why they should water less frequently but longer periods usally from some university site so they see its not just my opinion. I usally use OSU or MSU sites they are pretty good at least for my area but sure can find a good site for university near you. It just gives you something they can read and backs you up makes for less talking and better results.

Whitey4
01-18-2008, 03:24 PM
I print up and make copys of some info on watering and why they should water less frequently but longer periods usally from some university site so they see its not just my opinion. I usally use OSU or MSU sites they are pretty good at least for my area but sure can find a good site for university near you. It just gives you something they can read and backs you up makes for less talking and better results.

I'll be using this from the USDA, NRCS site:

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/feature/highlights/homegarden/lawn.html

I copied it, but cut it at the part where they go into "Alternatives". (sure, get rid of whiteflies with marigolds.... after the earwigs destroy the marigolds...) I think it's a pretty good sales tool for fert, apps, soil tests and proper watering technique. Most people don't even know how to set their system's clocks. It's the dopey irrigation companies that set it up that way half the time.

That "article" is good, because it doesn't answer too many questions that are unique to my area. They can read about clay, sand and loam, but they still won't know we have sandy loam here. It doesn't explain how to make amendments from soil test results either... just explains why you need one. It also encourages other stuff, like mulching. What do you think of using that as a handout? It prints out pretty well, and they conviently left a space at the upper right hand side for my business card!

crazy4green
01-18-2008, 07:54 PM
I do like that. Only change is cut it off at alternative methods don't want them getting any ideas. Also I would reccomend not watering at night just very early mourning or it promotes fungi growth. And it does in a way help sell aeration when it says to loosen soil. All in all a very good find I think I am going to use this also. make sure they see its from US dept of Ag along with buisness card it helps hold its credability

EARTHWORKS LANDSCAPE GRP
01-18-2008, 08:36 PM
[QUOTE=Whitey4;2104759]I'll put my pre-emerge down at forsythia bloom fall.

Watch yourself with that technique, crabgrass germinates when ground temp hits 55 degrees for (3) days in a row.If we have a shot of warm weather that could cause an early bloom situation, that might not necessarily cause the ground temp to rise. You may be wasting product. Or on the other end of the spectrum apply too late(you'll pay for that in June). With global warming on the rise and milder winters, we apply 2 rounds of pre-emergent. I'll check ground temps. randomlly with a ground thermometer. Good Luck.

Whitey4
01-18-2008, 09:19 PM
I do like that. Only change is cut it off at alternative methods don't want them getting any ideas. Also I would reccomend not watering at night just very early mourning or it promotes fungi growth. And it does in a way help sell aeration when it says to loosen soil. All in all a very good find I think I am going to use this also. make sure they see its from US dept of Ag along with buisness card it helps hold its credability

Yup, cutting that "alternatives" thing was the first thing I did. Agreed on early morning, but if they actually DO change their irrigation schedule, maybe not a problem. Some of these systems would have to run all night to get an inch down, one zone at a time, given the sometimes low pressure we experience. Heck, if I can get them to stop watering for at least 4 days in a row, I'll be happy!

Earthworks, I also track growing degree days as a cross reference to the lazy forsythia timing mechanism, but I didn't know about the 55 for three days in a row. Thanks for that tip. Another tool in the box! I know guys that wait until the forsythia actually start showing visable foliage. Not at all comfortable with that strategy. Then there are those who say do it at forsythia bloom.... that seems early to me. This will be the first year I use growing degree days. I'll start tracking that cross reference along with soil temps this year and keep a log. How deep do you go for your soil temp measurements?

EARTHWORKS LANDSCAPE GRP
01-18-2008, 09:51 PM
The thermometer is about 6 inches long, I probably insert it about 4-5 inches. Got it from Lesco about 4 years ago.

Fert33
01-18-2008, 10:07 PM
Does lesco still carry them? In all the years that I have been going there I have never seen a thermometer.