Why Rubber Mulch Should Be Ruled Illegal By The Fire Marshall's

[SOMM]

Saw this on the news just this am. Thought of the rubber mulch installed a few years back directly adjacent local mall's entrance right next to entry/exit doors :dizzy: where cigarette butts are usually flung by shoppers :hammerhead: :

http://www.local6.com/news/15073754/detail.html

[MarcSmith]

i have to put about dozen of mulch fires each year on campus, and I use shredded hardwood. I don't think I have ever heard of rubber mulch catching on fire.

[steve5966]

Put a lit cigarette on you truck tire and let me know when it starts to burn.

[packey]

I have never seen rubber mulch catch on fire. I am not saying it is not possible but it is no more likely than wood mulch

[Marcos]

Are you kidding?

Rubber mulch is catching on around here big time and I see nothing stopping it.

The development of this market, almost exclusively from worn out tires, I would say probably ranks as one of the top ten 'unsung' environmental achievements we've seen in the past couple decades !!

And after a long period of a monopoly of sorts by its almost exclusive use by municipalities, a greater number of competitors in the market, and better production facilities has made the price of it become more attractive now for a lot of landscapers and homeowners.

Every mulch can be made to burn in the right conditions.
I haven't seen evidence the rubber mulch is any worse in this aspect than hardwood, pine straw, cocoa shells or whatever...

Don't be afraid of the future....!

[NCIlandscaping]

Saw this on the news just this am. Thought of the rubber mulch installed a few years back directly adjacent local mall's entrance right next to entry/exit doors :dizzy: where cigarette butts are usually flung by shoppers :hammerhead: :

http://www.local6.com/news/15073754/detail.html

Kids have been known to get cut on belts in tires from this stuff too

[1wezil]

in wood mulch you can find nails also ,if you look hard enough you will fine something wrong with anything so then what ? i use a lot of hardwood mulch dyed black we like it . pine mulch can burn , any kind of wood mulch will burn given the right conditions ....

[Marcos]

Kids have been known to get cut on belts in tires from this stuff too

Whatever doesn't kill them should only work to make them stronger!

[Marcos]

in wood mulch you can find nails also.

I suppose, in theory, you could find quite a few nails in rubber mulch, too !
:laugh:

[mag360]

Cocoa shell mulch is supposedly pretty fire resistant and shouldn't have any foreign objects in it. We plan on trying to build a market for it here in southeast Pa.

[Clear-Cut]

isnt rubber mulch pollution...that rubber will never disintegrate

[John Zaprala]

Cocoa shell mulch is supposedly pretty fire resistant and shouldn't have any foreign objects in it. We plan on trying to build a market for it here in southeast Pa.

It's been around SE PA for year's by the bag. I used to work at a retail nursery/grower (Gardner's in Chester Springs). We sold 2 pallets a year. I love the smell of it, but how would you get it bulk for an affordable price up here? Not many companies would go for it IMO... do you have any ideas on how you would market cocoa shell much? Costs? I may be interested if you were serious.

[John Zaprala]

isnt rubber mulch pollution...that rubber will never disintegrate

isn't that the point!? It's recycling! And is typically used in applications were they don't want to have mulch replaced all the time. (playgrounds, malls, etc.) It's applied with a spray glue that binds it together (if installed correctly) We only use it when asked specifically (only playgrounds for us) and we've already had complaints bc the mulch still gets thrown, kicked etc. and then weeds pop up (even with fabric).

[Grits]

Wood mulch has a greater chance of being set on fire than rubber mulch. I have heard case where wood mulch spontaneously combusted. There are pics of it on this forum somewhere.

[John Zaprala]

When I was 18 I went to a Mulch Grinder who had many mountains of mulch on acres of land... long story short, my worker flicked a butt out the window while pulling out... when we came back 30 minutes later for more, the workers had a pump truck putting out a rather large (not out of hand, but dangerous) fire. NEVER SMOKE WHILE GETTING MULCH!!! Lesson learned.:nono:

[yardmanlee]

Cocoa shell mulch is supposedly pretty fire resistant and shouldn't have any foreign objects in it. We plan on trying to build a market for it here in southeast Pa.

whats it going for I have 40 bags of the stuff, I like the smell but it dosent last too long, trying to think of a way to market this item, and I didnt think you could get it anymore ?

[Marcos]

whats it going for I have 40 bags of the stuff, I like the smell but it dosent last too long, trying to think of a way to market this item, and I didnt think you could get it anymore ?

Sam's Club / Wal- Mart is going to be starting a huge campaign with bagged rubber mulch starting late this month or next; in their continued endeavor towards a 'greener' marketing strategy, like they've been doing for the past year or so with the compact fluorescent bulbs.

I was at Sam's last week and they had a big display of it there.
It looked like they'd sold quite a bit of it already, too.

[Marcos]

isnt rubber mulch pollution...that rubber will never disintegrate

Sure...it will never disintegrate.

But as long as it's properly maintained (and contained) in the playground or landscape, it can't be called "pollution" by definition because it doesn't leach, into the soil, and it's attractive to the eye even after long periods of time.

If you want to get into the real "meat" of this debate...you could argue that applying traditional wood mulch or whatever, year in and year out, in effect causes more "pollution" than rubber mulch simply because of all the extra hauling and dumping needed EVERY YEAR; not to mention the environmental impact of accessing materials for the wood mulch & the fuel needed to process wood mulch every year in bags, and to bring it to bulk pick-up sites EVERY YEAR..

vs.

the cost of recovering tires, safely processing them into mulch, and delivering those products, bagged and bulk, to pick-up points, in theory, only.. ONE TIME.

[John Zaprala]

I guess that's why you should buy local. We goto a Mulch Grinder. We drop off our debris (and many other comanies and tree services as well) it gets grinded , dyed and resold. Less travel for us, them and a great price (under $15 for dyed). I feel the mulch companies fall into the same agricultural class as a farm would in our area.

[MarcSmith]

I've been trying to get the "hoya kids" playground changed over, but they have a sand box integrated with the playground.....UGH....we have to excavate every other year to remove the sand and still viable play ground chips since the sand has caused it to lose its "bounce"

[GLLawns]

My kids old daycare used to have the black rubber mulch on the playground and it was a mess. The kids would come home with it in there pants, shoes, socks, and the black residue all over their clothes. Not only that but it was extremely hot to the touch in the warmer summer months, and yes there were some pieces of the steel belting in there from time to time. I feel that a natural product is safer to an extent, less messy, and overall smelled alot better too. Who the hell wants to open their house windows and smell the raunchy rubber smell coming in all day. The one benefit of the rubber mulch though is that it is a great way to recycle the old tires, but then again there are better ways to use old tires then turning it into mulch.

[Marcos]

but then again there are better ways to use old tires then turning it into mulch.

Such as..?

[steve5966]

Ground tires can be used as a fuel, much like coal, with the proper equipment to clean the exhaust. It's being done at a local cement company to operate their kiln.

[yardmanlee]

every sample I've seen it dosent take long to fine steel cords sticking out of some of those pieces of mulch, and my opion its not safe enough for the kids to play in

[mag360]

It's been around SE PA for year's by the bag. I used to work at a retail nursery/grower (Gardner's in Chester Springs). We sold 2 pallets a year. I love the smell of it, but how would you get it bulk for an affordable price up here? Not many companies would go for it IMO... do you have any ideas on how you would market cocoa shell much? Costs? I may be interested if you were serious.

Seems to have disappeared lately. I think because of price. There is a small chance for us to deal with this stuff in bulk and bags for a cost similar to wood mulch. If it pans out I don't think it will be hard to sell since cost (I think) is the major reason many homeowners and landscapers alike never went for the stuff. It seems to have caught on in certain areas in the southeast and I know I'd rather smell it all day than wood mulch. Dealing in bulk might not be realistic for most companies because it will get lumpy if it gets wet. Every product comes with its own set of problem though and we are not even a supply yard now---it's just something that caught my interest.

[yardmanlee]

what I have I plan on including it on some of my spring mulch jobs to give it that chocolatey aroma !! if it catches on I might need a supplier

[44DCNF]

Cocoa bean hulls are an excellent soil ammendment. It's not real long lasting as a mulch but I suppose it is that fast decomposition that helps it loosen soil so well.

I was reading that the rubber mulch is responsible for a lot of plant loss due to it's high zinc content. I know some playgrounds around here quit using it because of kids setting it alight. Recycled rubber would be best used in asphalt paving but it will probably be a long time before we see it in wide spread use in the US for that, if ever at all. The lobby against it is too strong from what I understand.

[tallrick]

I have used old conveyor belting for walkways, and in the garden. The shredded stuff is great, it seems to help pine trees grow better. One "environmental" group had planted slash pines and used rocks for mulch, raising the PH of the soil so I suggested shredded rubber and the trees went from sickly yellow to deep green.

[yardmanlee]

I'd rather put some type of rock down as opposed to using rubber mulch

[SOMM]

Great comments.
We think old tires recycle best into mixing into new road asphalt.

You can also do a LS "rubber mulch" search to find ornamental people's disgust with rubber mulch around plantings due to rubber maintaining too high a peak temperature for most plantings, especially annual plantings.

Some things to think on, for those insightful enough to think-zero of the enviro-danger of this profiteer motivated product from hell:
During the cumulative next 10 years :

1. What will the health effects and attendant costs be on communities whose families homes and kids whose schools are located immediately downwind / downstream (above or underground) from rubber mulch manufacturing facilities ?

2. What will the costs be to landscapers sued by the affected-communities class-action lawsuits levied at every landscaper and/or their subs who ever installed rubber mulch (especially 10+ yards or more upon commercial/ industrial/ institutional sites) anywhere near storm water runoff into sources of drinking water from underground wells or water purification plants located near big acreage of storm water runoff where they installed rubber mulch ?

We say it's high time for landscapers to use their own God-given noodle on this issue and to think proactively ahead (as opposed to thinking like a dag hillbilly: "chit, i don't live there, ain't near my dag water!").

Bear in mind that one's own unmaintained cracked/ leaking septic tank near their own well water (or God forbid, 3-4 neighboring properties single, shared-well :dizzy:) can leach enough e.coli bacteria several thousand feet away on the other side of the road, to poison the proximate well's-water bad enough (to send them to the hospital and) for them to need to have a new well dug quite an expensive distance away !

Why open yourself to this kind of future liability ? How would you feel 10 years from now if the EPA or even a posh municipality made you dig-out all the rubber mulch you ever installed within their township ?

[Big Bad Bob]

Are you kidding?

Rubber mulch is catching on around here big time and I see nothing stopping it.

The development of this market, almost exclusively from worn out tires, I would say probably ranks as one of the top ten 'unsung' environmental achievements we've seen in the past couple decades !!

And after a long period of a monopoly of sorts by its almost exclusive use by municipalities, a greater number of competitors in the market, and better production facilities has made the price of it become more attractive now for a lot of landscapers and homeowners.

Every mulch can be made to burn in the right conditions.
I haven't seen evidence the rubber mulch is any worse in this aspect than hardwood, pine straw, cocoa shells or whatever...

Don't be afraid of the future....!

One thing I always wondered was how do plants respond to long term exposure to this material?

[SOMM]

We've even had a recent case where several different families' high school kids have d-i-e-d during the past few years - all within the same neighborhood where a class-action-sued hillbilly waste oil hauler from 15 years back, thought is would be a great service to spray waste oil with dioxin and pcb's onto gravel roads "just to keep down the dust". It occurred unthinkably "just" where the kids were playing !

[44DCNF]

One thing I always wondered was how do plants respond to long term exposure to this material?


about the zinc harming plants...rubber mulch (http://www.paghat.com/rubbermulch.html). I just found it in a quick search and don't know if it is a reputable article.