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View Full Version : Komatsu skid steer's and CTL's


Fieldman12
01-17-2008, 09:23 PM
Okay where are all the Komatsu fan's out there? I have been around there excavators and dozers some and was impressed. Im surprised we dont have anyone on here with a Komatsu skid or CTL. Any word yet as to how well they are doing out there?

RockSet N' Grade
01-17-2008, 09:32 PM
Our local Gehl dealerships have become associated with Komatsu and will bring in their dozers and excavators, but are not really promoting their skids.

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 11:11 AM
I like their form of Vertical Path loaders, they have a unique torque multiplier in the linkage, much like a "zoom boom" has, that gives them better lift, but I've never run one before, at least they use a good strong U/C.

ksss
01-18-2008, 11:14 AM
I demoed one in 03' and was around one during prototype testing two years ago. They have not been that well received for a couple of reasons. Thats not to say they are a bad machine. I have talked to some guys that have run them and like them. Overall though I don't think Komatsu is used to running at the back of the pack like they are in the skid steer market.

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 11:16 AM
They are no the greatest on fuel either, someone in my 'hood had 2 Komatsu SSL's and traded them off in a year for Cat's.

Fieldman12
01-18-2008, 08:29 PM
Hmm, I kinda like the looks of the machines. I think the pin where the cylinder that raises the boom on the skid looks like it needs more metal around it. On the CTL's though they look heavier built. I like Komatsu stuff. I use to think there dozers where kind of funny looking but man they sure where fast moving dirt or at least the operator made it look that way.

darinray
01-18-2008, 09:14 PM
I've got a SK815 with joystick controls and it is sweet. They way underrated this beast as just yesterday we off loaded a truck lift that weighed 2750 pounds and I didn't even hear a good strain or feel uneasy. Very stable and soooo easy to operate with the joysticks. :) I also have over 20 Komatsu dozers like D20's, D21's, D31's, D37's, 2 wheel loaders WA70 and WA150, and mini PC35R-8 excavator. Yeah I'm a Komatsu fan. :) As far as being hard on fuel I thought opposite as you can run all these machine all day hard (as hard as these little babies can) and still have fuel at the end of the day in the tank.

I don't use all these of course but sell when and what I can. *trucewhiteflag*

bobcatexc
01-18-2008, 09:32 PM
We've got a Komatsu CK35 track loader at work, it's not a bad little machine. The joystick controls are the best among the Cat and Takeuchi that we demod. It does seem to use the fuel pretty good, I don't care for the visiblity on the sides. It's definately got some power, if your in descent dirt pushing, you have to watch or you'll have dirt rollin up in the cab, no joke! The bucket breakout doesn't seem that good, but all in all not a bad little machine with 8-900 hrs.

Construct'O
01-18-2008, 10:14 PM
Just checked a CK 30-1 out on machinerytrader.It has the same track system as a Deere does.It looks to be exactly the same even the roller frame for the tracks and rollers,etc.

They also looked like the roller frame bolted on the machine the same as Deere.

Deere is Berco and i think someone else on here said both was using them.So that looks to be true,along with the Brigdestone tracks also.

Interesting to see that.:usflag:

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 10:26 PM
Berco makes the U/C for Deere and Komatsu, Deere was the first one to have problems with the tracks walking off, so Komatsu ordered up the triple flanged front idlers PDQ.

Construct'O
01-18-2008, 10:38 PM
My idlers are double flanged(not triple),open in the center and the teeth on the track belts run inside the idler, instead of the outside of the idler like Bobcat and some of the others.

Haven't lost a track yet, and never have yet to tighten a track with 650 plus hours on them,but who's to say it won't happen tomorrow.

Like everything eventally it will happen,if you just wait long enough:rolleyes::usflag: What that you say.........the nut behind the butt in the seat:confused::dancing: Something like that:walking:

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 10:56 PM
"Nutt behind the Butt", that's what I said to the Takeuchi sales rep this morning, he laughed, said he sold a few CTL's to some of those "nutts".

Fieldman12
01-19-2008, 01:53 PM
That is what I have heard that the Deere and Komatsu undercarriage is made by Berco.

JDSKIDSTEER
01-19-2008, 04:42 PM
Berco makes the U/C for Deere and Komatsu, Deere was the first one to have problems with the tracks walking off, so Komatsu ordered up the triple flanged front idlers PDQ.
Since when did Deere have problems with tracks walking off?

JDSKIDSTEER
01-19-2008, 04:45 PM
That is what I have heard that the Deere and Komatsu undercarriage is made by Berco. They are the same except Komatsu has some kind of clean out bar on the track frame which from what I can tell is usless. Maybe they put it there to differentiate them from the Deere. I drove it and I liked the ride control and their joy stick controls where real smooth.

bobcat_ron
01-19-2008, 05:56 PM
Since when did Deere have problems with tracks walking off?


The very first few people could walk them off pretty easy.

JDSKIDSTEER
01-19-2008, 09:08 PM
The very first few people could walk them off pretty easy.
I remember Deere recommending to check the slack the first 20 hours instead of first 50 hours but other than that they made no changes. After that the problem disappeared. We did not have a problem here, but our salesman in Nashville did.

crazymike
01-19-2008, 11:08 PM
I'm probably one of the biggest komatsu fanatics out there.

I've run all machines and I'm a strong believer in buying a machine, not a brand.

I've had a Komatsu D4 for one season and run several of their excavators. We also have a WA series loader. I now exclusively rent from Komatsu and have been very happy. (except one problem with their insurance)

The machines are the most fuel efficient machines out there. I can't see how someone can have a problem with this unless they are running WOT all day long. (their rental excavators don't seem usually have auto-idle and can waste fuel)

The CTLs are hands down the best out there. I've demoed all of them, and I mean ALL of them. Even the chinese CTLs. The komastsu was the best well rounded machine. You can knock the simple track design and rougher ride all you want, give me a call when you have to rebuild your cat undercarriage. Lots of power and the power on demand works well. The flat foor is nice and they have fixed the foot throttle issue that some had. The engine was strong and the machine was close enough to an 8' machine to be used for landscaping. The cab was nice and quiet aswell.

I'm also a big fan of the overhead sliding door. Having a skid steer door you can keep on year round without being a PITA is priceless.

People will say it's harder to get parts, that said, I'm able to get parts just as fast for our Komatsu as the case machines.

Here is the clincher that slowed me from buying the komatsu CTL. It's a good $15,000 - $20,000 more than the Case and John Deere.

By next year I plan to purchase a Komatsu CTL. Hopefully the price will have settled by then. But in my experience, the Komatsus have been the most reliable machines we have owned. They make some of the biggest earth moving machines on the planet, they are far from a cheap overseas brand

dozerman21
01-20-2008, 09:05 AM
Here is the clincher that slowed me from buying the komatsu CTL. It's a good $15,000 - $20,000 more than the Case and John Deere.

No thanks... If they're that much more they better operate themselves. I wouldn't say a machine is "hands down" the best out there, because there are too many different uses for a machine, especially a skid or CTL. Some like/need comfort, some need power, whatever. There are several good CTL's on the market that are well rounded and the Komatsu might be one of them, but they aren't very popular here. I have no doubt though that they build good equipment.

bobcat_ron
01-20-2008, 11:56 AM
There's no reason Komatsu should always be higher in price, it's all the same steel that the Asian machines are made of.

ksss
01-20-2008, 12:58 PM
Komatsu certainly builds excellent equipment. They are one of the top OEMs in the world so they are doing some things right.

Their skid steers are not one of them (the same arguement could be made about their backhoes). I demoed their big radial lift machine a couple years back. Some things that I liked were the feel of the controls. I was again around this machine in the AZ CASE proving grounds. I thought that the best feel of the controls went to the Komatsu machine. The problem with the machine besides visibility and some similiar issues goes back I believe to the pattern changer. They run hyd. pilots like the TK and B series CAT. The TK and CAT did not put a pattern changer on their machines. I asked CASE why they did not put a Komatsu like pattern changer on the CASE machine. It seems like a good idea from the consumer end. The reason was made crystal clear and later explained to me like this. By using a pattern changer like in a mini ex. you must make all flows and pressures the same regardless of function. That works in an excavator. It does not work in skid steer. The result is anemic wheel torque and bucket breakout that was about 1/3 everyone elses. It is a great concept however if you work you machine hard you will not be happy with the performance. There are those that don't need a skid steer for that purpose. Those types of customers might get along fine with the Komatsu.

The Komatsu in the testing I was a part of was routinely scored at the bottom in nearly every area. I did not necessarily agree with that in every catagory but that was the way it averaged out.

The reason they don't sell many is they are comparatively not a real great machine. I have spoke with guys that own them and some liked them. One guy who was out in AZ with me had 26 CASE 85XT/445s and 5 Komatsu loaders (large retaining wall builder out East). They liked them. Again hauling around retaining wall block is not a real hard days work so they were happy with them.

I spoke with a factory Komatsu rep a couple years ago and he said that they are not happy about their position in the skid steer market. Komatsu is really not used to running at the back of the pack. I would look for some drastic changes in the near future in these machines.

Fieldman12
01-20-2008, 01:38 PM
Komatsu has growed allot on me. I see a good bit of there stuff around anymore. There is no Komatsu dealer close to me so that would be one strike against them for me. I sure wish I got to try out machines like you do ksss. Im suprised they did not have a Deere machine there for you to test out. I would like to know what your thoughts are comparing them to the Case machines.

ksss
01-20-2008, 02:02 PM
Komatsu has growed allot on me. I see a good bit of there stuff around anymore. There is no Komatsu dealer close to me so that would be one strike against them for me. I sure wish I got to try out machines like you do ksss. Im suprised they did not have a Deere machine there for you to test out. I would like to know what your thoughts are comparing them to the Case machines.


Some of it has to do with what is being tested. The last one in AZ was primarily the CASE pilots, Deere does not of course have pilots so that one was easy. The 440 CT was also being evaluated, yet still the Deere was not there, don't know why. The time before that in Ks. there were no Deere either that was CAT and Bobcat. I am not sure why, I suspect that someone did a survey and found that CASE usually competes with BC and CAT for the same customers. Deere probably goes against NH more than CASE and so NH likely focuses on the Deere product more, but I am just guessing.

As far getting to run these different machines, it is a great experience. I am lucky to get a call every so often to do it. I keep in contact with those guys on about a monthly basis, the information and help goes both ways. It is very nice to be in direct contact with the guys that engineered the machine.

Fieldman12
01-20-2008, 07:07 PM
I think it is good for a person to run different brands of machines to just compare what he has to the others. Kinda lets you know where you stand and what may be your best next purchase. You know I have been a big Cat fan all my life and still think they make the best big dozers but I sure hear allot of complaints in some of there stuff they make anymore. Anything from being underpowered, to the not so great undercarriages and the backhoes they had with the booms breaking. My cousin who he works for his family rent every brand out just about. He says they most of the time have the worst luck with Cat. I really hate to hear that because to me Cat is part of an American tradition.

dirtybiz
01-20-2008, 08:37 PM
Their is a pretty large excavating company here that runs all komatsu equip now (excavators, front end loaders, and ctl's). I asked him this summer how he liked his ctl, because he always used to have bobcat and some cat's before that, and he swears by them. I can't really say because i have not run them, but his word was pretty valued by me anyhow. Be interesting to try one out, looked at one at a local construction show recently, don't look to bad.