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View Full Version : When the US sneezes we catch a cold


Gravel Rat
01-18-2008, 03:59 AM
You guys are feeling a slow down in the work/economy now its starting here :nono:

Talking with some of the truck drivers I know from work are saying it is getting bad. One of the trucking companies that has been in the business since the 50s said they never seen it this bad even during the 80s recession.

The paving company has laid their crew off there is no work. Most gravel trucks are parked maybe working once a week. Its not from the weather we can work 365 days a year there is no winter slow down because of snow we don't get much snow. Excavation contractors are probably just making equipment payments.

It seems like everybody has decided to cut back on spending money. Glad I have a guaranteed job it looks like 2008 will be a rough year for most. Many people are worried it will be the 80s all over again.

You guys quit sneezing over on the otherside of the boarder your giving us the sniffles :laugh:

The money that was flowing around the area like cheap wine has turned into little money being spent sipping on the cheap wine.

To sum it up who ever says the our US neighbours economy doesn't affect Canada's is full of crap. We are seeing it already in the resource based communities that supply materials to the US.

qps
01-18-2008, 07:35 AM
Who can the U.S. blame for the worlds problems:dizzy::dizzy:

JB1
01-18-2008, 08:11 AM
there is no problems, haven't you been reading some of the threads on here everything is all hunky dory.

RockSet N' Grade
01-18-2008, 08:27 AM
If you hold on to one opinion long enough, you are bound to be right at least once in your lifetime.

Dirt Digger2
01-18-2008, 09:26 AM
we're the slowest we've ever been...we are starting a new division of the company, an environmental side where we will go dig out contaminated soil at old gas stations. Requires all kinds of different insurance and OSHA training but its where the money is right now


one of the largest site contractors/road builders in my area just sold off 45 pieces of equipment to cover their overhead this year...so even the big guys are feeling the hurt.

allinearth
01-18-2008, 09:48 AM
I don't want to jinx myself but everyone is saying slow and we are as busy as I can ever remember for this time of year. And the jobs seem to keep coming! Usually we have nothing to do this time of year and scrounge for work. This year the only thing keeping us from working spring hours is bad weather.

RockSet N' Grade
01-18-2008, 10:55 AM
I just talked with an old buddy of mine in California....Los Angeles area. He is booked solid, can't keep up with the work, and is buying new equipment and hiring to meet his demand.....he is doing commercial/industrial work, 25,000-100,000 sq. ft. building pads and site prep. On the other hand.....residential went slip-slidin'-away some time ago.

meets1
01-18-2008, 11:50 AM
Alot I think depends where you live. I am in a rural area - famers are buying land for $8800 an acre where 1 year ago it was around $5k. JD dealership here in town has never sold som many machines that most of there of sales won't be shipped till mid summer to late fall due to the production on deere. I have been doing well - bought 2 new trucks and a new skid. There may be some slow down due to residental doing themselves - going to menards, lowes, depot - but that is my area i guess.

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 12:22 PM
GR, you ought to spend some time here in "cow town", we are booming here, hell, even our truck is busy, gravel trucks whipping up and down the roads and none of them are driven by the "others".

We could use another "the sky is falling" type person here.

AI Inc
01-18-2008, 12:27 PM
Alot I think depends where you live. I am in a rural area - famers are buying land for $8800 an acre where 1 year ago it was around $5k. JD dealership here in town has never sold som many machines that most of there of sales won't be shipped till mid summer to late fall due to the production on deere. I have been doing well - bought 2 new trucks and a new skid. There may be some slow down due to residental doing themselves - going to menards, lowes, depot - but that is my area i guess.

Are you not in a new Ethenol based economy now?

Gravel Rat
01-18-2008, 05:02 PM
I'am not blaming anybody but when you have communities that pretty much have one or two industries a slow housing market in the US slows things down. The log haulers are spreading themselves all over the place to find work. With the other trucking companies the undercutting is starting because they are looking for work.

The only place in B.C. that is busy is Vancouver/Lowermainland all about Olympic crap and people with more money than brains buying realestate in Vancouver that is overpriced by hundreds of thousands of dollars. Vancouver is trying to be a wanna be california. Vancouver has pretty much two nationalities Asian/oriental and East India. Places like Richmond where 1 out of 100 people are white same with Surrey aka New Delhi. Houses and condos being built everywhere to cram more people into one city. Traffic is a nightmare in Vancouver you take your life in your hands when you drive in Vancouver. I really don't know what the allure of Vancouver is but man people are willing to spend millions to live there :dizzy:

If you were a born and raised Vancouverite you have no hope of buying a house in the neighbourhood you were raised in. Some of my relatives are in the construction industry in Vancouver. I have been told some people spend 40,000 or more on a bathroom in their house :eek:

I don't live in Vancouver and never will. Look at somebody the wrong way you get stabbed or shot :(

What is happening in Vancouver is like over stretching a rubber band it is going to snap. Everything is 2010 Olympics so the gov't is spending millions sinking the province into debt. Gordon Campbell doesn't give a rats --- , while large Forestry employers which still provides the province with 70% of the tax revenue are shutting down. The mill towns with one industry either a sawmill or pulp mill will be not much longer.

The sky isn't falling yet but a 1980s recession is getting close :laugh:

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 05:17 PM
The sky isn't falling yet but a 1980s recession is getting close :laugh:

But it will fall!!!

Gravel Rat
01-18-2008, 05:46 PM
People are so so far into debt know if the interest rate rises 1% they can't afford the payments. I hope your making good money now Ron because it will be like here. We had a 4.5 year gravy train things were whipping along good and now its not so good. I can see some new equipment be going up forsale if the work doesn't improve. One of the Forestry contractors that has been in the business for 35 years hasn't seen it this bad. Same with some of the excavation contractors that have been in business for 40 years.

There always been year round work now its slim pickings.

It doesn't help that the market is flooded now with excavation contractors just in 4 years there has to be 10 new contractors that started.

Dirt Digger2
01-18-2008, 06:34 PM
it goes in cycles...the new guys come in and can't get any jobs so they go out of business..when the economy picks back up (probably after the election this fall is my guess) then business will pick back up and only the hardened veterans will be there, then new guys will pop up and it will get slow again...Darwin's theory..only the strong survive

stevie b
01-18-2008, 07:00 PM
stevie b here ,new to forum..did 4 plows dec ......and jan 1st ,,, [ 5 total.]..........rare for chi town .... actually im in the west subs .... thank god for the white stuff........ive got lots of bills

stevie b
01-18-2008, 07:06 PM
anybody from the west suburb of chi-town or chi-town

JDSKIDSTEER
01-18-2008, 07:56 PM
anybody from the west suburb of chi-town or chi-town
I grew up in Harvey on the south side right next to the big rock quary on I-80.

tnmtn
01-18-2008, 08:24 PM
JD,
i have to say you have learned to blend in well. when i stopped by and met you i had no idea you were from "up there". :laugh:

AI Inc
01-18-2008, 08:32 PM
Keep in mind 80% of the Canadian population lives within 50 miles of the US border , our economy is your economy.

Dirt Digger2
01-18-2008, 10:43 PM
Keep in mind 80% of the Canadian population lives within 50 miles of the US border , our economy is your economy.

haha same with mexico...wheres the mexicans on here to tell us what their economy is like?

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 10:50 PM
Maybe we should take a clue from all the wetbacks packing up and heading home...............

RockSet N' Grade
01-19-2008, 12:42 AM
never thought I would say this.....but I am kinda glad to be here. New residential looks a little slow, commercial is still going and remodel/additions seem to be cranking. We are just adjusting.....more marketing in all different forms and bidding. I am confident that we will be busy and making frog-skins come winter thaw.

Dirt Digger2
01-19-2008, 02:33 AM
Maybe we should take a clue from all the wetbacks packing up and heading home...............

they do it every year here...its a big problem in the schools because it makes the standardized test grades so low so the school district can't get any government funding...they always leave around christmas and return in april/may

Gravel Rat
01-19-2008, 03:46 AM
Well lets hope the work picks up in the spring time. Even the tourism was way down last summer. If the price of fuel goes up to 1.50 a litre (5.55 a galllon) like they are predicting that will kill any tourism this summer. The motorhome crowd during summer 2007 was barely existant.

Tourist based industries had a rough summer which isn't good for them because they need the money to get through the winter till May.

AI Inc
01-19-2008, 09:49 AM
haha same with mexico...wheres the mexicans on here to tell us what their economy is like?

They will have to call home and ask.

mrusk
01-19-2008, 12:21 PM
We really have no slow down where I am working. On the street I am working on people are buying up 50 year old ranches for 800k and dumping 500k into them as fast as possible.

topsites
01-19-2008, 12:38 PM
Maybe we should take a clue from all the wetbacks packing up and heading home...............

Hell if I even stop and think about it I don't think they helped matters either.

I hope it's true, that they are leaving.

dozerman21
01-19-2008, 01:35 PM
Hell if I even stop and think about it I don't think they helped matters either.

I hope it's true, that they are leaving.


What the he!! is that picture of in your avitar? I've stared at it and have no clue.

Fieldman12
01-19-2008, 02:38 PM
Around here the economy is bad. Those that have money are holding on tight. You know it's bad when you watch the stock market every day and they keep putting out bad news and the stocks keep getting hammered. We have this new stimulus package the president is working on to try to keep us from going into a recession. Farming for the most part now is doing excellent. Granted people in livestock, cotton, sugar cane and so on are not doing that great. The ethanol is what is putting all the hype into farming. Farmers spend allot of money in the economy but to me that is just a different type of work in the economy all together. Land prices around here keep going up because of it but housing is starting to drop. It's going to be several years before things start to turn around and I don't think we have seen the bottom yet. I been playing the stock market since I was little. This is the worst times i have ever seen. Allot has also changed because of being able to buy and sell stocks on line. I can remember back when you had to look in the paper to see what the prices it closed at the day before. If you wanted to know what it was trading for that day you had to call your stock broker. Now it is all at your finger tips where you can buy and sell very quickly. That has been kind of a double edged sword for the US in my opinion.

Fieldman12
01-19-2008, 02:41 PM
Dirtdigger2 makes a very true and good point that only the strong will survive the ups and downs of the economy and in my opinion it is not best to have all your eggs in one basket.

Dirt Digger2
01-19-2008, 02:52 PM
it is not best to have all your eggs in one basket.

thats why we are starting this environmental division...when theres no new house construction, people arn't replacing their septic fields, and nobody wants to have their septic tank pumped we have no work...we do small commercial jobs but the bigger companies are under bidding us on them now because they need work too...so its forced us to look at other ways of making money

Grass Happens
01-19-2008, 02:55 PM
anybody from the west suburb of chi-town or chi-town

So far west, i don't know if we're considered a 'burb yet, but I feel that we should...

Its getting pretty slow around here, unless you plant corn, then its the first time you've "made" money in a long time. Although the hard-core old time farmers still act like there fields have been plagued with locusts, there was a drought and corn became poisonous.
I'm not going to buy any new equipment this spring like I was hoping too, Imma just going to wait and see....

Fieldman12
01-19-2008, 03:25 PM
DirtDigger2, I did not mean that comment at you as you had already made the statement you guys where into other things also. I just was meaining other people in general.

Jpocket
01-19-2008, 04:41 PM
Well lets hope the work picks up in the spring time. Even the tourism was way down last summer. If the price of fuel goes up to 1.50 a litre (5.55 a galllon) like they are predicting that will kill any tourism this summer. The motorhome crowd during summer 2007 was barely existant.

Tourist based industries had a rough summer which isn't good for them because they need the money to get through the winter till May.

Yep Thats :)what im hoping for spring time.

SiteSolutions
01-19-2008, 04:57 PM
What the he!! is that picture of in your avitar? I've stared at it and have no clue.

Yeah, I would like to know that as well. That has puzzled me for half a year.

Grass Happens
01-19-2008, 05:01 PM
Yeah, I would like to know that as well. That has puzzled me for half a year.

I'm pretty sure its from an rpg video game of some sort. An old final fantasy perhaps...

allinearth
01-19-2008, 06:02 PM
If all the mexicans leave you will have a lot of industries really hurting. Your average young americans just aren't going to do some of the jobs they do. I have had too many not even make it through the day much less a week. I get tired of people talking about Mexicans going home. If they do you will see problems.

Gravel Rat
01-19-2008, 08:09 PM
Okay I had to look up the slang Wetback I didn't know what it was I guess I'am not that old :laugh:

My brother was telling me his friends that work in the forestry industry are looking at retraining. They know their jobs as a logger are numbered. Even getting a job with a excavation contractor will be tough.

My disposal work used to be regular part time job hauling away 20-30 years worth of accumulation of junk in peoples yards or doing demolition work. All that work has pretty well disapeared. House renovations are not happening I guess now that it costs 200,000-400,000 more to buy the same house 4 years ago nobody can afford to renovate it. I was involved in a complete house guts and the carpenters did a reno.

I always had lumber hauling from the local mills that is gone I asked the one mill owners he said homeowners are doing it themselves to save money. The larger loads they hire a crane service with a knuckle boom. Even in the slowest part of the economy 1999-2000 I had jobs delivering lumber.

Landscaper buddy is slow too I think he laid all his crew off not because of the weather.

I wish people would start spending money again but it looks like things will be a little tight for awhile. There isn't much niche work you can do when the homeowners and developers have turned off the money faucet. The developers already put out millions and haven't got much return on the investment.

YardPro
01-20-2008, 10:32 AM
I have been told some people spend 40,000 or more on a bathroom in their house :eek:



What is happening in Vancouver is like over stretching a rubber band it is going to snap. Everything is 2010 Olympics so the gov't is spending millions sinking the province into debt. Gordon Campbell doesn't give a rats --- , while large Forestry employers which still provides the province with 70% of the tax revenue are shutting down. The mill towns with one industry either a sawmill or pulp mill will be not much longer.

The sky isn't falling yet but a 1980s recession is getting close :laugh:

dude,
you need prozak....

First,
the $40 K for a bathroom is no big deal... i guess you have never owned and remodled a house.... I have $200K in outdoor kitchen jobs lined up at vacation homes here at the beach.
hell i have clients that spend $15K on a stove, and $8-10 K on a refrigerator.

The Olympics are a big deal..... All this government spending that you are so gloom and doom about...
that money is passing into the hands of your local contractors.. Why is there a problem???
also when the Olympics happen it will more than pay for itself. Why do you think cities want it so bad. It is a huge economic boost.

A lot of the problems you are complaining about are from contractors getting fat and happy during the glory days. buying equipment they really don't need, etc.


also, almost every post i read from you talks about how bad the economy is, but out of the other side of your mouth you complain about all these rich "idiots" overpaying for land in the city.
first off people that can afford a $1M house is far from stupid. The have been smart enough to have the finances to buy the house.,
second, why the heck are you not working there???

GO WHERE THE MONEY IS.....

It's kind of like the ethopians wondering why they are starving while they live in a desert where they cannot grow any food????????

Dirt Digger2
01-20-2008, 02:10 PM
DirtDigger2, I did not mean that comment at you as you had already made the statement you guys where into other things also. I just was meaining other people in general.

i was completely agreeing with you...that was our problem, we were relying too heavily on the residential construction industry and it bit us hard in the as$ this winter when the work slowed down. Its one thing to specialize in one kind of work like we do with septic/drainage but we needed to be in other things too and make the business more diverse

this environmental thing should be the ticket though...all contract jobs, no per hour. I'm getting really involved as I am a CE major, this summer the boss has already made it clear to me that it will be "my baby"...he will put me on the road for 3 or 4 days doing jobs all over the area...anything over a 1 1/2 hour drive i will be in a hotel room until the job is done...so it should be fun, i'm young, i like that kind of stuff haha

janb
01-20-2008, 05:09 PM
...
I wish people would start spending money again but it looks like things will be a little tight for awhile. ..

Guess the $CDN is getting spent at the 'south-of-the-border' malls, as an article in paper today (Oregonian) said the huge building boom in BC in general is making it tough to find CDN contractors for 2010 Olympic Projects, so they need to solicit more bids from US contractors. Rate has gone from $1.40 to $.93 today, so US is bargain (we have USD$2.39 per gal milk, cheaper than fuel; like the wine when I lived in Spain... legend was; that they used wine to mix mortar for the church, as water was too hard to get:laugh:)

GravelyNut
01-20-2008, 06:23 PM
Alot I think depends where you live. I am in a rural area - famers are buying land for $8800 an acre where 1 year ago it was around $5k....

Wish land was that cheap around here. We pay that much a year in taxes for 3 acres and the house. :D Might concider staying here if that was the case. We haven't seen $5K an acre since back in the '70s. We sold an acre and a half lot here for $150K last year and the county is taxing another as if it was worth $200K.

dons
01-20-2008, 10:27 PM
I'm the opposite from the dome & gloom and the sky is falling type of person, have always seen the glass as half full, still do. But can tell you things are a real mess here. A lot of folks related to the home market in any capacity are in real trouble. Honestly, many are dropping like rocks if they didn't have a savings to fall back on.

I agree with Dirtdigger2 & Fieldman12 whole heartily about being & staying diversified. As business owners this is the time to draw from past experience and see what you can do with it to make money. If your finances are such that your personal economy won't be effected, it doesn't really matter, but if you depend on a paycheck it's time to act. I realize a lot of areas are still solid and pray they stay that way. Just don't get caught with your pants down like it hit us here, work (track homes) literally stopped overnight it seems.

Also, if things do turn in your area, be ready to deal with the companies and customers that feel they need your money more than you do, it's truly amazing what people will do to keep what you have earned. Wishing best for everyone.

Gravel Rat
01-21-2008, 12:55 AM
Another Forestry company my familly has done business with has laid all its guys off so now you have 400 guys unemployed. Unless the forestry work picks up they are done gone out of business.

To put it in perspective you have 400 guys out of work and each worker that makes a average 5200 dollars a month that is 2 million dollars a month approx in wages which accounts for lots of tax money for the gov't.

Yup B.C.s ecomomy is doing good when the gov't is loosing millions in income tax every month when the forestry companies go down.

Then there is 2 plywood mills in the Interior of B.C. shutting down for good another 450 people loosing their jobs perminantly.

janb
01-21-2008, 01:51 AM
Another Forestry company my familly has done business with has laid all its guys off so now you have 400 guys unemployed. Unless the forestry work picks up they are done gone out of business.

To put it in perspective you have 400 guys out of work and each worker that makes a average 5200 dollars a month that is 2 million dollars a month approx in wages which accounts for lots of tax money for the gov't.

Yup B.C.s economy is doing good when the gov't is loosing millions in income tax every month when the forestry companies go down.

Then there is 2 plywood mills in the Interior of B.C. shutting down for good another 450 people loosing their jobs perminantly.

Many of our WA state mills went that route in the 1980's when we lost our production to Canada, then lost many or our stick (construction) lumber to Canada with NAFTA, the mill workers are still starving, while their wives work in the local greasy spoon for grocery money, as we watch the bulk logs leave port headed for cheaper mills. The loggers have been busy during the current administration, but the party's nearly over. The PNW blow down in Dec 2007 has left over a billion board ft of lumber to haul out of the forest, which won't help the BC market in the near term. Time to look for another gig. :walking:

Gravel Rat
01-21-2008, 02:25 AM
There isn't much choices for work especially when Forestry jobs are one of the higher paid jobs. A hoe operator working for a Forestry company is making minimum 25 bucks per hour. The construction boom is fading quickly once thats done then it will be really rough.

The 2010 Olympics is nothing but bad news for B.C. it is going to put B.C. so far into the hole tax payers will be paying off the huge debt for the next 20 years just like what happened in Quebec.

I'am glad I didn't make the choice of quiting the gov't job because when people are suffering from no employement I will be working.

When the B.C. gov't looses all the income tax they collect from Forestry workers and other resource industry workers that will really hurt the B.C. economy. With 20,000 jobs lost so far in the forestry it is only getting worse.

It is pretty hard to be positive when the Provincial gov't doesn't give chit about people loosing their jobs.

bobbyg18
01-22-2008, 08:28 PM
i too am worried about this upcoming year also...last fall was very slow compare to the year before...most of it comes down to real estate and people just arent spending like they were over the last few yrs...

it was so slow that im in the process of diversifying and focusing not entirely on excavation jobs this upcoming year...hopefully ill have enough jobs to cover my equipment each month...

im buying some bank owned multi family houses, fixing em up and renting them out...prices have gone down so much in some areas of Mass its unbelieveable...it finally makes sense again on a monthly profit basis...

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 11:37 PM
You watch the news and what is happening south of the boarder it doesn't sound good.

As for B.C. and its economy who knows what is going to happen. It has slowed down in the area I live which covers a large area of the coast. The realestate market has cooled off. House sales right now have dropped way off. New construction has dropped way down. Used to see building supplies trucked to the area in super B loads 2-3 times a week it has dropped down to 1 a week.

bobcat_ron
01-23-2008, 11:32 AM
I'm not too worried about this whole up coming doom and gloom, 90% of my work and my bro's is Agriculture based, the rest of it is just weekend warrior crap and the odd utility service crap.
My Dad however is running around like a headless chicken with all the investments he's got and we now have a rather dark nick-name for him; the "million Dollar man" due to some rather bad spending habits from the last "economic downturn".

Scag48
01-23-2008, 03:21 PM
Thankfully I went union and will be working on state funded jobs, more than likely. Highway and large commercial work will always be going on, I suppose I'll be okay. I'm sure there will be time I will be on the out of work list, but I think I'm better off in the union. Commercial work continues to push on, some housing work is still going on as well but it's all high end. The amount of houses for sale here isn't skyrocketing, but there is enough on the market to trump the benefits of building a new house. Renovation work is super busy, some of those who were thinking of trading up have decided to remodel instead.

Folks are freaking out, everyone thinks we're in a recession and we aren't. Technically a recession is defined as 6 months of declining economy, we've really only been in this decline for about a month, far from a recession yet. The media doesn't help, they keep hyping it up, almost like they want everyone to believe we're totally screwed. I don't watch much news on TV, it's all bad news and that's all anyone needs to put their head between their legs and, well you know the rest.

Where I grew up, apples were the big money maker, EVERYONE had an orchard and times were good. Those days are over. In the valley I grew up in, almost 80% of the orchards that were in place 10 years ago are no longer in production. With the falling prices of apples and everyone and their mother from Seattle wanting to buy land that has a view, it makes no sense to farm anymore.

tallrick
01-23-2008, 04:02 PM
Wish land was that cheap around here. We pay that much a year in taxes for 3 acres and the house. :D Might concider staying here if that was the case. We haven't seen $5K an acre since back in the '70s. We sold an acre and a half lot here for $150K last year and the county is taxing another as if it was worth $200K.

Miami-Dade County is the craziest place on earth. Property that was 5,000 an acre in 1975 was 25,000 an acre in 1990 and was 500,000 an acre in 2005. The same worn-out rocky land increasing 100 times in price in three decades. And you get taxed 2% on the "value" every year unless ag exempt. Until 2000 you could buy land 3 counties up for 2,000.00 an acre but it went up 10X since then. I am hoping for a hard depression to get those prices back to reasonable levels.

Fieldman12
01-23-2008, 07:03 PM
Maybe your area is different Scagg but around here and from watching the stock market every day and playing since I was little I noticed all of this start to slowly happen when 9-11 hit and to this day we have never recovered. It has slowly been a down hill trend. Another thing I notice in my area jobs are paying less than they was five years ago. The pay scale is not keeping up with inflation by any means.

Gravel Rat
01-23-2008, 09:29 PM
Lots of jobs here if you want to work for minimum wage. When house rent ranges from 650 being the cheapest to 1200 being the most common per month rent.

A gov't employee like myself has no hope in h--- buying a house the bank just laughs at you. I just was able to get a loan for 34,000 dollars my annual income was just enough.