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AWJ Services
01-18-2008, 03:45 PM
Well I am out tire kicking again.LOL
With the slow down in the construction Industry here there is alot of used iron available.
I found a KX 161 with angle blade ,cab,ac and heat,hyd thumb,quick attach,36,24, 18 buckets with around 800 hours in almost perfect condition.
It is one off of a year lease from a power company.

This unit new here will run 60k plus.
They priced it out at 49k drive out.

Roughly 15k savings.Is this a great deal or okay deal?
Opinions?

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 04:20 PM
I'm not going to comment too much on "Crap-o-bota", but at least 3 people/companies that I know of have gotten rid of their 1 & 2 year old machines in favour of another Japanese machine known as "Takeuchi".

Reason why; "Crap-o-bota" kept falling apart in some areas, not going into specifics, but they are in the areas where Takeuchi is better built.

ksss
01-18-2008, 05:05 PM
The 60K is about what I paid for my TK new with a coupler and thumb, cab, AC but no angle blade. I would think that you should see more depreciation for 800 hours even if it is in near new condition. If you could get it into the low 40's that would likely be a good deal.

I have never run a Kubota, people on here speak highly of them.

The TK is a good excavator as well. The 153 will do a lot of work.

AWJ Services
01-18-2008, 05:49 PM
There are no 153 used machines I can find.
I found a TB145 thats nice as well.

That price was with tax and the coupler and buckets are new as well as the thumb.
I have a bench mark of usually saving a third on a near new machine(good shape,low hours) over new and once they pass 1000 hours it needs to be near half of new value.
Thats what I consider a good deal.

Low 40's would make it more interesting.


I would like to here Cat_Ron's reasons behind the Crap o Bota comments.

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 07:34 PM
Much less weight, less weight means weaker parts of the boomand or the rest of the machine, one machine I heard of cracked at the base of the boom right at the swing boom mechanism, almost completely sheared off after a second "minor" impact a year later, Crap-o-bota Warranty wouldn't cover the cost of repairs due to their claim that the crack(s) were from excessive "abuse".

I find they are much like Bobcat excavators, a lot of bark (higher numbers on the spec sheets vs. the competition) but very little bite (power where and when it's needed)

Other complaints are very little drive power when using functions at the same time and odd vibrations when pulling with the boom, and their cabs are just crap, they fall apart quickly and sometimes feel like they should be better sealed.

Ausman
01-18-2008, 07:45 PM
There are around 40 KX161's in and around the area that i am in and to my knowledge i have not heard of any of these complaints, we repair and do warranty for kubota amongst others and i would not get wealthy fixing kubota excavators. To date i have not needed to repair one apart from servicing and wear parts. Some have 4000hrs.

coopers
01-18-2008, 08:17 PM
When I worked for a rental company a while ago all we had was Kubota. We NEVER had cracks in our booms, and never had cab problems. We still had the old 121-2's (and the new 121-3's) and didn't have any problems. I find it interesting on bobcat_ron's comments. The only time we had anything break on a kubota was due to serious excessive force on the machine and an idiot behind the controls. We never had mechanical problems either. Like Ausman said, a person can't get wealthy fixing Kubota trackhoes. I personally like the "lighter" feel of the kubota's because to me, excessive weight in the a** end is quite annoying. That's one thing I noticed about bobcat is they were so sluggish because they seemed underpowered to deal with all the steal they are made out of. But Kubota's machines are not that much lighter than the class they are in, all machines vary somewhat, otherwise they couldn't compare a 9300lbs 121 with other similar sizes or a 11000lbs 161 with other excavators.

I also don't believe that any new excavator, no matter the brand would crack so severely that the hoe would almost fall off unless someone is beating concrete up rather than using a breaker. I ditto Kubota's comments that it sounds like excessive force. The only thing I will agree on is Kubota needs to work on allowing the thumb or blade to be used while using another part of the machine. It is more sluggish than it should be.

Blake
WA

Gravel Rat
01-19-2008, 07:17 PM
One of the contractors in the area is on his 3rd Kubota 161 and they well worked non of them have had the problems Ron meantioned. The current Kubota the contractor has now is time for replacement. The machine has high hours now.

qps
01-19-2008, 09:11 PM
Funny...even my CAT salesman gave Kubota the highest marks...even against his own CAT product...

Gravel Rat
01-19-2008, 10:29 PM
A question for Ron who carries Takeuchi equipment in B.C. now ?

Before it always was one company in Alberta. With Kubota, Avenue Farm equipment sell the most around here.

Before Conneco bought out Terra Tech (Komatsu) the Terra Tech reps were in the area trying to push Komatsu excavators.

AWJ Services
01-19-2008, 11:28 PM
I really have no problem buying a Kubota.
I would rather have a Takeuchi.

I however am looking for a deal.
Just wanting peoples opinions on when they think a piece of newer equipment becomes a good deal.


Funny...even my CAT salesman gave Kubota the highest marks...even against his own CAT product...

I demoed a 305 and was really disappointed with it's power.
The machine was well built but it just dug like a 7k machine.

ksss
01-20-2008, 01:37 AM
I really have no problem buying a Kubota.
I would rather have a Takeuchi.

I however am looking for a deal.
Just wanting peoples opinions on when they think a piece of newer equipment becomes a good deal.




I demoed a 305 and was really disappointed with it's power.
The machine was well built but it just dug like a 7k machine.

There is that big auction in Florida coming up Kissimmpeeiieee or something like that. It might be worth hitting the day they do the mini ex's. That would not be far for you. I would like to go just to see it. Not usually practical to truck something 7/8's the way across the country, so I have not gone.

AWJ Services
01-20-2008, 10:20 AM
There is that big auction in Florida coming up Kissimmpeeiieee



Do you have a name or any other info?

YardPro
01-20-2008, 10:36 AM
the rental comapy here rents bobcat and kubota mini ex's...
i love the kubota's they run circles around the bobcats. They almost never have any problems with the kubotas. the bobcats are always having issues.

the kubotas are a much smoother, and way more quiet, which is deceiving... sounds and feels like it is lass powerful, but they are equally or more powerful than the comparable bobcat

bobcat_ron
01-20-2008, 12:03 PM
A question for Ron who carries Takeuchi equipment in B.C. now ?

Before it always was one company in Alberta. With Kubota, Avenue Farm equipment sell the most around here.

Before Conneco bought out Terra Tech (Komatsu) the Terra Tech reps were in the area trying to push Komatsu excavators.


Rollins Machinery carries Takeuchi. www.rollinsmachinery.com

They have sold a lot (and I do mean alot) of Tak's to the rental companies that carried Kubota & Bobcat for many years, (they were one of the companies that I brought up in an earlier post) as well as one of the local "mini diggers" I worked with, the sales rep from Rollins told me he got fed up with the Kubota and wanted to try something better and he got hooked. There was one other local company that switched from Kubota to Takeuchi but he didn't want to name names.

I was just at Rollins on Thursday to drop off my demo hammer for a recharge and they gave me the keys to one of the 3.5 ton mini's to see what I thought of the cab compared to the Kubota's, now I got a demo 2.8 ton coming my way in April now, darn nice machines.

qps
01-20-2008, 12:18 PM
I really have no problem buying a Kubota.
I would rather have a Takeuchi.

I however am looking for a deal.
Just wanting peoples opinions on when they think a piece of newer equipment becomes a good deal.




I demoed a 305 and was really disappointed with it's power.
The machine was well built but it just dug like a 7k machine.

I have a C304CR and have been satisfied with its performance, the C304 I tried was a under performer to say the least, I tried a TB53R and was very impressed with it but at the time they did not offer A/C in there cabs and the cab seem alittle cramped for my taste, the new CAT seems to be a good machine so far, plenty of leg room and the A/C is almost to cold....if that's possible....

Fieldman12
01-20-2008, 12:23 PM
Personally I would have never bought a Kubota mini excavator but after being on here and hearing all the good things about them I would own one. Bobcatron there is no doubt that rental companies put machines to the test but often it is way more abuse than any owner operator is going to put it through. I believe in making a machine work but I dont abuse it and expect it to hold together. That was like a while back you where talking about all the issues on the booms of the Deere CTL's. I had never heard of that until the other day. A buddy of mine traded in his 322 Deere for a new 322. Well someone rented the Deere and tore the boom and cylinder all to pieces. I dont know what and how they where picking it up but it was pure abuse. You have to remember allot of guys rent not only because they dont have the machine but also because they dont want to screw there own machine up.They rent because they are not worried about tearing up. Some people could break a crowbar if it was given to them.

bobcat_ron
01-20-2008, 12:31 PM
Personally I would have never bought a Kubota mini excavator but after being on here and hearing all the good things about them I would own one. Bobcatron there is no doubt that rental companies put machines to the test but often it is way more abuse than any owner operator is going to put it through. I believe in making a machine work but I dont abuse it and expect it to hold together. That was like a while back you where talking about all the issues on the booms of the Deere CTL's. I had never heard of that until the other day. A buddy of mine traded in his 322 Deere for a new 322. Well someone rented the Deere and tore the boom and cylinder all to pieces. I dont know what and how they where picking it up but it was pure abuse. You have to remember allot of guys rent not only because they dont have the machine but also because they dont want to screw there own machine up.They rent because they are not worried about tearing up. Some people could break a crowbar if it was given to them.


So that obviously says something right there, if Kubota's can't stand up to the rental use/abuse, then Tak's are a better machine, hell, United rentals has had Tak's for almost 4 years now in my 'hood, and they still are the same machines now.

ksss
01-20-2008, 12:39 PM
Do you have a name or any other info?

http://www.lyonauction.com/?A5W_Sess_ID=47c3f352140148e4a2c1f30d02266b60




This is the auction I was refering to it is a seven day deal. It appears that the excavators are lumped together. I did not see a classification for compact excavator, but I may have missed it. The one day there is like 350 excavators going across the ramp.

AWJ Services
01-20-2008, 12:57 PM
Thanks for the link


I have a C304CR and have been satisfied with its performance, the C304 I tried was a under performer to say the least, I tried a TB53R and was very impressed with it but at the time they did not offer A/C in there cabs and the cab seem alittle cramped for my taste, the new CAT seems to be a good machine so far, plenty of leg room and the A/C is almost to cold....if that's possible....

The unit was a 2005 I think.
The door was a pain for me to get in and out of as well.The cab was fine once I was in it.LOL

I have discused this before but the soil hear is hard clay and is rather tough to dig in.The new Cats spec much better and I have not demoed one yet.

Fieldman12
01-20-2008, 01:49 PM
They may or may not be better. Often dealers switch brands because there getting a better deal also with someone else.

ksss
01-20-2008, 02:08 PM
They may or may not be better. Often dealers switch brands because there getting a better deal also with someone else.


There is something to that. There is a local independent rental company that also is a Kubota dealer. They also rent TK minis as well as their Kubota. I am also with you, I would never have bought a Kubota before being on this site. I have run their older machines and thought they were a major POS. I can see that is not the case currently. Still Kubota has had very little impact locally. Might be the dealers lack of success in moving them rather then a problem with the machine. No matter which site your on the guys that have Kubota generally are very happy with them. That says something to me.

coopers
01-20-2008, 02:43 PM
So that obviously says something right there, if Kubota's can't stand up to the rental use/abuse, then Tak's are a better machine, hell, United rentals has had Tak's for almost 4 years now in my 'hood, and they still are the same machines now.

Not necessarily. I have seen Tak's in worse condition than any Kubota sitting in a hard. We carried our Kubota for 6 plus years so that says something too. When it comes to abuse every machine is going to have a breaking point. Today's machines are built pretty solid, there's no reason for any machine to break except under extreme abuse.

Just out of curiosity, what's the price difference in Tak machines and Kubota? Who's more expensive....?

Blake
WA

bobcat_ron
01-20-2008, 02:48 PM
They are almost the same here, +/- $1000 depending on options, Kubota uses CWS (I think??) for the buckets and thumb and Takeuchi uses Accurate.

Gravel Rat
01-21-2008, 12:37 AM
Thats good to know that Rollins is carrying Takeuchi equipment. I remember they used to be a Ford/New Holland dealer. They used to have a sales yard not too far from my grandparents old place. I think it was Great Northern Way in East Van.

bobcat_ron
01-21-2008, 11:17 AM
Rollins used to sell Hyundai too, but they have slacked off and given up, now it's all Takeuchi, Ford, New Holland, TCM and all the garbage and golf maintenance names. For a while there, they were even an ASV dealership, for about 2 weeks, now Avenue Farm Corp. has got the ASV name now.

This place is just off 56th Ave, off 232nd.

Gravel Rat
01-21-2008, 01:37 PM
I remember Rollins equipment because the highways dept used to buy the Ford tractors with side mount flail mowers for cutting the grass on the roadside. Back when Rollins was on Great Northern Way they always had a yard full of Ford/Newholland tractors. I think they also carried some snow removal equipment too back then. That has to be 15-20 years ago.

As for buckets I would probably stay away from Accurate I have heard so many complaints about the quality. There is a new kid on the block which Wajax is using I think its BMI or something like that I can't remember their name. The loggers have been trying the BMI buckets and they are lasting allot longer. No problems with distorting the lugging or ripping the cheeks out of the bucket.

bobcat_ron
01-21-2008, 01:56 PM
I'm quite fond of Quad buckets instead of Accurate.

Gravel Rat
01-21-2008, 02:22 PM
CWS is a common bucket on most machines. My neighbour has a excavator with Lynn buckets I didn't know who they where till I looked them up and they are a company in North Van.

pd002
01-22-2009, 06:50 PM
I can beat that price by $10,000 on a 2007 161 with angle blade, cab, ac, thumb, rubber tracks coupler and 2 small buckets. Let me know if you are interested.

JDSKIDSTEER
01-22-2009, 07:33 PM
Kubota is my biggest competitor around here. They seem to be good solid machines. I have heard no complaints. When demoing against them I have done well, but they kick but on price. Never see any in line to be worked on at the dealership.

wanabe
01-22-2009, 09:54 PM
I ran the newest 121 kubota for 2 years and had 0 problems with it. Only changed oil and greased it. They are very good machines! I like the feel of the contolls, the power was very good, and it did so much for a mini. I would buy one any time!

mrsops
01-22-2009, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the link




The unit was a 2005 I think.
The door was a pain for me to get in and out of as well.The cab was fine once I was in it.LOL

I have discused this before but the soil hear is hard clay and is rather tough to dig in.The new Cats spec much better and I have not demoed one yet.

Demo the cat 305ccr model you will be very impressed with the digging on that machine

SiteSolutions
01-22-2009, 10:27 PM
Kubotas I've ran seem to be pretty good machines. The dealer JD is referring to has a rental Kubota and a rental Takeuchi; The Kub is smoother and quicker but the Tak seems to have better grunt and feel better anchored.

I know a guy who bought a 161 new and he loves it.

I've had only one bad experience, when the Kub rental unit had a PCV valve or something loose and dripped a little oil on the manifold; I complained that I thought it was worn out and burning oil but the next time I rented it had no such problems. It was either they spilled oil when changing the oil or left the filler cap loose or something like that.

AWJ Services
01-22-2009, 10:49 PM
Kubotas I've ran seem to be pretty good machines. The dealer JD is referring to has a rental Kubota and a rental Takeuchi; The Kub is smoother and quicker but the Tak seems to have better grunt and feel better anchored.

Exactly right.
Kubota has really fast cycle times.
Takeuchi has slower cycle times but what seems like a little more power.
I Use mine for Septic installs so I dig with a 36 inch bucket most of the time.
The soil is all red clay.Our ditches need at least 48 inches(depth) and up to 8 foot to get to good soil.Most systems need at least 200 foot and some up to 300.I like the Kubota.

ksss
01-24-2009, 02:05 PM
I will post pictures of large addition I dug with my TK last week. Pretty impressive for a mini ex.

SinjonAssociates
01-24-2009, 04:59 PM
Here is a local Craigslist posting if you are willing to travel. George

http://denver.craigslist.org/for/1005165389.html

coopers
01-25-2009, 12:16 AM
Here is a local Craigslist posting if you are willing to travel. George

http://denver.craigslist.org/for/1005165389.html

That's a good price for low hours!

SinjonAssociates
01-25-2009, 12:44 AM
I think its the local New Holland/Kubota dealership. George