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supercuts
01-18-2008, 06:09 PM
im debating back and forth about buying a 275gal fuel tank with an electric pump and have my road diesel delivered to my house. i have 3 diesels and im tired of waiting at the gas station to get into the diesel pump which is located in the middle of 2 gas pumps and of course its always blocked. its even worse when its going to snow, i have to take both trucks downtown to fill them up for plowing.

so, i was going to get a 275 gal tank and put it in the garage to fill the trucks. right now diesel fuel is about 5 cents cheaper delivered to my house than at the gas station. im not too concerned with saving a few cents a gallon as much as the time wasted and the hassle of keeping the trucks full and planning my day around that. this is really just for the convenience.

brand new tank about $300, brand new pump/hoses/nozzle about $400, ebay pumps about $200ish. anyone else have a setup like this?? any thoughts or anything im forgetting??

Landrus2
01-18-2008, 06:24 PM
Hold on did you say garage:drinkup:

Dirt Digger2
01-18-2008, 06:30 PM
don't put it in your garage...i believe it has to be in a "secure site"...im not sure if this is true for the smaller tanks but we have two 750 gallon tanks that are in a concrete box incase they leak.

but i think you should...even if you are paying a little extra money for the fuel which you wont be...you are still saving money by not paying your guys to sit in line at the gas station

IA_James
01-18-2008, 07:01 PM
Your Department of Natural Resources might have something to say about that, I'm pretty sure some kind of spill containment set up will be required. Would you go through the whole 275 gallons in about a month? Diesel fuel doesn't like being left sitting for long periods.

supercuts
01-18-2008, 07:18 PM
ok, to start it would be a home heating fuel tank (275 gal), the same tank id be using if i had oil heat in my garage. if it was outside i think then i would need the cement containment. as far as going through all of it, i dont ahve to fill it, i can get 150 gallons. i would go through that within a month.

Birdjr
01-18-2008, 07:29 PM
A few of my friends have their own oil company's and deliver to landscapers. They gave the landscapers the tank for free as long as they buy their diesel thru them.

AintNoFun
01-18-2008, 07:50 PM
i have a 350 for offroad diesel and it was one of the greatest things i bought... as soon as i buy a new piece of property i'd probably get like a 1000 for the trucks.. liek u said the time u save from having guys bs at the gas station is the huge savings... plus its a lil easier on bookkeeping to pay once a month for fuel rather than 5 different trucks every week...

zedosix
01-18-2008, 08:09 PM
I have two at my shop for that very reason. I don't like paying for the guys cigarettes and coffee when they pay for their fuel. They fill up at the shop in the morning or night, its cheaper and I rent the tanks for 9 dollars a month. Ministry has a say on where they are located. Not within 50 metres of ditches something like that.

GravelyNut
01-19-2008, 11:49 AM
im debating back and forth about buying a 275gal fuel tank with an electric pump and have my road diesel delivered to my house. i have 3 diesels and im tired of waiting at the gas station to get into the diesel pump which is located in the middle of 2 gas pumps and of course its always blocked. its even worse when its going to snow, i have to take both trucks downtown to fill them up for plowing.

so, i was going to get a 275 gal tank and put it in the garage to fill the trucks. right now diesel fuel is about 5 cents cheaper delivered to my house than at the gas station. im not too concerned with saving a few cents a gallon as much as the time wasted and the hassle of keeping the trucks full and planning my day around that. this is really just for the convenience.

brand new tank about $300, brand new pump/hoses/nozzle about $400, ebay pumps about $200ish. anyone else have a setup like this?? any thoughts or anything im forgetting??
Check with your state and local fire inspector first.
Wouldn't be legal most places as it is a fire hazard. Indoors requires a fire rated tank sometimes. You also would have to have a containment area inside equal to the tank volume. Outdoors you either have to have a containment area that is roofed but open sided or a double wall tank if exposed. http://www.convault.com/ if you want one contained in concrete. These stop bullets also. :D

supercuts
01-19-2008, 02:00 PM
Check with your state and local fire inspector first.
Wouldn't be legal most places as it is a fire hazard. Indoors requires a fire rated tank sometimes. You also would have to have a containment area inside equal to the tank volume. Outdoors you either have to have a containment area that is roofed but open sided or a double wall tank if exposed. http://www.convault.com/ if you want one contained in concrete. These stop bullets also. :D

again, this is home heating fuel, dyed a different color, in a home fuel tank. i deliver home fuel oil, they are commonly outside, free standing, as well as in garages and basements, no containment tank. im not too worried about that aspect.

Gravel Rat
01-19-2008, 06:12 PM
You are going to pay a little bit for the tank but get a double walled tank that has vacuum monitor and you will be covered. Here in B.C. we are allowed 500 gallons (imperial) on residential/commercial property.

Keep in mind how much diesel you go through in a month so you don't get a tank too large that you will get stagnant fuel.

If you want to use a stove oil tank buy a brandnew one they are not that expensive then you may want to build a better stand for them. Those little pipe legs are not that strong.

tcalb2
01-20-2008, 08:37 AM
I work parttime for an excavation contractor and he has the same setup your thinking about doing. Only he has two tanks. One for -on road- and one for -off road- diesel. Seems to work out well for him. Saves alot of time and money in my opinion. Good luck.

topsites
01-20-2008, 09:32 AM
Perhaps you should consider some type of fleet or commercial fuel network first, that's what I'm on, never a line like you speak of (ok sometimes, but very unusual). Not sure what you'd have in CT but here in VA we have Watchcard, which is a member of CFN (or maybe it's the other way around).

Likely the same folks who would deliver your diesel might be able to point you in this direction?

Anyhow it really eliminates the gas station bs, I am sure every location has diesel too (4 in my county).
One bill a month, all itemized and narrowed down, even does your mpg tracking for you.

Fordsuvparts
01-20-2008, 10:18 AM
I am pretty sure that you can't just put a large tank like that on you residence with out a containment system. Of course that is if you are legal, you sound like you are not, so go for it, and i hope you don't forget to turn the pump off. I bet your homeowners ins would love to hear what you plan to do.

supercuts
01-20-2008, 09:23 PM
I am pretty sure that you can't just put a large tank like that on you residence with out a containment system. Of course that is if you are legal, you sound like you are not, so go for it, and i hope you don't forget to turn the pump off. I bet your homeowners ins would love to hear what you plan to do.

im very confused with these comments. i dont see how it would be illegal although i look into it now due to all the speculation. if it put an oil furnace in my garage, i would be buying the same tank and put the same fuel in it(simply dyed blue instead of red). you dont need to contain home fuel tanks inside a building, i deliver to hundreds of houses this way. perhaps laws are different if other states. im delivering to brand new 275gal tanks just put in outside of houses for home fuel.

Fordsuvparts
01-20-2008, 10:28 PM
First off I hope I did not sound like a prick, when i responded. If you were using the diesel fuel to heat your home it would be different, but i believe that in order to have that amount of diesel fuel on your property, I think that you have to have a containment system, in case of a spill or leak. Your fuel supplier should be able to clear up this. I am not sure but i had a real problem trying to get a 500 gallon tank filled. They would not fill it because if it leaked i had no way to contain the spilled fuel. I believe that there is a limit, if like you said you only filled it half way up it might work. Either way let me know what you find out.

GravelyNut
01-21-2008, 08:47 AM
First off I hope I did not sound like a prick, when i responded. If you were using the diesel fuel to heat your home it would be different, but i believe that in order to have that amount of diesel fuel on your property, I think that you have to have a containment system, in case of a spill or leak. Your fuel supplier should be able to clear up this. I am not sure but i had a real problem trying to get a 500 gallon tank filled. They would not fill it because if it leaked i had no way to contain the spilled fuel. I believe that there is a limit, if like you said you only filled it half way up it might work. Either way let me know what you find out.


After checking CT's websites, it seems they are far behind on the fuel tank rules.

Florida, on the other hand is very strict about spills and spill containment.

supercuts
01-21-2008, 09:47 AM
After checking CT's websites, it seems they are far behind on the fuel tank rules.

Florida, on the other hand is very strict about spills and spill containment.

i had no idea other states were so strict. i deliver oil to houses every day, most are 275gal tanks, many others are 330, 550, and a few 1000 gal tanks. some of the 550 & 1000 gal are metal tanks are in ground, no containment. i know your not allowed to put them inground like that anymore but existing tanks are all grandfathered in. sorry if i came across negative, i just couldnt figure what all the comments about me not trying to be legal was about.

Gravel Rat
01-21-2008, 02:24 PM
For us a 500 imperial gallon tank was the largest single walled tank you could have on your property. Now if you replace the tank it has to be a double walled tank. A stove oil tank is still single wall but you can only use a stove oil tank for 10 years.

The rules for stove oil is different than fuel transfer like filling up trucks etc.

There is so much legal BS now you should get the most up to date rules for your area.

Leaking inground stove oil tanks is a license to steal. The regulators make the people to believe that they have major enviromental damage now they have to excavate the soil and so on. Luckly around here not many stove oil tanks were buried. Lots of them were in basements which is a real pain in the azz to get out. One place I hauled away 5 stove oil tanks I forget the size but I think they were 200 gallons each. Then the homeowner had a 300 gallon steel tank. They had enough stove oil storage to last a year because they used to get stove oil for free.

Here is what is common here

www.tidytanks.com/farmtank.htm

mike lane lawn care
01-21-2008, 02:52 PM
our school had an 8,000 gallon diesel tank in the back of the school, it is all concrete enclosed and surrounded by a very tall fence. it is used to power the generator and heating system in the event of a power failure.

GravelyNut
01-22-2008, 09:22 AM
i had no idea other states were so strict. i deliver oil to houses every day, most are 275gal tanks, many others are 330, 550, and a few 1000 gal tanks. some of the 550 & 1000 gal are metal tanks are in ground, no containment. i know your not allowed to put them inground like that anymore but existing tanks are all grandfathered in. sorry if i came across negative, i just couldnt figure what all the comments about me not trying to be legal was about.
I checked your states rules as best I could. For Fuel oil it looks like you could have up to 2100 gallons on site. EEK! If gasoline then the rules drop to 250.


We have a problem with fuel in the water around here as ground water is only 4 to 6 ft down. And the ground is 1/5th porous. We have to have all >250 stationary tanks as double walled or contained as a result. Including ones inside of a building. Fuel lines if underground must also be double wall fibreglass housed and monitored. Also must have monitoring wells. Including one right in front of any containment drains. We have to pull a well sample once a month and check the monitoring system at the same time. Once a year the county inspects the books, tanks, State permits, and wells. Records must be kept for 3 years. Anything wrong get you 30 days to fix. If you spill more than 1 qt of fuel, it has to be reported. Fuel in the well sample gets you a fine.

naughty62
01-23-2008, 08:21 AM
bolt down a 110 gal transfer tank in the back of a truck. Shop around for best deal on fuel cards. quality electric pump .Inline fuse with quick coupler.Our shell station has the best thing going plus they open at 5 in the morning

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
01-23-2008, 05:35 PM
What is the diffence between off road diesel and on road. Does one hurt the components of the other. Can you use off road diesel in your truck or on road diesel in equipment? I know one is low sulfur, but what would keep you from getting the cheaper off road diesel put into a transfer tank and using it for your truck? How would anyone know

snoope
01-23-2008, 08:14 PM
Put pencil to paper.......price out the "transfer tank" for your truck with everything included;tank, hoses.nozzle ,power cord and the Haz-mat #s sticker ( yes I said everything)...Now price out a "home tank" with all of the accessories too....

Once that is done,price fuel from a dealer and check their delivery schedules..Can they deliver on short notice before every storm or will you need to give them some notice??

Now price the outside stations to see if anyone will give you a "Bulk rate" using their company card at only their stations for the "transfer tank"and your equipment ,including the trucks.....

Last item, you get CAUGHT with off road fuel in a on-road vehicle :laugh: :hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:...Simple test can

be done by locals,feds and the "Tax man"....Dip your tanks and if the color is wrong:waving: $$$$$$$$$$$.......

Snoope

lawnman456
01-23-2008, 08:17 PM
it's called taxes

on road you need to be tax more. off road alot less tax.

if you get caught with off road diesel in your on road truck, (dyed red) you will get a huge fine. more than the taxes you would of saved

supercuts
01-23-2008, 08:31 PM
Once that is done,price fuel from a dealer and check their delivery schedules..Can they deliver on short notice before every storm or will you need to give them some notice??

Now price the outside stations to see if anyone will give you a "Bulk rate" using their company card at only their stations for the "transfer tank"and your equipment ,including the trucks.....
Snoope

well, i thought about the transfer tank in the truck but dont want to waste bed space. i can get a setup at home w/brand new 275gal tank and used pump for $500 all set ready to go. about that if not more for tank for truck used. as far as delivery, anytime i need. i work for the company and if it came down to it, i stop in and grab the truck and make the deliverty myself.

as far as off road fuel, its simpy the same fuel dyed a different color. road fuel has the taxes built in. i wouldnt use it for several reasons including the fines, but mostly because the warrentee on my truck would be void. thats the first thing they check.

Greybeard
01-23-2008, 08:32 PM
I rent some shop space from an excavating contractor. They have 2 275 gallon tanks with electric pumps - one for off-road diesel, the other for highway (taxed). This fall they learned that they can't get deliveries of highway diesel any more, because it can't be delivered in any tank that also carries the red stuff. It's the new low-sulfur federal regs. Nobody around here will dedicate an entire tank truck just to highway diesel deliveries. The fuel company also told them that the off-road fuel is going to change, with lower sulfur levels, so you can't use home heating oil anymore in the equipment.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
01-23-2008, 08:36 PM
here is the math i did on the home set up. if you are only saving around 5 cents a gallon and the start up is at least $500, then you would have to use 14,000 gallons of your own gas to break even and most likely there will be more cost associated with it along the way that will push that to a closer 20,000 gallons. I think I would do a fuel man card that is limited to gas only and roll with it.

supercuts
01-24-2008, 06:41 PM
here is the math i did on the home set up. if you are only saving around 5 cents a gallon and the start up is at least $500, then you would have to use 14,000 gallons of your own gas to break even and most likely there will be more cost associated with it along the way that will push that to a closer 20,000 gallons. I think I would do a fuel man card that is limited to gas only and roll with it.

i was thinking more along the lines of paying 2 guys to sit/drive time to the station to fill different trucks. 2 guys, 20min each, even 2x a week is an 1 1/2 hr pay, so an extra $22 a week, $88 a month. 5 1/2 months would pay for the tank on salary alone.

not to mention, the opportunity cost, we could do 2 $40 lawns in that time, $80 worth, 2x a week is $160/week + the $22 saved not at the station is $182 a week, taht is $728 a month.

everything i do i try and figure how to save a much time as i can to optimize efficiency. $728 a month is a lot of lost income/savings. efficiency is one reason why i got the enclosed trailer, no more 15 minutes in the morning loading, and 15 minutes in the afternoon unloading all the equiptment. 1/2hr a day, 2 1/2 a week, 10hrs a month savings, paid for the trailer quick.

this was the whole point to considering this tank, to save time. with 3 diesels, there are many times we are at a job and need to wait for the truck load of mulch, or the leaf truck to return because its out fueling up. not sure when, but im sure ill be getting a tank at some point.