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allinearth
01-18-2008, 09:07 PM
Hope it works. Should be before and after VTS.:weightlifter:

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 10:03 PM
Wow, that's some rust you got on that VTS!!

But it actually blends in with the Case paint!

allinearth
01-18-2008, 10:14 PM
Just suface rust. Looks worse in the pic than it is. Maybe just from the reflection of that beautiful orange paint.:usflag: Those tracks sure were glad to be off that yellow pos! Notice the 1845 in the background. The guys chose that to put the tracks on the 440 instead of the cat.

KRtraxx
01-18-2008, 10:22 PM
Yes the paint on the VTS is not that great.The good thing about it is that you can make one look good in no time if you so desire.If they used powder coat it wouldnt be that easy.
I have sold quite a few of these and a word of advise on the 70XT and the 440 is that some guys had a few axle problems with the VTS on these 2 models.Specially the 18" sets..For some reason Case did not put as large of axles on these as the rest of their 80HP machines,and some axles have broke.Loegering is aware of the issue,and has been directing the customers towards the smaller and lighter 15" sets.If you do happen to have an issue with the axles go down to your Case dealer and get yourself an axle assembly from an 85XT.This will solve the problem permanently since the axles are big the full length of the shaft and arent machined down like the 440 ones are.Lets hope its not an issue for you Earthworker.But if you do at least you know the answer now.You will be amazed at what you can do with those on that unit.Hope you enjoy them and they make you some bucks...

Construct'O
01-18-2008, 10:23 PM
My junk dialup connection doesn't want to load your pictures so i'll have to take Ron's word on the rust.:confused:

Maybe tomorrow they will show up when i have more time to go and read while they load.

Thanks for sharing even if i can't see them.Maybe KSSS will get his pictures posted on here soon.Good luck!!!!!!!! Rust and all:):usflag:

allinearth
01-18-2008, 10:33 PM
Got 3yr or 3000 hrs warranty on drive train to find out if I will have axle prob. I am assuming drive train includes axles but I did not check. I am not taking them off now, too hard to get them on. Hey krtraxx, do you know if the corner of the fender should be trimmed? Looks awful close to rubbing.

KRtraxx
01-18-2008, 10:47 PM
Yes Earthworker some guy have trimmed that corner a bit for some clearance.It shouldnt take much.I'm not sure about Cases policy as far as covering the axles in a situation like this..I would hope they would.
Trust me you are NOT going to want to take these off once you see what is possible with them.With the axle torque the 440 puts out you will be surprized to say the least.Looking down the road,if/when you have to replace your track bands the new ones come with a little less aggressive tread and will ride a bit better due to less vibration on hard ground.The rest of the UC has been bullet proof..Be aware that the original track bands are of a harder compound and WILL show cracking as the hours go by.Dont worry about it.They will still run as long or longer than anybody elses will,with no derailing and are less money to replace to boot..

dozerman21
01-18-2008, 10:58 PM
Earthworker- Nice machine!:drinkup: Out of curiosity, did you consider a 440CT if you're planning on leaving the tracks on? Was the 440CT much more?

KRtraxx- When those are ran in heavy mud, do they pack in and bogg machines down? It looks like they could be a nightmare to clean out.

What's the average life span that you've seen out of the bands? Also, how much are the VTS kits selling for now (ballpark). The last time I checked they were around 13, 14K for the wider tracks.

allinearth
01-18-2008, 10:58 PM
While testing them at the shop today I noticed that I could spin the tracks much easier than I could with the cat. I figured it was because of less weight on the machine and slightly frozen ground. Could be the added torque. Seemed like a beast in what little time I was on it.

bobcat_ron
01-18-2008, 11:02 PM
You can always switch to the Mclaren or AirSoft(??) tracks to get a smoother ride on the VTS.

allinearth
01-18-2008, 11:03 PM
Dozer man, I already had the VTS tracks. Just didn't like them on a Cat 242 I have. So a dedicated track machine was not even a consideration. Clean out isn' bad at all as long as you don't let mud dry or freeze.

ksss
01-19-2008, 05:20 AM
Yes the paint on the VTS is not that great.The good thing about it is that you can make one look good in no time if you so desire.If they used powder coat it wouldnt be that easy.
I have sold quite a few of these and a word of advise on the 70XT and the 440 is that some guys had a few axle problems with the VTS on these 2 models.Specially the 18" sets..For some reason Case did not put as large of axles on these as the rest of their 80HP machines,and some axles have broke.Loegering is aware of the issue,and has been directing the customers towards the smaller and lighter 15" sets.If you do happen to have an issue with the axles go down to your Case dealer and get yourself an axle assembly from an 85XT.This will solve the problem permanently since the axles are big the full length of the shaft and arent machined down like the 440 ones are.Lets hope its not an issue for you Earthworker.But if you do at least you know the answer now.You will be amazed at what you can do with those on that unit.Hope you enjoy them and they make you some bucks...


I am going to see if I can't get an answer on the 440 axle being tappered down. I spoke with CASE engineering in Witchita and was told they were not aware of any problems. Granted he followed up by saying that is not to say there is not any. The amount of power that the 440 generates was a concern for me before I had heard of any issues. I have considered getting a 430 to run the VTS just for that reason. Now that I know the solution I doubt I will. It actually might be a good preventive measure (Winter project).

I would not bring a machine into a CASE dealer with the VTS on expect them to pickup the tab for an axle. Unless you trust the Service Manager to look past the VTS. I have only heard of one guy snapping an axle on a 70XT. That machine was being lowered into a basement to finish out the floor. The machine doing the dropping was a CAT wheel loader 3 yard machine. The concrete wall gave way and the wall and the loader fell on the skid steer. I saw the photo and it looked bad. The wall and loader were held up by the skid steer which was dropped from 9 feet above ground when the wall let go. It was thought to be mostly undamaged surprisingly. About 500 hours later they replaced an axle it had apparently not fared as well as they initially thought. The axle had stress cracks in it. The powertrain warranty would cover an axle but with the VTS that I don't know for sure. The axle should not be tapered on that machine especially. I am almost positive that the 70XT and the 440 have more wheel torque than does an 85XT/445. Granted they have a lower ROC than does the 445 but why bother making to different axles? I will try and find an answer to that.

KRtraxx
01-19-2008, 09:52 AM
Earthworker- Nice machine!:drinkup: Out of curiosity, did you consider a 440CT if you're planning on leaving the tracks on? Was the 440CT much more?

KRtraxx- When those are ran in heavy mud, do they pack in and bogg machines down? It looks like they could be a nightmare to clean out.

What's the average life span that you've seen out of the bands? Also, how much are the VTS kits selling for now (ballpark). The last time I checked they were around 13, 14K for the wider tracks.

Yes they will collect some mud in sloppy conditions.But not anymore than most other track machines out there.Bogging is not an issue from what I have seen.Clean out is not that bad.Well at least not as hard as cleaning out an ASV RC100.Those are a real pain to get clean.Specially in clay conds when it packs in around the mid rollers...With the VTS you can at least get to what you want cleaned.
As far as track band life? Boy that can be all over the board just like any other track machine.I would guess that an AVERAGE would be somewhere in the 1200hr.range. Have seen some go way longer and some go way shorter in sharp rock or abusive situations.The good part is that in general the track bands are less money than most out there..
The pricing has gone up some as of jan.1 on these units.List price for the 18" set is now 15,600. 15" is 13,900 12"is 13,400.
Granted nobody is charging list from what I have seen.Most 18" are going somewhere between the 13 to 14,500 area. There are some of the demoed or used sets around which you can still get for less than that.The demo sets will still have full 1 year warranty.And Loegering has been excellent taking cars of any track band issues...Any questions feel free to ask.or PM me.

KRtraxx
01-19-2008, 10:23 AM
I am going to see if I can't get an answer on the 440 axle being tappered down. I spoke with CASE engineering in Witchita and was told they were not aware of any problems. Granted he followed up by saying that is not to say there is not any. The amount of power that the 440 generates was a concern for me before I had heard of any issues. I have considered getting a 430 to run the VTS just for that reason. Now that I know the solution I doubt I will. It actually might be a good preventive measure (Winter project).

I would not bring a machine into a CASE dealer with the VTS on expect them to pickup the tab for an axle. Unless you trust the Service Manager to look past the VTS. I have only heard of one guy snapping an axle on a 70XT. That machine was being lowered into a basement to finish out the floor. The machine doing the dropping was a CAT wheel loader 3 yard machine. The concrete wall gave way and the wall and the loader fell on the skid steer. I saw the photo and it looked bad. The wall and loader were held up by the skid steer which was dropped from 9 feet above ground when the wall let go. It was thought to be mostly undamaged surprisingly. About 500 hours later they replaced an axle it had apparently not fared as well as they initially thought. The axle had stress cracks in it. The powertrain warranty would cover an axle but with the VTS that I don't know for sure. The axle should not be tapered on that machine especially. I am almost positive that the 70XT and the 440 have more wheel torque than does an 85XT/445. Granted they have a lower ROC than does the 445 but why bother making to different axles? I will try and find an answer to that.

Ksss Yea your right I would change the axles before I traded for a 435.The 440 definately is a handier machine I think and the 4 cyl. engine instead of the 3 is quieter and smoother.It is surprizing to me though that the specs show the 440 has 4633#axle torque and the 435 shows 5148# even though the 435 has 10 less net HP.Didnt notice that till now.Am not sure why it feels the opposite to me.A VTS gets all your power to the ground so its easier to tell what you really have.
By the way the 445 has 5920# of axle torque..Another surprize to me..Live and learn I guess..:)
On a side note a good friend of mine had a 2 hour lunch with one of the Case skid engineers.My friend tried to plead his point that the 440 needed the same axles as the 445.And if Case would only make ONE axle for all those size machines their costs would go down.He listened but I dont think Case is yet seeing how popular the VTS is becoming.He brought up that the bean counters would have a hard time with it but he would present it.That tells me that Case DOES know the axle is smaller I would think...The part that amazes me is that the part they need is right on the shelf....85/445 axles..end of possible problem,period..Case always promotes their weight and tough built machines.and for good reason..I hope they are listening..
If you call Loegering they will say they dont recommend the 18" set on the 440 without changing the axles at this time..That is the ONLY model Loegering has had any axle issues with..

KRtraxx
01-19-2008, 10:36 AM
While testing them at the shop today I noticed that I could spin the tracks much easier than I could with the cat. I figured it was because of less weight on the machine and slightly frozen ground. Could be the added torque. Seemed like a beast in what little time I was on it.

Earthworker I am surprized someone sold you an 18" set for the Cat 242. Thats really not enough HP to make good use of an 18" set.Not sure what the wheel torque is on a Cat 242(not even Cat will tell us) but its suffice to say its way less than the 80+ HP your 440 has.Am not sure why Cat doesnt print wheel torque numbers.Used to sell them and even then we didnt have numbers to present the customer.I would guess it might have something to do with the anti-stall and them claiming how they get power to the ground is different than the competitors..

dozerman21
01-19-2008, 12:39 PM
KRtraxx- Nice info!:drinkup:

One more question on the VTS... How long does it usually take to put the tracks on, and take them off? Can 1 person do it or do you need help? I guess that's two questions... That's all I have for now.:usflag:

allinearth
01-19-2008, 04:49 PM
It takes 2 people to put the tracks on. I suppose maybe 1 could do it but it would be very difficult. Really need another machine to lift the tracks in place and one on the ground directing. Someone probably has a system for doing it without another machine but it would take some effort cause those trax are heavy! I didn't order 18" but when I picked up the 242 that is what they put on them. Looking back not sure I wouldn't rather have 15". Can I put 15" on the same under carraige or does it have to be reconfigured? These trax do ride rough on hard surfaces. When I got these I asked if there were any less aggressive and the salesman said no. Guess they changed that.

ksss
01-19-2008, 05:21 PM
KRtraxx,

I have no use for a 435 or 445. The 430 with vts was what I was considering. I just like that 440 so much I don't think I could replace it. I had an 85XT and it did not do what I needed. The 95XT/465 was the answer to my problems. Your friend may have told you of the changes in the Series 3 machines. The changes are more significant than when the 400 series was introduced. Those axle torque numbers are interesting. There has to be some other factors at work there. The 440 is pound for pound the most powerful machine I have run and I have run a lot of them. How the 445 has the axle torque listed I don't know. Some that has to compensate for the addded weight of the 445 itself. The axle torque in that machine (445) will likely increase considerably with the series 3 machines. It will be interesting to see what the increases will be in the 440. I don't know that they can add more hp to the 440 but that is the rumor.

allinearth
01-19-2008, 05:39 PM
Hey Ksss, how exactly does the ride control option work? As in is there a dampener on the bucket arms that hold the load steady or what?

ksss
01-19-2008, 05:56 PM
It works by using accumulators on the lift arms like a wheel loader or backhoe. It is activated by a trigger switch in the right control handle. You need to lift the arms about a foot from the stops on the frame or higher and hold the button in. The arms might settle a couple inches. You then can run full speed with a full bucket. You don't lose material and it is much easier on the operator. It is a great feature.

KRtraxx
01-19-2008, 07:42 PM
KRtraxx- Nice info!:drinkup:

One more question on the VTS... How long does it usually take to put the tracks on, and take them off? Can 1 person do it or do you need help? I guess that's two questions... That's all I have for now.:usflag:

Well,If you do it once the second time would be quicker..I would say at least an hour if you have done that machine before.They all seem to have a little quirk to make it easier once you figure it out.I would say its a 2 man job for sure.Just to hard to line things up by yourself.I usually use another skid with the forks slid just about together and then lift from under the top of the track band.Make sure you lift them level and it will be way easier.Some go on easier front first and some rear first.So I have no specific answer for all models..
I have seen guy put them on with an engine cherry picker lifting from the holes in the track with a small chain..If your only one guy that might be doable.Got to be on a concrete surface for that one obviously..Its very important to get those rear lug nuts torqued to spec. Check them after the fir st 2 hours or so when you first install them.

KRtraxx
01-19-2008, 08:00 PM
KRtraxx,

I have no use for a 435 or 445. The 430 with vts was what I was considering. I just like that 440 so much I don't think I could replace it. I had an 85XT and it did not do what I needed. The 95XT/465 was the answer to my problems. Your friend may have told you of the changes in the Series 3 machines. The changes are more significant than when the 400 series was introduced. Those axle torque numbers are interesting. There has to be some other factors at work there. The 440 is pound for pound the most powerful machine I have run and I have run a lot of them. How the 445 has the axle torque listed I don't know. Some that has to compensate for the addded weight of the 445 itself. The axle torque in that machine (445) will likely increase considerably with the series 3 machines. It will be interesting to see what the increases will be in the 440. I don't know that they can add more hp to the 440 but that is the rumor.

Ksss Am sorry I misread your post about the 430/435.I screwed up.Must need some glasses. :) The 430 axle torque shows identical numbers to the 440.Thats interesting since it is 74HP.Axle torque must be determined to some degree by the final drive motors output.
I agree with you on the 440.Its feels like a little monster on the job site.Probably my favorite Case skid period..Machines that feel overpowered suit me to a T.Its intersting how this new Case engine actually feels stronger than the Cummins one to me/or very close at least.Am not real informed yet on whats in store for the next series.Will do some checking...