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zedosix
01-21-2008, 11:32 PM
I had a chance to look at the new 5500 ram last week, I like what I see and wonder if anyone on this site had a chance to drive it or maybe someone owns one. I would like some input on the general feel of the truck, your likes, dislikes etc.

Gravel Rat
01-21-2008, 11:42 PM
They are just hitting the market so don't expect too many people with them yet. The biggest problem with them is they are still a Dodge :laugh:

Foz
01-21-2008, 11:52 PM
I've been looking at them as well........anyone own one yet???????

zedosix
01-22-2008, 12:12 AM
They are just hitting the market so don't expect too many people with them yet. The biggest problem with them is they are still a Dodge :laugh:

They are all good til they break down. I realize they are new on the market but that motor has been out for over a year now. I hear the engine braking is just great, replacing brakes is a non issue for a guy like me who only puts 12k a year.

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 02:23 AM
If you are going to buy one buy a Sterling version then you can get better dealer service etc.

ZX12R
01-22-2008, 02:40 PM
I drove one zedosix.Read the link below.


http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=211435&highlight=drove+bullet

zedosix
01-22-2008, 02:47 PM
I drove one zedosix.Read the link below.


http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=211435&highlight=drove+bullet

I do like it, definetely worth a look especially with 0% financing. I looked at another ford 550, I can get an 07 for about the same cost as the dodge except the ford has 9% financing. Since I won't be driving it, my guys do that, I will likely opt for the less expensive dodge, and what the hell, that brake alone just gets me all worked up.

ZX12R
01-22-2008, 03:13 PM
The exhaust brake is surely a nice feature. The 0% financing is a no brainer compared to 9% and I would stay away from fords anyway....too many motor issues. Have you considered the GMC 5500? The Duramax and Allison combination is proven and hard to beat.

How much is a Dodge cab and chassis going to cost? On the Sterling Bullet c&c,I was quoted $37,076 on a 5500.

zedosix
01-22-2008, 03:27 PM
The exhaust brake is surely a nice feature. The 0% financing is a no brainer compared to 9% and I would stay away from fords anyway....too many motor issues. Have you considered the GMC 5500? The Duramax and Allison combination is proven and hard to beat.

How much is a Dodge cab and chassis going to cost? On the Sterling Bullet c&c,I was quoted $37,076 on a 5500.

Dodge quoted me 45,500 with a 11' dump, folding sides. Truck was bare bones, a/c and auto, no power windows or heated seats, etc. Only deal is that figure is cash only. When you finance the price goes up. I am looking at a 5500 duramax now as a second option. I have a 6500 and I am happy with that truck. I just wanted something a bit smaller that I can send the average joe to work in without having to take 2 or 3 parking spaces, and they both have the same payload anyway. Here is a pic of the c5500 I'm looking at.

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 03:35 PM
Keep in mind the truck with a 19,000lb gvw is very maxed out for brakes so you will definatly need a exhaust brake. It is the same with the F-550 with the 19,000lb gvw which has the EXACT same brakes as my F-450. My F-450loaded to 16,000lbs you really can feel it in the braking power.

There really isn't much more that Dodge could do to improve the braking power on their trucks. A 19.5 wheel only allows a rotor a certain size and the caliper. As for tires the Dodge uses the same 225-19.5 rubber as the Ford.

I wouldn't expect miracles from Dodge. If you have any experience with F-450 and F-550 trucks I don't think your going to notice much difference. You may notice the Dodge is way way under sprung. Dodge it notorious for putting springs into their trucks that are too light. They have been that way for the last 20 years.

People that say the Dodge 4500 and 5500 rides rough hasn't had any 1.5-2 ton truck experience. All Fords ride the same I'am so used to it now I don't even notice the ride. I have been driving 1.5 ton trucks as a daily driver for 10 years.

You want to experience a rough ride the "F-Superduty" trucks the first F-450s Ford built ride rougher than my current 03 F-450. The reason being the front leaf springs are longer on the 03. The rear leaf springs are not much different.

The 19.5 rubber rides a little rough so if your used to pansy 16 inch E rated rubber your going to find the 19.5s a little rough.

Anyhow go test drive a 4500-5500 it would be nice if it had a similar body on it that you want to use like a flatdeck or dump etc. You will want a truck with a 84 inch cab axle you get one with the 60 inch cab axle its going to ride like a tank. Longer the wheelbase smoother the ride will be. Unless your building a tow truck a 60 inch cab axle is too short. A 9 foot dump/flatdeck is useless on a 16,000-19,000lb truck you can't get enough legal load on them.

Like I mentioned deal with Sterling atleast you will have somebody that can work on your truck. Most Dodge dealer mechanics have no clue on repairing a truck.

Also if you have engine problems don't bother taking it to Cummins they won't work on it. I know the Cummins dealer in B.C. said they won't touch a Cummins in a new Dodge. They said Dodge has changed the engine managment system they can't do anything to it.

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 03:39 PM
To add more if you buy a 4500-5500 watch out what is going to happen for repairs. Chev/GMC sold that line of trucks to International so anything to do with them may become tough down the line.

I heard Chev/GMC will build a truck similar to what Ford and Dodge has a P/U truck cab on a 1.5 ton chassis like Chevy had before which was the 3500HD. They scrapped that and started building those ugly 4500-5500 which didn't sell very well probably one of the reasons why Chev is sold the medium duty truck line to IHC.

The 3500HD 1.5 ton truck was a popular good seller from Chevy the problem was the 6.5 engine but the rest of the truck was fine.

BrandonV
01-22-2008, 04:08 PM
just something else you might think of is the ford lcf, I'm buying one w/ a switch-n-go but for a truck you're not driving it'd be a great choice, has power but not too much, and has the same weight caps as the f550 and others, just a bit slower, but easier to work on and to drive/park

zedosix
01-22-2008, 04:11 PM
just something else you might think of is the ford lcf, I'm buying one w/ a switch-n-go but for a truck you're not driving it'd be a great choice, has power but not too much, and has the same weight caps as the f550 and others, just a bit slower, but easier to work on and to drive/park

Its about value at the moment also. 9% financing for ford, 5.4% for gm and 0% for dodge.

ZX12R
01-22-2008, 04:17 PM
Gravel Rat,you live and breathe trucks,dont you?

Zedo,what year is that c5500 and what are they asking?Is it new?I have been looking for a truck since december.I ruled out the Bullet because I am going to put a 12' body on it with 51" sides.....it would dwarf it,the bullet just looks too small.I decided against Ford because of their problems with the 6.4. I am a phone call away from closing a deal on a C4500 with the body.I originally planned on getting a C5500,but decided against it for a few reasons.

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 04:20 PM
With our Canadian economy in rocky waters right now you wait a bit and the dealers will be willing to deal. You look at this week the stock market took a good dive here in Canada. The province of Ontario can't be doing that good with all the manufacturing jobs being lost.

You can find a deal some wheres.

And oh ya you buy a cab and chassis and get the body done on your own. A turn key truck is always jacked up in price. You buy the cab and chassis then take it to a truck outfitter to have the dump body etc put on.

My quote from Del Equipment for a 11 foot dump body installed with PTO hydrualics was 8500-9000 dollars. A brandnew 11' dumping flatdeck from another supplier is 7000 dollars.

I don't base my decision on trucks with who has the better price. I buy pretty much nothing but Ford trucks 1/2 ton to 2 ton. They have been suiting my needs for 15 years and my dad has used Ford trucks for 30 plus years.

I also never use dealer financing anything I do is always through the bank I deal with. Alot simpler especially when your making the payments.

zedosix
01-22-2008, 04:21 PM
Gravel Rat,you live and breathe trucks,dont you?

Zedo,what year is that c5500 and what are they asking?Is it new?I have been looking for a truck since december.I ruled out the Bullet because I am going to put a 12' body on it with 51" sides.....it would dwarf it,the bullet just looks too small.I decided against Ford because of their problems with the 6.4. I am a phone call away from closing a deal on a C4500 with the body.I originally planned on getting a C5500,but decided against it for a few reasons.

Its an 07, has about 500kms on it. They want 53k

wayside
01-22-2008, 04:22 PM
if i was you go with the ford f550 you can still get some 07 for really good prices and they hold up very well i love my 550...

ma5tr
01-22-2008, 04:25 PM
Dont let financing be a selling point of a product for you. Many companies use a 0% financing rate as a marketing tool. Get all the vehicles you are looking at spec them as similar as possible, add in the amount increase for your financing rate and judge prices like that. As for bargaining never let the dealer know you are going to finance always tell them you are paying cash and make them stick to that price when you purchase the vehicle with financing. You can bargain way more than you think. Take a look at the peterbilt 325 as well, Ijust bought one last week and it really impressed me.

ZX12R
01-22-2008, 04:43 PM
"And oh ya you buy a cab and chassis and get the body done on your own. A turn key truck is always jacked up in price. You buy the cab and chassis then take it to a truck outfitter to have the dump body etc put on.

My quote from Del Equipment for a 11 foot dump body installed with PTO hydrualics was 8500-9000 dollars. A brandnew 11' dumping flatdeck from another supplier is 7000 dollars."

Not always true Gravel.For the GMC I am looking at,I went personally and talked to the people who put the body on.He told me that he would charge me the exact same amount that he charged the dealer.The dealer told me that this body was 13k and thats exactly what the salesman at the truck body business quoted me.I have the invoice in my hand given to me by the truck dealership. I have called 2 other dealersips that had the same body and their prices for the body alone averaged $1500 more,so,you really have to do your homework if you want the best price.

In most cases ,you will get a better deal on a truck already equipped with a body because the body is geared toward a mason,a landscaper,or whatever.

GravelyGuy
01-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Dont let financing be a selling point of a product for you. Many companies use a 0% financing rate as a marketing tool. Get all the vehicles you are looking at spec them as similar as possible, add in the amount increase for your financing rate and judge prices like that. As for bargaining never let the dealer know you are going to finance always tell them you are paying cash and make them stick to that price when you purchase the vehicle with financing. You can bargain way more than you think. Take a look at the peterbilt 325 as well, Ijust bought one last week and it really impressed me.

Sometimes the dealers benefit and make money when you finance. Telling them you are paying cash is not always the best idea. I would go with the undecided approach.

ma5tr
01-22-2008, 05:21 PM
gravely.....you got a good point, also find out who does the financing for them.

zedosix
01-22-2008, 05:25 PM
Financing and buying outright are two different ball games. When you buy outright you Have their rock bottom price, which is what I did with ford and dodge. Both had Excellent pricing based on buying cash. When I told them I wanted to finance, ford put up its price and wants 9%, dodge also put up their price but wants 0%. I have owned 7 ford diesels up to now and know what I'm getting, I don't want an 08 not interested in the least. I priced the 07 and was very happy with that deal until he quoted me the finance price. I'm not even going to bother with him anymore. I've not the desire to buy from ford at this point. I like the gmc, I have one already and service is good, but I don't have experience with their duramax in that model. I do know that the larger gmc with 19500gvwr has a smaller legal payload than the dodge and ford, I really don't mind which one I end up with just as long as the price is right and service is good.

Lawnworks
01-22-2008, 05:58 PM
I would love to hear your input if you purchase the dodge. I own a Dodge 3500 cab and chassis w/ 270k miles. I hear people talk about how the truck is junk, but I can't figure out why mine isn't falling apart. I sure don't nurse it and regulary carry 4000lbs in the bed or pull a 10-16k load.

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 07:46 PM
If you don't need a 4x4 what about getting a Hino 185 it will get better fuel economy and last alot longer than anything else out there. One guy I know with a 185 he said the truck costs a little more but the fuel savings is worth it.

What are you going to use the truck for ?

ZX12R
01-22-2008, 08:00 PM
"If you don't need a 4x4 what about getting a Hino 185 it will get better fuel economy and last alot longer than anything else out there. One guy I know with a 185 he said the truck costs a little more but the fuel savings is worth it."

Who are you asking Gravel? To add something for the people who do not know,a Hino truck does not come close to the HP,and more importantly,the torque compared to either a Dodge,the Ford,or the GMC. I have a friend who sold his because he was not happy with its hauling capabilities.

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 08:06 PM
Refering to Zedosix :canadaflag:

The hino doesn't have the power but it has the durability. The Hino engine will go more trouble free kilometers than the Cummins Duramax or PSD will ever dream off. The Cummins is a 400,000km motor if you can get that out of one. Also the new 6.7 Cummins is a pig on fuel you get in a 5500 Dodge it will be sucking back 12mpg.

Here is a hino forsale at a dealer in Vancouver to give you a idea

http://www.hinofraservalley.com/productpage.asp?category=5&subcategory=28&product=573&selimage=3279#title

zedosix
01-22-2008, 09:50 PM
If you don't need a 4x4 what about getting a Hino 185 it will get better fuel economy and last alot longer than anything else out there. One guy I know with a 185 he said the truck costs a little more but the fuel savings is worth it.

What are you going to use the truck for ?

Naw, its kind of wimpy if you ask me, I've seen the hino and I am not impressed. For me its ford, chevy or dodge. Btw 12mpg is not bad, I just sold my f450 and I was getting maybe 8. Listen I do about 12k a year, kilometers, not miles. It works HARD, I can't stress that enough. We do excavation, ie heavy wet clay, I remove asphalt driveways, I haul boulders etc. Main thing about these smaller trucks is the quality of box that they come with. Up to now I am most impressed with the chevy. I know I can spec out the ford with a stronger box but the price just jumps another 2k.

Foz
01-22-2008, 10:37 PM
zedosix;

Be careful with the GMC/Chevy 4500 & 5500 as the trucks are heavier than a Ford F450 or 550. My last F550 before I sold the business in 07 were 4 x 4 rated at 19,000 with the upgraded rear axle & 33,000 GCWR and weighed in at around 10,800# empty with 11 Ft dump box.

My 2003 GMC 5500s were 2WD with 11 Ft boxes and weighed in at 12,000# empty. All trucks had Air Flow boxes, so the dump bodies were the same, the GM chassis just weighed in at 1,000# more

Gravel Rat
01-22-2008, 11:16 PM
If your only doing 12,000kms a year then you better buy a gas pot then. The new diesel trucks can't sit for very long or you run into problems. Take the 6.0 for example you end up with turbo veins sticking. The newer trucks are worse with all this exhaust gas regurgitator that constantly needs use to work properly or it will coke up. So pretty much your only putting 1000kms a month on the truck.

These new trucks need to be driven and driven hard to make the emmisions work.

As for the Chevy like I said International will be building the 4500-5500 and next year where are you going to take the truck to have repairs.

How far do you haul your material a 1.5 ton-2 ton truck must take forever to haul material if your fighting traffic etc. For me it is about a hour round trip from the pit to most place I haul to. For topsoil or any specialty gravel products is 1.5-2 hour round trip. This a rural area with no stop lights or scales. I can haul loads past legal gvw just have to watch the RCMP cars a few of them have portable scales in the trunk.

I charge 50 bucks per hour for my truck if any labour is involve like shoveling then it is 20 bucks per hour on top of that.

One of the Sterling dealers has a 5500 Dodge 2wd Cab and chassis reg cab 84Ca ready for 12 foot body it says 43,750 dollars they have a few more for the same price. The dealer also carries Ford trucks the have a 08 F-550 4x4 with a backpack and dump box for 62,800 dollars. They also show a 5500 Sterling 2wd with a 11foot dump they want 54,700.

Good Luck on what you choose

zedosix
01-22-2008, 11:27 PM
I love the diesels, its the only way I'll go, plus I need the torque that the diesels offer. My shop is basically 10 minutes from where I work so rarely do I spend an hour from jobsite to my dumpsite. I have operated diesels for the last 21 yrs and have not ever had problems with any of them gumming up over the winter. We run them hard from April to end of November, after that they are in hibernation other than the couple of times I start them in the winter.

zedosix
01-23-2008, 12:07 AM
I will look into this tomorrow. I found a dealer within 10 kms of my shop, I had no idea they were there.

Gravel Rat
01-23-2008, 12:12 AM
I like diesels too but with the new ones being a miserable POS to work on and especially with the 08s with the emmissions stuff on them. I would be looking into that because if you let a truck sit for 4 months you get problems.

I think its only Ford you can get a gas engine in a 1.5 ton truck Dodge doesn't offer a gas engine in the 4500-5500 and Chevy dropped the 8.1 litre.

You look at the diesel option in the trucks is 8-9 grand more. In 4 years they depreciate big time.

A familly friend traded his 04 F-350 6.0 4x4 fully loaded ext cab dually in. When he bought the truck in 04 he paid 62,000 for it now it is at Ford listed at 37,000. Truck has 109,000kms on it the truck depreciated about 6000 dollars a year. His current Ford F-350 with the 6.4 cost 75,000 all said and done.

I can't see how you are going to make the truck pay for itself if you spend 55,000 or so on a dump truck only put 12,000kms a year on it. The tires on your trucks must get dry rot sitting so much. So say you keep the truck for 5 years does the truck make you 11,000 dollars a year ?

Just curious

Marek
01-23-2008, 12:40 AM
I like the new Sterlings, but would I be willing to buy Dodge again? The last one I owned I was going to drive thru the dealers showroom if it wasnt fixed right, and had a hudge "piss on Mopar" sticker on it.

zedosix
01-23-2008, 03:26 AM
I just sold a 95 f450 with the 7.3 I bought it for 33k sold it for 12 k thats less than 2k a year loss. Not sure where you get your #'s from. The box started to rot on it from the abuse it went thru. The motor never cost me, it was the tranny and brakes that cost the most in that truck. You see, no matter what you own, no matter what combo of motor, no matter anything, man its going to cost you to own. To me its more than just how much its going to cost me when its time to trade ole nelly in. Its about how easily she hauls a pile of clay and tows my 8,k pound skid up that hill. I dont care about gas, I have a gas motor in the vette so you wanna talk about depreciation.........

lwcmattlifter
01-23-2008, 07:09 AM
I would love to hear your input if you purchase the dodge. I own a Dodge 3500 cab and chassis w/ 270k miles. I hear people talk about how the truck is junk, but I can't figure out why mine isn't falling apart. I sure don't nurse it and regulary carry 4000lbs in the bed or pull a 10-16k load.

I have a Dodge 2500 that gets worked hard on a regular basis and it's held up as good or better than my Fords that get worked the same.

zedosix
01-23-2008, 08:33 AM
I have a Dodge 2500 that gets worked hard on a regular basis and it's held up as good or better than my Fords that get worked the same.

Then its quite obvious you don't plow with your trucks.

mag360
01-23-2008, 04:55 PM
Then its quite obvious you don't plow with your trucks.

Front leafs on the fords definitely hold up better than the coil sprung dodges. The new ones are pretty much on the same page though I guess.

TXNSLighting
01-23-2008, 06:05 PM
I like diesels too but with the new ones being a miserable POS to work on and especially with the 08s with the emmissions stuff on them. I would be looking into that because if you let a truck sit for 4 months you get problems.

I think its only Ford you can get a gas engine in a 1.5 ton truck Dodge doesn't offer a gas engine in the 4500-5500 and Chevy dropped the 8.1 litre.

You look at the diesel option in the trucks is 8-9 grand more. In 4 years they depreciate big time.

A familly friend traded his 04 F-350 6.0 4x4 fully loaded ext cab dually in. When he bought the truck in 04 he paid 62,000 for it now it is at Ford listed at 37,000. Truck has 109,000kms on it the truck depreciated about 6000 dollars a year. His current Ford F-350 with the 6.4 cost 75,000 all said and done.

I can't see how you are going to make the truck pay for itself if you spend 55,000 or so on a dump truck only put 12,000kms a year on it. The tires on your trucks must get dry rot sitting so much. So say you keep the truck for 5 years does the truck make you 11,000 dollars a year ?

Just curious

a 2004 350 for 62000??!!!! he slightly over paid...

zedosix
01-23-2008, 06:09 PM
a 2004 350 for 62000??!!!! he slightly over paid...

Not really, don't forget 3 yrs ago your dollar actually had value.:canadaflag:

Gravel Rat
01-23-2008, 08:16 PM
You should see his new 08 exact same truck with tax etc it is pushing 75,000 dollars. That is for a frigging pickup truck.

I went to Ford and priced out a 07 F-450 or F-550 XL 4x4 165 wheebase a diesel cab and chassis started out at 43,000.

Trucks and auto parts alway have been cheaper down in the US your fuel is cheaper. Bought oil and fuel filters from the US I paid almost 30 dollars less for the fuel filter online than I get from Ford. The exact same motorcraft filter.

If tires were not so expensive to ship I would buy them online too. A Bridgstone R-250 I use for steer tires on my truck I pay 312 dollars a tire down in the US 224 dollars.

As for truck price on the West Coast ie B.C. if the truck has over 200,000kms your going to have a tough time selling it it doesn't matter if its gas or diesel. If the truck is in the 300,000km mark you will have to give it away in the 400,000km mark you take it to the scrap dealer.

My current 03 F-450 I bought it last year truck had 58,500kms (36,351 miles) on the odo for 34,000CND that was the best deal I could find. It had a clean oasis report. I would have like to have a 4x4 but I couldn't find one and the 4x4s I did find had 50,000 more kilometers on them.

I had a 95 F-450 the truck had 220,000kms on it when I sold it for 12,000. I paid 15,000 for it and had it for about a year. Truck needed a rebuilt 5spd and the rear end was going. The orginal PSD was shot and when I bought the truck it has a so called rebuilt engine installed. Find out it was a used engine is unknown history. Truck looked good but it must have been driven the snot out of.

TXNSLighting
01-23-2008, 09:19 PM
why in the world are they so expensive there?! that same truck here stickered for about 48, you could drive it home for 42ish

TXNSLighting
01-23-2008, 09:20 PM
such a shame.

Gravel Rat
01-23-2008, 09:50 PM
The thing that will really chap your azz is the auto manufacturers caught on that with the CND dollar being decent they are telling US car dealers not to sell to Canadians. We can go to the states and buy a truck cheaper than we can buy one here. We can buy a used truck from the USA but buying a brandnew truck is being clamped down on.

We are bent over a barrel here in Canada with anything automotive. We end up paying right through the nose for parts that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars less in the US.

lwcmattlifter
01-23-2008, 11:03 PM
Then its quite obvious you don't plow with your trucks.

I live in North Carolina, the world comes to an end if we get an inch of snow.

ZX12R
01-23-2008, 11:36 PM
Gravel,don't forget to tell everyone that on top of the price of your vehicles,you also pay about 14% sales tax that vehicle. :cry:

newdude
01-24-2008, 05:28 PM
I will look into this tomorrow. I found a dealer within 10 kms of my shop, I had no idea they were there.

do you think you could grab some pics of one of these?

02DURAMAX
01-25-2008, 07:39 PM
I like diesels too but with the new ones being a miserable POS to work on and especially with the 08s with the emmissions stuff on them. I would be looking into that because if you let a truck sit for 4 months you get problems.

I think its only Ford you can get a gas engine in a 1.5 ton truck Dodge doesn't offer a gas engine in the 4500-5500 and Chevy dropped the 8.1 litre.

You look at the diesel option in the trucks is 8-9 grand more. In 4 years they depreciate big time.

A familly friend traded his 04 F-350 6.0 4x4 fully loaded ext cab dually in. When he bought the truck in 04 he paid 62,000 for it now it is at Ford listed at 37,000. Truck has 109,000kms on it the truck depreciated about 6000 dollars a year. His current Ford F-350 with the 6.4 cost 75,000 all said and done.

I can't see how you are going to make the truck pay for itself if you spend 55,000 or so on a dump truck only put 12,000kms a year on it. The tires on your trucks must get dry rot sitting so much. So say you keep the truck for 5 years does the truck make you 11,000 dollars a year ?

Just curious

No, They did not drop the 8.1 it is only available for the medium duty's now..