PDA

View Full Version : Overseeding Before Spring


MOTES
01-25-2008, 01:25 PM
I own 5 acre lot and all is grass. But there's quite of bare spots where just soil is showing and also alot of places have crabgrass- which is brown or dead right now. My Question is can i just put seed down before spring, and it then later grow on the bare spots? And the Crabgrass, if i put down enough seed over the crabgrass, would the grass take over later or would i difinely have to put down crabgrass control? The Lot itself have good soil, so i'm hoping that i don't have to break up the dirt to overseed, but if i have to, please let me know. The first time, i put down Kentucky 31, but didn't put down enough or drought season. It's does look good standing away but looking down doesn't. Any Question, comments, or respond would GREATLY appreicate.

grass_cuttin_fool
01-25-2008, 02:33 PM
If you put down grass seed now then you cant put down crab grass pre-m......that keeps the seeds from germination and your grass seed wont germinate either. I would seed now and then use a post emergent later on after the new grass gets established

wayne

RGM
01-25-2008, 02:39 PM
If you put down the pre emergent after the grass seed is up you have to wait at least 4 weeks of growth by that time the crab grass is up. You can get crab grass control that is not a pre emergent but its about 4 times the price and i have found it works ok but sometimes hurts the regular lawn just a bit

Whitey4
01-25-2008, 02:57 PM
You can use Tupersan after overseeding as a pre emergent for crabgrass. It's pretty expensive, like $36 per 10k, but I've been told it works well. I will be using it this year in some places myself.

NattyLawn
01-25-2008, 03:29 PM
Is all 5 acres K31? That might be part of the problem there. You used an older tall fescue that generally doesn't look as nice as the newer varieties.

How do you know you have good soil? Did you do a soil test? How old is the lawn?

If I were you, I would wait until late summer/early fall to seed. You have 5 acres of lawn with bare spots mixed in. Say you put down seed in the spring and we don't have any rain? Or you put down seed and you have heat and drought this summer? You can't keep those seedlings watered. Seed in the fall when you (hopefully) have Mother Nature on your side. The turf will see 2 growing seasons before stress. If you were dealing with 5k of lawn I'd tell you to seed with caution in the spring. With your lawn, I'd wait.

Landrus2
01-25-2008, 03:35 PM
What temperatures you have down there if its blow 50 I would wait until temperature rise.:drinkup:

MOTES
01-25-2008, 04:05 PM
Is all 5 acres K31? That might be part of the problem there. You used an older tall fescue that generally doesn't look as nice as the newer varieties.

How do you know you have good soil? Did you do a soil test? How old is the lawn?

If I were you, I would wait until late summer/early fall to seed. You have 5 acres of lawn with bare spots mixed in. Say you put down seed in the spring and we don't have any rain? Or you put down seed and you have heat and drought this summer? You can't keep those seedlings watered. Seed in the fall when you (hopefully) have Mother Nature on your side. The turf will see 2 growing seasons before stress. If you were dealing with 5k of lawn I'd tell you to seed with caution in the spring. With your lawn, I'd wait.

Yes, it's all 5 acres of K31. The soil use to be farming land. This is a new lawn, about 1.5 year old. I'm planning on to go ahead and seed Late Feb and see how it turn out this year. Than reseed again in fall. Anybody disagree here, let me know

rcreech
01-25-2008, 04:19 PM
Yes, it's all 5 acres of K31. The soil use to be farming land. This is a new lawn, about 1.5 year old. I'm planning on to go ahead and seed Late Feb and see how it turn out this year. Than reseed again in fall. Anybody disagree here, let me know

First I would make sure it needs seeded. Look at the lawn and it there are areas larger then a softball then these areas will need seeded.

You would be amazed at what a good fertility and weed control program will do!

Overall, the picture of your lawn doesn't look too bad.

I am not a big fan of KY31, as Turf Type Tall Fescue is a much better pick, but too late now!

Anyway, if your lawn does need some seeding, I personally wouldn't just throw the seed out and hope for the best in Feb.

I would slice seed the areas as seed to soil contact is very important and will give you a much better stand and germ rate.

Also make sure you use a good starter!

If you seed, make sure and wait until you have mowed a time or two before you apply a crabgrass product. That is just being on the safe side!

Good Luck!

Whitey4
01-25-2008, 06:23 PM
First I would make sure it needs seeded. Look at the lawn and it there are areas larger then a softball then these areas will need seeded.

You would be amazed at what a good fertility and weed control program will do!

Overall, the picture of your lawn doesn't look too bad.

I am not a big fan of KY31, as Turf Type Tall Fescue is a much better pick, but too late now!

Anyway, if your lawn does need some seeding, I personally wouldn't just throw the seed out and hope for the best in Feb.

I would slice seed the areas as seed to soil contact is very important and will give you a much better stand and germ rate.

Also make sure you use a good starter!

If you seed, make sure and wait until you have mowed a time or two before you apply a crabgrass product. That is just being on the safe side!

Good Luck!

Rodney, you ever use Tupersan? I have it from reliable sources that this can be put down as a crabbgrass preM very safely even two weeks after an overseeding.

Right from the label:

STATUS: General use
PRINCIPAL USES: Selectively controls certain germinating annual weed
grasses such as crabgrass (smooth and hairy), foxtail and barnyardgrass,
in newly seeded or established plantings of bluegrass, fescue, redtop,
smooth brome, perennial ryegrass, orchardgrass, zoysia, and the following
strains of bentgrass: PennCross, Seaside, Highland, Astoria, Nimisila,
C-1, C-7, and C-19. Should not be used on other bentgrass strains nor
on bermudagrass (58).
APPLICATION METHOD(S): Applied as a preemergence treatment to bare soil
as a final operation following spring seeding, or to new fall seedings
or established turf in the spring just before expected emergence of
annual weed grasses (58).

Sounds like it's pretty safe to me. Both Pat Voges (Pesident of the NSLGA, my local association, and given an acknowledgement in the NY Category 3a and 3b manual) and from my fert guy, who has 20 years as a sod farmer under his belt have told me as much. Like I said, it's expensive, but it will work with a newly seeded lawn.

rcreech
01-25-2008, 09:53 PM
Rodney, you ever use Tupersan? I have it from reliable sources that this can be put down as a crabbgrass preM very safely even two weeks after an overseeding.

Right from the label:

STATUS: General use
PRINCIPAL USES: Selectively controls certain germinating annual weed
grasses such as crabgrass (smooth and hairy), foxtail and barnyardgrass,
in newly seeded or established plantings of bluegrass, fescue, redtop,
smooth brome, perennial ryegrass, orchardgrass, zoysia, and the following
strains of bentgrass: PennCross, Seaside, Highland, Astoria, Nimisila,
C-1, C-7, and C-19. Should not be used on other bentgrass strains nor
on bermudagrass (58).
APPLICATION METHOD(S): Applied as a preemergence treatment to bare soil
as a final operation following spring seeding, or to new fall seedings
or established turf in the spring just before expected emergence of
annual weed grasses (58).

Sounds like it's pretty safe to me. Both Pat Voges (Pesident of the NSLGA, my local association, and given an acknowledgement in the NY Category 3a and 3b manual) and from my fert guy, who has 20 years as a sod farmer under his belt have told me as much. Like I said, it's expensive, but it will work with a newly seeded lawn.

I am not familiar with the product...but there is a new product coming out this year that I am very familiar with on the ag side. I have been using it for a couple years as Colisto (Mesitrione) but the turf product will be called Tenacity.

This product is awesome as it is a pre and post crab and also does an awesome job on broadleaves (except for clover)right before or after seeding.

This product will fix all our seeding/chemical app problems!

Whitey4
01-25-2008, 10:41 PM
Any idea on cost? I know the Tupersan works... take it for fact, but it isn't a post emergent.

Looking at the thread starter again, and the pic of the property... MOTES, definitely don't try to do a pre-spring overseeding. Waste of time and money. Also, without irrigation, you will have to rely on spring rains. That is at best risky, and more likely won't work. If I were hellbent on making this lawn better for this summer, here is what I would do:

In the spring, use a slit seeder to overseed the whole 5 acres. Top dress the entire property. In large bare spots, rake out the old crabgrass debris. After overseeding put down some futerra material in the bare spots, which comes in rolls and can be cut to size, and works as a moisture and weed seed barrier. It is fully compostable. It has to be stapled in, and then well watered. It is a sort of compostable, biodegradable mulch that is designed for just this, and will also protect he seed from birds. If I correctly assume that there is no irrigation system, timing the overseeding with the spring rains is important.

I would also put down an application of a soil wetting material. I am somewhat familiar with a product called Reservior, manufactured by the Helena Chemical company in TN, an adjuvant supply/ manufacturer. This product will help the soil to retain water. Up to 60% more, for at least 4 weeks. There are other similar soil wetting products out there.

Put down Tupersan as a crabgrass pre-emergent a week after over seeding. Sit down.... for 5 acres, without a quantity discount, that's 22 bags.... about 800 bucks just for that, nevermind the seed or anything else.

If it were me, and I had money to burn, that is how I would approach it. I would also do as much manual irrigation as possible after overseeding. With a chitpile of garden hose, you could at least cover the area in front of the house adequatley. Otherwise, success will depend on the most inpredictable of things, spring rains. Forget trying to overseed before spring. It flat out won't work.

roguesuerte
01-25-2008, 11:01 PM
The lawn looks very good in general(beside where there is road traffic). I am assuming you dont have an irrigation system so you opted for K31(a very hardy grass). The problem with K31 is that it is not very dense and there is no rhizoming to create thatch and to stop broadleaf weeds and crabgrass from germinating. I would make three light pre-m or dimension applications four weeks apart, beginning in April in addition to your regualr fertility program to keep crabrass/broadleaf weeds in check.

Russ
01-26-2008, 10:29 AM
Is Cincinnati in Zone 5? If so August to September is the best time to seed. If ya can't wait now (dormant seeding) is the second best time. Ya may want to read this http://www.agry.purdue.edu/turf/pubs/ay-20.pdf and follow the recommendations. We've had very good luck with dormant seeding when combined with core aeration and it, core aeration, is going to be a lot easier on ya than slice seeding. Too bad about the K-31 but, it's too late now. Your only going to get 4-6 weeks from a Turspan application and it is very expensive. If it was me on my lawn, I would live with the Crab for a season or wait until I had mowed the new grass 2 or 3 times before I made a Crab control application. If doing a late Crab control you may want to consider a product containing Dimension for the post control it offers. After it is up pour on the N----6-7lb/N/M for the year (a buddy of mine with a sod farm grows in at 10-12lbN/M). You will increase the disease pressure but, IMHO, one of the worst mistakes made on grow ins is inadequate N. Actually, considering the drought last year, it looks like you did a lot of things right.

grassman2001
01-26-2008, 07:24 PM
I am not familiar with the product...but there is a new product coming out this year that I am very familiar with on the ag side. I have been using it for a couple years as Colisto (Mesitrione) but the turf product will be called Tenacity.

This product is awesome as it is a pre and post crab and also does an awesome job on broadleaves (except for clover)right before or after seeding.

This product will fix all our seeding/chemical app problems!

I was at Cents last week for recertification classes and was told that it is not gauranteed that this product will be be labeled for use on residential lawns this year. I was told that they hoped it would be but don't count on it.

But when they do get this registered and labeled it sounds like this should be a very good product for us to used

rcreech
01-26-2008, 09:37 PM
I was at Cents last week for recertification classes and was told that it is not gauranteed that this product will be be labeled for use on residential lawns this year. I was told that they hoped it would be but don't count on it.

But when they do get this registered and labeled it sounds like this should be a very good product for us to used

They say that Tenacity won't be labeled?

Last I heard, they were very pretty sure that we would get it this spring!

I will have to check on that! That will suck...as I was planning on using it alot this year (unless it is priced way out there).

Thanks for the heads up!

naughty62
01-27-2008, 07:37 AM
put down pre m in spring.overseed at10to12 # early fall .mow at 4 inches.this will give you alittle time to address any other issues.