21" - Toro vs Exmark

[jdmcat]

i was looking at the metro 21" and it looks identical to every toro i've ever seen. what's the difference? does toro make the exmark or vice versa?

[columbia]

Exmark owns toro, as far as I know...

[J&T Kiev]

i was looking at the metro 21" and it looks identical to every toro i've ever seen. what's the difference? does toro make the exmark or vice versa?

The Toro and the Metro 21 are identical--the differences between the two are slight--The Toro has recycle "kickers" on the mower deck The Metro does not, and some slight differences in handle bar design . Transmission and mower deck design are identical.

[Frue]

Toro owns exmark. the differences are the mulching capacity. The exmark will not mulch as well the toro.... I have both

[Lovingreen]

I believe toro is the parent company, but they are getting more similar every year. I looked at both of the models you are looking at and could only justify the cost if you ran it full time. If it isn't used full time, Save some money and buy a higher end homeowner model. Look at the initial cost and estimate in reallity how long it will last and then see how many $300 or $400 mowers you can buy in that time period. The weak point in the mowers is the transmissions. I usually get about 2-3 seasons out of a homeowner model. The toro personal pace has been my favorite, but you have to replace the plastic rear wheels regularly, but that is cheap. I have a Honda now which has held up alot better, but is a little slower and won't cut as high as I would like in some situations. When the honda stops pulling, if I can't fix it cheap, I'll probably go back to the Toro.

[J&T Kiev]

Toro owns exmark. the differences are the mulching capacity. The exmark will not mulch as well the toro.... I have both

I to own both , and I agree with your statement regarding the Toro's better mulching ability of the two . I have to come to the conclusion the 'kickers" employed on the Toro version of the mower are the reason for this difference in mulching capability(although the difference is not extreme).

[Roger]

I have a Toro Proline 21" mower, a couple of years old. One feature that I dislike is the Operator Presence feature is coupled with the ground drive engagement. The bail is below the handlebar. The activate the OP, the bail is pulled half way up, to engage the ground drive, the bail is pulled the rest of the way. Holding the bail in the proper position, especially for starting can be a challenge at times.

It is my understanding the Exmark version has a separate Operator Presence bail, on the topside of the handlebar. Another bail below the handlebar is used exclusively for the ground drive engagement.

Perhaps somebody can confirm my understanding. This difference would be enough for me to choose the Exmark version, over the Toro version.

[All_Toro_4ME]

I have a Toro Proline 21" mower, a couple of years old. One feature that I dislike is the Operator Presence feature is coupled with the ground drive engagement. The bail is below the handlebar. The activate the OP, the bail is pulled half way up, to engage the ground drive, the bail is pulled the rest of the way. Holding the bail in the proper position, especially for starting can be a challenge at times.

It is my understanding the Exmark version has a separate Operator Presence bail, on the topside of the handlebar. Another bail below the handlebar is used exclusively for the ground drive engagement.

Perhaps somebody can confirm my understanding. This difference would be enough for me to choose the Exmark version, over the Toro version.

Regarding the OP and the bail, you might try sliding the transmission in N (neutral) with your foot and then back in gear once it has started. Thats what I've tried because I got a little annoyed with it wanting to take off if you have the bar up to high and it hasnt started yet.

[Roger]

Regarding the OP and the bail, you might try sliding the transmission in N (neutral) with your foot and then back in gear once it has started. Thats what I've tried because I got a little annoyed with it wanting to take off if you have the bar up to high and it hasnt started yet.

I understand your suggestions. However, my mower is almost always used with a bag, making the shifter lever a "hunt in the dark." The bag lays directly over the shifter lever, a few inches away from clear access. Even without the bag, I think only a highly skilled ballet dancer could manage that little shifter lever with a foot! For me, it is always a hand shift.

[jdmcat]

I have a Toro Proline 21" mower, a couple of years old. One feature that I dislike is the Operator Presence feature is coupled with the ground drive engagement. The bail is below the handlebar. The activate the OP, the bail is pulled half way up, to engage the ground drive, the bail is pulled the rest of the way. Holding the bail in the proper position, especially for starting can be a challenge at times.

It is my understanding the Exmark version has a separate Operator Presence bail, on the topside of the handlebar. Another bail below the handlebar is used exclusively for the ground drive engagement.

Perhaps somebody can confirm my understanding. This difference would be enough for me to choose the Exmark version, over the Toro version.

we always tied a piece of trimmer line around the handle and bail just short enough to trip the operator presence. then when you want to shut it off slide the trimmer line off to the side. also i could be mistaken but i think the BBC model will stay running when you let off the handle since the blade disengages, at least on the older ones.

[jdmcat]

I believe toro is the parent company, but they are getting more similar every year. I looked at both of the models you are looking at and could only justify the cost if you ran it full time. If it isn't used full time, Save some money and buy a higher end homeowner model. Look at the initial cost and estimate in reallity how long it will last and then see how many $300 or $400 mowers you can buy in that time period. The weak point in the mowers is the transmissions. I usually get about 2-3 seasons out of a homeowner model. The toro personal pace has been my favorite, but you have to replace the plastic rear wheels regularly, but that is cheap. I have a Honda now which has held up alot better, but is a little slower and won't cut as high as I would like in some situations. When the honda stops pulling, if I can't fix it cheap, I'll probably go back to the Toro.

yeah it's gonna be my main mower, the lawns around here are mostly 6k and under, so the cost is justifiable. i had a personal pace about 5 years ago when i was doing 4 lawns every saturday and it started to fall apart after 2 months. one time i used an entire roll of duct tape wrapped around the wheel when one of the tires fell off. laugh if you want but you have to do what you have to do when the dealer doesn't have a new wheel in stock. anyway, i will be buying a commercial grade mower, i'm thinking about a used toro i found on craigs list for $325, but i don't really want to drive for 2 hours one way to find out it's a POS.

does anyone know the price on the metro 21? i know the toro's run $1200 new.

[lawnpro724]

Go with the Toro proline 21" the exmark 21" has had some bugs in the past and besides that they don't mulch as well as the Toro. Yes, Toro is the parent company and owns the Exmark brand.

[Valk]

If going commercial I'd go with Toro's PT 21, 6hp/KAW & <$900...over the Exmark Metro21 or Toro's Heavy Duty or Hi-Vac models ~$1100-$1200, if I'm not mistaken.

PT 21 - ability to cut up to 4.25"
Other 3 - can only cut up to 3.25"

PT 21 - true Side-discharge to the right
Other 3 - rear discharge to the left

*These 2 above attributes work well with Toro's Atomic blade for amazing results. This blade appears to have a higher lift than the stock-blade which I believe is then negated due to the gator-like teeth making for a slightly less than equal lift. It definitely shreds the clippings more...
*With either blade, the clippings are ejected faster than a rear-discharge which would create more airflow/vacuum and then less stragglers.
*If the grass is tall and/or damp, then concentric side-discharge mowing in a counter-clockwise direction results in a superior cut; over rear side-discharge in a clockwise direction.

PT 21 - 89 lbs
Other 3 - 108-124 lbs depending on model

I prefer the Personal Pace system (of the PT 21) over the 3 speeds for ease of use and simplicity. Ya just gotta adjust the drive cable tension once in awhile = <5min.

BBC is not available on this mower...while useful at times (especially when bagging) it takes up space under the deck and have read/heard it can interfere with mulching ability.


PT 21 - IMHO, at <$900 - is a vastly more versatile Commercial mower that I believe will do a better job whether mulching, cutting taller and/or especially side-discharging...ALL for less money.


It appears the PT 21 shares the same aluminum deck as the Residential Briggs powered 21 Super Recycler...but with KAW power, more H/D handle, steel wheels, maybe more. My direct experiences are with the SR only...


Personally, I'll stick with Toro's Super Recycler at ~$500-$550. The Briggs 6.5 performs great and the handle folds down very easily to fit under my P/U truckbed topper. Yes, it only comes with a 90 day non-Residential/commercial warranty...but besides replacing the rear wheels (~$50 for both, once/year) I've been lucky otherwise.

CUT IT HIGH AND LET IT FLY! :D

[LALawnboy]

JDMCAT: Everyone is pretty much correct in that the mowers are near identical. Like others have mentioned, one of the main differences is the self propel bail. I grew up using Lawnboys, so I was used to having a separate bail for self propel and the other for blade brake. I've used both, and personally (remember, this is just my personal preference) I like the Exmark better. I just got my first Exmark this past fall (paid a little over $1,100) and I love it. When I went looking though, I was dead set on the Toro, so I asked the dealer his opinions on both. What sold me, like I said, is I'm more comfortable using the self propel on the Exmark. Second, like many Toro owners will tell you, over time, the height adjusters become a pita to adjust, sometimes to the point where you need a hammer to tap the adjuster to the next hole. Although the Exmark has the same design, the bracket for the height adjusters is aluminum, and the other piece on the deck is steel. On the Toros, both brackets are steel, which will eventually rust together, thus making it hard as hell to change. It was little things like this that made me choose the Exmark and I couldn't be happier with it.

Roger: I remember talking to you about the 4 cycle staggered deck Lawnboys. I've still got mine, but to be honest, using the Exmark compared to the Lawnboy is like night and day. Places where I would bog down or have to double cut with the Lawnboy, are cut easily the first pass with the Exmark. Plus, like I said above, the Exmark's self-propel system is identical to the Lawnboys.

Hope that helps

[F Y P M]

FYI Toro owns exmark and lawnboy. Since the 4cycle commercial mowers came into play because of the EPA They basically all suck!! They are overhead valves hence torque curve is gone. The old Suzuki 2 cycle at 3600 rpm puts out 5.5 hp at 3000 rpm 5.0 hp, new 6.5 at 3400 rpm 6.0 hp 3000rpm 4.5. You will never replace the suzuki 2 cycle. Also no oil changes, 2 cycle gets clean oil everytime you gas it up.

[Roger]

...

Roger: I remember talking to you about the 4 cycle staggered deck Lawnboys. I've still got mine, but to be honest, using the Exmark compared to the Lawnboy is like night and day. Places where I would bog down or have to double cut with the Lawnboy, are cut easily the first pass with the Exmark. Plus, like I said above, the Exmark's self-propel system is identical to the Lawnboys.



I still ran my LB as the primary mower through the end of the season. I did use the Toro for mulching leaves in the Fall. Sometimes the Toro went ahead of the LB, mulch down first, then bag the remaining debris.

As you may recall, I had much trouble with the DuraForce engine on the LB, and really want to start 2008 season with something different. I could pull out the Toro and use it as my main mower. But, I had too much negative experience with the bagging during April, May, and June -- heavy growing season with sappy clippings. The LB is so much better in those conditions. Further, the weight of the LB is much less, even though it is also much less of a piece of equipment.

I have looked at the new LB commercial offering -- 4 cycle Honda, the "S" series engine, cast aluminum deck, rear bagger between the handles, three-function clipping handling choice, variable ground speed (not the push-style operation on the handle such as Personal Pace), steel wheels, .... It is about 90#, 10 more than the staggered wheel design, but about 20# less than the Toro (or Exmark). I wish I knew the quality of cut.

My other choice would be the old staggered wheel design, with the 4 cycle B&S engine. I know all there is to know about the deck design, the flaws with the ground drive, shoddy drive wheels, flimsy height adjustment levers, and all the rest. But, I DO KNOW that it would produce a great quality of cut, and be able to bag well with the side bagger. I don't know if the B&S will stand to 600+ hours of service use per season.

Jury is still out, but need to make some decision soon.

Since you have used both the LB with 2 cycle engine at about 80-85#, and the Exmark at 115-120#, can you comment on the handling from your viewpoint? What kinds of terrain do you traverse? What kinds of lawn sizes?

[DA Quality Lawn & YS]

jdm - what are you planning to use the 21" mower for? If heavy use, go with the commercial Metro or Toro which will run you well over a grand new. If very light use, you might want to reconsider purch. a Toro S/R or similar (about $500).

[LALawnboy]

My other choice would be the old staggered wheel design, with the 4 cycle B&S engine. I know all there is to know about the deck design, the flaws with the ground drive, shoddy drive wheels, flimsy height adjustment levers, and all the rest. But, I DO KNOW that it would produce a great quality of cut, and be able to bag well with the side bagger. I don't know if the B&S will stand to 600+ hours of service use per season.

Jury is still out, but need to make some decision soon.

Since you have used both the LB with 2 cycle engine at about 80-85#, and the Exmark at 115-120#, can you comment on the handling from your viewpoint? What kinds of terrain do you traverse? What kinds of lawn sizes?


I actually looked into the "new" commercial Lawnboy series when I was researching the Toro vs. Exmark. I like a lot of what the new LB has, but I can't see myself paying that price for a mower with the same self-propel system as the old SilverPro Series. Yes, it says that it's variable speed, but to be honest, that means one thing: when you hold the self-propel bail all the way, that's as fast as you're going to go.

I still love my lawnboy (it's the 2006 model, 4 cycle B&S). I used it as my main mower for 2 seasons. It's just that ever since I bought the Exmark, the LB doesn't seem like a commercial quality built mower. As you know, the Toro and Exmarks are built like tanks.

As for the weight difference, I noticed it a alot the first 2 weeks of owning the Exmark. However, now that I've been using it a couple of months, I can whip it around just like I could with my LB. When it comes to the engine, I couldn't be more impressed. I thought my 4 cycle B&S on my LB was a beast until I got the Kawi on the Exmark. The Kawi will definitely cut through thicker, lush grass a lot easier than the B&S.

My yard sizes down here are pretty smile. No one in my area is cutting acreage size lots. That's why 21"s are my main mowers. Too many obstacles and narrow gates that would be tough to even squeeze a 32" through. Also, the ground is flat. Southern Louisiana is definitely not known for hills. Also, nearly 99% of my yards are St. Aug, the the others are mixes of Bermuda/St. Aug.

[jdmcat]

ok, i just went over to the exmark dealer and tried out the metro 21 and i have to say i found my new mower. i like the controls much better than those on the toro, and since they're last years model, they're 15% off.

BTW, the guy told me that he heard toro is now going to start selling all of their commercial mowers under the exmark name. He said he wasn't sure if it's true or not but thats just what he heard. has anyone else heard about this?

[Lovingreen]

yeah it's gonna be my main mower, the lawns around here are mostly 6k and under, so the cost is justifiable. i had a personal pace about 5 years ago when i was doing 4 lawns every saturday and it started to fall apart after 2 months. one time i used an entire roll of duct tape wrapped around the wheel when one of the tires fell off. laugh if you want but you have to do what you have to do when the dealer doesn't have a new wheel in stock. anyway, i will be buying a commercial grade mower, i'm thinking about a used toro i found on craigs list for $325, but i don't really want to drive for 2 hours one way to find out it's a POS.

does anyone know the price on the metro 21? i know the toro's run $1200 new.

I agree you need a commercial. In your shoes I would go with Toro. They have been in the 21" commercial game for a long time. In the mid nineties I ran the 2 cycle commercial models and I think that company still runs them.

[blind04]

everyones comments are pretty well justified and correct to my knowledge. but the one thing that would matter most to me is something that i dont think anyone has mentioned. i beleive that the exmark is geared thru its pully system to have the same blade tip speed as its larger lazer z brothers, should be around 18,500 rpms. now if i had to choose between the two and the exmark had a much higher blade speed, i know i would pay the extra money for the higher blade speed. just something to think about.

[Valk]

A 21" blade at 3,600 rpms has a BTS of 19,782 fps...fwiw.

[Roger]

bland04 -- Both 21" mowers are direct drive -- engine to blade. The Exmark 26" mower has a belt/pulley/spindle drive arrangement that permits the engine to run at a higher rpm for the OSHA mandated blade tip speed.

As Valk points out, 3,600 engine rpms makes the tip speed beyond OSHA mandates, so the engines are governed down a bit from their maximum rpm ratings.

[S man]

bland04 -- Both 21" mowers are direct drive -- engine to blade. The Exmark 26" mower has a belt/pulley/spindle drive arrangement that permits the engine to run at a higher rpm for the OSHA mandated blade tip speed.

As Valk points out, 3,600 engine rpms makes the tip speed beyond OSHA mandates, so the engines are governed down a bit from their maximum rpm ratings.

The kawasaki on my 21" exmark runs at 3400 rpms:nono::laugh:

[DLAWNS]

I have the Toro Metro 21" and love it.

[THC]

I have a Toro Heavy duty 21 with BBC and it's just great. Way better then the recyclers and super recyclers which are crap imo unless you only use them 20 hours a month.

Get the bbc. The only problem I have with the heavy duty toro is that you can't fit a plastic bag over the bagger so you have to have a plastic bag inside a garbage can if you are bagging. Plus the blade seems to go dull fast.

[Paradise Yard Service]

Problems with Operator Presence Bail... kicking with your feet to go nuetral, hitting the adjusters with a hammer, tying trimmer line on the handle. Sounds like issues to me...SAFETY isuues. Am I missing something here? Correct me cause I love Toro/Exmark/Lawnboy. Wow, I'm glad I bought the Honda HRC.

Aloha

[aahotard]

I am also considering getting the toro or exmark 21. And maybe even a snapper. I think I will be going with the toro as soon as i can get a deal on one. I have heard too many good things about the toro to consider anything else. I know the mulching on these toro's and exmark's are supposed to be great. Does anyone know how the bag because I would be bagging occasionally also and not just mulching?

[S man]

The toro and exmark bag really good. Stay away from snapper if you plan to do both.

[scagdude]

i say go with the honda 21" commercial unit. at my dealer they are $300 less than toro and my dealer said he rarely has anyone coming in to fix something and he sells about the same number of these as the toros. just my 2 cents.

[JustCut]

It appears Toro is the mower of choice however, It has a height of only 3 1/4 max. I have many customers who wants there lawns cut at 4" now what? HELP!