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sprinkler guy
01-31-2008, 11:37 AM
I have a commercial application that requires something sturdy, yet not the typical, hideous bollard light. I've shown the group I'm working with the Nightscaping La Paloma. Half the room loved it, half said it looked like a 2' x 4' with a light on it. The maintenance guys referenced another building on-site that has some bollards (YUCK!!) they liked. I've been tasked with coming up with something similar, but nicer. I need a bollard that is at least 36" above grade and works with low voltage (too late to pull 120v). I'm trying to be in the $200-250 range (my cost) to stay withing our budget. I would love to find something that has a brass accent or detail on the top end. The complimenting pathway lights are Nightscaping Turtles in brass, and the uplights on the trees are FX in ground RPs with brass louvre tops. The bollards are intended to go on corners as a physical deterrent to keep people from cutting across the planter beds. With the amount of knowledge and experience on this sight, I'm hoping one of you guys can help me out. Thanks for any input.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-31-2008, 11:41 AM
I have catalogs filled with Bollards Sean, but they are all commercial / spec grade units that are not going to fit into your purchase price budget.

Why not increase the budget and do it right? Check out Erco Lighting and Deltalight, even Rudd might have something appropriate.

Remember this... want to build your business, your reputation and improve your bottom line? Use better components, across the board.

Regards.

irrig8r
01-31-2008, 11:49 AM
I'm not a fan of bollards, especially the ones with the shiny inverted cone behind the lens.. and I'm also not a big fan of aluminum fixtures.

These might be too pricey, eh?

http://www.beachsidelighting.com/index.php?cPath=2

sprinkler guy
01-31-2008, 01:12 PM
I have catalogs filled with Bollards Sean, but they are all commercial / spec grade units that are not going to fit into your purchase price budget.

Why not increase the budget and do it right? Check out Erco Lighting and Deltalight, even Rudd might have something appropriate.

Remember this... want to build your business, your reputation and improve your bottom line? Use better components, across the board.

Regards.

This particular application is tricky on the budget side. The design was done with all Turtles for pathways, and the P.O. was awarded based on the original proposal. The bollard idea was an afterthought. I've also been told point blank that there is no more money for this phase of the project. If I can't make something work well, I'll propose leaving it as the original design, and change it next year when the new budget comes into play. This site is almost 200 acres, so we've already put together a couple of proposals for them to squeeze into next years site improvement budget. I feel like the overall final product won't be exactly what they want if I can't make something happen on the bollard side.

I love projects that require decisons by committee.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-31-2008, 01:27 PM
Sean, not being privy to the contract or process is a bit of a crutch for sure, but I would advise you to stick with your original agreement. Any changes, substitutions or alterations should come at an additional cost.

I have that strictly stated in my contracts and stick to it. I hope you do to. Trying to fit in an expensive fixture type like a bollard after the fact and stick to budget is pretty near impossible. Don't waffle and install sub-standard materials just to stick to the budget. Install what you first designed and contracted for. Then accomodate their changes later on another contract.

I also have a statement on my contract that the client has participated in a full and complete walk through of the entire system or has declined this as not necessary. Helps to protect you from the client who will come back later and say they dont like a fixture or want big changes made.

Hope things work out for you there.

Pro-Scapes
01-31-2008, 01:39 PM
the only bollards i know that would come close to your budget are a few from Kichler. Beachside from what i have seen is very well built but quite expensive.

Kim has some too but again your price limitations I would plan ahead on your wiring and infastructure then add on as budget permits.

Kim is sure to have something to please the crowd. Just comes down if they are willing to swallow the price tag.

Lite4
01-31-2008, 06:55 PM
I have used these in the past when your customer is budget conscience. They are Vista 1413 or just 1400 series bollards. These will fit into your cost range of 250. They work pretty well but the neighborhood kids like to kick them. I have only had one torn out of the concrete base we poured.

irrig8r
01-31-2008, 10:00 PM
I had a customer who ran into problems with those... probably because the original installer used them in turf and they were badly damaged by weedeaters/ mowers/ sprinklers in less than 5 years.

Vista covered them under warranty, so the customer went out with his son and installed the replacements but left the original bases (set in concrete) that were corroding badly. :hammerhead:

I'm glad I was only doing sprinkler renovations on that one...

Lite4
01-31-2008, 10:27 PM
These ones are ok. There is no irrigation around them at all so they stay dry.

sprinkler guy
02-01-2008, 12:30 AM
I have used these in the past when your customer is budget conscience. They are Vista 1413 or just 1400 series bollards. These will fit into your cost range of 250. They work pretty well but the neighborhood kids like to kick them. I have only had one torn out of the concrete base we poured.

Unfortunately Tim, we can't run line voltage to our locations, and the Vista family of 12 volt doesn't offer anything tall enough. Also, these will be hit by the irrigation. I'm getting some numbers from the Beachside guy tomorrow. They are a little outside of my target price (his words), but the all brass construction is pretty alluring.

Lite4
02-01-2008, 01:51 AM
Yeah the all brass would be nice. I can see how the powder coating would be a problem under irrigation. Good luck in your search.

sprinkler guy
04-30-2008, 08:36 PM
Hey guys, I'm revisiting this thread based on some recent changes to my commercial job. The budget number is now secondary once the higher ups started to see what a $200-250 bollard light looked like. I've been given the go-ahead to find a good solid light that fits with Northrop Grumman's long term plans to renovate most of the campus. I bought a sample of a Beachside light with mixed results. Everyone loved the beefyness to it, but the traditional shape drew too many sexual inuendos and jokes. Does anyone know of a triangle shaped bollard? Or something else modern looking? I need something low voltage or using an incadescent bulb so I can wire it low-voltage, at least 36" tall, and at least 5" across.
James, you had sent me the link to a couple of cool manu's before. Now that budget is not the primary factor, do you have any more suggestions?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-30-2008, 08:47 PM
Sean... I am super busy right now so I cant spend any time finding a specific fixture for you. I would recommend you search through the offerings at Deltalight and ERCO.

Also, think about doing the bollards in line voltage. LV lighting is not for every application. Know and understand your limits with LV lighting products. I would think that Northrop Grumman can probably afford some really nice spec. grade products, within a system designed and largely installed by a PRO like yourself!

Best of luck, call me if you want to look in other directions...

sprinkler guy
04-30-2008, 10:54 PM
Sean... I am super busy right now so I cant spend any time finding a specific fixture for you. I would recommend you search through the offerings at Deltalight and ERCO.

Also, think about doing the bollards in line voltage. LV lighting is not for every application. Know and understand your limits with LV lighting products. I would think that Northrop Grumman can probably afford some really nice spec. grade products, within a system designed and largely installed by a PRO like yourself!

Best of luck, call me if you want to look in other directions...

Thanks for the quick response, James. Line voltage isn't an option at this point, since the original design had a totally different fixture in place, low-voltage. Physically impossible now unless I want to pay for remove/replace on a lot of concrete, pavers, and newly planted landscape. Hindsight being 20/20, definitely many things learned on this job I will take to future projects:hammerhead:.
Understand now that the weather has turned for you, you're busy, so I appreciate the response. I'm pursuing the ERCO Panorama now as my first choice. Very modern looking, and already low voltage. I just hope the quality is where I need to be.
I'll keep you posted - thanks.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-30-2008, 11:33 PM
Sean that fixture comes with a ELV transformer built in... make sure you specify it without the transformer as you will be using a remote trans. This should help to get the cost down a bit.

NightLightingFX
05-01-2008, 12:48 AM
Try Vision3lighting's bollard path light. The web site is: www.vision3lighting.com/prod4.asp?cid=39&pid=56&lid=128. It is hard to find a distributor that can get it. FOLD can get it for you. I have a picture of a project I did using the fixtures for the driveway. I hope I can post it. I posted the same pic a while back I don't know were it is at and I don't know if this will work.
~Ned

sprinkler guy
05-01-2008, 01:10 AM
Try Vision3lighting's bollard path light. The web site is: www.vision3lighting.com/prod4.asp?cid=39&pid=56&lid=128. It is hard to find a distributor that can get it. FOLD can get it for you. I have a picture of a project I did using the fixtures for the driveway. I hope I can post it. I posted the same pic a while back I don't know were it is at and I don't know if this will work.
~Ned

Thanks Ned. A really nice looking light, but not big enough for my application. I need something 36" tall. I sold something similiar years ago made by BK for a modern house at the beach. Mr homeowner and I referred to them as tombstone lights, but Mrs. Homeowner loved them.

Pro-Scapes
05-01-2008, 01:16 AM
I have the pa7 here and while it is extremly well built and a complete tank that is sure to hold up in the most demanding conditions I think Sean is looking for something a little taller. I will be using the vision 3 bollard on a project sometime later this year but i am unsure if the output is suitable for his commercial application.

Did you look at Kim lighting Sean ? The site lightforms might be just what your looking for. Also look at the bounce bollards from kim as well.

NightLightingFX
05-01-2008, 10:31 AM
Check out, www.dreamscapelighting.com/landscape_specialty.html. I know they are expensive. I expecially like the "Nalu" fixture. I have never used any of their products. I tried to push the Nalu for a job I didn't get.
~Ned

Eden Lights
05-01-2008, 12:04 PM
I have good source on the V3 and have quite few items on hand if anyone needs anything? Shoot me a PM.

NightScenes
05-01-2008, 09:41 PM
I have been using these on special projects for awhile. www.attractionlights.com check em out.

NightLightingFX
05-02-2008, 12:11 AM
Great tip Paul,
I might be able to use those fixtures for my Southwest style home that I have the inside track on.
~Ned

NightScenes
05-02-2008, 07:46 AM
We have a lot of Tuscan style homes in this area where the vine light works quite well. I mostly use the smaller version but have used the 3' tall one on occasion. I still haven't found a place to use that 6' tall obelisk yet.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
05-02-2008, 07:57 AM
Hey Paul, NICE FIND!

Those are some very attractive, decorative fixtures. I can see how one or two might fit very nicely into manicured gardens and even as a focal point down a sightline where none currently exists.

It is pretty rare that I like the looks of most decorative fixtures, but these have some potential.

Have a great day.

NightScenes
05-02-2008, 02:14 PM
James, they are also built like a tank out of square steel tubing!! The natural rust finish allows it to blend into the most rustic of areas or it can be ordered with powder coat which is also very nicely done.