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p0wd3rp1l0t
01-31-2008, 12:50 PM
i am new to fertilizing and spraying but i have some general knowledge. i would like to put a spring, summer, fall fertilizing and weed control program together for some of my clients but i honestly dont know where to start. i have been reading for a little while on here but most of the time its over my head and too in depth. i would like to do a 4-5 application program throughout the year-april to october. i would actually really like to talk to someone over the phone about it and ask questions. now i dont need to know all your secrets or anything just looking for a basic outline-someplace to start. any help would be greatly appreciated my cell phone is 715-205-2739 if someone has some spare time to answer a few questions. thanks

magland
01-31-2008, 01:32 PM
A 4 step program you are looking at an app about every 8 weeks or so. A 5 step about every 6-7 weeks depending on when you start. It's rough to do only a 4 step. The 8 weeks between apps is a long time for bad things to happen. Plus you make more money with the additional app.

Since you are thinking 4 or 5 apps, I would start off with pre-emergent + fert on rd 1. Maybe a 2nd app of the same thing rd 2, depending on the type and strength of the pre-emergent. You could also do a straight fert with some slow release on rd 2 if you use a high rate of barricade or dimension. Either merit + fert or a slow release summer fert for rd 3. Slow release fert for rd 4. Then a fall fert for rd 5. I would spray for weeds as needed throughout the season. It will be cheaper than using a weed & feed product.

That's kind of a basic idea. A lot depends on when you start, what pre-emergent you use, grub control if any, and how many apps. I do a 6 step program starting about April 1 ending about Nov 1. Roughly 5-6 weeks between apps.

fertguy2008
01-31-2008, 01:52 PM
Do you have a Lesco, oops I'm sorry, John Deere Landscapes in the neighborhood. Those guys should have some programs they can print out for you.

Hoots
01-31-2008, 02:26 PM
The best way to start is learning the basics through books.

Second thing is contact your local county ag extension agent about becoming licensed.

Every state is different about licensing. Most if not all states allow you to apply fertilizer only without a license, but when you add a pre-emergent or weed and feed (any chemical) you need a license. Again, this is where your agent comes into play.

If you had a license, most of this information is within the training. (timing, what chem to use etc.)

I am not trying to shoot you down, but obtaining a license is a must. If you are reported by a neighbor or kill something, the fines can be pretty steep.

I hope this helps.

Paul Klose
02-01-2008, 04:34 PM
From minneapolis so it should be the same as far as time of season is concerned

4-5 app program based on Lesco products

1st app- 19-0-6 fert w/dimension as the pre-m
2nd app- 32-0-10 fert, spot spray for weeds, new customers(blanket)
3rd app- 32-0-10 fert, spot spray for weeds
4th app- 33-0-17 fert, blanket weed control, you do have the option of tank mixing to cut down on labor cost
5th app(optional) 33-0-17 DO NOT TANK MIX or a 46-0-0

this is tried and true with the highest retention rate
let me know if you want a call to explain further

p0wd3rp1l0t
02-04-2008, 12:01 PM
thanks paul thats what i was looking for i just didnt know where to look-i am not good with these computers but i know some of you are and know where to find the information

Whitey4
02-04-2008, 03:37 PM
I agree that a 5 app program is best, but Wisconsin has a shorter growing season.... if carefully planned, 4 apps could work with enough slow release N I think.

I seperate my preM from my first fert application. I like to get my first app down at green up, and wait until the forsythia bloom drop is nearly over for the pre M. That gave me pretty good control last year with only one round of pre emmergent.

rcreech
02-04-2008, 07:21 PM
I seperate my preM from my first fert application. I like to get my first app down at green up, and wait until the forsythia bloom drop is nearly over for the pre M. That gave me pretty good control last year with only one round of pre emmergent.


It is funny that you stated that!

I have had never heard this before last year...and it could be true, but the main indicator of crabgrass control and a very professional approach is to use ground temp and GDD.

I was applying Dimension to one of my customers lawns last year and he told me I was too late to apply a crabgrass preventor because the Forsythia's had already bloomed!

I wasn't sure what to say as I didn't have a clue what he was talking about! So I POLITELY told him that I wasn't sure there was any connection between Forsynthia's and crabgrass but that it was actually still early (as it was still the first week of April) and I also told him that if it made him feel any better that the product I was using has post activity and would work even if I applied a month later.

Just another customer that knows more then us...but I guess long story short, I would use a more scientific/agronomic approach to your crabgrass app rather then the o'l sayings. They are probably not only more accurate, but also it may impress your customer more!

That is just my take!

p0wd3rp1l0t
02-04-2008, 07:25 PM
with me living in wisconsin i dont think i would need to worry bout splitting up the pre aps since the ground doesnt soften up til first week of april

Whitey4
02-04-2008, 07:55 PM
It is funny that you stated that!

I have had never heard this before last year...and it could be true, but the main indicator of crabgrass control and a very professional approach is to use ground temp and GDD.

I was applying Dimension to one of my customers lawns last year and he told me I was too late to apply a crabgrass preventor because the Forsythia's had already bloomed!

I wasn't sure what to say as I didn't have a clue what he was talking about! So I POLITELY told him that I wasn't sure there was any connection between Forsynthia's and crabgrass but that it was actually still early (as it was still the first week of April) and I also told him that if it made him feel any better that the product I was using has post activity and would work even if I applied a month later.

Just another customer that knows more then us...but I guess long story short, I would use a more scientific/agronomic approach to your crabgrass app rather then the o'l sayings. They are probably not only more accurate, but also it may impress your customer more!

That is just my take!

GDD is the best indicator, I agree. I haven't been measuring soil temps, but will add that to my application schedule this year. The pain in the butt with GDD here is that it can really swing from one location to another only 15 miles away. That shows up in the forsythia bloom as well. Being on an island surrounded by warm gulf stream ocean currents on the south shore, and colder wind temps coming from the north and west, the forsythia bloom can be two weeks behind another place even that close together.

The forsythia bloom tends to be a very acurate localized way to know when to apply pre emergent, especially given the local fluctations around here. Unless I take my own min/max temps every day (which I don't) I have to guess at the 14 to 17 day diffeernce between the two locations the cooperative measures at.

rcreech
02-04-2008, 08:15 PM
GDD is the best indicator, I agree. I haven't been measuring soil temps, but will add that to my application schedule this year. The pain in the butt with GDD here is that it can really swing from one location to another only 15 miles away. That shows up in the forsythia bloom as well. Being on an island surrounded by warm gulf stream ocean currents on the south shore, and colder wind temps coming from the north and west, the forsythia bloom can be two weeks behind another place even that close together.

The forsythia bloom tends to be a very acurate localized way to know when to apply pre emergent, especially given the local fluctations around here. Unless I take my own min/max temps every day (which I don't) I have to guess at the 14 to 17 day diffeernce between the two locations the cooperative measures at.

Glad this works for you!

Ground temp is important for germination and GDD can be used to estimate tillering.

I don't keep track of GDD either, as the ground temp/date is all I worry about.

I was just trying to make a point that there are maybe better and more accurate ways to apply pre.

Whitey4
02-04-2008, 08:56 PM
Glad this works for you!

Ground temp is important for germination and GDD can be used to estimate tillering.

I don't keep track of GDD either, as the ground temp/date is all I worry about.

I was just trying to make a point that there are maybe better and more accurate ways to apply pre.

Yeah Rodney, using plant phenological indicators is old school, and there are better methods to use for application timing, but for crabgrass this one is pretty foolproof, except I've heard arguements from WHEN they bloom, to at bloom DROP, to new leaf growth. GDD and soil temps make it a moot arguement.

p0wd3rp1l0t
02-07-2008, 04:43 PM
now say i were to follow paul's suggestion and purchase lesco products. i visited lesco's website and there are so many products i got confused. each item has a 6 digit product number, so wat would someone suggest for each app along with maybe a part number

SILVERSTREAK INC
02-07-2008, 05:05 PM
paul i like your no potash apps haha

save some green baby

OUTLANDER
02-07-2008, 05:23 PM
need some of your customers here,meaning that they would ok such an extensive program...........personally i try getting my customers away from this chemical death of earth,that really isn't needed if maintained correctly,i mean spring and fall is ok...then if problems arise out of control,or (mother nature)..it's handeled in that manner-as needed

Paul Klose
02-08-2008, 08:37 PM
Some people have to run a business, and some people do not. This is the Lawn Care business, not sierra club. We as Lawn Care companies are hired to perform a service that the customer wants, not needs. What the customer wants is the most important. The customer want a green weed-free lawn. Last time I checked both the label and the MN Dept of Ag this companies philosophy is at, probably below the suggested application rates for the common kty bluegrass, and improved kty bluegrass found in 99% of established lawns. I read the posts all the time and chuckle at some of the recommendations and comments say a person from florida gives to a person in Washington. Two totally different climates, maybe same turf type, i don't know. What I do know is my area, and only give advice in regards to my area. Comments about no potash, chemcal death and so on are frightening and delightful at the same time. Frightening that people do not fully understand this industry, and deliightful that people do not understand this industry which makes it good for business. Again, this is a business. You only make money by having customers. The only way to have customers is by providing the service that they want. If a customers wants 4 apps, they'll get four apps. If they want five, they'll get five. If they want six I will kindly explain to them the statistics about their grass and that the Dept of Ag MN and UMN Extension service has done studies on for the past 30 or 40 years about the recommended quantity of nitrogen, phosphorus, and potash for a growing season. Since I apply at 1lb/1000ft every application then the sixth application that that person wants, will not get because I am fully licensed and insure and cannot do it because of that, but the people reading this post already know that!