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View Full Version : JD lesco- bad news all around.


lawn king
01-31-2008, 05:49 PM
Word around the campfire is jd pulled the plug on all the co. trucks for service ctr. & general managers, this in addition to soaring fert prices is bad news for all of us!

lot0210
01-31-2008, 05:58 PM
I know of one golf course super that wont be happy about that. He has the lesco truck at the shop at least once a week

MnLefty
01-31-2008, 08:06 PM
I know of one golf course super that wont be happy about that. He has the lesco truck at the shop at least once a week

The big truck to the golf courses is the "Store on Wheels" which will not be changing... He's talking about the pickups that the guys at the service center drive.

lot0210
01-31-2008, 08:38 PM
Oh.. sorry for the mix up on that. He still wont be happy the prices will be going up not many will be with the limited budgets of public courses and with budget being tied to bonuses being tied to how much is left of the budget at some privet courses like at the course I work at there could me a major swing away from lesco .

rider
01-31-2008, 08:53 PM
they are just being taken away from the personal use side of the equation. the service centers will all still have trucks, still make delivers, they just might have to charge you ten bucks to cover the gas. the manager of the Lesco/JD in my area is shopping for a vehicle, but he said that he has till october, I'm going to hook him up with my chevy dealer

Hissing Cobra
02-01-2008, 12:03 AM
Here we go again........Another thread about Lesco/JDL prices and changes that are being made. There's already about 5 or 6 threads devoted to this but I digress and will explain what's going on.

Yes, the STORE BRANCH MANAGERS, REGIONAL MANAGERS, and sales reps are losing their trucks. They were initially going to lose them this month but John Deere relented and allowed them to keep them for one more year and come next January, they will no longer be allowed to be driven home or used for personal use. This extra year will allow the Managers the necessary time to purchase their own vehicles.

Why are they losing them? Because with 340+ stores nationwide, plus untold amount of Regional Managers and Sales Reps, this equals more than 400 vehicles that Corporate Headquarters has to pay for and insure. Do you realize how much money will be saved? Yes, it was an excellent perk for those who were lucky enough to enjoy it. However, it is one of the reasons why LESCO wasn't making any money. Deliveries will still be able to be made by your local service centers.

The Store On Wheels trucks and the sales reps that visit the golf courses haven't changed at all and will continue to do business as usual.

Fert prices? Nothing new to report here. They've gone up from every vendor due to the astronomical price increases of Natural Gas, Urea, Phosphorus and Potassium. It's NOT just a LESCO/John Deere Landscapes thing.

I didn't mean to be negative in the beginning of this post but everyday we see the same threads posted - just by different people.

Whitey4
02-01-2008, 12:25 AM
I feel badly for the Lesco reps. They try to paint a picture that it's tough all around, but the truck issue aside, I have found that JD/Lesco prices are not competitive with smaller local supply houses. I am a newbie in this biz, and only just certified, but even though Lesco is LESS than a mile away.... I'll be driving 25 minutes for my ferts and other materials. The smaller houses seem (around here) to be much more friendly, much more helpful and don't have an attitude. All of that in direct contrast to my Lesco rep. Could well be just this store, but that's what it is.

There seems to be an attitude at MY local Lesco that even talking to me means they are doing me favors. Nothing in the store is price marked, and they don't know what the prices are until you bring it up ready to buy. How much is this gas can? I dunno... maybe 35 bucks? If this store is anything like the others... buy stock in any public company that competes with them, because they are goin down.

bug-guy
02-01-2008, 07:46 AM
i run a jdl/lesco store and i have small companies that i work with all the time. we will sit and disscuss their products ( and i will help where i can to show them alternatives if possible). i will then ask them to give me a few days to see what i can do price wise for them. i meet again and show them what i come up with ( all the while i tell them that this is what i will try to get for them if they pledge their business to me,and that i would have to go through the proper channels to program those prices). But i remind them that if they want to use me has their convience store only they will pay convience store prices.

i have had people come by and ask and use my advise. i have checked lawns and talked to homeowners and HOA's for them. and then i see competitor product on their trucks...
and i will admit it pisses me off and i cut them off the info pipeline, and charge them retail when they need it from me.

ask yourselves this would you service a customer on a reg basis for 6.00 per thousand a treatment and then have his neighbor come out and want the 1 treatment he can't do himself at the same 6.00 per 1000 for a 1x only.
It is a business and should be run like one. i have fought for some pricing changes and have gotten them by using the proper channels and having proof to support my complaint.but remember this is a national business and some times things take alittle longer to work out regionally.

also remember you never can tell a posters true story here or in any forum. some people come in and expect to be treated like some who spends several ten's of thousands of $ and actually spend a few hundred, and there are some people here who have hidden agendas.

as far as the truck deal goes it totally an internal issue and will not affect our customers at all and should never have even been talked about in public.

sorry for the rant ... had to get that boulder off my chest

the
bug-guy

PHS
02-01-2008, 08:43 AM
Do you realize how much money will be saved?

That's a great point!! I think I'll run that by my employees today..."Hey guys, I've got a great idea, I'm going to cut everyone's pay by 10%. You may not understand but this is really going to be good for you...do you know how much money I'm going to save?"

Sounds like a good "restructuring" plan i.e. Screw your experienced, knowledgeable employees who cost more until they leave and replace them with newer, less experienced employees who cost less.

I'm glad I read this morning. You reminded me what a great decision I made to leave the corporate rear-ending and go out on my own again :).

I like my local Lesco dealer. I don't buy much from him because I don't have the volume to get a reasonable price but he's a good guy and deserves to be treated better than that.

PHS
02-01-2008, 08:55 AM
as far as the truck deal goes it totally an internal issue and will not affect our customers at all and should never have even been talked about in public.

You're probably right, if the good employees stay I wouldn't notice the difference but it's nice to know what kind of an operation I'm giving my hard earned dollars to.

fertguy2008
02-01-2008, 09:12 AM
That's a great point!! I think I'll run that by my employees today..."Hey guys, I've got a great idea, I'm going to cut everyone's pay by 10%. You may not understand but this is really going to be good for you...do you know how much money I'm going to save?"

Sounds like a good "restructuring" plan i.e. Screw your experienced, knowledgeable employees who cost more until they leave and replace them with newer, less experienced employees who cost less.

I'm glad I read this morning. You reminded me what a great decision I made to leave the corporate rear-ending and go out on my own again :).

I like my local Lesco dealer. I don't buy much from him because I don't have the volume to get a reasonable price but he's a good guy and deserves to be treated better than that.

Thanks for that. Whoever your Lesco Rep is he appreciates it.
I also work at a Lesco Service Center. We do go out on the on-site consults, we try to come up with budget conscience solutions for our customers.
We try our best to get the best prices for our customers.
From the competitive information we have gotten this year, we are not too far off from the competitors prices on granular ferts. We actually rec'd word yesterday that Urea will go down a little in production cost and P and K are going to rise again.
Bottom line is that small house or large corp. prices are going up so significantly that everyone is going up. Best advice I can offer is purchase from who you feel most comfortable with.
On the truck issue, I recently had to go get a DOT Physical because our location will be receiving one of the large Isuzu Trucks (I do not know when we will get it) JDL has been using for their deliveries. Yeah, it will be different for the Lesco Long timers who have used the company vehicles on a personal level. But from a customer standpoint, service center deliveries should eventually improve. Instead of only being able to bring two pallets of product at a time, service centers will be able to bring more if needed.

LB1234
02-01-2008, 09:13 AM
I feel badly for the Lesco reps. They try to paint a picture that it's tough all around, but the truck issue aside, I have found that JD/Lesco prices are not competitive with smaller local supply houses. I am a newbie in this biz, and only just certified, but even though Lesco is LESS than a mile away.... I'll be driving 25 minutes for my ferts and other materials. The smaller houses seem (around here) to be much more friendly, much more helpful and don't have an attitude. All of that in direct contrast to my Lesco rep. Could well be just this store, but that's what it is.

There seems to be an attitude at MY local Lesco that even talking to me means they are doing me favors. Nothing in the store is price marked, and they don't know what the prices are until you bring it up ready to buy. How much is this gas can? I dunno... maybe 35 bucks? If this store is anything like the others... buy stock in any public company that competes with them, because they are goin down.


I had a similar experience with lesco. I went to a lesco store and let me tell you the freakin place was a damn war zone. It was a disgrace how messy and full of filth it was. And like you the salesman was like..I've never seen you in here, you don't by a lot, I have more important things to do.

Lesco then opened one closer to me...let me tell you what a difference. I get greeted by my first name every time I step foot into the place. They give me the time of day even if I'm going in for some suggestions or pricing. They help load my truck even if there are customers waiting. Just a totally different atmosphere. Its like black and white between the tow stores.

BTW, I had to run to the store I can't stand on a few more occasions due to its proximity. Each freakin time the place was a pigsty.

Hoots
02-01-2008, 09:15 AM
That's a great point!! I think I'll run that by my employees today..."Hey guys, I've got a great idea, I'm going to cut everyone's pay by 10%. You may not understand but this is really going to be good for you...do you know how much money I'm going to save?"

Sounds like a good "restructuring" plan i.e. Screw your experienced, knowledgeable employees who cost more until they leave and replace them with newer, less experienced employees who cost less.

I'm glad I read this morning. You reminded me what a great decision I made to leave the corporate rear-ending and go out on my own again .

I like my local Lesco dealer. I don't buy much from him because I don't have the volume to get a reasonable price but he's a good guy and deserves to be treated better than that.
PHS-Everything you said, I second.

I am sure what JD Landscapes is dong is the exact same thing my current employer is doing. I still work at a golf course as an assistant superintendent until I go solo with my lawn care.
An investment company purchased my employers company, is taking away the head superintendents truck, changed medical insurance providers, limited accrued vacation days from 4 weeks to 3 weeks max, discontinued matching company investments, and is attempting to eliminate scheduled overtime. (we work 7 days per week-off early Friday-for 40 hours) The first attempt at 7/40 did not work but their wheels are turning to make it happen.
All of these reductions were made with no increase in pay, so essentially we all took a big pay cut.

medical insurance=$50/month added employee expense
investment matching=loss of 20% company matched investment
superintendent vehicle purchase=$15,000+/- to replace with personal base model truck.
3 weeks paid vacation instead of 4 weeks

All of this was done so the company can try to show a profit quickly after the purchase. These things are done by people who do not know who we are, how our families survive, and could care less. These corporate people are in the same boat as the politicians-they have no clue about you and I.

JD Landscapes is no different. They are trying to show a profit quickly. There is a possibility that some of these things will come back over time, but I would not hold my breath.

Victor
02-01-2008, 11:47 AM
i run a jdl/lesco store and i have small companies that i work with all the time. we will sit and disscuss their products ( and i will help where i can to show them alternatives if possible). i will then ask them to give me a few days to see what i can do price wise for them. i meet again and show them what i come up with ( all the while i tell them that this is what i will try to get for them if they pledge their business to me,and that i would have to go through the proper channels to program those prices). But i remind them that if they want to use me has their convience store only they will pay convience store prices.

i have had people come by and ask and use my advise. i have checked lawns and talked to homeowners and HOA's for them. and then i see competitor product on their trucks...
and i will admit it pisses me off and i cut them off the info pipeline, and charge them retail when they need it from me.

ask yourselves this would you service a customer on a reg basis for 6.00 per thousand a treatment and then have his neighbor come out and want the 1 treatment he can't do himself at the same 6.00 per 1000 for a 1x only.
It is a business and should be run like one. i have fought for some pricing changes and have gotten them by using the proper channels and having proof to support my complaint.but remember this is a national business and some times things take alittle longer to work out regionally.

also remember you never can tell a posters true story here or in any forum. some people come in and expect to be treated like some who spends several ten's of thousands of $ and actually spend a few hundred, and there are some people here who have hidden agendas.

as far as the truck deal goes it totally an internal issue and will not affect our customers at all and should never have even been talked about in public.

sorry for the rant ... had to get that boulder off my chest

the
bug-guy

I have to tell you Bug-Guy, I couldn't disagree more with your stance on this issue. I can definitely understand why JDL/Lesco would charge customers who purchase less product from them more than they charge frequent customers, but it's been my experience that if you fall into the first category I mentioned, JDL/Lesco will hit you with rates that could only be accurately described as price-gouging! Absolutely ridiculous prices that no one in their right mind would pay.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, your pricing structure is different than mine. I really don't know. Let me pose this question to you though. What does it say about your pricing structure, when the salesmen at my local JDL/Lesco store have told me that they don't blame me for not buying any fertilizer from them because the prices are so ridiculous? That says it all right there. Anytime I go in there to buy a non-fertilizer item and ask for a price on a blend of fert, they get that crazy look on their faces, they cringe and then they tell me the price while shaking their heads.

Even when I was a new customer with my local (non-Lesco) suppliers, the prices they offered me are very competitive. Why would I want to spend over $20 on a bag of fert, when I could get a bag with the same analysis from another vendor for over $7 less? Sometimes, the price difference is greater than $10! Absolutely crazy!

I see JDL/Lesco as a sinking ship. I honestly don't see how a company with so many issues can survive. With so many unhappy customers and a highly-flawed pricing structure (among other issues), I'm convinced the company you work for is living on borrowed time. Time will tell.

Now that fert prices have gone up so drastically, I think contractors will be much more discerning about what suppliers they give their business to. I such an environment, I can't see JDL/Lesco having a chance.

summitlawncare
02-01-2008, 01:45 PM
OK... although this has been discussed over and over again. Here is my opinion on things. Those of you that are talking about bad experiences at Lesco must just have the unfortunate luck of having a bad SC manager. Because I have been in a few lescos around here and have had nothing but good experiences. Yes, even though I dont buy but a few hundred dollars of product from them a year. I have even been in there on a saturday before when a homeowner walked in and they treated them no differently than a huge customer. So I wouldnt blanket all Lescos to be that way, if you havent been to them all. Also, I think the thing that is frustrating to Lesco employees who will lose their trucks, is that JD has no plans to compensate them for the loss of this benefit. SO bascially when you take into consideration gas, insurance, and car payment, they are losing between an $8k to $10k benefit per year. That would be like you bigger service guys that have QC and managers, etc. going to them and saying sorry guys I am going to cut your pay $10k per year just so I can be more profitable. DO you think they would be really happy??? Probably not....

magland
02-01-2008, 02:10 PM
also remember you never can tell a posters true story here or in any forum. some people come in and expect to be treated like some who spends several ten's of thousands of $ and actually spend a few hundred, and there are some people here who have hidden agendas.


And others who make excuses for why their company cares less and less about the lawn care owner. And a current employee of Lesco wouldn't have an agenda? I would say far more than anyone else on here. As customers, we care about service and price. Not company restructuring, downsizing, mergers, marketing plans, and employee benefits.

Victor
02-01-2008, 02:56 PM
I respect your admiration of the company Summit, but from what I've experienced, as well as the overwhelming majority of others I've spoken to about their experiences with that company, I think your favorable opinion of them is the exception, not the standard.

Jerry Andersen, who frequents this forum was just telling me about how he spent over $7,000 with Lesco last year in the span of 2 months. When he asked for a price quote on a gallon jug of Q4, he was told his price would be $170!!!!!!!!!!

I told him to go to the supplier I used and ask for a quote. When he did, he was quoted a price of $104. He had never purchased a thing from my supplier and was quoted a price that was $70 dollars cheaper for the exact, same product! There's absolutely no excuse for this.

Bandit 1
02-01-2008, 03:21 PM
from vic's website

"Sign up today and not only will you receive a free blanket weed-control application, you'll also receive your first fertilizer application for just $19.95! (call for details)."

lowballer:dizzy:

Victor
02-01-2008, 04:09 PM
from vic's website

"Sign up today and not only will you receive a free blanket weed-control application, you'll also receive your first fertilizer application for just $19.95! (call for details)."

lowballer:dizzy:

If you want to accuse me of being a lowballer Bandit, please don't hijack this thread. Just start a new thread and accuse me of being one, so I can thoroughly dress you down and expose you as being the goofball you clearly are. :laugh: Thanks

summitlawncare
02-01-2008, 04:19 PM
Vic, I understand what you are saying, and I am not trying to sell JD/Lesco to anyone here, I was just simply telling of some of the experiences I have had with the three I have been to here in OK. I am sure that they have pissed people off here before, and I am sure that if I went to other various locations that I wouldnt have such a great experience. I was just trying to point out that there is no way someone can say that every SC, that has a Lesco name on it, is going to be run or handled the same way. Just like any other industry, the day to day operations and the reputation a company gets is from the people that run the stores. And not all of Lesco's stores are run by people who could care less about the little guy or the guy who doesnt spend thousands of dollars a month with them. And lets face it, no one would ever question the fact that Lesco is higher than almost everyone out there. I would not dispute that the least bit. It has been that way for years. But I just wanted to mention that fact that there are some decent people who run some of their stores out there. And that anyone who is told they are going to have to give up an approximate $10k / year in their salary and not get compensated for it, is not the right thing to do. I think that they will lose quite a few people over this.

americanlawn
02-01-2008, 04:30 PM
from vic's website

"Sign up today and not only will you receive a free blanket weed-control application, you'll also receive your first fertilizer application for just $19.95! (call for details)."

lowballer:dizzy:

The above statement tells me that you are not as familiar with his business as I am. I wish all members had his reputation for honesty & quality of service. Next time you make a post like this, you may want to think twice. My two cents worth.:usflag:

Victor
02-01-2008, 04:50 PM
While my business doesn't hold a candle to yours, or a lot of others on here, I appreciate the good words none the less. Thank you. It will be interesting to see if Bandit has the nerve to start a new thread on this topic, so I can see him try to defend his statement. I'm betting he won't.

Victor
02-01-2008, 04:59 PM
Vic, I understand what you are saying, and I am not trying to sell JD/Lesco to anyone here, I was just simply telling of some of the experiences I have had with the three I have been to here in OK. I am sure that they have pissed people off here before, and I am sure that if I went to other various locations that I wouldnt have such a great experience. I was just trying to point out that there is no way someone can say that every SC, that has a Lesco name on it, is going to be run or handled the same way. Just like any other industry, the day to day operations and the reputation a company gets is from the people that run the stores. And not all of Lesco's stores are run by people who could care less about the little guy or the guy who doesnt spend thousands of dollars a month with them. And lets face it, no one would ever question the fact that Lesco is higher than almost everyone out there. I would not dispute that the least bit. It has been that way for years. But I just wanted to mention that fact that there are some decent people who run some of their stores out there. And that anyone who is told they are going to have to give up an approximate $10k / year in their salary and not get compensated for it, is not the right thing to do. I think that they will lose quite a few people over this.

You know that I respect you and your admiration for JDL/Lesco. The only thing that troubles me is the fact that I, like many other people I know, have been told numerous times by Lesco salesmen, that they can't cut prices for me. They always have told me that they can only sell me their products at predesignated prices they've been told to sell their products at. I'm not inclined to believe that they were lying when they told me that, because the cashier at Wal-Mart can't cut me a break on prices either. Logic would lead me to believe that the salesmen at Lesco don't have anymore control over the prices they have to charge than a cashier at another national chain, like Wal-Mart would.

americanlawn
02-01-2008, 05:11 PM
While my business doesn't hold a candle to yours, or a lot of others on here, I appreciate the good words none the less. Thank you. It will be interesting to see if Bandit has the nerve to start a new thread on this topic, so I can see him try to defend his statement. I'm betting he won't.

Victor --- I just tried to set things straight. That's all. I don't consider my business better than yours whatsoever. Hopefully nearly equal, cuz it ain't about size or quantity.....it's about honesty and service. L.

Mason here .............ditto. We don't slambast anyone here unless they piss us off. Nobody's piised us off here, just pointeinf out the truth.

Marcos
02-01-2008, 07:00 PM
they are just being taken away from the personal use side of the equation. the service centers will all still have trucks, still make delivers, they just might have to charge you ten bucks to cover the gas. the manager of the Lesco/JD in my area is shopping for a vehicle, but he said that he has till october, I'm going to hook him up with my chevy dealer

IF the JD / Lesco employees have been honest all along, it shouldn't make all that much difference in the long run, financially.

I know a fellow that runs a store, and he's told me that all the people who drive pickup trucks have to report personal miles vs. business miles, and document deliveries, appointments, etc.
Employees paid for 'personal' miles, and the 'benefit' of business miles is reported on the employee's tax receipts as taxable income.

But he's also said it's common practice for many JD / Lesco people to fudge the mileage at the end of each month in their favor, as much as they can.

rider
02-01-2008, 08:04 PM
some interesting posts, though I don't equate the personal loss of the company truck as indicative of the direction of the company, just good business sense. none of my employees are allowed a company truck this year, just to expensive in the long run, it was a nice perk, but unfortunately, was abused

on a side note, damn, fertilizer is getting expensive

rider
02-01-2008, 08:07 PM
p.s. saw my first Chemlawn truck out applying today, snow and ice covering the ground, near mansfield ohio

rcreech
02-01-2008, 09:34 PM
from vic's website

"Sign up today and not only will you receive a free blanket weed-control application, you'll also receive your first fertilizer application for just $19.95! (call for details)."

lowballer:dizzy:

Bandit 1,

What the heck! Why are you bashing Victor for his markting? We all do this! Victor runs a very successful business, and is a very smart man!

It's not lowballing...its called marketing!

Only 5 posts and you are acting like this! Way to build respect on here buddy! :hammerhead:

Don't you have any more to add to this site then this crap.....

bug-guy
02-01-2008, 09:52 PM
vic wrote
I have to tell you Bug-Guy, I couldn't disagree more with your stance on this issue. I can definitely understand why JDL/Lesco would charge customers who purchase less product from them more than they charge frequent customers, but it's been my experience that if you fall into the first category I mentioned, JDL/Lesco will hit you with rates that could only be accurately described as price-gouging! Absolutely ridiculous prices that no one in their right mind would pay.

i wrote
i have fought for some pricing changes and have gotten them by using the proper channels and having proof to support my complaint.but remember this is a national business and some times things take alittle longer to work out regionally.

vic
i could not agree with you more that is why i have asked for the pricing to be changed. so that PEOPLE who buy only 20 to 40 bags a year reflect a price more like the big box stores. i have not been refused any price change for COMPANIES that i have requested( and i have asked for alot of them) i wish i won't have to do all the extra paperwork but if that's what i have to do i will do(and believe me i ***** to every boss i can about it). but in the mean time i just keep putting in the requests.
i have one company that has 3-4 small offices and i handle the account because it's corp is in my town. they are shopping and the owner came by and mention that his guy's have spoken up for me and my dedication to helping them. he said he appreciated it and if i could stay close to the comp. he'd stay with me. i just del his feb shot to 2 branches and a neighboring jdl did the other 2.
if any one who does any kind of business with a jdl and can not get any satisfaction, don't blame the company blame the mgr. he either has more business than can handle, or doesn't care to grow his business and if it's the second, plan on seeing a new guy there in the future.

let me say this i worked in the service end of this business for 21+ yrs(fert and squirt) i actually bought chems for the company where i worked.

i have not lost a cust yet do to pricing i actually got two new accounts to commit to shopping with me and one of my sister center. seems down here spring comes earlier like... today (most guy's start their gran apps feb and march) and lo and behold the other guys raised their $ too!
it just seems (down here anyway) they wait for us to set the market and then they try to lo-ball but i think time has caught up with some of them.

this is my advice (and you know what they say about opinions) buy what you feel comfortable selling to your customers. buy from who you like the best and gives you the best price and fills all your needs.and don't trash talk some one you do not buy from.

i have never seen so much discussion from people who do not buy anything from jdl about how bad they are...
kind of like yogi berra (old yankee player) said about a resturant " no body goes there it's too crowded"

i wiss you all well..........
hope all your lawns turn green......
may the fungus happen to someone elses lawns.......

and remember if you don't like what you do
find some thing else to do....
just don't post your complaining here

i know this will stir the pot... to most i apologize
i don't always convey my real thoughts well with written words

vic
no way am i trying to pick a fight with you
i have enjoyed some of your post and look forward to the future one

good luck to all

the
bug-guy

PSUTURFGEEK
02-01-2008, 09:57 PM
[QUOTE=Whitey4;2128356]I feel badly for the Lesco reps. They try to paint a picture that it's tough all around, but the truck issue aside, I have found that JD/Lesco prices are not competitive with smaller local supply houses. I am a newbie in this biz, and only just certified, but even though Lesco is LESS than a mile away.... I'll be driving 25 minutes for my ferts and other materials. The smaller houses seem (around here) to be much more friendly, much more helpful and don't have an attitude. All of that in direct contrast to my Lesco rep. Could well be just this store, but that's what it is.

There seems to be an attitude at MY local Lesco that even talking to me means they are doing me favors. Nothing in the store is price marked, and they don't know what the prices are until you bring it up ready to buy. How much is this gas can? I dunno... maybe 35 bucks? If this store is anything like the others... buy stock in any public company that competes with them, because they are goin down.[/ I agree 100% with the way they do business, the guys that come in for 10bags on monday and then like six or seven a day here and there and then wonder why the pricing sucks,,it's thier own fault, buy a pallet at a time dont just keep chipping away and using lesco as a warehouse when youre gonna use the product anyway, thats the same as the knuckleheads that go to the gas station and buy like a quarter tank of fuel everyday instead of filling up, your'e just spending more time and money by keep going back, it's the samr concept, stop complaining and grow your business, these pricing issues are everywhere and every vendor unless they have old product and when thats gone the prices there will go up to so get prepared and stop complaining.

Whitey4
02-01-2008, 10:37 PM
[QUOTE=Whitey4;2128356]I feel badly for the Lesco reps. They try to paint a picture that it's tough all around, but the truck issue aside, I have found that JD/Lesco prices are not competitive with smaller local supply houses. I am a newbie in this biz, and only just certified, but even though Lesco is LESS than a mile away.... I'll be driving 25 minutes for my ferts and other materials. The smaller houses seem (around here) to be much more friendly, much more helpful and don't have an attitude. All of that in direct contrast to my Lesco rep. Could well be just this store, but that's what it is.

There seems to be an attitude at MY local Lesco that even talking to me means they are doing me favors. Nothing in the store is price marked, and they don't know what the prices are until you bring it up ready to buy. How much is this gas can? I dunno... maybe 35 bucks? If this store is anything like the others... buy stock in any public company that competes with them, because they are goin down.[/ I agree 100% with the way they do business, the guys that come in for 10bags on monday and then like six or seven a day here and there and then wonder why the pricing sucks,,it's thier own fault, buy a pallet at a time dont just keep chipping away and using lesco as a warehouse when youre gonna use the product anyway, thats the same as the knuckleheads that go to the gas station and buy like a quarter tank of fuel everyday instead of filling up, your'e just spending more time and money by keep going back, it's the samr concept, stop complaining and grow your business, these pricing issues are everywhere and every vendor unless they have old product and when thats gone the prices there will go up to so get prepared and stop complaining.

Look geek, I haven't bought squat from anyone yet!

I've gone to 3 supply houses. One ignored me. Lesco tried to. I explained that I was a new company, that I could use some advice, and for that help, I would buy 100% of my materials and other items from them for that kind of assistance. I have $5,000 burning a hole on my pocket for all sorts of things from a broadcast speader, backpack sprayer, PPE, a blower, line trimmer, everthing form the ground up, including pesticide warning signs not to mention a WB mower. That's for starters, and doesn't even include what materials I will buy this year.

Then, they can't even bother to tell me what a stinkin gas can costs. Then I went to a third supply house. They didn't treat me like I was some kind of leper. They were helpful. They answered questions, took an interest in my company. I was looking over their hydro seeders for rent, and saw the Futerra rolls. They took the time to talk about that with me. They, not my local Lesco will get ALL of my business even though Lesco is a mile away and these guys are a 25 minute drive. Not to mention that the prices I did get from Lesco, which was like pulling teeth, are 20 to 30% higher than this supplier!

I'm not complaining.... I'm glad I found out what company will deliver good service at a reasonably competitive price. I would have lived with the Lesco prices if they didn't treat me like a lawn pest.

I don't have storage space. I'm a small solo. I can't buy pallets of stuff for the upcoming year. Go spew yer crap at someone else pal. You compare me to a "knucklehead" that buys a quarter tank of fuel every day? I'm not complaining here at all... just saying why I won't be a Lesco customer. You on the other hand ARE complaining about something you have absolutely no information about.

PS: When you went postal on another poster here, without any reason at all, he didn't "get me to attack" you as you accused him of.... you got those rather mild comments based on what you posted. I think you and BigW ought to go buy some beers for each other. You both go off without any reason whatsoever. You think people are out to get you or something... you just seem to like to pick fights, and blame someone else for starting it all... chill out.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-01-2008, 11:21 PM
Say what you want, but it's the people like you just jumping into an industry ive been in my whole life who screw it up for everyone, just keep posting youre nasty comments but everything I said in my post was the truth,and number two I don't give a rats ass about who you buy your'e couple of bags of fert from each year, Just sit back and learn the business a little b4 going off the deep end about something you have no idea about and other people have been dealing with thier entire lives. and when I say people like you jumping in, I mean get some experience b4 making assumptions about one or two experiences, also in this industry alot of people try to get prices for competition and dealers have to be careful, I could go on forever but it wont help, just keep making your'e comments and I'll keep laughing.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-01-2008, 11:23 PM
time will tell weather it was good or bad for the consumers that use lesco

PSUTURFGEEK
02-01-2008, 11:29 PM
That's excactly right, time will tell if our business as a whole survives the next decade or two, we all need to worry more about the legislation trying to destroy our way of life and take away our industry, we all need to continue to fight this battle and keep up our membership with PLANET, and attend our day on the hill in DC every year or else all these little worries and complaints about a dollar here or there for fert or chemicals will mean nothing to anyone and entire livelyhoods will be changed forever, so instead of bashing youre local fert company do something about the big picture.

rider
02-01-2008, 11:39 PM
time to bring out the boxing gloves:hammerhead:

PSUTURFGEEK
02-01-2008, 11:41 PM
either that or some common sense

Chilehead
02-01-2008, 11:51 PM
I feel badly for the Lesco reps. They try to paint a picture that it's tough all around, but the truck issue aside, I have found that JD/Lesco prices are not competitive with smaller local supply houses. I am a newbie in this biz, and only just certified, but even though Lesco is LESS than a mile away.... I'll be driving 25 minutes for my ferts and other materials. The smaller houses seem (around here) to be much more friendly, much more helpful and don't have an attitude. All of that in direct contrast to my Lesco rep. Could well be just this store, but that's what it is.

There seems to be an attitude at MY local Lesco that even talking to me means they are doing me favors. Nothing in the store is price marked, and they don't know what the prices are until you bring it up ready to buy. How much is this gas can? I dunno... maybe 35 bucks? If this store is anything like the others... buy stock in any public company that competes with them, because they are goin down.

Sorry to hear the way JD treats you. Down here, the JDL stores that had been around for years always employed snobs who thought they were better than you, and always had to prove their "superior" intellect. The Lesco stores were the complete opposite for me--warm, friendly, knowledgeable, and courteous.

Whitey4
02-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Say what you want, but it's the people like you just jumping into an industry ive been in my whole life who screw it up for everyone, just keep posting youre nasty comments but everything I said in my post was the truth,and number two I don't give a rats ass about who you buy your'e couple of bags of fert from each year, Just sit back and learn the business a little b4 going off the deep end about something you have no idea about and other people have been dealing with thier entire lives. and when I say people like you jumping in, I mean get some experience b4 making assumptions about one or two experiences, also in this industry alot of people try to get prices for competition and dealers have to be careful, I could go on forever but it wont help, just keep making your'e comments and I'll keep laughing.

My nasty comments, eh? YOU went off the deep end. Now, and I've seen you do it before. Now I'm screwing up YOUR industry? I am not "jumping in" with assumpltions... again, you are, not me. I have never said or would ven be so presumptuous as to say whether or not anyone should buy anything from whomever. I just related MY experience, with ONE Lesco store. To you, I'm some sort of idiot with a wild hair up my arse.

You have no clue what my background or level of experience is, outside of being newly certified and with a new business. You are right... you could go on forever, and it won't "help". I have yet to see a single post form you that was informative without some venom spewed into it for good measure.

You call me a knucklhead, and accuse me of saying nasty comments? All of these little wars you wage are started by YOU. THEN, you accuse others of being nasty? You are delusional. Go hang out with bigw, the other guy with a pusecution complex here. Must be a Pennsylvania thing.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-01-2008, 11:59 PM
Nothing I said was wrong, you just take it that way because you don't know any better thats all youll learn someday, and it was you trashing youre distributer, not me look at the posts you just keep coming with more nonsense. every word I said was the truth,ask anyone in this business and they will tell you the same thing it doesn't matter where you buy your'e product it's gonna be that way, the people who buy alot of product are always gonna get better pricing than people who don't, as far as the attitude they gave you, I don't know what that's about, and I never actually called you a knucklehead you just took it personal like it was meant for you, I was saying that the people who chip away at fuel a little everyday knowing the next day they will have to put more fuel in intead of filling the tank, now anyone would agree with that, and as far as taking a pallet at a time I never said you have to do that and have stirage for it theres plenty of other things you can workout with youre dealer as far as paying upfront for product your gonna use anyway and getting a better price, so what out of everything I said doesn't make sense?

Victor
02-02-2008, 12:42 AM
I don't know how things are in your neck of the woods, so I can't speak on that, but my illustration about how my friend Jerry Andersen bought over $7,000 worth of product from Lesco ( in a two month time frame) last year, but they still tried to charge him $170 for a gallon jug of Q4, that he was able to buy from my supplier for $104. Like I said in that earlier illustration, Jerry had never purchased a thing from my supplier, yet he was quoted a price that was $70 dollars cheaper than a vendor (Lesco) that he had just given over $7,000 of his money in a two month span. If that doesn't show you that you're "spend more and you'll get good prices with Lesco" theory is untrue, I don't think anything will.

Whitey's a good guy. Take it easy on him. He may be new to the applications side of the industry, but that doesn't mean he's not due the same respect you'd show a highly experienced applicator. Come on.

Victor
02-02-2008, 12:44 AM
As far as I'm concerned, when you look at how they treated Jerry, they deserve to be trashed. Not the guys that work at my local Lesco, but the system they work under that causes them to consistently quote such ridiculous prices. That's the real problem here.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-02-2008, 12:47 AM
Do you really think the way he keeps lashing out is ok??? But what I say is wrong??? ok thats fine I understand, and as far as the q4 goes that can happen with any supplier in reverse on another product that a particular vendoe gets a better buying price from PBI gordons, this happens in this business, once again an isolated issue.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-02-2008, 12:51 AM
As far as I'm concerned, when you look at how they treated Jerry, they deserve to be trashed. Not the guys that work at my local Lesco, but the system they work under that causes them to consistently quote such ridiculous prices. That's the real problem here.

I hope you don't think I care if you bash a certain dealer, I don't care who you bash, just dont bash me for being on top of whats really going on in our industry

PSUTURFGEEK
02-02-2008, 12:53 AM
Instead of trashing Lesco on this site, be a real man and go talk to your'e rep and put him in his place the same way you do with your'e keyboard on this site.

Victor
02-02-2008, 12:58 AM
Like Whitey, I did think some of the things you said were wrong. For example, you were digging at him for being new to the business. You did make some heavy-handed comments that seemed to be pointed in his direction. I could be wrong as all get out, but it sure seemed to me like you were talking down to him and he was merely standing up for himself. I don't blame him for his rebuttal.

Just because someone's company isn't big enough to justify buying pallet quantities, doesn't mean it's alright for their vendor to declare open season on their pocketbook. There are quite a few outfits that would be foolish to buy their fert in such large quantities.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-02-2008, 01:03 AM
I agree, but like any fert dealer in the nation it's also not fair to the loyal guys who built a strong business for many years and a start up guy comes walking in and gets similar pricing as the guy who has hung in for all those years with that dealer. oh yeah everythinf he said was just in self defense your right.

Victor
02-02-2008, 01:20 AM
I agree, but like any fert dealer in the nation it's also not fair to the loyal guys who built a strong business for many years and a start up guy comes walking in and gets similar pricing as the guy who has hung in for all those years with that dealer. oh yeah everythinf he said was just in self defense your right.

Good. Then at least we agree on that point.

My stance on this whole issue Geek, is that Lesco can charge whatever they want to charge. I don't care if they want to charge guys who pull up in white trucks twice what they charge guys who pull up in green ones. I'm just saying that if practices like that have to be lumped into the pile of reasons I don't think the company will be around much longer.

Every scrap of news I've gotten about that company tells me that they're probably heading into some really scary, uncharted waters. Experiences like the one I recounted just reinforce my opinion. It is just my opinion though and I admit that. That's all. I don't have any means to accurately judge how common, or rare experiences like mine, or Jerry Andersen's are. With that in mind, there might be less parts of the machine that need fixing than I think.

Hissing Cobra
02-02-2008, 01:21 AM
I feel badly for the Lesco reps. They try to paint a picture that it's tough all around, but the truck issue aside, I have found that JD/Lesco prices are not competitive with smaller local supply houses. I am a newbie in this biz, and only just certified, but even though Lesco is LESS than a mile away.... I'll be driving 25 minutes for my ferts and other materials. The smaller houses seem (around here) to be much more friendly, much more helpful and don't have an attitude. All of that in direct contrast to my Lesco rep. Could well be just this store, but that's what it is.

There seems to be an attitude at MY local Lesco that even talking to me means they are doing me favors. Nothing in the store is price marked, and they don't know what the prices are until you bring it up ready to buy. How much is this gas can? I dunno... maybe 35 bucks? If this store is anything like the others... buy stock in any public company that competes with them, because they are goin down.

We're not trying to paint any picture. We're just sticking up for ourselves because of people like you, who do nothing but bash us. How come it's only LESCO/JOHN DEERE that's getting bashed - there's only 5 or 6 threads about the same goddam topic? Did we really need to start another? Prices have risen from EVERYBODY, yet we bear the brunt of the attack? Give me a break.

If you think your pricing is high, go back to your local LESCO/JOHN DEERE LANDSCAPES and tell them. Let them know what their competitor is going to sell it to you for and make sure that you're comparing Apples to Apples - and that includes the size of the bags, the amount of slow release, and the active ingredient - if it's a combination product. On some items, we cannot compete with prices. However, some of our competitors cannot compete on some of our prices either.

This thread isn't about customer pricing at all. It's about idiots who like to bash a company that was LOSING money and sold out to a company that knows how to turn a profit. Changing things to become more successful can only help us in the long run. To those employees who don't want to accept this change, they will be gone. To those employees who don't want to take care of their customers and do the job to the best of their ability, they will also be gone. If we come into work and do our jobs, YOU, the customer, will be happy, we'll be happy and most of all, our employer will be happy.

Victor
02-02-2008, 01:30 AM
You really frustrate me sometimes. You really do seem to have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to this industry. I have no doubts that you could deliver one heck of a dissertation on almost any topic pertaining to lawns and any biology that's contained within them. I just think you lose a lot of credibility when you come off the way you do sometimes. When people who frequent this forum take the things you say the wrong way, I think it's only natural that they shut down on you. I think it's a shame, because you have so much to offer. You know a lot more about this industry that I ever will. That's for sure.

You can obviously say whatever you want to say, or however you want to say it. If you do care how you're viewed by others here though, maybe it would be a good idea for you to look at how the things you say can and will be interpreted. This IS the internet after all Geek. It's obvious that tonal inflections can't be used to determine the context of certain statements that magically appear on the monitors in front of all of us.

Hissing Cobra
02-02-2008, 01:35 AM
That's a great point!! I think I'll run that by my employees today..."Hey guys, I've got a great idea, I'm going to cut everyone's pay by 10%. You may not understand but this is really going to be good for you...do you know how much money I'm going to save?"

Sounds like a good "restructuring" plan i.e. Screw your experienced, knowledgeable employees who cost more until they leave and replace them with newer, less experienced employees who cost less.

You have no idea what you're even talking about. They are NOT cutting anyone's pay. Taking away a vehicle that the COMPANY owns is not giving someone a pay cut. One of the reasons why LESCO was losing money, was because of this unneccesary perk. If a company is LOSING money and it is sold, the first thing that will happen, is that the excess, needless expenses will go. Trimming the fat and keeping overhead low is learned in in business 101. Correct? Do all of YOUR employees have a company vehicle that YOU pay for? I highly doubt it. If they did, you would be out of business.

You are probably correct that this is a "restructuring". However, not for the reason that you give. This is NOT meant to "screw our most experienced, knowledgeable employees who cost more until they leave and replace them with newer, less experienced employees who cost less." We NEED those knowledgeable employees as that's what helps to establish business relationships and also helps to gain and keep customers coming back into our stores. Getting rid of them is the worst thing that we could do. Wouldn't you rather deal with a knowledgeable LESCO/John Deere rep, than with a non-experienced LESCO/John Deere rep? I'd like to think so.

Whitey4
02-02-2008, 01:36 AM
This is really very simple. I had a bad experience with ONE Lesco store. I never bashed JD or Lesco as a company, with the caveat of saying if this is how they run all their stores, they are in trouble, in my obvi9usly worthless opinion. I specifically said it was just MY experience with just ONE store, and even said I would pay MORE to that store if I felt like I was being helpfully advised in the process. I was willing to pay a premium for helpful service and how closeby it was.

That makes me an idiot, a knucklehead. I NEVER said it was about pricing until I was treated like dirt at MY LOCAL Lesco!! I didn't bash Lesco, I bashed THIS store. I did say that if this was typical, I think Lesco is going to be in trouble. Then I found a company that has lower prices, were very helpful, and didn't treat me like dirt. OK, so if that make s me an idiot, or a knucklehaed so be it. That is exactly the attitude I got at my local Lesco.... so you are pretty much digging your own hole here. Seems to be a corpoarte culture.... if you don't like us, YOU SUCK! I wonder how many customers I would have if that is how I approached them.

Victor
02-02-2008, 01:39 AM
I have yet to find a vendor in Central Ohio that approaches the prices Lesco tries to charge me for the exact same products I can get elsewhere for much better prices (see my Q4 example). I'm just stating facts.

Am I crying to high-heaven, because of their prices? Not at all. I just elect to do business with someone else. I do have a right to talk about how ridiculous their prices are. If anyone else approached the sky-high pricing structure they have, I'd be talking about them too. My ridicule has nothing to due with angst. It's all about how stupid it is to try and charge me so much for products, when I can head down the road and buy the exact same product for so much less.

While it's true that everyone has increased their prices, the suppliers I DO use still offer prices that are much lower than Lesco's prices were before the price hikes began.

Victor
02-02-2008, 01:43 AM
It's obvious you're no idiot. I think you've made some really good points. I agree with you on the whole stance where you said that you can only speak on the store, or stores you HAVE dealt with as can I. I think you did a good job of making that clear.

Chilehead
02-02-2008, 09:00 AM
Man, you guys have really got me entertained. "You're wrong!" "No I'm not, and you're a moron!" "Hey quit calling me names, I'm right and YOU'RE wrong!" "Waa-a-a! I can't take it so I have to prove that I AM right and YOU in fact are WRONG!" My God! No wonder movements like Project Evergreen were created! People like you completely detract professionalism from the industry. Why don't you try handling the situation like businessMEN instead of whiny little sissies? Do you really think any of you are going to change the other's mind? Get real! And while you're at it, grow up(It'll help you in business too).

lawn king
02-02-2008, 09:32 AM
Let me chime in here as i started this thread, and its getting heated and was not intended to turn into WW3. My opening statement bad news was my personal opinion of the direction lesco is heading since JD came in. I dont hate lesco at all in fact i have done business with them for close to 30 years. What i dont like is bringing a machine back multiple times in 1 week for the same repair, i dont like obscene interest rates on chemicals i have on acct & i dont like it when they ship me the wrong product. This is about the future of doing business with lesco and how it effects us all, so relax, treat each other with respect and add ONLY costructively to this thread or im going to have 1 majortom remove it!

KeystoneLawn&Landscaping
02-02-2008, 09:41 AM
I agree with alot of what Vic is saying. My Lesco stores employees are great, but the prices are excessive for a new guy like myself who isn't buying much at this point. Even checking there pricing for product by the skid they are high. I don't buy from a box store. I buy from a local landscape supply company that stocks fert supplies from The Andersons, who have been in business for 60 years and their products give great results. Again let me say, the Lesco employees at my local store are great and have been very helpful, just doesn't make business sense for me to buy fert supplies from them. I have bought other things from them that the price was right on!

PHS
02-02-2008, 09:58 AM
You have no idea what you're even talking about. They are NOT cutting anyone's pay. Taking away a vehicle that the COMPANY owns is not giving someone a pay cut.

I guess it depends on what your definition of 'IT' is :). Do you have any idea how shallow that sounds to the loyal employees who are getting the vehicle ripped from them. Somehow I don't think they are going to see it the same way you do. The IRS doesn't see it the same way either when they tax personal use of a company vehicle as a form of income. I forgot, you probably aren't paying those either, 'cost cutting measures', I understand.

If a company is LOSING money and it is sold, the first thing that will happen, is that the excess, needless expenses will go. Trimming the fat and keeping overhead low is learned in in business 101. Correct?

Again, even if you're right and you are in this case, nobody who's getting screwed cares what your problems are and how you rationalize it. I have a family to support and budgets are tight. If I have to buy a vehicle that I didn't have to pay for before that's a good incentive for people to get up and walk away. So when you say...

We NEED those knowledgeable employees as that's what helps to establish business relationships and also helps to gain and keep customers coming back into our stores. Getting rid of them is the worst thing that we could do.

It's just more hollow corporate rhetoric in an effort to convince your employees to feel good about their shafting and a pathetic attempt to keep a few of them from leaving.


Wouldn't you rather deal with a knowledgeable LESCO/John Deere rep, than with a non-experienced LESCO/John Deere rep? I'd like to think so.

Yes I would, but saying you want to keep good employees and actually doing something to keep them around are two different things.

You can say I don't know what I'm talking about but I've been on both sides of the aquisition table too. I've had benefits and perks taken away from me and I've had to give the same meaningless speaches to my employees/friends and watch them walk out pissed off at me. The business world is a cruel, unfriendly place sometimes. I'm so happy to be solo again :).

PHS
02-02-2008, 10:02 AM
Sorry Lawn King, I didn't see your last post. You're right, I'll make that one my last unnecessarily sarcastic post.

Marcos
02-02-2008, 12:19 PM
[QUOTE=Whitey4;2128356] Nothing in the store is price marked, and they don't know what the prices are until you bring it up ready to buy. How much is this gas can? I dunno... maybe 35 bucks?

Lesco hasn't put prices on many things in their stores because the prices on a lot of things can change up or down somewhat, depending upon what 'size' customer you are, or if you are a preferred 'national' account, a "Symbiot" customer, or whatever...

Victor
02-02-2008, 01:31 PM
Both of you made really good points. I couldn't agree more. Keystone, you've handled the situation the exact same way I do. I just head down the road to another supplier who will sell me the products I need for a much more competitive price. Lesco has every right to charge whatever they want for their products, just like I have every right to elect to do business elsewhere like you do.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-02-2008, 09:22 PM
All of these points are great and I think it works for everyone, and I'm very sure Lesco/JDL is happy also to lose some of these difficult to deal with customers, it's not really good for thier business to have these unhappy ex customers coming in and complaining and bringing everyones moral down including current customers and employees, I've seen this happen b4 and always remember those other suppliers are gonna raise thier prices at some point and I wouldn't expect those Lesco employees to open up thier arms and welcome those people back very quickly. This is not directed at anyone in this thread personally, I just feel alot people don't understand what is going on with our industry right now and how these raw materials cost is gonna catch up to everyone, The dealers who are selling low right now are just trying to jump on new business at super low margins, the way this works is Lesco employees can only go down to a certain price, lets just say thats the floor for that product, whatever that margin may be is pre determined, right now other dealer reps are deciding they rather get some volume business short term and sell at like a 1-4% margin for example and then at some point that margin along with your prices will go up, I'm not trashing these other dealers or Lesco for prices being up on some stuff, just trying to explain whats going on.

Victor
02-02-2008, 10:48 PM
I understand and really do appreciate the point you're trying to make here Geek. While I do feel that I understand your stance on this subject, my stance is that the people you've coined as being difficult to deal with, are actually customers that refuse to be ripped off. I also think they're making a wise decision.

My point about avoiding the act of being ripped off is further reinforced by the fact that the salesmen at my local Lesco store tell me that the prices they quote me are crazy and that they'd also shop elsewhere if they were me. When comments like that come straight from the horses mouth (Lesco salesmen), that really says something.

The suppliers I deal with have been around for quite some time. They're not recent start-ups by any stretch. They've also always been noticeably lower on price than Lescco has been on similar products, as well as identical products. Because of their history of being noticeably lower on price compared to Lesco, I'm left with no reason to expect them to change that tendency. While it's true that the suppliers I use have been raising their prices recently like everyone else, they've stayed incrementally lower than Lesco on price. In fact, I'll venture to say that the prices my suppliers are charging for their products now, are still lower than the prices I was quoted by Lesco for those products before the recent jump in industry prices.

As I'm sure you know Geek, being a businessman requires you to wear a multitude of hats. One of those hats, says "control spending" right across the front of it. Any businessman that doesn't keep a tight rein on spending stands a good chance of working for someone else before they know it. To use the Q4 example I used in my earlier posts; When I'm faced with the choice of paying $170 for a gallon jug of Q4, or paying $104 for the exact same gallon jug elsewhere, it only makes sound, business sense for me to buy the Q4 from the vendor that's going to save me the $64. It doesn't take long before the money saved makes a huge difference in my bottom-line.

As a businessman, my main goal is not to make money. My main goal is to make a PROFIT. By saving $64 on that gallon jug of Q4, I'll increase the profit I realize as much as if I raised the prices I charge my customers who will have that product used on their lawns by $64. By saving $64 on the product I use, I'm able to realize the profit without having to get it on the back end (my customer's pockets).

I also disagree with your point that suppliers like the ones I use are somehow trying to get volume business short-term by offering the prices they offer. If these companies hadn't been around very long, I think your point might have some validity to it. These companies though, have been around for a long time. There's no short-sightedness to their pricing structure, because a lot of the companies I see when I go in their warehouses have been doing business with them for years. The companies I see going in to buy product from them are not just newer companies. Some of these outfits are huge.

I didn't think you were trying to bash the dealers I've been talking about. I figured you were just calling things as you saw them. Just don't agree with the way you see things, but there's no harm in that.

Trader Rick
02-03-2008, 02:17 AM
I keep hearing about LESCO. Guys the company is not ran by LESCO anymore, it is a component of the Deere Company. I have been buying from JDL and LESCO for a long time and JDL's price structure is the same as the former LESCO. As for them going under give me a break. One $20,000.00 dollar per year customer makes up for a lot of onsey twosey customers. I think the pricing structure is out of line even if I do get a pretty decent price on most items. When I started out I would shop prices and run back and forth between suppliers of which most either did not have what I needed when I needed it or did not have enough of it. LESCO always had what I needed and as much as I needed. The time I would waste shopping price some times cost more than the dif. in price. As for the trucks "All good things come to and end" well at least in this case. My local JDL center manager doesn't drive the company truck for personal business and never has. This is just part of CHANGE. ooooo nooooo WHO MOVED MY CHEESE? My LESCO / JDL (chem / fert guys) are absolutely great. They are a part of our community as much as any one. I am sorry for you guys that have butt heads running your local centers. :weightlifter::usflag::weightlifter:

bug-guy
02-03-2008, 07:46 AM
fact that the salesmen at my local Lesco store tell me that the prices they quote me are crazy and that they'd also shop elsewhere if they were me.

sorry guy's couldn't resist.

like i said i don't won't to sell to everyone
just like most guy's don't want everylawn to spray
sometimes you just have to tell people you think they are better off to go elsewhere.

Victor
02-03-2008, 12:11 PM
sorry guy's couldn't resist.

like i said i don't won't to sell to everyone
just like most guy's don't want everylawn to spray
sometimes you just have to tell people you think they are better off to go elsewhere.

Unfortunately Bug-Guy, you don't have the whole picture. With your most recent statement, you're alluding to the fact that you're under the mistaken impression that the salesmen at my local Lesco were just trying to get rid of me. That they didn't want to do business with me. The truth of the matter is that those same guys have on many occasions cold-called me and asked me what it would take to get my business back. Had it been a situation where my business wasn't desired, we both know I wouldn't have gotten those calls. While it would help your point if what you thought was their motivation for telling me that, really was. That's just not the case.

Like Keystone said about his local Lesco sales reps, the sales reps at my local Lesco are great guys. They're absolutely wonderful to deal with. I have nothing but the best things to say about them. In fact, I'm practically friends with one of those guys. When he needs "Buddy Passes" to fly to Vegas, or something, he calls me to ask for them. It's just an unfortunate fact that the prices I'd have to pay for products, should I elect to do business with the store they represent, are unacceptable to me.

Just to clarify, not to say that I was accused of price-shopping, but just to clarify that point non the less. I don't price-shop between the suppliers I do use. I have one, main supplier that I use for the bulk of my purchases. I buy product from the other suppliers if I find myself in their neck of the woods in need of something.

Victor
02-03-2008, 12:14 PM
sorry guy's couldn't resist.

like i said i don't won't to sell to everyone
just like most guy's don't want everylawn to spray
sometimes you just have to tell people you think they are better off to go elsewhere.

By the way Bug-Guy. It's "want." Not "won't." :)

Mscotrid
02-04-2008, 12:55 PM
GUY'S IS IT SPRING YET???? I THINKL WERE ALL SUFFERING FROM SERIOUS CASE OF CABIN FEVER:hammerhead::hammerhead:

Marcos
02-04-2008, 01:21 PM
GUY'S IS IT SPRING YET???? I THINKL WERE ALL SUFFERING FROM SERIOUS CASE OF CABIN FEVER:hammerhead::hammerhead:

Good point, Mscotrid !

Remember : The shade of green Lesco's always used in their logo has always been just a couple shades darker than "John Deere green".

Come later this spring, don't be surprised at all when you see the Lesco green on the service center 'fade' a bit, and actually swap out & add say, four more letters!!! :laugh:

Y'know...it's going to happen, eventually.

green horizons
02-04-2008, 04:29 PM
My local Lesco was usually slightly cheaper or, at least, competitive with price. The fert. products always performed great, never soiled (frozen, wet, etc.). But Lesco always plays the "What's my price today?" game. I understand quantity discounts, but why no minimum?? I could literally buy two pallets of fert. Monday and on Wednesday I might need three extra bags for new customers. Well, what will three bags costs me?? Good question! Always more, that isn't in question. But the exact cost would vary from the North store to the South store... Do I take delivery today or Friday? Are there any mystery "coupons" to be found? It never ends with them. Frankly the product was good and the service was reasonable, but the prices are always subject to, "What's my price today?", er, umm, "Today at this store.." Their chem. prices, in all the years I've dealt with them, have been silly crazy compared to comparable brands. Fert. prices are up at other vendors, but I have an understanding/expectation going in, and I have NEVER had to ask, "What's my price today? Uhh, I mean, at this Lesco Store?"
Good product, fair service, unfortunate business model.

Victor
02-04-2008, 04:37 PM
GUY'S IS IT SPRING YET???? I THINKL WERE ALL SUFFERING FROM SERIOUS CASE OF CABIN FEVER:hammerhead::hammerhead:

There's no angst involved here Mscotrid. At least not on my part. We're just using this forum, which was created for the purpose of exchanging opines and ideas for that very purpose, so you tell me. What's the problem? We're all just sharing the motivating factors behind our decision to use Lesco, or not to use Lesco in a forum that was created for that very purpose. That's all.

If there's something about this thread that makes you, or anyone else uncomfortable, then don't subscribe to it. No one is forcing anyone to read this thread. Problem solved. :)

Mscotrid
02-04-2008, 05:12 PM
There's no angst involved here Mscotrid. At least not on my part. We're just using this forum, which was created for the purpose of exchanging opines and ideas for that very purpose, so you tell me. What's the problem? We're all just sharing the motivating factors behind our decision to use Lesco, or not to use Lesco in a forum that was created for that very purpose. That's all.

If there's something about this thread that makes you, or anyone else uncomfortable, then don't subscribe to it. No one is forcing anyone to read this thread. Problem solved. :)


Wow Vic, did I call you out on any of this?. Did I mention you by name? Did I criticize or make light of your website? I was making a casual attempt of brevity here. I have no issues with anyone here, why? because I don't no anyone of you personally. I didn't mention any "angst" I have no "problem". About the only thing you're correct on is " no one is forcing anyone to read this thread". I just find this thread like all other threads amusing.

Put your soap box away and look for the humor in a situation not the "angst".:cool2:

Victor
02-04-2008, 05:27 PM
If you think I have angst towards you, that couldn't be further from the truth Mscotrid. By your post, you made it seem to me like you were bothered by the thread. The point I was making, is that if you were bothered by this thread (the hammerhead imoticon gave me the impression that you were upset for some reason), don't bother subscribing to it. If it was making you upset for some reason, I don't know why you would do something that would frustrate you. There's no soapbox involved here, thank you for sharing your opinion though.

Mscotrid
02-04-2008, 09:34 PM
I accept your apology:waving::waving:

TurfProSTL
02-05-2008, 02:12 AM
Having spent years on both sides of the sales counter and reading all 8 pages of this thread, I thought I’d throw in my 2 cents…..

If you want fair pricing from any supplier(s), treat them fairly. Take some of your valuable forum-posting time and jot down a simple plan: products, timing, and a fair estimate of the quantities you will need this season. Call or visit your supplier and ask for your sales rep. Make sure he has your info and ask when you can expect your pricing. Explain that you are open to replacement products where applicable. Ask about delivery, early order, payment options. If you have several suppliers in your area, tell them you are comparing your options.

No matter how small your operation is, this shows the sales rep you are serious about your business, and not just some homeowner looking to make their and their neighbors grass a little greener.

You’re also giving the guy some time to work up your best numbers and not just quote you off the full list price that pops up on the computer screen. If he wants your business, he’ll sharpen his pencil the best he can.

When you get your pricing, compare apples to apples, not just bag prices. Include delivery vs pickup options, payment arrangements, etc. Did this sales rep seem more helpful or knowledgeable than the others?

Make your decision and be as loyal as possible. Don’t price shop on every new item – they will tire of you. Keep your chosen supplier honest yearly or on major expenditures, but don’t nickel and dime them on a weekly basis. In other words, be a smart loyal customer, not a PITA.

I have never been to a JDL store, but have been to all 3 local Lesco’s and one out of state. I am friends with many of the employees and some are former co-workers. They are always helpful and take care of customers in proper turn, no matter the size of the customer order. They are not my primary supplier for fertilizer, chemicals, or seed (due to pricing and delivery), but we buy aerators, sprayers, spreaders, parts, and incidental items from them.

Whitey4
02-05-2008, 03:14 AM
Having spent years on both sides of the sales counter and reading all 8 pages of this thread, I thought I’d throw in my 2 cents…..

If you want fair pricing from any supplier(s), treat them fairly. Take some of your valuable forum-posting time and jot down a simple plan: products, timing, and a fair estimate of the quantities you will need this season. Call or visit your supplier and ask for your sales rep. Make sure he has your info and ask when you can expect your pricing. Explain that you are open to replacement products where applicable. Ask about delivery, early order, payment options. If you have several suppliers in your area, tell them you are comparing your options.

No matter how small your operation is, this shows the sales rep you are serious about your business, and not just some homeowner looking to make their and their neighbors grass a little greener.

You’re also giving the guy some time to work up your best numbers and not just quote you off the full list price that pops up on the computer screen. If he wants your business, he’ll sharpen his pencil the best he can.

When you get your pricing, compare apples to apples, not just bag prices. Include delivery vs pickup options, payment arrangements, etc. Did this sales rep seem more helpful or knowledgeable than the others?

Make your decision and be as loyal as possible. Don’t price shop on every new item – they will tire of you. Keep your chosen supplier honest yearly or on major expenditures, but don’t nickel and dime them on a weekly basis. In other words, be a smart loyal customer, not a PITA.

I have never been to a JDL store, but have been to all 3 local Lesco’s and one out of state. I am friends with many of the employees and some are former co-workers. They are always helpful and take care of customers in proper turn, no matter the size of the customer order. They are not my primary supplier for fertilizer, chemicals, or seed (due to pricing and delivery), but we buy aerators, sprayers, spreaders, parts, and incidental items from them.

Well put.

I went to Company A, and did all of that. Told him I was basically a start up, would make this work or die trying. Told him I would be buying at least 6k in equipment, and likely more, and expected to have 25 full apps accounts as an LCO. I had dumped my bad accounts, and was starting off with 8. So, figure full apps on at least 80k (more likely 100k)of turf apps, likely more, for lime, 5 ferts, pre m's, post m's, grub control, and extras like Sedgehammer and Quicksilver. Then some growth regulators, ornamental ferts, and any other control materials I might need. Told him I would be certified (which I am now) and didn't have any storage space, so I would be a buy as needed customer.

The dealer at company A then proceeded to grill me with questions to prove to me how much more he knew than I did. When I asked a question, he asked a question. When I asked for a price, he refused to give me one. After some haggling, he finally did me the favor of punching up a couple of one bag prices. When I asked if he had a suggested apps program, he told me about his microscope. Just to prove a point in my own mind, I asked how much a gas can was. He guessed "about $35?" When I asked how much the Bliechman BP sprayer was, he said "reasonable". I finally, after having to ask about ten times, got some, not all of the prices on what I was shopping for.

Company B, was altogether different. When I asked a question, I got an answer. When I asked for a price, I got one. Then, they even said that I could buy my fert for my 2nd, 3rd and 4th apps with a discount based on volume, and they even would warehouse it for me. I could pick it up when I was ready to apply. Even their single bag prices were 30% lower than company A. They treated me as an equal, even though I am not their equal.

Which company should I do business with? I know I am small potatos, but it's a no brainer.

Does sharing that experience mean I am bashing company A? Some people think so, and don't much like it. I would not be annoyed with anyone that shared their positive experiences with company A, but some of those same people call me someone who buys a couple of bags of fert at a time as a "yer small potatos ego romp" in some lame effort to defend company A.

Hey, if company A only wants large volume buyers, and those large volume buyers are happy with that...GREAT! If this is just a "one store" issue, then bad luck for me. I never said it might be more than that.

If sharing an experience like I had as a start up company is bashing, and causes people in this forum to allude to me as an idiot and whatever... that only serves to muzzle people who might be willing to talk about their own experiences, and maybe in the process, help someone else... like another small potatos guy? Not everyone in this forum treats 500 acres a year.

And... if you are tired of Lesco bashing, maybe you should not start a new thread that will only invite more ot it.

Victor
02-05-2008, 11:09 AM
You hit the nail on the head. You made excellent points. While my business is not a recent start-up, I share your sentiments exactly. :cool2:

lawnservice
02-05-2008, 12:02 PM
I read most of the responses in this thread and have only one thing to say.................................................








*********************yawn*************************

(i did like whitey4 answer...if i may paraphrase "dont like what you read, dont read it. Dont like whats being said, dont start another thread to encourage more of what you dont like")

Victor
02-05-2008, 02:01 PM
I read most of the responses in this thread and have only one thing to say.................................................








*********************yawn*************************

(i did like whitey4 answer...if i may paraphrase "dont like what you read, dont read it. Dont like whats being said, dont start another thread to encourage more of what you dont like")

That's what I'm saying Lawnservice. It just seems like common sense to me. If I don't like what's on television, I just change the channel and don't go back.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
02-05-2008, 02:58 PM
Victor & Whitey, you guys think just like me! That is what I have always said about Lesco. They always acted like I needed to pi$$ away 2k my first year with them, so I could be on the "A" list next year! I said I am supposed to feel SO privleged to do business with you, that I should take a large hit in the bottom line? I don't think so! I use 30 skids of reg. fert. thoughout season, don't need to "prove" I'm worthy to them! I get substantially less pricing through 2 other companies, and oh yea, they deliver & stack for FREE!
I just got my 1st. round of 13-3-5 w/ barricade 25%scu for under $14.40/bag. Try getting that at Lesco!

I don't blame the guys in the store, I blame Lesco, & now JDL.

I'm just glad I have options, & feel bad for those who don't & have to put up with that $h!t.:hammerhead::hammerhead:

LawnTamer
02-05-2008, 03:43 PM
I have always liked my Lesco reps, but I sure don't like the way they do business, and JD landscapes seems to be going down the same road, even further.

I think the Lesco critics have made incredibly valid points as to why they don't like to shop there. I hate the way nothing has a price. I don't buy huge volume, but the last 2 years I've averaged between $20k-$25k at Lesco and I still feel like my reps have to be buffers between me and the company to keep me from getting the shaft.

Keep in mind that there are other options, and even if you end up going with lesco/JD, having competitive bids from other suppliers will give your reps ammo to fight for the best price they can get as they deal with corporate HQ.

So far, it is looking like I will be going with a local agricultural co-op for most of my supplies, they have added a lot of good Turf and Ornamental products and seem very competitive.

rcreech
02-05-2008, 05:24 PM
Victor & Whitey, you guys think just like me! That is what I have always said about Lesco. They always acted like I needed to pi$$ away 2k my first year with them, so I could be on the "A" list next year! I said I am supposed to feel SO privleged to do business with you, that I should take a large hit in the bottom line? I don't think so! I use 30 skids of reg. fert. thoughout season, don't need to "prove" I'm worthy to them! I get substantially less pricing through 2 other companies, and oh yea, they deliver & stack for FREE!
I just got my 1st. round of 13-3-5 w/ barricade 25%scu for under $14.40/bag. Try getting that at Lesco!

I don't blame the guys in the store, I blame Lesco, & now JDL.

I'm just glad I have options, & feel bad for those who don't & have to put up with that $h!t.:hammerhead::hammerhead:

Liberty,

How much do you buy to get that price?

What is the sq ft of the bag you use or what rate do you use?

I got my 19-0-6 Dim 30%SCU a lot cheaper then that from Lesco.

I know it isn't the same analysis or "drug", but with the higher N it is still a better deal.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
02-05-2008, 05:31 PM
Liberty,

How much do you buy to get that price?

What is the sq ft of the bag you use or what rate do you use?

I got my 19-0-6 Dim 30%SCU a lot cheaper then that from Lesco.

I know it isn't the same analysis or "drug", but with the higher N it is still a better deal.

Any quantity to get that price.
12,550 Sq. Ft. coverage.
I could have got 19-0-6 w/ dimension for a little more
That is a WAY better deal than I have seen from Lesco
I can't belive you would get a better price than that right now from Lesco-We all know you bought your fert last year in a huge quantity, thats all you talk about!

TurfProSTL
02-05-2008, 05:35 PM
Liberty,

I know it isn't the same analysis or "drug", but with the higher N it is still a better deal.
When you're talking about pre-em combos, higher N is NOT necessarily a better deal. It's all about AI.....

n-green
02-05-2008, 05:37 PM
RCreech, when did you buy the 19-0-6 and how much did you buy? That sounds pretty cheap, even for a guy.
Thanks, DB.

n-green
02-05-2008, 05:39 PM
Sorry! I just read last post.

rcreech
02-05-2008, 05:46 PM
Any quantity to get that price.
12,550 Sq. Ft. coverage.
I could have got 19-0-6 w/ dimension for a little more
That is a WAY better deal than I have seen from Lesco
I can't belive you would get a better price than that right now from Lesco-We all know you bought your fert last year in a huge quantity, thats all you talk about!

"Thats all I talk about!" :laugh:

I don't think so...

I finally made a good move, can't I be happy and gloat a little!:weightlifter:

Last I checked it was over 15.00 something a bag!

I bet it is higher then that now!

rcreech
02-05-2008, 05:49 PM
When you're talking about pre-em combos, higher N is NOT necessarily a better deal. It's all about AI.....


This is true!

However with the Dimension, I start applying much later then most, and I like to have some N up front!

AI is important, but you are still buying N! That is the big cost!

rcreech
02-05-2008, 05:54 PM
RCreech, when did you buy the 19-0-6 and how much did you buy? That sounds pretty cheap, even for a guy.
Thanks, DB.

I am not trying to continue to talk about this as Liberty says...but I wanted to answer your question.

I ended up getting 22 ton in Nov. (which really isn't that much compared to a bunch on here). I am just a little guy trying to make it in a big world!