PDA

View Full Version : Subbing an organic fert application in CT


gobbles2700
02-01-2008, 08:08 PM
Hey guys, I have a large bid that I'm in the process of completing. Its for a municipal complex and requires a single Spring app of a certified organic fertilizer. The site is 560,000 sq ft of turf and is fairly open. I figured roughly 24 bags or $1100 worth of Sustain (the most readily available product i have found in my area) would be needed, I want to know what I should anticipate for price subbing it out. If I get the contract it will be for four years so I can extend the same to whomever i sub this too, professionalism is of the utmost importance as this site is extremely visible and in a posted enviromentally sensitive area. I can provide more details if needed but I just want to know within say a hundred dollars what i should be putting for that line item. Thanks in advance

Gmgbo
02-01-2008, 08:25 PM
where is this site? Are you licensed? Why do they only want one application?

humble1
02-01-2008, 08:28 PM
Hey guys, I have a large bid that I'm in the process of completing. Its for a municipal complex and requires a single Spring app of a certified organic fertilizer. The site is 560,000 sq ft of turf and is fairly open. I figured roughly 24 bags or $1100 worth of Sustain (the most readily available product i have found in my area) would be needed, I want to know what I should anticipate for price subbing it out. If I get the contract it will be for four years so I can extend the same to whomever i sub this too, professionalism is of the utmost importance as this site is extremely visible and in a posted enviromentally sensitive area. I can provide more details if needed but I just want to know within say a hundred dollars what i should be putting for that line item. Thanks in advance


24 bags seems really low to me for all organic

gobbles2700
02-01-2008, 08:29 PM
SE CT
I am not a licensed applicator, thats why I am going to subbing it out. The bid specs call out for only one spring time application.

gobbles2700
02-01-2008, 08:45 PM
I screwed up I posted the wrong fertilizer #s its 63 bags @ 9000 sqft and 5.5 lbs per 1000 sqft. The fertilizer alone is $3200. Sorry about that.

Gmgbo
02-01-2008, 08:53 PM
I would be interested in that. Would you be able to email me the specs?

Whitey4
02-01-2008, 09:00 PM
I've never heard of Sustain, but 24 bags sure deosn't sound like it's near enough for any organic I've ever heard of. Typically, a 50 lb bag will cover 5k. So, you are looking at 112 bags or so. Even some of the 50% organics only cover 5k per 50lbs.

Secondly, isn't NY like Connecticut? If the material is not a pre emergent material, it's just fertilizer and should not require a company to be licensed for pesticides or have to be applied by a certified applicator. You could do it yourself, without a sub.

Considering how much you will need, like 5,700 lbs, I don't think you are limited to what is available locally. Shop around and have it shipped in directly. I've been looking at this stuff, but don't know how it's priced yet, but I like the composition of it, and it's certified.

http://www.agriorganics.com/products/seasons.html

They are based in Canada, and may not be set up to distribute in the US, but for a shipment that large, I'm sure it's easilly doable. Just get a quote including delivery.

I would also do my best to find a very good organic, and sell that material's benefits... no human waste, etc. The cheap stuff is usually processed sewage. They tried to sell that to us in NY. Then they said just cart it away. Still no takers. Then they said they would deliver it for free. Still no one wanted the stuff.

PS: Was typing when you logged your last post

gobbles2700
02-01-2008, 09:06 PM
You'll notice the first or second poster caught my mistake, I posted the numbers for a different product and a different job. I think you can apply an organic product with out a license but it is an enviromentally sensitive area and I don't want to do it with a push spreader. I would rather someone come in with the right equipment and know the spreader is calibrated right. Plus I'll busy enough if I get this and the couple of other bids I'm going after.

gobbles2700
02-01-2008, 09:35 PM
Considering how much you will need, like 5,700 lbs, I don't think you are limited to what is available locally. Shop around and have it shipped in directly. I've been looking at this stuff, but don't know how it's priced yet, but I like the composition of it, and it's certified.

http://www.agriorganics.com/products/seasons.html

They are based in Canada, and may not be set up to distribute in the US, but for a shipment that large, I'm sure it's easilly doable. Just get a quote including delivery.


I just emailed them, this stuff is really interesting it fully meets the bid requirements, all the other stuff I can find has at least something in it thats synthetic and therefore questionable as far as the bid.
I just really need to get an idea for what the market rate is for applying this stuff, since I've stayed away from apps, due to licensing, I have no idea how the pricing is structured.

Material% + Labor% = Sub's price + markup = My Bid price

Whitey4
02-01-2008, 10:04 PM
I just emailed them, this stuff is really interesting it fully meets the bid requirements, all the other stuff I can find has at least something in it thats synthetic and therefore questionable as far as the bid.
I just really need to get an idea for what the market rate is for applying this stuff, since I've stayed away from apps, due to licensing, I have no idea how the pricing is structured.

Material% + Labor% = Sub's price + markup = My Bid price

Gobbles... good luck. That's about all I have to offer, I don't do properties of that size, don't have the equipment or experience to offer any advice on that job.... but I'm sure others will. I do like the makeup of this Agra-International material. No manure, good organic content, certified.... and a better balance of NPK than most organics.

I think even if it's more expensive, offering a material that is better while catering to the tree huggers as a superior fertilizer could help your bid. I would bid this stuff, whatever it costs, and a cheaper lower quality material at two obviously different prices. If they are as "sensitive" as you say, they might go with a "safer" material than anything with composted manure in it.

tremor
02-01-2008, 11:25 PM
gobbles,

Somebody is quoting you an ugly fertilizer price. $50??? Some one is already feeding you a line but let's forget that for now.

I will imagine that the Towns purchasing agent didn't bother (or know enough) to specify a desired rate of Nitrogen? Probably not.

The standard rate should be 1# Nitrogen per 1000 square feet so...

Let's say you buy some PHC 8-1-9 for $38/50 lb bag.

At 1 lb Nitrogen you get 4,000 sf per bag.

560,000 sf/4,000 sf per bag = 140 bags @ $38 = $5320 your cost to do this right (which is ethical).

One man can easily spread this walking in less than a day. You can mark the material up & apply your daily own labor rate.

But........

Mark my words that some fertilizer dealer will recommend a lower Nitrogen rate to make sure they "get the sale". Likewise some yahoo applicator will also cut things back for exactly the same reason. If you're not comfortable working with the purchaser to specify the job correctly, then this project will spin into the ground quickly. The price for the job will land somewhere lower than you'd now imagine & the client will NOT get the results they desire.

I've been at this (as a dealer) here in CT for over 20 years. If you need help finding a reliable sub or need help with the town let me know.

Steve

tremor
02-01-2008, 11:31 PM
Oh yeah...You don't need a license to appy straight fertilizer (synthetic or organic) here in CT. The PHC 8-1-9 is 100% Natural Organic so it will also meet their specs. We sell it to municipalities &/or their contractors all over New England & NY. We stock it in 7 area warehouses too.

tremor
02-01-2008, 11:36 PM
http://www.planthealthcare.com/HT/Soil/HealthyTurf819

gobbles2700
02-02-2008, 12:02 AM
Tremor: the purchasing agent only specifies that it be certified organic, be passed by the town engineer, and be applied per the supplier's recommended rate. The stuff I was quoted calls for a Spring application rate just like you said of 1 lb N per 1000 sq ft. The problem is the stuff I have a quote for does not actually meet the bid specs because it is not a 100% organic just like just about everything else I can readily get local. Fert apps are not my thing beyond my own lawn and those of my family so I never really thought about the fact this was such a big order that i could get it from anywhere:hammerhead:.

Two others have pm'ed me with info also but at least now i have a solid price on a material that will meet the bid. Hopefully the other two guys will get back to me so I can see what the market $$$ is since I'm bidding agaist four or five other companies and need to be competitive. Anyway thanks for the quick replies from everyone, I'll be keeping the thread active through the middle of next week. Tim

Kiril
02-02-2008, 11:47 AM
Don't guess at application rates or follow manufacturer "recommended" rates, test the soils/plants on the site and THEN determine your application rates based on the requirements of the site.

phasthound
02-02-2008, 04:32 PM
Tremor: the purchasing agent only specifies that it be certified organic, be passed by the town engineer, and be applied per the supplier's recommended rate. The stuff I was quoted calls for a Spring application rate just like you said of 1 lb N per 1000 sq ft. The problem is the stuff I have a quote for does not actually meet the bid specs because it is not a 100% organic just like just about everything else I can readily get local. Fert apps are not my thing beyond my own lawn and those of my family so I never really thought about the fact this was such a big order that i could get it from anywhere:hammerhead:.

Two others have pm'ed me with info also but at least now i have a solid price on a material that will meet the bid. Hopefully the other two guys will get back to me so I can see what the market $$$ is since I'm bidding agaist four or five other companies and need to be competitive. Anyway thanks for the quick replies from everyone, I'll be keeping the thread active through the middle of next week. Tim

Feel free to contact me for prices on OMRI approved granular ferts. Click our banner on the sponsor page or my website below.

gobbles2700
02-04-2008, 03:31 PM
Hey, had an interesting pre bid meeting this morning. They had 12 companies come out and were very vague about the scope of work to be completed. The previous contractor ended up highligghting I don't know how many problem areas. The contract is much bigger than it looks on paper. I had done up an estimate of hours off the spec sheet this weekend and my numbers for todays walk through are nearly 30% higher. I'm hopeful but doubt I will win the bid as there was one contractor who has been low balling everything they go after this fall. Thanks to those who have responded, I will probable come back on next week and post about the results of the bid.

humble1
02-04-2008, 08:18 PM
you dont want to get every job, you just want the ones you will make money on. Dont get caught up bidding with your ego. Some guys bid just so they can brag, but why work for less? I dont get it sometimes.

gobbles2700
02-13-2008, 11:32 AM
Just got home from the bid opening, didn't get it. Lowest bid was 84,000, highest 196,000.

84,000, 96,000, 119,000, 120,000, 135,000, 143,000, 156,000, 158,000, 179,000, 184,000, and 196,000.

I was 179K. I am pretty sure the lowest two will be disqualified for being to low and the 119 bidder was late to the pre bid and didn't show up for today's opening so I think he is out also. The first guy capable of doing the job is the guy they're trying to replace at 135,000, So I think it will either be him or the one's at 143,000. Oh well I want work to live, not live to work!

Thanks for those of you that answered my questions. Tim