why not verbal contracts??

[bobbygedd]

i know this subject has been addressed before, but after speaking with my lawyer the other day, he said a verbal contract IS a legal binding contract. ill give u some examples: i go to a resturant, the waiter comes over, and actually OFFERS me food(hi, my name is bob, can i get u something?) well, yes bob, ill take the surf and turf. he does not make me sign a contract, i eat, he brings the bill, do i have to pay? damn right i do! when i went for gas, i asked for $20 regular, he pumps it, no contract, do i have to pay? damn right i do. why should it be different with us? i think sometimes its just a pain in the butt for little things , to write up a contract. later

[SprinklerGuy]

The time is worth it......see my post by searching "lawsuit". Save yourself some trouble, I wish I had.

[bubble boy]

i figure a contract is good to settle a dispute before it goes to court. you can prove in writing what was agreed upon, often i find that showing a customer what they agreed to is enough. no problems with those with short term memories.

you need to get their name, address, phone #when you sign them anyway, so why not write it down on a contract, for them to sign, with a copy for you and them?

[bruces]

Without things in writing it is strictly a I said, he said scenario.

How do you prove anything?

[bobbygedd]

using the examples i gave u. in the resturant, did i really order the meal? i ate it though! did u really ask for lawn cutting? u didnt stop me though!

[Guido]

my 4 cents!

Those are great examples of verbal contracts, and yes when I say, please cut my grass today and you do it, you should be paid....BUT there are usually not many conditions for either party to follow in a verbal contract, right? Thats where you can get screwed.

Lets use the resteraunt for an example - if you eat, pay, and tell the owner how great the place is and that you'll come every Monday night, does that mean if you don't show up one mon night you have to pay for the meal, since you promised?

Its a different ballgame in our industry. I bet no where in that verbal contract did anyone say that the customer could not terminate your service for no apparent reason with no notice to you before hand.

It's just a lot easier for everyone to get it all in writing. It'll save you time, money and stress in the future, I promise.

[yergus]

a verbal contract is valid only when there is a meeting of the minds. you both must understand the services to be performed, the amounts, how payment will be made, and when.
if either of you does not understand it fully, then a meeting of the mind has not been established and there is no contract. so when you offer your services, it is best to have him tell you what he understands about the services and payment expected

[Stonehenge]

A contract is a contract is a contract. A verbal, a scrawl on a napkin, and a formal written document can all be contracts.

However, if your attorney has advised you to pursue verbal contracts instead of written ones, he is a moron. And please tell him I said this. Your meal at a restaurant example is valid, but so what. It's $10! Presumably these contracts you're talking about are for thousands of dollars. Not something you want to leave to a legal battle over who said what. You have to prove your case if it comes down to litigation, and verbals are worthless as evidence.

If you still think a verbal is worthwhile, give me a call. I've got a great deal for you.....

[KDJ]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
i know this subject has been addressed before, but after speaking with my lawyer the other day, he said a verbal contract IS a legal binding contract. ill give u some examples: i go to a resturant, the waiter comes over, and actually OFFERS me food(hi, my name is bob, can i get u something?) well, yes bob, ill take the surf and turf. he does not make me sign a contract, i eat, he brings the bill, do i have to pay? damn right i do! when i went for gas, i asked for $20 regular, he pumps it, no contract, do i have to pay? damn right i do. why should it be different with us? i think sometimes its just a pain in the butt for little things , to write up a contract. later



You must have shopped around for the cheapest Attorney that you could find.

[John from OH]

Ask this attorney to explain the Uniform Commercial Code and how it applies to our industry. If he can't explain it, find one that can. In short, if my memory serves me, any contract worth more than $500 has to be in writing. There are other items concerning the code also. There is a big difference between a meal or a tank of gas and providing our services. If it's in writing and both parties agreed to the terms, neither parties recollection of what was said can be mis-interpreted.

[bobbygedd]

wait a minute, my attorney happens to be a personal friend, and a very good lawyer. HE DID NOT ADVISE ME TO USE VERBAL CONTRACTS! I called to ask what i could do about this guy who was ducking me for 2 grass cuts, and i told him this one was not a written contract , he said that a verbal contract is a binding contract, and the guy still has to pay. so, anyway, if your thoery is correct, im takin my whole family out to red lobster friday night, and if they dont make me sign first, im not paying. shouldnt have a problem, right? thats what your telling me, right? it just seems such a pain in the ass, i have some customers that are such a quick mow wack and blow, and i have to write up a 2 page contract and cover every little scheme someone may try to bone me? theft is theft, and i think my examples are valid. i do use written contracts for full service customers, and landscape work, ill have to start using them for every little job i do.

[Stonehenge]

Your attorney is right - IT IS a valid contract. It's just impossible to prove in court (unless the other guy is a nob and admits to having a verbal contract with you, under the terms you stated).

As for the dine-and-dash thing, go ahead. I'm sure they won't sue (they probably know when to cut their losses), but you can be sure you'll never be served there again. And how proud you're family will be of you. :eek:

Sure, it's no fun having to have everyone sign a contract, but it's even less fun not getting paid.

[KerryB]

In the state of North Carolina a verbal contract is just as binding as a written one. However, here is the rub, when you go to court its your word against his. Lets say he is a personal friend of the magistrate who is presiding over small claims court. Guess who wins.

[landscaper3]

No contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are only opening yourself up to TROUBLE with no contract!

[Dochere]

Originally posted by landscaper3
No contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are only opening yourself up to TROUBLE with no contract!


The above is our policy, and we will stick to it. 30 years ago a handshake got allot done, now a handshake is more of a customers promise to screw you over more than anything.

[groundsguy1970]

Why are you guys so uptight over CONTRACTS?:confused:
In most states you really need a PURCHASE ORDER to get payment in court, if you aren't familiar with your local regulations you better do some homework. It's better not to get the short end of the stick!;)

[Stonehenge]

groundsguy - which states are the ones whose laws you're familiar with?

[bobbygedd]

my goodness, i know that it is better to have a written contract. just in this case i didnt, i should still be paid. legally he must pay, morrally, and any way u look at it. i think in court i win. he still has to explain to the judge y, if he didnt want the work done, did he allow me on his property to do it?

[Stonehenge]

I don't know any other way to say this: without a contract, there is no proof. He could say that he agreed that you would do the work for free, as a practice job, and that your wife would also provide free 'service,' and his case is as strong as yours.

He can make up ANYTHING.

If your attorney friend is so certain that this can be won, do this: Tell him you'll hire him on a contingency basis. You win, he gets x% of the take. You lose, no $. See if he takes the bait. Then you'll know where you stand.

[bobbygedd]

stone, u r right, there is no proof. and that is where a judge would have to hear both sides and make a logical decision. i agreed to give him free work? illogical! my wife? i dont get that part??????? i can see i speak on deaf ears at this point. i was watching some t.v court today, and these cases are almost always without any proof at all. lets see, i agreed to give him free work, yea sure. that sounds as good as, he said i could throw rocks at his windows and break as many as i wanted, yur honor. no proof right? now u r acting silly, mr. stone. and, my wife? please explain

[Stonehenge]

The wife thing was to give an example of how the other party can manufacture any lie, and it has the same weight as your 'truth.' I'm in a battle right now with people that are grasping at straws, doing that same kind of thing (making stuff up). Thankfully, I had a feeling about these people and dcoumented EVERYTHING.

What you see on TV is just that. TV.

Take my advice on the attorney thing - see if he's willing to take the case on a contingency basis.

[bobbygedd]

u r absolutely, positively right! best way is everything in writing! however, if i do a job without a contract, and the guy stiffs me, i will not roll over and surrender my money. yup, he can make up lies, and then so can i . i am an honorable, respectfull person, but, when dealing with scum i tend to act like scum. yur honor, mr. x then requested that i give him *ral sex, that was not part of our agreement, and i feel at this point i needed to abort the job . ......

[groundsguy1970]

I am not a lawyer, so therefore our stated position is to refrain from any other legal advice threads! ;)