Need Help Fast...Bidding on Monday

[Wilson Edge]

Hey everyone...Please help me...this is my first large "gated comunity bid" Before i have just done single residences I hope that i get this job...ok I need help bidding it...I know how to bid a normal yard but not something like this....Ok so I bieleve that there are 39 residences in the community. then there is the recreation area near the pool. They want me to do a weekly mow...weeding and trimming and some sprinkler repair if need be.....So what should i bid it at and how should i go about presenting my bid...Im saposed to go talk to the pres. of the home owners association on monday....thanks for all of your help!!!!!
heres the link:
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii55/wilson7561681/condosoutline.jpg

[lawnmagicinc]

would thay like the grass fetilisd 6 times a year .

[Wilson Edge]

oh ya sorry i forgot to put that in there......yes they would like it to be fertilized once every month so 5-6times a year

bump

[lawnmagicinc]

find out how much fert cost add 10% for handeling it .add in you reg charge mowing stuff like that.then tack the year long price and devied it into 12 months an the should be it

[lawnmagicinc]

make shure you got your libilty ins current and your stuff together so if you get it and thay ask for it you got it

[Wilson Edge]

yah the insurance was there main concern and i got all of it squared away with my agent.....so im good on that

[MowHouston]

Link doesnt work. Page not found.

[Wilson Edge]

sorry this one should work...thanks for everyones help

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii55/wilson7561681/condosoutline.jpg

[d&rlawncare]

What equipment do you have? Have you estimated how long it will take you? Will it be just you?

[Wilson Edge]

I have,
1 52" great dane super surfer
1 toro personal pace 21"
1 echo week wacker
1 mclane walk behind edger
1 exmark 36" walk behind hydro with sulky
1 echo back pack blower
I think i could do it in 5 hrs with me and one other guy...that would be all weeding triming mowing edging blowing fertilizer pretty much all maintenence...let me know what you think

[topsites]

Maybe I'm wrong but from the look of things I think just the line trimming would take at least 3-4 hours.
Maybe not, but I do think you'd run through at least one tank of fuel, 1-2 hours at the absolute least.

Are these condos, duplexes, a small apartment complex or what?

Because just outside of your border there exist some cul-de-sacs with 4-5-6 houses in it, and they look awful tiny in comparison.
I probably could fit 4 or 5 of those cul-de-sacs in your area, now how long would THAT take?
Probably a good 2-3 hours per cul-de-sac, I'd say that area of yours is at least 12 man hours just to cut and trim.
But maybe I am wrong, and I'm not being stupid or clever, I just don't know.

How big is this place, total acreage?

[Wilson Edge]

Hey not to be forward or anything but i need some kind of numbers...im freaking out because im doing the presentation in 15 hrs and dont have a set number yet....i want to get the job but dont want too bid too low....
Im not sure the over all acres sry

[topsites]

Don't freak out, worst case scenario you call them in the morning and ask them to postpone or just be cool, don't worry about it.

But do you have some kind of an address and zip code?
Maybe the name of the place might help.

[MikeLT1Z28]

lets assume that you can do each of the properties in 15 minutes each. that's 4 per hour times 10 hours would equal 40 properties. that doesn't count the common areas. i'd have to say at a minimum, $25 per residence if they are small, plus the common areas and that may be low.

that's assuming i am reading what you are asking correctly

ok, i looked at the link with the picture, didn't see the 2nd link when i read it. that looks like a lot of linear edging, not sure about the trimming and not really too much cutting, then you have to blow it all off.

[KS_Grasscutter]

Without looking terribly close at it, I'd say NO LESS than $700 per cut, plus more for weeding, trimming, sprinklers, etc.

[Wilson Edge]

its a condo area there are 2-4 residences per building in realitly though it is pretty small.....there are 39 residences if i counted it right......now the current people maintaining it are a huge company.....they are charging too much so they want a new bid.....I figured it as $15 a residence thats around $600 a week thats $2400 a month....but i just cant see every person in the complex paying $60 just for the landscaping.....but then again i am only mowing for 6-7 months out of the year......I would be happy with some were around $2400 a month but i just dont want that to be too high.......what do you think

[MikeLT1Z28]

that's about the starting number i had in my head after i looked over the picture. assume it took 8 full hours to do everyting, that's $87.50/hr before expenses.

[KS_Grasscutter]

its a condo area there are 2-4 residences per building in realitly though it is pretty small.....there are 39 residences if i counted it right......now the current people maintaining it are a huge company.....they are charging too much so they want a new bid.....I figured it as $15 a residence thats around $600 a week thats $2400 a month....but i just cant see every person in the complex paying $60 just for the landscaping.....but then again i am only mowing for 6-7 months out of the year......I would be happy with some were around $2400 a month but i just dont want that to be too high.......what do you think

I'd rather not get the job at $700, than get it at anything less.

[Albery's Lawn & Tractor]

What is your time worth? 5 hours? There's no way. 10 hours atleast maybe 12. A stick edger is a must for time also. If it were me I'd be around the $1000 mark, plus you also need to consider the chances of sprinkler repairs. This might be a little much for you if your use to just simple residental accounts. You really should have another mower for a backup. If yours breaks, the hoa doesn't care they still expect you to mow.

[Jaon t]

Make sure you put in your bid that sprinkler repair is extra at an hrly rate plus parts. You have no idea what shape that system is. You may make more on the irrigation than the mowing. But make sure you cover your butt

[Wilson Edge]

i think 8 hrs is possible....even if i did it at $60 an hour i would be happy...I would rather low ball it just to get myself on the radar...so I have a foundation to have people accept my bids on other large properties.....Do you think that the people are paying more than $60 a month for the landscaping???
Also If i were to get the account i would buy a crap load of extra equipment...possibly a walker...and definitly a stihl stick edger or two....let me know

[Jaon t]

Most full service hoa's pay at least $100 a month, but that does include other ammenities besides landscaping (i.e. pool, exterior maintenance)

[StBalor]

you maybe should have asked them some questions. Like how many cuttable acres are there.

[MikeLT1Z28]

do yourself a favor and don't lowball yourself or anyone else. if you sign a contract and it's too low, guess what, you are stuck in that contract not making enough money and you will be miserable.

[topsites]

That story of 'but we are paying too much now' is as old as the hills lol.
I am starting to think thou, it's over your head, no offense because granted I'm solo but it's a ways over mine.

I'd rather not get the job at $700, than get it at anything less.

Yup, I could care less how much they each have to pay, heck in terms of that $60 a month is cheap so 60 x 39 x 10 = 23,400...

Your rate assume 3 cuts x 700 x 10 months = 21,000...
+ extras, I don't know but I'd have to guess somewhere in that ballpark of 24g minimum, maybe 26, 27...
How much are they paying now, 30?

That's some figures but even at this rate one guy and a helper it looks like it's just too much work.
Honestly if it were me, even with a helper I would politely decline and thank them for their consideration.

[Wilson Edge]

Most full service hoa's pay at least $100 a month, but that does include other ammenities besides landscaping (i.e. pool, exterior maintenance)
yah and there is the fac that they pay maybe $100-$200 a month and then that is for a 12 month period....leaving enough for the 6-7 months that i am actualy mowing

[MikeLT1Z28]

exactly what topsites said plus taking away from that figure for operational costs, maint. costs and insurance. how much general liability are you covered for? since it's the homeowner's association, i assume they as a whole and as individual homeowner's could sue you should something happen.

[Jaon t]

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[Wilson Edge]

im insured for $300,000 per person and $600,000 per insidence and $20,000 in equipment

[B&M]

Maybe I'm wrong but from the look of things I think just the line trimming would take at least 3-4 hours.

for us no less than $1400.00 a cut.

[MikeLT1Z28]

i think i'd increase that if you do take on this HOA, of course that's even more off of your bottom line.

[Wilson Edge]

yah i was going to get a couple more bids...and see how much it would be to increase my insurance to 1million per insidence

[1wezil]

do you have to take care of all the landscape with all the homes or are you just doing the mowing ? we have a development that we maintain and we are payed at .197 per sq ft but we take care of all the grass and landscape but the home owners can mow there one lawn or have us do it. there is 10acres that we take care of plus 8 town home building of 3 homes each and those are rated at $120.00 per building per month and they take us 4 hrs a week .we had to supply the mulch and labor with all trimming from trees to grass and over-seed in the fall ,but it not the bad good money.

[justanotherlawnguy]

Jesus, neither one of you can spell to save your a$$. Good luck presenting the estimate. If your cup of tea is servicing residential customers and you need help bidding on the large gated community, then you probably should not be bidding on it.

You have to know what is in your realm of capabilities, and if you cannot price it, then it is probably out of the scope of your business.

Since this post will be promptly flamed, here is my two cents:
$4k/month......

[Daily Lawn/Landscape]

You need to sit down with the HOA and find out in detail what they are looking for. Mow, trim, edge, fert, sprinkler, etc. than get back to them with a quote.
A budy of mine bid a 40 unit HOA last year and he gets$1000.00 per cut. I did the irrigation at $45 service call and no extra for the first 15 min. after that $60 an hour plus parts. Also fert/ weed was around $650 per app. x 5.
Landscape maint. was $600 mo.
Don't sell yourself short. You will hate the job after a couple weeks.

Looking at the pic of your HOA I would not set foot on the property for less than $1200. You have a days worth of work there if you do it right with 2 people.
Good Luck,
James

[SILVERSTREAK INC]

ill agree with 4k, you could make that work, one full day for 3-4 guys you better be makin a g per day without chasing in circles

[I MOW ALONE]

i would say at least a g

[PROCUT1]

This thread is an example how HOA prices have gone down every year while expenses have gone through the roof.

If you don't know how to bid this you shouldn't be bidding. Leave it for the companies that know what they're doing.

How can someone across the country give you a price? We dont know your costs, your labor, or anything.

What would my price mean?

I can give you a price if:

You send me your tax returns
Your labor rates
Your production times
Current financial statments
Your profit margin
Also your current overhead

[Wilson Edge]

Looking at the pic of your HOA I would not set foot on the property for less than $1200. You have a days worth of work there if you do it right with 2 people.
Good Luck,
James

Now to clarify when you say for $1200 that is per week....meaning $4800 a month????

[PROCUT1]

This market is hilarious with these people.

I have one condo i have been doing for years thats around the 50k a year mark.

I called a bunch of contractors from my other business to get bids for the property when I thought about subbing it out.

For the hell of it I got 12 bids.

The range was 18,000 to 115,000

It was the most hilarious and disturbing thing I ever saw.

There were the experienced companies that all bid within 5k of each other....then 8 others that were smaller guys that made up the difference.

I mean how can you literally have a HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLAR spread in bids?

They published the bids for another community where my mom has a townhouse.

The bids there ranged from $22,000 to $95,000

If I were a property manager or a condo board I wouldent know what the heck to do.

Hell on that property my costs would have been $40,000 to do the job before adding in overhead and profit.

How do you figure?

[Wilson Edge]

inless your here to help me then please leave me alone...ive got enough to worry about.....you had to start your community mowing somwere and this is were i am starting.....I was pretty sure that everyone was saying for me to mow at $1200 a week.....but i just wanted to clarify so i didnt screw up my first bid.....so please help me out by not posting inless you have something helpful to say.....

[Wilson Edge]

thanks a ton....

[MikeLT1Z28]

yes wilson, those are per week/per service figures everyone was telling you.

[topsites]

It's not that nobody wants you to have this work, for that I'd think most could as likely care less what I think is nobody wants you or the community to take a whooping, because either way one bad experience can hurt all of us.

That is the problem, and to expand a little most HOA's act all ignorant or naive but as a collective they're not as dumb as they might look. Now they'll as likely jump on a cheap price but here the problem is for this to happen you have to underbid and rather severely so, and then I can almost guarantee they will NOT jump on the highest bid either so again they're not as dumb as it looks.

As a rule commercial properties are not for the faint of heart, from my own experience with this I can honestly say to me commercial properties are the lion's cage and I'm telling you that sumb is hungry and doesn't care who his next meal is, one account like this can make you or break you... And if one account has that much power over me then it's too much to handle.

The lack of experience isn't helping, it's not going to do any good once the bitches start calling you. Granted there are not many members in this particular association but I dare say you'll as likely get one or two that have too much time on their hands and to deal with these folks you really need a secretary and the size of the business to match.

I recommend for a start up with little experience to put in at least 4 but maybe 5 years solo or maybe a part-time helper, this is to gain experience without a busted back, and even when I say residential customers are sweetie pies in comparison I assure you they still have plenty of buttwhoop in store to appease the most challenging of owners, oh yes they do and LOL.

Because that's what I did, after 4 years, in my 5th I took on a commercial prop maybe 1/2 the size of that, not sure but it was noticeably smaller, and it kicked my tail but I still managed to thank myself for being smart enough... Which is to say I didn't come out of that lion's mouth smelling too good, but it also didn't eat me up completely. For myself I don't think it's something I'll ever do again, but considering how sore it left me at the time now it's not quite 2 years later and most of the initial resentment apparently already transformed into wisdom so it really wasn't too bad (but hurt it did, omg).

So what I would do is call this HOA and inform them that you are a small 1 or 2 guy startup and that you feel this is likely too much to handle, that you will more than likely be sticking to strictly residentials until such day that you think you may tackle such an impressive property and thank them for their time and consideration, that's what I would do.

[justanotherlawnguy]

There is nothing wrong with sticking to all residential. I am headed into my 6th season and get many many many calls per year to bid on HOA's. When you see the spec sheets and what is required it is usually comical. At this point when hoa peeps call me, i just tell them that we do not service hoa's, and there is nothing wrong with that. Unless you are a medium to large LCO and know your costs inside and out, at which point submitting these bids is a little easier, dont even bother.

Even the big dogs dont get these bids right all the time.....:cry:

[Hoss315er]

How did the bid go? What did you decide on per trip?

[Wilson Edge]

well we more just talked...he was talking about what they needed done. and just got to know me...he had a bid sheet all made out and he told me to have it too him in the next couple days...so im taking a little more time to figure it out...i kinda build a system to figure out the bid that i think will work....ill let you know how it went

[Indysfinestlawnservice]

whats the sq footage on it and what are you charging for fert/weed control and mowing..?