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View Full Version : Potential for problems with par's in well fixtures?


Az Gardener
02-03-2008, 11:47 PM
I am starting a renovation. The property has many date palms we have found the 25 watt par bulbs to give the "best" effect for this client. They are all in lawn areas so we plan to put them in recessed wells. The wells have the potential to fill with water during a monsoon storm. What do you do to keep from tripping breakers at this point? I know the pars are suspended up off the ground inside the well but I also know these wells have been filled many times before during storms. It would be really embarrassing to do this big renovation and have the system shut down at the first big storm.

Does anyone have a copper product that can keep the roots from filling the wells from the bottom or crushing them from the outside? The fixtures we are replacing are bullets in recessed wells and many of them are encased by palm roots so tightly that we will probably ruin the fixtures trying to get them out and some of the wells are oval shaped because of the roots. I know roots will not touch copper so I imagine someone has a product to spray on to prohibit root growth?

Lite4
02-04-2008, 12:38 AM
For potential water infiltration areas I have always used a sonotube, the kind you use to pour concrete into for round footers. I use em about 3' long and fill the majority with pea gravel and then put my well in. It is a bigger pain to do this, but you don't ever get infiltration except maybe in the case of a Katrina event. But who would care at that point.

sprinkler guy
02-04-2008, 02:13 AM
For potential water infiltration areas I have always used a sonotube, the kind you use to pour concrete into for round footers. I use em about 3' long and fill the majority with pea gravel and then put my well in. It is a bigger pain to do this, but you don't ever get infiltration except maybe in the case of a Katrina event. But who would care at that point.

With established palms, this may be more challenging than you think. AZ, are you completely opposed to using an MR-16 based product to for you well-lights? There are several good ones to choose from if you wanted to go that route. Depending on height and crown spread, I light most of my date palms with 24 degree, 20 watts. Most of my applications are in areas with little or no competing light though.

NightScenes
02-04-2008, 07:40 AM
I use a completely sealed Vista 5270 MR fixture that works very well for lighting tall palms. Just a thought.

Lite4
02-04-2008, 10:11 AM
The 5200 series line of Vista is pretty solid like Paul said, I use them frequently as well.

pete scalia
02-04-2008, 08:15 PM
I am starting a renovation. The property has many date palms we have found the 25 watt par bulbs to give the "best" effect for this client. They are all in lawn areas so we plan to put them in recessed wells. The wells have the potential to fill with water during a monsoon storm. What do you do to keep from tripping breakers at this point? I know the pars are suspended up off the ground inside the well but I also know these wells have been filled many times before during storms. It would be really embarrassing to do this big renovation and have the system shut down at the first big storm.

Does anyone have a copper product that can keep the roots from filling the wells from the bottom or crushing them from the outside? The fixtures we are replacing are bullets in recessed wells and many of them are encased by palm roots so tightly that we will probably ruin the fixtures trying to get them out and some of the wells are oval shaped because of the roots. I know roots will not touch copper so I imagine someone has a product to spray on to prohibit root growth?

FYI , Low voltage lights will not cause tripped breakers either on the 12 volt or line voltage side when they get wet or are even submerged in water. Use a sealed PAR fixture.

irrig8r
02-04-2008, 08:34 PM
The 5200 series line of Vista is pretty solid like Paul said, I use them frequently as well.

Not all 5200s are created equal.

http://www.vistapro.com/productlist.aspx?Catid=1&ProdTypeID=2

The 5260, 5261, 5262 and 5263 have aluminum bodies. In my experience they fill up with water and the Phillips head bolts freeze up.

Yes, they cover them under warranty, but who wants the hassle?

The 5270, 5271, 5272 and 5273 on the other hand have fiber-reinforced composite bodies.

pete scalia
02-04-2008, 08:52 PM
Not all 5200s are created equal.

http://www.vistapro.com/productlist.aspx?Catid=1&ProdTypeID=2

The 5260, 5261, 5262 and 5263 have aluminum bodies. In my experience they fill up with water and the Phillips head bolts freeze up.

Yes, they cover them under warranty, but who wants the hassle?

The 5270, 5271, 5272 and 5273 on the other hand have fiber-reinforced composite bodies.

Grand papa scalia used to tell me- Pete, you go out with Brooklyn girls and guaranteed someday you'll end up in Flatbush. Pete Scalia says- You use aluminum lights and someday your gonna have corrosion issues.

Lite4
02-04-2008, 10:51 PM
Gregg, you are correct about the aluminum. I should have looked before I spoke. Thanks

irrig8r
02-05-2008, 12:37 AM
Gregg, you are correct about the aluminum. I should have looked before I spoke. Thanks

Tim, no prob. I just had some ongoing warranty issues with the 5260s series. Vista was quick about replacements, but it looks like they still haven't changed or eliminated the design.

They included weep holes for condensation to exit... and even with 12" of pea gravel under them, the cans would collect irrigation water over time. I only had about a dozen on the job, but some were replaced twice.

Lite4
02-05-2008, 12:42 AM
Thankfully Vista is good about warranty issues, but still what a loss of time and money to have to go out and replace. I installed some of the aluminum a few years ago, but I put them in PVC 2 1/2 sleeves so I could easily remove them for servicing if needed. It also helped secure them to the ground since the lower part of the can is smaller in size and relatively smooth. I checked on em about 2 months ago and they seem to be holding up pretty good, but they are also not in a high irrigation area with lots of water.

JoeyD
02-05-2008, 03:08 PM
Thise 25watt pars are going to fail within 3 months mark my words!! They are junk, you need to use a GE 35w or 20w if you want any sort of longevity.

We have an anti growth ring for the top of the light, it prevents growth from growing over but we also have an outershield whish is an anti growth resevoir that allows you to fill it gravel for a clean look. But it still does not allw for you to go down real deep to prevent any roots from potentially growing into the light.

As for the water thing I throw those Par36 lamps into ponds to show what an underwater light will look like. It will not trip the breaker becuase of moisture. These AC Low Volt connections are not effected by water except for the corrosion thing. But it will not trip your breaker. I spray a heavy coat of whitle lithium grease on my well connections when installing for added protection.