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lawnMaster5000
10-31-2001, 08:25 PM
I just had to purchase a new honda 20HP (GXV 620) b/c my old one quit.

- on the old engine (GXV 620 w/ 300 hours) they dealer claims that i was running low oil and didnt take care of the filter. Well i would argue with both of those, but whatever. They said i should be running the engine with over full oil (thought that was bad) and that my filter was too old, pretty new, but cant argue with the fact dirt was getting through)

What i am wondering though, is should i purchase an aftermarket air filter and the amsoil oil filter system for the new engine. Both of these things would be cheaper than another new engine. but would they really benifit me at all. and if so where is a good place to get aftermarket air filters.

PS honda just redesigned the filter b/c it was a poor design and air was getting past filter element. (could this qualify me for warantee claim?)

thanks for any help

65hoss
11-01-2001, 01:50 AM
I would be fighting this one with all I had. The honda as a low oil alert on it. Why didn't it go off if the motor was not getting enough oil?

lawnMaster5000
11-01-2001, 03:46 AM
well i thought the same thing, but then they started in with the whole air filter thing, even tho there shouldnt be any of the air getting into the crankcase to make the bering go bad, should there be?

anyone else think i should pursue this, i really dont think my dealer would screw me.

Richard Martin
11-01-2001, 04:46 AM
LawnMaster5000 wrote:
...........................
What i am wondering though, is should i purchase an aftermarket air filter and the amsoil oil filter system for the new engine. Both of these things would be cheaper than another new engine. but would they really benifit me at all. and if so where is a good place to get aftermarket air filters.
...........................

Adding a Amsoil bypass filter certainly wouldn't hurt anything. There has been some questions asked as to whether or not the Honda engine has enough oil pressure to push oil through the Amsoil bypass filter. If nothing else you can always remove the bypass filter and replace it with either a Amsoil, Mobil 1 or Purolator Pure 1 filter which filter smaller particles better than any other filters on the market. While you're plumbing the bypass filter in you can also add a engine oil cooler.

I have no idea where you can get an aftermarket air cleaner assembly. You could try getting the new improved assembly from Honda.

If you need help figuring any of this out just let me know.

Bill Kapaun
11-01-2001, 10:32 PM
I don't quite understand what they mean by stating that you should run it over full on oil. The whole reason behind the full mark on the dipstick is obvious.
Are you checking the oil level properly? On the Hondas that I'm aware of, you remove the dipstick, wipe and then push it back in without screwing it down. Withdraw and read the level. If you screw it all the way in, it will read higher than it really is by the amount of threads. That's about 3/16" or so.
If they have a known defective air clener, then they should eat the repair cost.
Have you called the regional Honda office? Their phone# should be in the back pages of the owners manual.

khouse
11-02-2001, 12:13 AM
I would persue it to the end. If you can't get it done at the dealer then find his distributor. Then call Honda USA directly. You buy from a dealer so he will stand by you. He should call Honda himself and see what they will do for you. That's part of his job. I don't think it is his call. Now if he said he talked to Honda and said there was nothing he could do then he has done you right. Get his Honda's rep's name and verify. All this can be done in a professional manor.

Squeeky wheel always gets the grease....

ArboristSite
11-03-2001, 12:14 PM
When I was a dealer, Honda was by far the easiest to work with on warranty. I think the dealer made the call himself and didnt call honda. I used to get things passed through 2 years out of warranty (not that it always happened). If I thought it should never have happened I would have called. Honda's are a very tolerant engine, this, without looking at it, is BS. I have seen some pretty poor maintenence and never saw a Honda die after 300hours. I used to see them run them with no air filter. Not just a dirty one. Kick the dealer in gear. This used to be the main way for me to get more business. I used to take a dealers turn down, into a repair for the new customer on manufactures expense. They not only bought more of that product, but bought more from me. This is also why its in Honda's best interest also. They keep you buying. Good Luck.

justractors
11-04-2001, 09:16 AM
Honda reliability and service has really taken a nose dive in this area also.
A friend and customer of mine has went through two Honda 20 hp horizontal engines in less than 4 months and the dealer has refused to stand behind either of them.
He uses the engine in a metal scrap yard to run a generator that powers the electromagnet on his crane. The engine only powers the magnet and another 4 cylinder automotive engine runs the hydraulics.
In both engines the number one cylinder lost compression and the dealer has not figured out why. Warren bought the second engine when the first went down because the machine is very vitak to his operation. The dealer did furnish Warren a used Kohler to use while he figures out the problem with the Hondas and that was over 2 months ago.
The engine sets about 6 feet off the ground out in the open except for a rain shiel.
The original Honda on it was an 18 hp and had over 2500 hours on it before Warren replaced it after it broke a rod.
The engines do run 8 to 10 hours a day six days a week and he does maintain them well.
Bill

Fine Lines Lawn
11-04-2001, 10:00 AM
Fight it to the end Scott. You're young, and I think the dealer is taking advantage of that. Go in there and be a "grumpy old man".
As was mentioned before, I think the dealer made that call without notifying Honda. I think Honda will take care of you.

ArboristSite
11-04-2001, 11:33 AM
Wow, this is really terrible to see. These dealers sitting on their tails. Even worse seeing these Honda 20hp engines having problems. I bet we will see a service bulletin sooner or later. Their engines arent known for this. Their service usually doesnt either. I would say Honda service first, is as good as the dealers service. Dealers always complain about no making enough money. Why should they get more when this stuff happens. I know it would hurt guys like me, when I was in it. But I never complained I knew how to make money. It isnt in selling lawnmowers or engines. You still have to help when help is needed. Stop working with the dealer and get a hold of Honda direct. I think the grass may be greener on the other side. Good Luck.

justractors
11-04-2001, 06:01 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ArboristSite
[It isnt in selling lawnmowers or engines.

I agree with you here.
It is real hard for a small dealer to sell a lawn mower, push or riding, when their cost is more than what one of the big chain stores sell it for.
The same holds true for the engines when folks can buy them from Northern Tool and other such places.
What the small dealer usually sells is service after the sale which is what Wally-world, K-smart, and Northern can't sell you. Still when you go into many of the small shops and talk to the guy behind the counter you are also talking to the guy who fixes stuff when it breaks, sweeps the floor, and takes out the trash; and they are just a middleman between the distributor and you and have little or no say on whether you get a junk-from-the-get-go engine replaced.
Bill

ArboristSite
11-04-2001, 06:26 PM
True, there is always some reject helping you. I always figured as a dealer I had the chance to meet Northern's price if necessary. I just had to decide if the engine died was it worth the time to warranty. If it was too low, c-ya. What people dont know is some of the engines are seconds they are buying. Then sometimes, especially true with a new Honda, they are hard starting out of the box, and they expect the dealer to get it started. Most of time this isnt a warranty situation. Oh well enough rambling.

Richard Martin
11-05-2001, 05:28 AM
ArboristSite wrote:
............................
What people dont know is some of the engines are seconds they are buying. Then sometimes, especially true with a new Honda, they are hard starting out of the box, and they expect the dealer to get it started. Most of time this isnt a warranty situation.
............................

And just who's problem should a situation like that be? Unless the engine is clearly marked as being a second from the factory how can Honda or the dealer deny a warranty claim? This isn't a buyer beware world you know.

justractors
11-05-2001, 08:04 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ArboristSite
[B]True, there is always some reject helping you. ]

WHOW!! I guess that something got lost in the translation here.

I in no way intended to imply that the small shop owner was a reject.
Most of the small shop owners work extremely hard to satisfy the customer because the small shop relies on word of mouth and repeat business more than any large shop or discount store ever will.
How can the small shop owner compete with the discount store on price? Unless the small shop is selling items at a loss. As a small dealer I have to pay more for an MTD 20" push mower than the customr can buy it for at Wally world. But then when is the last time Wally world replaced a flywheel key on that mower after the customer hit the edge of the sidewalk with the blade? I have and in the interest of getting the customer back I did it for "no charge" and I sharpened and balanced the blade also.
Maybe that's why I have trouble making the money last till the end of the month though, ya think?
Bill

ArboristSite
11-05-2001, 10:08 PM
No I know many dealers work very hard, but that doesnt mean they know what they are doing.
Dealer can deny claim, if he doesnt want to help you that's how. Dealers make crap doing warranty. If you bought it somewhere else. Take it somewhere else. I am (was in) business to make money, not to help you with an engine you bought somewhere else. If you bought it from me, different story.
The way a small business owner makes it (by the way I could beat any of the prices from a big box store) but you make 10% on them, not interested. You sell quality equipment, not MTD. You sell service, quality equipment, and validate your price. I used to show people what I paid for it and what their price was. I was the biggest store in Denver. I did well. I am saying, I have met a lot of store owners, and know why the are small. They work hard, but working smart thats a different story. Sorry, you thought I took your quote wrong. I just went on a little more than you.