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xtremelawn
02-06-2008, 10:54 PM
I had a couple of customers call me today and tell me that another company was able to beat my prices. Ask if I could match the new price. 5000 sq. ft. lawn my price $39 there price $25. There is no way I can match this price. I called this company and acted like I was interested in their service. Without even looking he quoted me $25. I ask him if he was insured and he said no. I ask him if he had an applicators lic. he told me that it was not required. I ask him what fertilizer he used and what he used for weed control. He said he get all his stuff from Lesco. "Lesco fertilizer and MOMENTUM for weed control"
How is he able to buy momentum without a lic.

Should I turn him into the TDA or pest control board? Should I tell the customers that called me today?

He has no lic. but his door hanger list weed control and his web site also list it.

Thanks

rcreech
02-06-2008, 10:58 PM
I had a couple of customers call me today and tell me that another company was able to beat my prices. Ask if I could match the new price. 5000 sq. ft. lawn my price $39 there price $25. There is no way I can match this price. I called this company and acted like I was interested in their service. Without even looking he quoted me $25. I ask him if he was insured and he said no. I ask him if he had an applicators lic. he told me that it was not required. I ask him what fertilizer he used and what he used for weed control. He said he get all his stuff from Lesco. "Lesco fertilizer and MOMENTUM for weed control"
How is he able to buy momentum without a lic.

Should I turn him into the TDA or pest control board? Should I tell the customers that called me today?

He has no lic. but his door hanger list weed control and his web site also list it.

Thanks


I know what I would do!

We should NEVER lose work to someone that isn't qualified!

They are not only breaking the law...they are ruining the industry with cheap prices and they don't have a freak'n clue what they are doing!

PerfectEarth
02-06-2008, 11:02 PM
That is horrible. First, let your customers know how this guy operates his "business." Absolutely let them know he is not licensed and not insured.

Beyond that, talk to Lesco. Maybe tell them you'd appreciate it if them did not sell to unlicensed, uninsured individuals and you'd be happy to take your business elsewhere if they continue this practice.

Yea, I'd contact the State. You went through all the trouble to be legit and abide by the laws. Why shouldn't your professional competition?

Armadillolawncare
02-06-2008, 11:26 PM
I don't believe that Momentum is a restricted use pesticide. If it is not restricted use then Lesco has no need to ask for a license. As far as for insurance they definately have no right to ask if someone is insured prior to them selling them product. I would definately call the TDA (1-800-TELL-TDA) and check them out.

newz7151
02-06-2008, 11:54 PM
Tell the people that called to bring you the guy's business card with the $25 quote on it and his applicator's license number on it, and that you will get back with them after you verify the number. Should open a few portions of grey matter.

willietd2
02-07-2008, 12:11 AM
i talked to my lesco rep. and he said they dont even check for a license. had the same thing happening here. had a little talk with my ag inspector, dont have to worry about that guy any more. maybe its like full auto weapons, its not illegal to own the drop in pins, its just illegal to install them.

SpreadNSpray
02-07-2008, 12:12 AM
there price $25. Without even looking he quoted me $25. I ask him if he was insured and he said no. I ask him if he had an applicators lic. he told me that it was not required.
Should I turn him into the TDA or pest control board?
Thanks

That's a no brainer. No insurance, no license.

To get a license in my state they require proof of insurance every year.
To get insurance you need to be registered with the gov as a business.
Once registered as a business your on the radar.

Lets see him charge $25 now!

Whitey4
02-07-2008, 12:26 AM
It's easy (and some might even call it cowardly) for me to stop a guy like this. I call my local association. They report him. I don't need bricks being thrown through my windows. Guys like this should be caught. We all had to spend a lot of money and time to be legal and legit. People who want to take those risks should know what could happen to them. I say, let it happen to him.

jdmcat
02-07-2008, 01:30 AM
i don't know about texas, but here in idaho, you can't apply any pesticide for money unless you have a license, and you have to maintain insurance or you lose your license unless you file for an exemption and certify you wont do any applications. the only exception to this rule is if you don't advertise spraying, don't list it on an estimate or invoice, and you don't use motorized equipment. anyone can buy non-restricted use pesticides. if texas' laws are anything like they are here, it sounds like this guy is breaking the law, you should point this out to your customers and i would not hesitate to turn him in.

Exact Rototilling
02-07-2008, 02:09 AM
" . . . here in idaho, you can't apply any pesticide for money unless you have a license, and you have to maintain insurance or you lose your license unless you file for an exemption and certify you wont do any applications. the only exception to this rule is if you don't advertise spraying, don't list it on an estimate or invoice, and you don't use motorized equipment. .....Jdmcat,

I have no plans on spraying herbicides or pesticides of any kind however what are the Idaho regs for fertilizer applications? If any.

jdmcat
02-07-2008, 03:32 AM
i believe you can apply fertilizer without a license, but i'm not 100% sure. I got my license before i ever sprayed a single yard. i would call the dept. of agriculture to find out for sure. you can read the rules and regulations here:

http://agri.state.id.us/Categories/Pesticides/pesticidelawsandrulesphp.php

if you call Chuck Hawley (his number is on the site under contact info) he will definitely be able to answer your question.

Jeff

Green Pastures
02-07-2008, 08:31 AM
All due respect to all who have an applicators license.

What stopped me from getting taxed er uh I meant to say licensed to apply the same exact stuff homeowners are applying was the fact that ANYONE can walk into Home Depot, Lowes, Farm supply stores and Lesco and buy ANYTHING on the shelf without a license.

My justification for not being licensed was that there was no way I could compete. I said many times when the Government who wants to tax me bucks up and REQUIRES a license of EVERYONE who purchases these chemicals THEN and only then will I get voluntarily apply for a tax er uh I meant to say permit.

YMMV

And you can flame me if you want but I'm licensed now, but still not happy about it.

LushGreenLawn
02-07-2008, 08:59 AM
I'm not flaming you, but just so that you know...

Having a pesticide license does not in any way cause you to pay more taxes. Taxes are based off of your income, not the type of work that you do. Yes, you do pay a yearly fee to be licensed to help pay for the enforcement, but if you did not, everyone else would through higher taxes.

The purpose of the certification is to (or at least try to) make sure the people who are applying pesticides know what they are doing, and to minimize the impact on the environment and lessen the chance of making yourself or someone else sick. Thereis a big difference between the homeowner who kills his lawn with putting down to much scotts, and the novice business owner who buys a 55 gallon drum of trimec and sprays millions af acres.

RigglePLC
02-07-2008, 10:09 AM
So...I looked at the Texas Dept Ag website for a list of licensed applicators--but did not find it. It seems if the public wants to know if the company they hire is licensed--there is no way to find out. But maybe I was not looking in the right place. What other states have lists of certified applicators online? Or a way for the homeowner to check?

AceFinish
02-07-2008, 10:14 AM
I had a couple of customers call me today and tell me that another company was able to beat my prices. Ask if I could match the new price. 5000 sq. ft. lawn my price $39 there price $25. There is no way I can match this price. I called this company and acted like I was interested in their service. Without even looking he quoted me $25. I ask him if he was insured and he said no. I ask him if he had an applicators lic. he told me that it was not required. I ask him what fertilizer he used and what he used for weed control. He said he get all his stuff from Lesco. "Lesco fertilizer and MOMENTUM for weed control"
How is he able to buy momentum without a lic.

Should I turn him into the TDA or pest control board? Should I tell the customers that called me today?

He has no lic. but his door hanger list weed control and his web site also list it.

Thanks
I would if I were you. I don't know what the law states in Texas but I know in Illinois you can spread granular with out a a license but liquid you have to be applicator certified.

RigglePLC
02-07-2008, 10:15 AM
Fer instance Michigan lists all licensed busineses here:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mda/mda_2008rptWebAlphaByCounty_221587_7.pdf

The Lawn Ranger, Inc
02-07-2008, 10:27 AM
If you turn in a written complaint to the TDA they have to investigate. We Have been told there are some new laws on the books in Tennessee that may give strength to the state for enforcement. We need a Tennessee Association to combat against illegal applicators. If you would like to dicuss this call me (615) 826-1261. THE LAWN RANGER

THE KEMOSABE


My mistake I just realized you are in Texas. One comment to get license to do treatments is JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!!!

Armadillolawncare
02-07-2008, 10:31 AM
In Texas you can apply fert for compensation without a license but not any type of pesticide. That includes weed and feed which you need to be licensed to put down.

SpreadNSpray
02-07-2008, 10:35 AM
All due respect to all who have an applicators license.

What stopped me from getting taxed er uh I meant to say licensed.
My justification for not being licensed was that there was no way I could compete.
YMMV
And you can flame me if you want but I'm licensed now, but still not happy about it.

Glad to see your are licensed now. Hopefully you see the problem if some are not licensed. If they can't compete because of license and taxes they should NOT compete. That's just the anti to get into the game. Then the real competition starts. The last thing I need is for some joker to start advertising $25.00 per lawn. If their not licensed...turn em in!

Whitey4
02-07-2008, 12:25 PM
All due respect to all who have an applicators license.

What stopped me from getting taxed er uh I meant to say licensed to apply the same exact stuff homeowners are applying was the fact that ANYONE can walk into Home Depot, Lowes, Farm supply stores and Lesco and buy ANYTHING on the shelf without a license.

My justification for not being licensed was that there was no way I could compete. I said many times when the Government who wants to tax me bucks up and REQUIRES a license of EVERYONE who purchases these chemicals THEN and only then will I get voluntarily apply for a tax er uh I meant to say permit.

YMMV

And you can flame me if you want but I'm licensed now, but still not happy about it.

Joe Homeowner is allowed to buy these products, and so are unlicensed LCO's. Joe Homeowner isn't breaking the law when he applies pesticides to his own property. The LCO that does it for hire IS breaking the law. Why require the LCO to be certified and licensed? Because the LCO can put down a lot more chemical than Joe Homeowner. He is in a position to do much more harm with uneducated irresponsible use of pesticides.

It doesn't make it OK to break the law because someone else is. I can buy liquor, but I can't sell it without a license. If some guy started selling booze out of his trunk in front of a legit liquor store, you can bet he'd get turned in within the time it takes to dial the police. Buying and selling pesticides is no different. You want to open a pub, you better get your license, period.... or suffer the consequences.

This idea that one is a jerk if he reports an illegal company is nonsense. I would have no problem telling a customer that they too are breaking the law if they hire an illegal applicator. No threats, just inform them that they potentially could be fined as well. I would not report an LCO that doesn't have a business license, but pesticides are a different animal. If some illegal company is going after my accounts and my ability to make an honest living... I'm not about to sit on my hands and watch.

jdmcat
02-07-2008, 12:32 PM
So...I looked at the Texas Dept Ag website for a list of licensed applicators--but did not find it. It seems if the public wants to know if the company they hire is licensed--there is no way to find out. But maybe I was not looking in the right place. What other states have lists of certified applicators online? Or a way for the homeowner to check?

idaho dept of ag lets you do a search by lic #, last name, and/or county.

Grassbuster
02-07-2008, 12:33 PM
Whatever happened to Loyality? I mean a customer of yours should not even question that little of a difference.

MnLefty
02-07-2008, 12:49 PM
Whatever happened to Loyality? I mean a customer of yours should not even question that little of a difference.

That's a 35+% price difference... would you stay loyal and not even question your fert supplier if you had another one that offered you fertilizer for 35% less??

SpreadNSpray
02-07-2008, 12:50 PM
$14.00 difference is big.Thats a 35% difference in price. Some of my customers might try it.

Grassbuster
02-07-2008, 01:10 PM
Hey, In our business there is always someone who will do it for less. Yes, $14 is some money but you would like to think if he was doing his job, why would they look? You get what you pay for. People here brag about the prices they get to cut grass. How do you get to have the "ideal customer base" if they keep searching for cheaper rates. I usaully do something for all my customers at one time or another to try to prevent them from looking. I also do not raise prices when times are tough - that would also send them looking. I like loyality, bottom line..IMO.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
02-07-2008, 03:00 PM
Hey, In our business there is always someone who will do it for less. Yes, $14 is some money but you would like to think if he was doing his job, why would they look? You get what you pay for. People here brag about the prices they get to cut grass. How do you get to have the "ideal customer base" if they keep searching for cheaper rates. I usaully do something for all my customers at one time or another to try to prevent them from looking. I also do not raise prices when times are tough - that would also send them looking. I like loyality, bottom line..IMO.

Times are tough? How do you know when times are "tough" for YOUR customers? I'm tired of hearing the media tell me everybody has it rough right now! I'm not having a tought time & don't know anyone who is out of a job, yet the media :cry: all days long about the dire predicament of everybody. If times were tough for everybody, including myself, why would I take the hit of fert. price increase & not pass it along?

SpreadNSpray
02-07-2008, 03:14 PM
Hey, In our business there is always someone who will do it for less. Yes, $14 is some money but you would like to think if he was doing his job, why would they look? You get what you pay for. People here brag about the prices they get to cut grass. How do you get to have the "ideal customer base" if they keep searching for cheaper rates. I usaully do something for all my customers at one time or another to try to prevent them from looking. I also do not raise prices when times are tough - that would also send them looking. I like loyality, bottom line..IMO.

The point is if your licensed, insured and paying taxes (running a legitimate business) You are not going to be 35% cheaper than everyone else. How is the customer just supposed to know "you get what you pay for". For all they know the guy is legit and offering the same service for 35% less. Maybe my customers aren't as smart as yours.:laugh:

Grassbuster
02-07-2008, 03:16 PM
Times are tough? How do you know when times are "tough" for YOUR customers? I'm tired of hearing the media tell me everybody has it rough right now! I'm not having a tought time & don't know anyone who is out of a job, yet the media :cry: all days long about the dire predicament of everybody. If times were tough for everybody, including myself, why would I take the hit of fert. price increase & not pass it along?

Maybe not TOUGH right now but certainly not as good as one year ago.

Grassbuster
02-07-2008, 03:17 PM
The point is if your licensed, insured and paying taxes (running a legitimate business) You are not going to be 35% cheaper than everyone else. How is the customer just supposed to know "you get what you pay for". For all they know the guy is legit and offering the same service for 35% less. Maybe my customers aren't as smart as yours.:laugh:

Well ....... then that falls under the "lowballer" catagory which is always covered under other threads..... which gets me back to what happened to customer loyality?

grassroots lawn
02-07-2008, 03:31 PM
Here in pa we have the same problem..the fert dealers sell to whoever buys the product[show me the money]but you have to be licensed by the state to put any chemical down on homeowners lawns..somehow there is something wrong with this picture..I would bet ,in my area that most people,landscapers,lawn services etc dont even have the credentials needed.some use there fathers farm license Bu # yes we could all charge less without license fees.liability insurance,etc.To me it doesnt make sense that the state cannot control the vendors in a more efficient manner...

MnLefty
02-07-2008, 04:36 PM
Here in pa we have the same problem..the fert dealers sell to whoever buys the product[show me the money]but you have to be licensed by the state to put any chemical down on homeowners lawns..somehow there is something wrong with this picture..I would bet ,in my area that most people,landscapers,lawn services etc dont even have the credentials needed.some use there fathers farm license Bu # yes we could all charge less without license fees.liability insurance,etc.To me it doesnt make sense that the state cannot control the vendors in a more efficient manner...

To me it doesn't make sense that the state cannot control unlicensed applicators in a more efficient manner. It shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for state inspectors to make appointments with every single LCO they can find in the license database, in the phone book, every ad or flyer or door hanger they see... Make a non-optional appointment ( you will be here at this time/date) to inspect product storage, application records, business licensing/insurance, etc.. they don't need to be OSHA inspection-like, or IRS audit-like... just a quick look at the simple stuff. One inspector should be able to 6-8 daily. Anything out of whack throws a red-flag for further investigation. No business license/insurance, red flag, no applicator license, but pesticides in the records, red flag, empty pesticide jugs but no records, red flag. It just shouldn't be that hard to regulate, at least more efficiently than it has been in most states.

Until states change their laws to say Joe Homeowner cannot apply general use pesticides to his own lawn (never happening) or set laws that anybody purchasing xx amount of said pesticide must show proper license... until either of those happen there's no reason to blame vendors or try to hold them accountable for selling to unlicensed applicators.

p0wd3rp1l0t
02-07-2008, 04:54 PM
the ag place in my town wont hardly let you in the door unless your licensed but over the internet i think it would be hard to monitor licensed and unlicensed applicators

Mscotrid
02-07-2008, 06:08 PM
This idea that one is a jerk if he reports an illegal company is nonsense. I would have no problem telling a customer that they too are breaking the law if they hire an illegal applicator. No threats, just inform them that they potentially could be fined as well. I would not report an LCO that doesn't have a business license, but pesticides are a different animal. If some illegal company is going after my accounts and my ability to make an honest living... I'm not about to sit on my hands and watch.[/QUOTE]

I don't think homeowners would be breaking the law if they had an non certified applicator on their lawn. Let me re-phrase that, in my part of the country it would not be illegal, can't speak for Whitey's neighborhood. I also fail to see the difference between a buisness license and pesicide license. Either way their skirting the law and forcing me to compete at a disadvantage. I pay my fees and insurance and everyone should.

I noticed a few guys say "I don't spray so I'm ok" Once again in my neighborhood it dosn't matter. It's all about the (CIDE) PestiCIDE, HerbiCIDE, InsectiCIDE, FungiCIDE. Spread it, Spray it, Throw it, or Spit it without the license you cannot legally apply it for hire. And yes for those that are wondering granular Pre-Emergent wheter on fert or not is a CIDE. Now in some states straight fert can be applied without a Certified Applicators License but you would still need all other business and insurance papers.

SpreadNSpray
02-07-2008, 06:09 PM
Well ....... then that falls under the "lowballer" catagory which is always covered under other threads..... which gets me back to what happened to customer loyality?

I guess I would not expect my customers to be "loyal" with a 35% price difference. If a long term customer dumped me for a $2 or $3 difference after getting great service and great results for a few years.....Then I would be raising the loyalty issue.

ATVracer
02-07-2008, 09:51 PM
Extremelawn-Why don't you post a link to his website for all of us to see?

boats47
02-08-2008, 12:15 PM
Throw the guy under the bus!!! We have all spent a S#!% load of time and money to get where we are and for someone to be out there stealling from us is BS. We have all discussed this in the past and have all agreed that these guys need to be put down. As far as Lesco selling the products, unless it is restricted they do not ask for a lisc and are not required to, that is the job of the environmental police. Just because Lesco does not ask for a lisc, does not mean they can put the products down unless it is streight fertilizer. Even with the fertillizer, it is going to be a matter of time (near future) to where that will be regulated.
It is a never ending problem with not enough Environmental police and that is why we need to assist them with info, pictures, times, dates, customers. Otherwise we might as well stop the bitching about this topic and suck it up as a loss.

jrc lawncare
02-08-2008, 12:57 PM
I had a couple of customers call me today and tell me that another company was able to beat my prices. Ask if I could match the new price. 5000 sq. ft. lawn my price $39 there price $25. There is no way I can match this price. I called this company and acted like I was interested in their service. Without even looking he quoted me $25. I ask him if he was insured and he said no. I ask him if he had an applicators lic. he told me that it was not required. I ask him what fertilizer he used and what he used for weed control. He said he get all his stuff from Lesco. "Lesco fertilizer and MOMENTUM for weed control"
How is he able to buy momentum without a lic.

Should I turn him into the TDA or pest control board? Should I tell the customers that called me today?

He has no lic. but his door hanger list weed control and his web site also list it.

Thanks Nail him........

thecompletehome
02-08-2008, 01:15 PM
This website has some of the states' pesticide licensing data on it. I do not know about other states, but Nebraska's license data is by applicator name and not company name so it can be a little difficult to find information without knowing the owner's name. But I thought this might help some of you. Go to this page and at the bottom there is a dropdown menu for state regulatory data.

http://www.kellysolutions.com/

TPnTX
07-17-2008, 08:27 AM
wrong, you cannot spread fert commercially without a licesnse in texas.

JeffNY
07-17-2008, 09:16 AM
Just curious, if I wanted to do something crazy like spray round-up and NOT charge for it, is that legal?
Some of these flower beds I just really wish I could do a squirt here, squirt there with round up.

robertsturf
07-17-2008, 09:24 AM
I found out yesterday that our DOA inspector for our region was forced to resign last year because he was taking a bribe from a local company here to not enforce PPE standards. I was wondering what was going on because I had seen them out all the time spraying in sleeve-less shirts and sometimes shorts. I'm thinking what the F*** is going on!!

KrayzKajun
07-17-2008, 10:01 AM
That is horrible. First, let your customers know how this guy operates his "business." Absolutely let them know he is not licensed and not insured.

Beyond that, talk to Lesco. Maybe tell them you'd appreciate it if them did not sell to unlicensed, uninsured individuals and you'd be happy to take your business elsewhere if they continue this practice.

Yea, I'd contact the State. You went through all the trouble to be legit and abide by the laws. Why shouldn't your professional competition?

dittooooooo!!!:clapping::clapping:

Putting down chemicals without a liscense is dangerous! :cry::cry: some people jus dont get it! I would turn them in yesterday!

LushGreenLawn
07-17-2008, 09:59 PM
Welcome to Febuary Guys!

txgrassguy
07-17-2008, 11:29 PM
wrong, you cannot spread fert commercially without a licesnse in texas.

According to what TDA rule, especially since Structural Pest has been absorbed by the TDA?
Fertilization without any pesticide has been allowed, unless of course it has changed recently.
Over the counter stuff can be sprayed as well without a license as long as records are kept for two years - unless this too has been changed in '08.

The Lawn Ranger, Inc
07-18-2008, 08:21 AM
I Don't Know About New York, But In Tennessee If You Charge For Any Work On Site Or Spray Chemical On Ay Property Other Than You On Private Property Without License And A Chrter Number On Truck It Is Illegal!

The Kemosabe

Frank Fescue
07-18-2008, 05:29 PM
yeah turn him in so you can feel good about forcing some guys kids to starve. But no you're doing it for the honor of all licensed pest control techs. you sir are a patriot and a man among boys.

why do you care, honestly why do you care if he's licensed or not. "he's taking away business" well he's probably providing an inmferior service. no license and no insurance? hell the guy will probably decide he wants to install cable in 3 months anyway. we all thank crumb lawn and scotts for giving us business because they do such medicore work. well thank guys like these for doing the same thing. the guys lack of a license and insurance shows zero commitment to business. factor that in with his $25 site unseen price quote and its only a matter of time before he runs himself out of business anyway.

"he's giving the business a bad name"

no, he's giving HIS business a bad name. theres a lot of crappy restaurants do you think because someone bought a $4 chewy and fatty steak and cheese sub at one place they'll swear off buying them all together?

of course they won't. let the guy run his business his way, if it works for him great, but lets be serious he's going to fail, just be sure you're there to pick up the peices when he does.

The Lawn Ranger, Inc
07-18-2008, 06:00 PM
My Problem With The Unlicensed Companies Is More And More They Are Allowed To Bid Jobs And Get Them When I Have To Present A Portfolio Fo Requirements That Drive My Costs **they Lie And Get The Bid And Regulatory Services Does Nothing But Come Out And Inspect Me Because I Complain!

The Kemosabe