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View Full Version : Drive Vs. Q4


GREEN-UP
02-09-2008, 02:25 PM
I have used both products before. I was wondering which one others think is the best to use and cost effective. I like Q4, but so expensive. Drive usually took 2 applications, but was cheaper to use and I think you get more mixes w the granular. Also, do you recommend mixing sedgehammer and Q4 or drive together in a backpack sprayerwhen you have crabgrass/nutsedge?

duncan7455
02-09-2008, 06:58 PM
i personally have had great results with Q-4 mixed with very little spreader-sticker dont see the need to further spike it with any thing else. I have not had great results with drive. Sedgehammer works great, but i like that Q-4 works on nutsedge, annual grassy weeds, and broadleafs alone.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-09-2008, 09:02 PM
Quinclorac is the active ingredient in Q4 that kills crabgrass, if you read the
Drive 75 label you will also notice Quinclorac is the active ingredient also.
Drive is what kills crabgrass in the Q4 product, but from my experience once you figuire out the cost per acre Q4 is the better deal being that you get nutsedge suppression and a better range of broadleaf weeds, I always Q4 at the higher rate gallon/acre and usually get really nice results, Drive75 at the
1#/acre rate still does work nice with the right sticker, most university studies show hawkeye with Drive75 is the best combo.

FdLLawnMan
02-09-2008, 09:16 PM
If you are going to use Drive you must use Methylated Seed Oil as the sticker, otherwise your results will be disappointing. If you use it with the MSO one application is all you need. I cannot stress enough that MSO is the secret when trying to kill crabgrass with Drive. Q4 controls a much broader range of weeds than Drive does.

Shades of Green LService
02-10-2008, 09:00 AM
I only use Drive for CG w/ no oil or sticker and have hag nothing but Great results w/ 1 app.

Cubguy
02-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Used Drive for the first time last year with Lesco sticker because no one had MSO.
Worked good early in the season, not as good later. Anyone know where to get MSO
in the San Antonio area?

boats47
02-10-2008, 12:09 PM
there really two different products in a sense. You use Drive for the crabgrass even on mature plants and Q4 as your 4 way for other situations plus CG control. The only reason to have both would be cost, otherwise I think we would all just keep Q4 in a tank and use that as the cure-all to weeds/sedges.
I know, that here in RI we have a big problem with ground ivy and Q4 spiked with quicksilver and sticker reall does a job on it and believe me I have tried everything under the sun (just about).

quiet
02-10-2008, 12:22 PM
Used Drive for the first time last year with Lesco sticker because no one had MSO.
Worked good early in the season, not as good later. Anyone know where to get MSO
in the San Antonio area?

That's typical. Drive works very effectively on "new" and "old" crabgrass. It struggles a bit with crabgrass during the "mid-life" stages, and that's where using MSO as a sticker is really necessary. As you've noted, during the early and late stages of crabgrass, any sticker will do fine.

Call Estes in Waco at (254) 662-3092 and they'll UPS a bottle to you.

Rayholio
02-10-2008, 12:33 PM
I've used both quite a bit, and I feel that Drive does what it says, and Q4 doesn't.. Q4controls broadleaf great.. and everything else (especially nutsedge) is hit or miss..

Maybe I shoud experiment with different stickers....

Cubguy
02-10-2008, 02:29 PM
Thanks quiet!

Will call them

Midstate Lawncare
02-10-2008, 03:02 PM
in my experience, nutsedge and crabgrass usually pops up in patches.... why not take the two minutes to pull it than spen the $120 for drive or whatever it is for q4? and use less chemical.... Remember, "The best weed control you can have is a THICK, DENSE TURF BASE!!!!". Now I'm no tree hugger, but I know, the less chemicals the better. That being said, there is nothing better than drive mixed right with sticker under 85 deg for severe crabgrass or nutsedge infestations.

quiet
02-10-2008, 03:51 PM
Pulling nutsedge ain't gonna do it. Unless you get the underground nutlet, it'll be back. Quinclorac won't kill nutsedge either, only suppress it for a bit. Drive recommends adding basagran to the mix to add nutsedge control.

RigglePLC
02-10-2008, 04:21 PM
I like Drive with crop oil--its cheap--but Drive with Capsil surfactant is also great. mostly hand sprayer for spot spray.

Remember Drive settles out quickly; you need to agitatate or shake the sprayer very frequently--and it may settle out overnight. At the high rate the crabgrass should get a slight white residue when you spray it.

Q4 does not settle out much.

Rayholio
02-10-2008, 05:50 PM
as far as I know, you can't pull nutsedge.. just makes the probem worse.

LawnDFortCollins
02-12-2008, 04:28 PM
We got crapie results from the Q4. We have better results with drive and mixing it with Kinetic and Trimec. With our cost per 1000sqft, drive was cheaper by $.50.

wrivers
02-12-2008, 04:56 PM
I have used both products before. I was wondering which one others think is the best to use and cost effective. I like Q4, but so expensive. Drive usually took 2 applications, but was cheaper to use and I think you get more mixes w the granular. Also, do you recommend mixing sedgehammer and Q4 or drive together in a backpack sprayerwhen you have crabgrass/nutsedge?

Greenup,

I used quite a bit of Drive here in Dallas during late summer 2007. We had a very wet summer and the pre-emerge was gone by June. I had a new account that had insane amounts of crabgrass and nutsedge in common bermuda. I sprayed Drive tank mixed with Sedgehammer (because the client had some and asked me to ue it instead of my products) and got most of the crabgrass, but the sedges were mostly back within a few weeks (because sedgehammer sucks on purple nutsedge)

I treated again with Drive and Certainty. I haven't seen a sedge since, and the second app of Drive wiped out the crabgrass. I use MSO with the Drive and it works fine with the Certainty as well.

The bottom line is, don't use cheap products, you'll get cheap results. If you don't have to come back, then you've already saved yourself money, and the client thinks you know what you're doing. Also, always use the recommended adjuvants on the label. They're on it for a reason. BTW, Certainty works much better on purple nutsedge than anything else (except Monument which is only for non-residential).

Midstate Lawncare
02-13-2008, 10:57 AM
Pulling nutsedge ain't gonna do it. Unless you get the underground nutlet, it'll be back. Quinclorac won't kill nutsedge either, only suppress it for a bit. Drive recommends adding basagran to the mix to add nutsedge control.

you are right, just like with any weed.... you have to pull the root!

as far as I know, you can't pull nutsedge.. just makes the probem worse.

obviously you haven't tried.

I'm not trying to be preachy, nor am I a tree hugger.... but I was under the impression that it is irresopnsible to use nothing but chemical control methods for any "pest problem" an applicator comes across. 1. Why not try selling seeding to block out many weeds that may come up, and make a lot mor money. 2. Are you that swamped with work that you cant spend literally 2 minutes to pull out a patch of nutsedge or just lazy?(yellow nutsedge in my area). 3. You can't tell me that you can't pull nutsedge, I do it every year! 4. If you don't use all of your drive or Q4 this year, you will use it next year right?.... That means that is less money you will have to spend next year right?.... So the less money you spend = the more money you make right?.... Maybe your customer will be more impressed by seeing you pull a "small patch" of nutsedge than spraying. I am by no means saying stop spraying drive and Q4 or whatever, but when it comes to just a couple minutes.... seriously.... if you are that swamped or just too thick around the middle....well.... listen, we should all be a little more conservative with these chemicals, who knows what they will do to us in 20 years.

Harley-D
02-13-2008, 11:59 AM
you are right, just like with any weed.... you have to pull the root!



obviously you haven't tried.

I'm not trying to be preachy, nor am I a tree hugger.... but I was under the impression that it is irresopnsible to use nothing but chemical control methods for any "pest problem" an applicator comes across. 1. Why not try selling seeding to block out many weeds that may come up, and make a lot mor money. 2. Are you that swamped with work that you cant spend literally 2 minutes to pull out a patch of nutsedge or just lazy?(yellow nutsedge in my area). 3. You can't tell me that you can't pull nutsedge, I do it every year! 4. If you don't use all of your drive or Q4 this year, you will use it next year right?.... That means that is less money you will have to spend next year right?.... So the less money you spend = the more money you make right?.... Maybe your customer will be more impressed by seeing you pull a "small patch" of nutsedge than spraying. I am by no means saying stop spraying drive and Q4 or whatever, but when it comes to just a couple minutes.... seriously.... if you are that swamped or just too thick around the middle....well.... listen, we should all be a little more conservative with these chemicals, who knows what they will do to us in 20 years.

You do it every year, huh? I bet if you spray it, you won't be pulling it the next year!!! Let the chemical kill the roots. You pull nutsedge every year because you pull nutsedge every year. (The chicken or the egg synopsis)

The use of chemicals is not the problem, the irresponsible use of chemicals is the problem. ie homeowners, unlicensed users You should call the local EPA agent or office and talk with them if you don't think that these chemicals are safe if used by the label.

Oh, and go ahead and sell reseeding to someone in a severe drought without irrigation. We'll see how long that flies. Not trying to start anything, just showing the other side of the coin.

Rayholio
02-13-2008, 02:24 PM
Ok.... If you really think you can 'pull' nutsedge and have it not return.. it might be time for a knowledge update on nutsedge..

Nutsedge is called NUTsedge because it grows nut-like seed under the surface of the soil. These nuts are connected, very loosely to the root ball. when you pull the sedge up, and you notice the roots are with it, you are assuming that because you got the roots, it's never coming back.

What happened was you sheered the nuts off under the ground. providing there is enough moisture, the netsege will return.

The only reason sedge hammer, and other herbicides work, is because it kills the connected nut as part of the process..

I'm with ya on pulling weeds that can be pulled.. but nutsedge isn't one of them.

PSUTURFGEEK
02-14-2008, 12:03 AM
Actually Sedgehammer/Manage, does not go after the Nutlet, only the top growth, Dismiss will go after the Nutlet itself and eventually control the problem, Monsanto saw this coming and sold Manage just in time, I'm not saying sedgehammer's a bad product it just may have you misinformed .

Rayholio
02-14-2008, 02:28 AM
right on... I didn't really know that manage wasn't a perminant solution.. thanks for the info!
:)