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eskerlite
02-09-2008, 03:17 PM
You all have to be in the presence of Mike Gambinos new transformer in which he developed because no other manufacturer would do it for him. I have seen it and it is the bomb. Thats all Ill say about it now. If You are curious and want the latest greatest transformer, Get in touch with Mike G. Anyone who has been in the presence of the transformer i am talking about please tell us what You think.
www.Gambinolighting.com
Sean C.

Eden Lights
02-09-2008, 03:36 PM
Can someone send me a close up?

Pro-Scapes
02-09-2008, 03:53 PM
i agree sean... i have had mine for a few weeks and nothing else comes close for versatility and easy of use. I am down in lousianna this weekend visiting another contractor and he too likes it.

Price is competitve too. Eddie I posted pics before rememeber. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=211398 in a thread called transformer layout. There is very little left to be desired on this transformer. About the only foul I can think of at this point is there is no 900 and 1200w model, yet.

pete scalia
02-09-2008, 10:29 PM
I gotta get me one of them and try it out. Once I do I'll tell you if it's all that. You can take that to the bank.

Lite4
02-09-2008, 10:38 PM
Billy,
After looking at the pictures again, I think I have figuired out where to mount my fuse blocks inside the tranny case. I need to get one of these things ordered. I want to display one in my show booth at the end of March.

pete scalia
02-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Billy,
After looking at the pictures again, I think I have figuired out where to mount my fuse blocks inside the tranny case. I need to get one of these things ordered. I want to display one in my show booth at the end of March.

Fuse block? Doesn't the transformer come with secondary fuses or is it like Uniques?

Lite4
02-09-2008, 11:21 PM
No, I make my own fuse blocks for each individual home run circuit.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 09:36 AM
No, I make my own fuse blocks for each individual home run circuit.

Why do you feel this is necessary?

eskerlite
02-10-2008, 10:07 AM
The trans has secondary breakers, primary breaker and a thermal fuse. Secondary breakers and primary breaker have leds on them.
Sean C.

Pro-Scapes
02-10-2008, 10:15 AM
Sean is right. I understand Tims ideas behind fusing tho and thats a whole nother thread to be discussed.

The led indicators are great. Just dont stare into the blue secondary ones... they are bright!

The bypass controller switch is superb for when the timer and or contoller is mounted inside the home. No unplugging things to activate a trans just flip a switch and your done. The fact you can put ANYTHING inside it with no issues is a huge plus. Never before have I seen a trans so versatile.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 10:38 AM
The trans has secondary breakers, primary breaker and a thermal fuse. Secondary breakers and primary breaker have leds on them.
Sean C.

If it has so many forms of protection already then why add more? For the ultimate in safety don't get out of bed in the morning.

Pro-Scapes
02-10-2008, 10:48 AM
If it has so many forms of protection already then why add more? For the ultimate in safety don't get out of bed in the morning.

Best idea i ever heard... Certainly would lower my overhead now wouldnt it :)

breaker panel....primary breaker...secondary breaker...thermal protection... whats next... do you want to give it some birth control pills ??

I understand secondary fuses can help with situations such as a homeowner adding higher wattage lamps. I just dont think its needed with all the protection that is already present its stll a very very safe system

Lite4
02-10-2008, 11:24 AM
I fuse each run individually. It is just an extra layer of protection for me. I do this now as a result of a recent event. One of my past customers asked her lawn maintenance guy to replace the bulbs in the fixtures that I had mounted in the pergola attatched to her house. I had 20 watters in them and they were replaced with 50 watters from Home Cheapo and the secondary breakers failed to trip the circuit. Well, I am sure you can imagine the results. The wire and fixtures just melted and nearly caught her house on fire, so you can understand why I like to protect my runs now. 1. It keeps the homeowner from overloading my system and melting wire and fixtures. The fuse will be sacrificed before my wire or lights melt away. 2. It makes a problem with a circuit easier to diagnose. If there are 3 runs on 1 circuit, and only one goes out, I don't have to look at all three. 3. It is just one more thing that seperates me from my local competition in giving the customer an added degree of safety. It is inexpensive but very effective.

eskerlite
02-10-2008, 11:41 AM
Sounds to me You are using the wrong transformer.
Sean C.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 11:55 AM
What brand transformer?

How long was the homerun/s that burned up?

What was the gauge of the wire?

Thank you for your cooperation. We will get to the bottom of this.

Lite4
02-10-2008, 12:06 PM
Pete,
A brand you and I both use frequently. Run- about 100 feet long. 12/2, 3 other runs on same circuit. 190 watts total on circuit. Adding 50s pushed total to 310 watts. And yes there was significant damage to the other 2 runs as well, but thankfully they were in the ground and not on any structures.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 12:10 PM
Pete,
A brand you and I both use frequently. Run- about 100 feet long. 12/2, 3 other runs on same circuit. 190 watts total on circuit. Adding 50s pushed total to 310 watts. And yes there was significant damage to the other 2 runs as well, but thankfully they were in the ground and not on any structures.

Oh Goodness No!

Even more reason to make a switch to Gambino's transformer when my season starts.

Eden Lights
02-10-2008, 04:54 PM
No sense in secrets, Pete I heard you were a Vista tranny guy? Isn't this forum about education? I put you guys before any Brand?

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 04:58 PM
No sense in secrets, Pete I heard you were a Vista tranny guy? Isn't this forum about education? I put you guys before any Brand?

That was until 12:06 PM today when Firefly made his life altering post about transformer safety. I used to be a Vista tranny guy now I'm a Gambino tranny guy effective spring 08. Gotta change with the times ya know.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 06:04 PM
The bypass controller switch is superb for when the timer and or contoller is mounted inside the home. No unplugging things to activate a trans just flip a switch and your done. The fact you can put ANYTHING inside it with no issues is a huge plus. Never before have I seen a trans so versatile.

No way! wow!! A bypass controller switch?!! You mean just like the control override switch that is on every Nighscaping Powercenter for the past 10 years? Sure is a handy feature isnt it?
:laugh:

Also, compare the internal working space of this new transformer with a NS Powercenter... I think you will find that the NS Powercenter has more space (almost double from what I can tell) and has bigger terminal blocks (lugs).
:)

Of course the NS Powercenter also has a very versatile and easily customized internal modular control bay, with the largest selection of control modules on the market. You can even install UPB switches and controllers inside by using a blank modular control bay plate.
:)

Those internal LEDs are pretty trick mind you... and I do like a door on hinges.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 06:59 PM
No way! wow!! A bypass controller switch?!! You mean just like the control override switch that is on every Nighscaping Powercenter for the past 10 years? Sure is a handy feature isnt it?
:laugh:

Also, compare the internal working space of this new transformer with a NS Powercenter... I think you will find that the NS Powercenter has more space (almost double from what I can tell) and has bigger terminal blocks (lugs).
:)

Of course the NS Powercenter also has a very versatile and easily customized internal modular control bay, with the largest selection of control modules on the market. You can even install UPB switches and controllers inside by using a blank modular control bay plate.
:)

Those internal LEDs are pretty trick mind you... and I do like a door on hinges.

Are you saying Gambino ripped off Nightscaping?
Where are the green fuses at?
What do you care anyway. Your on the Qtrans train.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 07:11 PM
I fuse each run individually. It is just an extra layer of protection for me. I do this now as a result of a recent event. One of my past customers asked her lawn maintenance guy to replace the bulbs in the fixtures that I had mounted in the pergola attatched to her house. I had 20 watters in them and they were replaced with 50 watters from Home Cheapo and the secondary breakers failed to trip the circuit. Well, I am sure you can imagine the results. The wire and fixtures just melted and nearly caught her house on fire, so you can understand why I like to protect my runs now. 1. It keeps the homeowner from overloading my system and melting wire and fixtures. The fuse will be sacrificed before my wire or lights melt away. 2. It makes a problem with a circuit easier to diagnose. If there are 3 runs on 1 circuit, and only one goes out, I don't have to look at all three. 3. It is just one more thing that seperates me from my local competition in giving the customer an added degree of safety. It is inexpensive but very effective.

Tim. I recently read a listing or rating that stated the 25A mag. breakers that many use as secondary protection in LV transformers must automatically switch to off after 60 minutes in an overload situation. I was blown away by this... ( I will go hunt for it and post it here). 60 Mins is far too long to operate in an overload state.

Fuses may seem backward and old school but they are certainly faster to 'blow' and protect a system from an overload state. The Buss S-25 fustat that is inside most NS Powercenters offers superior overload protection IMHO.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 07:30 PM
Tim here is the reference:

The standards for Low Voltage Landscape Lighting Systems, UL1838, and
Low Voltage Lighting Systems, UL 2108, provide for the low voltage output
circuit of the luminaire power supply to be rated up to and including 25
amperes. Note that the standards specify “rated” rather than “limited to”. A
hypothetical power supply that is somehow designed to deenergize the output
circuit when the output current exceeds 25 amperes for any (hence arbitrarily
small) amount of time would need an output circuit rated much lower than 25
amperes to prevent tripping of the overcurrent protection device when operated
at full rated load until temperature stabilization.
To address the risks of fire resulting from excess output current, UL 1838 and
UL 2108 require the power supply to deenergize the output circuit within one
hour when the circuit is loaded at 135 percent of 25 amperes. This load and 1
hour period match the load and one hour period of one of the tests required for
a 25 ampere circuit breaker in the standard for Molded Case Circuit breakers,
UL 489. It is proposed that 411.2 be revised to require that output circuits
be rated not more than 25 amperes (rather than an undefined “limited to”),
with the awareness that requiring the low voltage luminaire power supply
or the entire lighting system to be listed using the above specified standards
inherently requires the power supply to limit the output current as defined in
the standards.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13

I have attached the entire document.

Regards.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 07:31 PM
Fuses are great if you don't mind doing callbacks for blown fuses that you won't get paid for.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 07:33 PM
Tim. I recently read a listing or rating that stated the 25A mag. breakers that many use as secondary protection in LV transformers must automatically switch to off after 60 minutes in an overload situation. I was blown away by this... ( I will go hunt for it and post it here). 60 Mins is far too long to operate in an overload state.

Fuses may seem backward and old school but they are certainly faster to 'blow' and protect a system from an overload state. The Buss S-25 fustat that is inside most NS Powercenters offers superior overload protection IMHO.

Does your Qtrans use green fuses too?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 07:34 PM
Pete... yes fuses are really really effective. Especially the Buss Fustat which can diagnose if you have a short or an overload based on how it 'blows'.

It is pretty ease to leave a spare or two behind inside the transformer... and as for not getting paid for them ... ??? Just build the cost of the spares into your system.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 07:39 PM
Does your Qtrans use green fuses too?

No, the Qset and Qhex transformers by Qtran make use of a secondary breaker. It is not the typical toggle type that MDL and others use, it is a push button style.

I don't have the technical details of it. Contact Qtran directly.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 07:49 PM
No, the Qset and Qhex transformers by Qtran make use of a secondary breaker. It is not the typical toggle type that MDL and others use, it is a push button style.

I don't have the technical details of it. Contact Qtran directly.

that would be called a thermal breaker . Not safe

Landrus2
02-10-2008, 07:52 PM
no pictures.:drinkup:

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 08:00 PM
that would be called a thermal breaker . Not safe

I would not assume that Pete. Everything else about these units are cutting edge and very well engineered... Why dont you do some homework and contact Qtran directly and report back to us.

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 08:08 PM
I would not assume that Pete. Everything else about these units are cutting edge and very well engineered... Why dont you do some homework and contact Qtran directly and report back to us.

Cause I have no interest in products that may appeal to 2% of my potential customer base.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 08:19 PM
Ahhh see there is the difference.... you are working for the wrong clients! Rather then worry about appealing to 2% of your current customer base, make the shift and work for the top 2% of the entire market.

Somebody has to be the market leader
Somebody has to offer the finest in the market
Somebody has to cater to the top end

Why not you?

pete scalia
02-10-2008, 08:24 PM
Ahhh see there is the difference.... you are working for the wrong clients! Rather then worry about appealing to 2% of your current customer base, make the shift and work for the top 2% of the entire market.

Somebody has to be the market leader
Somebody has to offer the finest in the market
Somebody has to cater to the top end

Why not you?

Thanks James that's some great advice coming from a guy who won't divulge his gross sales.

Pro-Scapes
02-10-2008, 08:24 PM
No way! wow!! A bypass controller switch?!! You mean just like the control override switch that is on every Nighscaping Powercenter for the past 10 years? Sure is a handy feature isnt it?
:laugh:

Also, compare the internal working space of this new transformer with a NS Powercenter... I think you will find that the NS Powercenter has more space (almost double from what I can tell) and has bigger terminal blocks (lugs).
:)

Of course the NS Powercenter also has a very versatile and easily customized internal modular control bay, with the largest selection of control modules on the market. You can even install UPB switches and controllers inside by using a blank modular control bay plate.
:)

Those internal LEDs are pretty trick mind you... and I do like a door on hinges.

Well just back from a wonderful weekend in Louisiana (thanks Burt) and I tmrw I will side by side take photos of the nightscaping unit and the gambino unit so you can see the difference. Yes I have a nightscaping unit here. Its inoperatable. The fusestate sockets are rusted out even tho it was mounted under an eave with no other visable signs of water unside the unit.There also was no irrigation in the area.

I do agree that the NS unit is much more user friendly as far as secondary wiring. The Late Great Bill Locklin was really ahead of his time with the unit, but the toggle switches and the do re mi high low bulb saver switches are not user friendly at all. The Gambino trans is a compilation of the best ideas in the industry with some sugar on top. I see the argument for secondary fusing and I will be using secondary fusing in all locations where fixtures are attached to the dwelling

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-10-2008, 08:28 PM
Hi Billy... welcome back.

I wanted to find out just how to get one of those transformers you are promoting. I would like to have one here for testing and assessment. Is this something we can contact the manufacturer for or do they all come from Mike G. direct?

Thanks.

Pro-Scapes
02-10-2008, 08:47 PM
Hi Billy... welcome back.

I wanted to find out just how to get one of those transformers you are promoting. I would like to have one here for testing and assessment. Is this something we can contact the manufacturer for or do they all come from Mike G. direct?

Thanks.

This trans is made exclusivly to his specs. He has spent a very large sum of money in developing this unit.

KindGardeners
02-21-2008, 01:44 PM
You all have to be in the presence of Mike Gambinos new transformer in which he developed because no other manufacturer would do it for him. I have seen it and it is the bomb. Thats all Ill say about it now. If You are curious and want the latest greatest transformer, Get in touch with Mike G. Anyone who has been in the presence of the transformer i am talking about please tell us what You think.
www.Gambinolighting.com

Sean C.

Sean - so far, I'm impressed only by the poor response I've gotten to my repeated inquiries:

After a week, Mike Gambino has not supplied any information about the transformer, other than the fact that he has no distributors.

Here's my correspondence... you make your own judgements.

Would it take a week to get an simple answer from FXL or UNIQUE ??



(sent this AM)
Hi Mike,

I’m disappointed it’s taking such effort & time to simply “find out” about your product. In reply to the email I first sent a week ago, I expected to receive “normal” information that a landscape contractor would want:
Product information
Pricing, including delivery costs
Anything else a normal business might supply when asked about their products.

Just my $.02.
Will Johnson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: res1tc9l [mailto:thekindgardeners@verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 8:52 PM
To: 'Michael Gambino'
Subject: RE: Transformer?

Please send information about your transformers, shipping information & costs, and transformer costs.

I typically install 2-3 transformers monthly, 20% 900w. & the rest evenly split between 300 & 600 w.
Currently using Vista multi tap, or FXL transformers.
Thanks,
Will Johnson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Gambino [mailto:mike@Gambinolighting.com]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 6:26 PM
To: 'res1tc9l'
Subject: RE: Transformer?
I sell them direct, no distributors

Michael Gambino
Gambino Landscape Lighting inc.
High Performance Landscape Lighting
Systems Designed and Built to Last
www.GAMBINOLIGHTING.com
mike@Gambinolighting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: res1tc9l [mailto:thekindgardeners@verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 6:16 AM
To: 'Michael Gambino'
Subject: RE: Transformer?

Who distributes them in San Diego, CA?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Gambino [mailto:mike@Gambinolighting.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:22 PM
To: 'res1tc9l'
Subject: RE: Transformer?
Hi Will,

Thanks for your inquiry, What info would you like to know about it.

Michael Gambino
Gambino Landscape Lighting inc.
High Performance Landscape Lighting
Systems Designed and Built to Last
www.GAMBINOLIGHTING.com
mike@Gambinolighting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: res1tc9l [mailto:thekindgardeners@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:43 PM
To: mike@gambinolighting.com
Subject: Transformer?

Hi-
I ran across something about “gambino’s new transformers”.
Info? I’m a landscape contractor in San Diego, CA.
Thanks!
Will Johnson

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-21-2008, 02:28 PM
Will, what ever you do, don't try contacting the Manufacturer directly (no matter how innocently or openly you try) ... That will only release a complete Sh-t storm of grief that will rain upon you from the "designer" of the unit.

Apparently he is only allowing a "very select few" contractors to have access to this transformer. I would suspect you are not one of the chosen. I know I am not. :sleeping:

Pro-Scapes
02-21-2008, 04:52 PM
Will, I get excellent responce time. I do know Mike does not wish to sell to anyone in his area. I know San diego is a bit south more but its still southern cali. I know he has also been backed up as well.

Unless your a dedicated lighting design and build firm I am not sure you will appreciate all the features of this unit but that is a question only you can answer.

pete scalia
02-21-2008, 11:13 PM
I've been holding this issue of the New York Daily news for almost 2 weeks waiting for the right opportunity to exploit it. Seems like the time is right now.
I guess the transformer business is over. Why didn't you tell me this guy's butt was so big?

Chris J
02-21-2008, 11:19 PM
Ha! you are killing me! I think I just pissed myself.

KindGardeners
02-21-2008, 11:21 PM
NOW I know why he took so long to get back to me! LOL!!!

James - I heard from Mike today, i'm satisfied with his response to me - at this point it seems early in his cycle for smaller San Diego-area landscape contractors to try his wares.

In his defense, at this point he seems to be focusing more on larger installers (who need many more transformers monthly than I do), and as a small business owner, I understand not being able to get everything done precisely when I'd like to go it!

Fwiw, during the past month, I moved my business from Huntington Beach to San Diego, and changed the company name from "The Kind Gardeners" to SECO Landscape, so I understand things crazy & upside down.


Will, what ever you do, don't try contacting the Manufacturer directly (no matter how innocently or openly you try) ...

BTW, I'd have no reason to "go behind" anyone, either innocently or openly.
Pretty much all the manufacturers I buy from only use distributors (Horizon, Deere, Ewing, Hydroscape) and all of them will be at the CLCA show next week. Let's all ask FX about their new underwater fixture, lol.


Pro-Scapes - I typically install 12-25 lights in a front or rear yard, once or twice a month, the largest recent install was over 75 FXL's, controlled by a Jandy. I'm a C-27 (landscape) contractor, not an electrician. On installs, I use Unique's hub/spoke method, Casts's voltage-tuning the runs & soldering hubs, and provide detailed as-builts ('cuz the next guy's likely not got a clue). So while I like to think I'm above-average (for a landscape contractor)... higher-quality lights are something I do, not the only thing.

Chris J
02-21-2008, 11:32 PM
Good for you in getting a response Kind G. And Kudos for not making any harsh remarks. The tranny in question was not intended to be distributed to the general public, as you now know, but maybe as you grow your business you will have access to it, who knows? Good luck to you, and keep it light!

pete scalia
02-21-2008, 11:46 PM
Will, what ever you do, don't try contacting the Manufacturer directly (no matter how innocently or openly you try) ... That will only release a complete Sh-t storm of grief that will rain upon you from the "designer" of the unit.

Apparently he is only allowing a "very select few" contractors to have access to this transformer. I would suspect you are not one of the chosen. I know I am not. :sleeping:

Who is the moron who "innocently and openly" contacted this guys manufacturer?

Isn't this similar to Joey's thread earlier about all of the knockoffs out there.

What kind of a piece of filth would make such an attempt? I would think a cretin like this would be lower on the food chain than a Tit mouse.

Lite4
02-22-2008, 12:26 AM
In Mikes defense, He is not a mass manufacturer and distributor like say Unique or Vista, who have teams of people to mass diseminate product throughout the country. Mike is a one man artist and lighting installer like myself. If he took a while to get back to you, it is simply because of the high demands on his time. He is creating the products mainly for himself and his customers. I feel fortunate to be able to have access to his transformer and I plan to use a lot of them this year. It is the unit I have been waiting for the industry giants to produce, but never have. Thanks Mike G. for continuing to push the curve out there a little more.

Pro-Scapes
02-22-2008, 08:48 AM
Pro-Scapes - I typically install 12-25 lights in a front or rear yard, once or twice a month, the largest recent install was over 75 FXL's, controlled by a Jandy. I'm a C-27 (landscape) contractor, not an electrician. On installs, I use Unique's hub/spoke method, Casts's voltage-tuning the runs & soldering hubs, and provide detailed as-builts ('cuz the next guy's likely not got a clue). So while I like to think I'm above-average (for a landscape contractor)... higher-quality lights are something I do, not the only thing.

I know where your coming from. I too started as a landscape contractor. I eliminated landscape installs and our primary focus is lighting. We still do some plantings but only on lighting installs now. I found a great high end landscape firm to work with recently and he will be handeling all the landscape and install work for that and I will be handeling all of his lighting.

Eden Lights
02-22-2008, 08:55 AM
.5 Volt Increments is big, Room for a standard Decor style switch of choice is excellent, am I missing anything else?? The problem I see is the one tap per voltage on a 900? How are you going to get all those 10's in there on one tap if needed? What would be a max per tap maybe 4 10's? We average about 7-9 homeruns on a 900.

Pro-Scapes
02-22-2008, 09:16 AM
Eddie, As of now there is no 900w box. I too use alot of larger transformers altho I could definatly get used to installing more transformers of smaller sizes. I often find when I use a 900 or 1200w unit I am cursing up and down about too many wires inside there.

Your also missing the trans is dimmable... There are 2 taps per common. Chances are with the .5 incriments you wont be forced to stuff too many wires in a single tap but the taps are rather large.
I think I posted a pic with a bunch of 10's and 8ga runs in the layout thread.

I have 4 comming for the next project

irrig8r
02-22-2008, 10:16 AM
Somehow the ideas that (1) a certain number of TFs need to be ordered to reach a threshold that these be manufactured, and then (2) limiting access to a select few contractors seem to be at cross purposes...no?

Pro-Scapes
02-22-2008, 10:25 AM
no... Since Mike nor I have any desire to be a manufacture or a distributor and wish to continue being designers and contractors it is very simple.

Get a small group of guys who use quite a few units and keep things small and simple. Would it not be easier to sell 100 transformers to a single user than sell 2 transformers to 50 users ? Im not saying 1 has to use 100 transformers a year to appreciate this unit.

Its all about simplicity and keeping it in the hands of guys who really love and have a passion for doing things the very best they can.

irrig8r
02-22-2008, 11:16 AM
I've been holding this issue of the New York Daily news for almost 2 weeks waiting for the right opportunity to exploit it. Seems like the time is right now.
I guess the transformer business is over. Why didn't you tell me this guy's butt was so big?


NO TRANSFORMER FOR YOU !!! *











* Please excuse the Seinfeld reference.

Lite4
02-22-2008, 02:35 PM
Gregg, do you watch seinfeld. That last post had a soup Nazi feel about it.

pete scalia
02-22-2008, 07:23 PM
Somehow the ideas that (1) a certain number of TFs need to be ordered to reach a threshold that these be manufactured, and then (2) limiting access to a select few contractors seem to be at cross purposes...no?

I guess he'd rather bury them in his backyard then sell them. Weird marketing scheme if you ask me. Like the kid who wouldn't share his toys in the sandbox. Hey guys I found the holy grail of transformers . OK we wanna buy- No, Go twist in the wind!

I bet if he had a Ferrari or a Lambo he wouldn't even let his best friend test drive it once.

Probably comes from a childhood home with plastic slip covers on the furniture and those velvet ropes like they have at the movie theaters to keep you out of the living room. No shoes on the carpet.:nono:

Give me a break!
What a kook!

irrig8r
02-22-2008, 09:32 PM
Probably comes from a childhood home with plastic slip covers on the furniture and those velvet ropes like they have at the movie theaters to keep you out of the living room. No shoes on the carpet.:nono:



I remember those! We had some relatives that had all their furniture hermetically sealed in clear plastic and plastic runners on the white carpets... and we still had to take out shoes off. Those cousins of ours were no fun at all...

pete scalia
02-22-2008, 10:11 PM
I remember those! We had some relatives that had all their furniture hermetically sealed in clear plastic and plastic runners on the white carpets... and we still had to take out shoes off. Those cousins of ours were no fun at all...

That's those old school Italians. Look but don't touch. Even if the things worth $40 they act like it's worth a million to them.