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wiseguyslawn
02-10-2008, 10:20 PM
Ive almost completed my 2008 program and looking for some last suggestions.

1. early spring- granular dimension/fert combo

2. early june- liquid three way/ Either a tank mix with green flo or a granula app of fert. Not sure which way will be most cost effective. Was doing some homework on rates and it seems I can cover more area with the granular for the dollar.

3. mid june- same as #2

4. mid to late august- Merit, not sure if it should be liquid or granular.

5. Late Sept. early oct.- Granular winterizer.

If anyone has any suggestions or advice this would be great. My first year as I have said in the past with liquid applications, and I'm trying to figure out how to get the most for my money, while producing a quality product. Location is Northern ohio. Insured and licensed fo 2 years. Associates in Turfgass. Thanx again

Victor
02-10-2008, 10:44 PM
I'll start with your winterizer app, which is the most important app of the year and work backwards.

Here in Ohio, you'd be really jumping the gun if you planned on applying your winterizer app in September, or early October. Anytime in October would be too early around here anymore. We had 90+ degree temperatures last October here.

Since I don't know you, or your knowledge level, I'm going to ask you. Do you know what you're trying to accomplish with your winterizer application Wiseguy?

If you do, tell me what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't, there's no crime in that. We'll work on that.

LawnTamer
02-10-2008, 11:46 PM
Why 2 apps in June? Seems a little off, as does the Merit app in August, here Merit goes on late spring.

Victor
02-10-2008, 11:50 PM
Why 2 apps in June? Seems a little off, as does the Merit app in August, here Merit goes on late spring.

The Merit should go down in late Spring here too Tamer.

Whitey4
02-11-2008, 12:12 AM
Victor, is that as a grub control? I just keep hearing from reputable sources that spring grub control just isn't a good idea. From my co-op, to the most experienced guys in my association, they are all very down on it.

The position they take is that the app rate has to be pretty freakin high to kill overwintered grubs, and it still won't kill more than 75% even at high rates. Then, those that do lay eggs impart some pesticide resistance to the newly hatched grubs in late August.

The experts around here are big proponents of hitting the immature (and easier to kill) larvae right after they hatch instead. Less pesticide, better long term control. This makes sense to me, but I am pretty light on the experience side of it. The fact that Merit got restricted here because of contamination to the aquafers makes my area even more sensitive to over or mistimed apps.

So, I'm not saying who is right.... could be that the local experts are right for my area, and other approaches work better elsewhere. For now, I plan on proposing only a late summer grub control app to my customers. I tend to think a once a year late summer app could be more effective in long term control, falling in line with the local experts around here. Having said that, I've never seen a study to prove or disprove any of this. It's all opinion. Can anyone reference a study on this?

LawnTamer
02-11-2008, 12:22 AM
Here we have 3 lawn eating insects we are going after with a merit app. White grub, sod webworm and billbugs. By applying in late spring we stand a good chance of limiting populations of all 3 to acceptable thresholds. I don't apply it everywhere, only to lawns that have had problems, or where I am expecting large populations. In those situations, it has been effective.

redbuckcavs
02-11-2008, 07:52 AM
I know the Merit needs to be applied alot sooner than Aug. (prevenative treatment) However, I never realized Merit would control Billbugs. If that is the case I may apply it early May to control the ADULT Billbugs before they insert their eggs? or are you saying that Merit will only control Billbug Larvae

My plan of attack was to use Allectus to control adult Billbug and have enough residual to control gruds later in the summer.

wiseguyslawn
02-11-2008, 08:35 AM
Sorry for the confusion, there will not be two apps in june but in mid july instead. I think you are right about the winterizer as well since it needs to be applied after growth has stopped for a dormant feed and good spring green up. Should I space apps father apart or add another. With the grub control We always put merit down in our rough and lawn areas at the 2 golf courses in mid august and had great results. Thanx for everyone's ideas

Whitey4
02-11-2008, 10:53 AM
I know the Merit needs to be applied alot sooner than Aug. (prevenative treatment) However, I never realized Merit would control Billbugs. If that is the case I may apply it early May to control the ADULT Billbugs before they insert their eggs? or are you saying that Merit will only control Billbug Larvae

My plan of attack was to use Allectus to control adult Billbug and have enough residual to control gruds later in the summer.

That depends on the target. The point I was making here was that for the reasons stated (and didn't mention out local sandy loam and heavy spring rains, leaching to fast is a problem too), is that preventative apps are a bad idea, according to the experts for my region. A late August app is meant to kill newly hatched larvae, which are much easier to kill than the overwintered grubs are in the spring. A one time curative app.

Merit will control billbug larvae, so the small grub will still eat it's way down through the stem, and hopefully never get to the root zone.

Sod webworm is not as big a problem here as it is in the south. In my admittedly limited experience, I have yet to see a lawn that had a sod webworm population above the recommended treatment threshold.

Lawn Tamer, I definitely agree with you, if a porblem has existed, then a spring treatment makes sense, especially for the billbugs and sod webworm. It's the use of the word "preventative" I don't like. That makes it sound like it's as automatic as a spring crabgrass app. Personally, I won't do a spring white grub app unless I've got a pretty high count, say over 7 or 8 in a sq foot. I'd rather suffer through the summer and know that an August app is going to have better control with larvae that aren't pesticide tolerant.

Even the companies that use imidacloprid as a grub control recommend applications on newly hatched larvae, not on the over wintered grubs in the spring. That only holds true if the target is white grubs... for quite a few other pests, a spring app is the correct and recommended timing. In that case, I would probably use Merit in the spring and Dylox in August.

Midstate Lawncare
02-11-2008, 10:59 AM
Ive almost completed my 2008 program and looking for some last suggestions.

If anyone has any suggestions or advice this would be great. My first year as I have said in the past with liquid applications, and I'm trying to figure out how to get the most for my money, while producing a quality product. Location is Northern ohio. Insured and licensed fo 2 years. Associates in Turfgass. Thanx again

1. early spring- granular dimension/fert combo

2. early june- liquid three way/ Either a tank mix with green flo or a granula app of fert. Not sure which way will be most cost effective. Was doing some homework on rates and it seems I can cover more area with the granular for the dollar.

3. mid june- same as #2

4. mid to late august- Merit, not sure if it should be liquid or granular.

5. Late Sept. early oct.- Granular winterizer.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ________________________

This is my program, I live in west central Illinois.... weeds come up here in mid to late March, Redbuds flower in late march to early april.

Round 1 March 1st to April 15th 18-3-5granular pre-m, maybe weed control spot sprayed

Round 2 April 1st to May 15th 24-0-11 25% "scu" weed control spot spray

Round 3 june 1st to July 15th 18-3-5 merit/mach2 grub control weed control spot spray

Round 4 July 15th to September 1st 24-0-11 just slow release granular fertilizer 50%"scu"

Round 5 September 1st to October 15th 24-5-11 well balanced fertilizer to promote healing from summer stress not slow release and weed control spot spray

Round 6 October 15th to December 1st totally up to you.... some people use 46-0-0 for a couple more mowings, some people use 19-19-19 others use 6-24-24 winterizer granular fertilizer

I know liquid applications well, and I don't like them. You "will" have off target damage, and your lawns will begin to dwindle after a couple of seasons due to lack of micronutrients. Your lawn needs the micronutrients that are in the granular fertilizers(fe, mg, ma,) .... Liquid fertilizers that carry micronutrients are very expensive, and dont have very long "tank life".... so if it rains for 2 days you are out of luck.

RigglePLC
02-11-2008, 11:36 AM
From my point of view--you need additional blanket weed control in the fall. You kill winter annuals and many weeds like dandelion that blow in during the summer and sprout as small plants in the fall. Kill dandelions in the fall--they will not be a problem in the spring.

I get good results with liquid fertilizer--no problem. Granted, dry fertilizer is quicker and easier to apply, less chance of fertilizer burn, and will usually have slow release SCU, and thus last longer.

Victor
02-11-2008, 02:29 PM
Victor, is that as a grub control? I just keep hearing from reputable sources that spring grub control just isn't a good idea. From my co-op, to the most experienced guys in my association, they are all very down on it.

The position they take is that the app rate has to be pretty freakin high to kill overwintered grubs, and it still won't kill more than 75% even at high rates. Then, those that do lay eggs impart some pesticide resistance to the newly hatched grubs in late August.

The experts around here are big proponents of hitting the immature (and easier to kill) larvae right after they hatch instead. Less pesticide, better long term control. This makes sense to me, but I am pretty light on the experience side of it. The fact that Merit got restricted here because of contamination to the aquafers makes my area even more sensitive to over or mistimed apps.

So, I'm not saying who is right.... could be that the local experts are right for my area, and other approaches work better elsewhere. For now, I plan on proposing only a late summer grub control app to my customers. I tend to think a once a year late summer app could be more effective in long term control, falling in line with the local experts around here. Having said that, I've never seen a study to prove or disprove any of this. It's all opinion. Can anyone reference a study on this?

That's right Whitey. Most of the guys around here put out grub control in June. I always apply a combo product that not only prevents grubs, but surface-feeding insects as well. I don't start treating for insects until June though.