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bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 01:27 PM
For anyone who is interested in how much money I dumped into my T190 in service and some of the reason I started "dis-liking" my T190 read the following, these were the bigger records that I penciled down before handing them over to Finning:

July 18-2003, hour meter reads 1.2 hrs, took delivery of unit, inspected, PDI'ed, tested and washed and customer picked up. N/C

July 22, service call to repair fuse(s) Customer reported loss of all interior electrical functions. R & R fuses(s) with 30 amps. Hour meter 8.2 hrs. N/C

No exact dates from here on in, just month and years:
August 2003, service call to tighten main drive belt-excessive slippage. Hour meter 25.5. N/C

August 2003 (same week) I hauled it in for repair-engine shut down due to over heating -cause- main radiator plugged with debris, blown out, coolant levels checked and tested, engine head checked, no leaks. Hour meter 50.1 hrs-->that was due to both the A/C and oil cooler rads being partially plugged and it's a real PITA to remove them, I didn't realize that the water rad was 90% blocked.

I made 2 track adjustments in 2 weeks, first one was expected, not the second one, must have been a very harsh break in.

At 50 hours, the first oil change was done, they call it the "break in" oil change.

September 2003, made adjustment to steering levers, one side pulled harder. Fixed and tightened, charged to customer.

January 2004, service call to find oil leak in machine, cause-blown O-ring in valve bank. R &R topped of oil reservoir with 4 liters and friction buster additive. Charged to customer.

March 2004, replaced aux. slider switch, problem, no proportional functions. R & R, tested and checked, labour was paid by customer and parts are warranty.

June 2004, adjusted left steering handle, too loose. Charged to customer.

July 2004 service call to replace bolts for steering flex plate, problem-steering functions lost and machine had to be stalled to shut off. R & R and tested. Charged to customer.

One year warranty on machine expires, 2 years on drive train left.

September 2004, tighten and replace main tilt tach pivot pins, problem-excessive movement in quick attach, found broken bushing on right side. R & R and charged to customer.

November 2004, service call to repair oil leak, problem-aux. line rubbing on chassis -cause- excessive vibrations while hammering with customer's attachment (that was debatable) new hose, fittings and oil. R & R and charged to customer.

May 2005, welded lower loader arm -problem- large crack around tapered pin bushing, crack is 60% through loader arm. Re-weld, clean out. and re-weld loader arm with 1/4" thick plates both sides. Charged to customer ($918.00)

August 2005, bearing failure on right side drive motor, R & R and pull oil samples on both bearings for customer. N/C, Warrantied with 1 day left on registration!!!

September 2005, replaced both tracks with customer supplied OEM tracks, pulled oil samples from both drives. Charged to customer.

December 2005, service call to repair leaking hose -cause- unknown. replaced tube line from loader valve. charged to customer.

February 2006, service call to repair oil leak. -cause- broken aux. line, and alternator belt also broken due to hose rupture. Cannot replace hose, new hose made up, OEM tube line on order. Topped off oil and charged to..........me!!!! (6 hours of labour + overtime and service call=$1800)

February 2006, replaced hose with OEM tube line and regular maintenance oil change. Charged to customer.

March 2006, second loader arm cracked, left side, R & R, charged to customer (surprise, surprise, another $900)

September 2006, pull oil sample from drive motors and test at Finning. Charged to customer.

October 2006, service call to repair oil leak. -problem- loss of oil after aux. is engaged. Problem due to hose rubbing on chassis. R & R and charged to customer.

Big time span now due to the other end of my work picking up, lots of smaller jobs.

May 2007, re-adjust steering levers. R & R. Charged to customer.

June 2007, readjust steering levers, not done correctly. N/C/

July 2007 replace seals on Power BobTach cylinder. Charged to customer.

August 2007 replace quick attach wedges and pins. Charged to customer.

December 2007, hour meter read 1787 hrs. handed over to Finning.


**These were only the big ones involving oil leaks or mechanical failures, there were regular service intervals every 250 hours for the engine and 500 hours for the hydraulic oil, but with all the hose failures I had and blown O-rings, that saved me some money down the road, but at least 45 gallons of Bobcat hydraulic oil was replaced between 2006 and 2004.

Dirt Digger2
02-11-2008, 01:59 PM
hahahahah and here i always thought you had no reason to bad mouth bobcat...that machine really shafted you...good thing you own one of the "big three" now.

P.Services
02-11-2008, 02:32 PM
not to be a jerk, but i think most of that stuff i would have fixed myself. to pay a service tech to come out and replace a hydro line or adjust steering levers is crazy.

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 02:44 PM
not to be a jerk, but i think most of that stuff i would have fixed myself. to pay a service tech to come out and replace a hydro line or adjust steering levers is crazy.

Have you ever seen inside of a Bobcat chassis at all? The tools those grease monkeys used have been altered to reach around other objects. Cat is one of the skids that can be fixed in your driveway with regular "unaltered" tools.

Behold, the Bobcat Jungle:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures229.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures227.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures225.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures223.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures217.jpg

The day I took these pics, there was a fine mist of oil spraying out of somewhere, only God only knows where! :cry:

I left out smaller items like multiple adjustments to the switches that turn the reverse alarm on, those I eventually took a hammer to, what a PITA they are and I busted a bucket pin in the loader in August 2007.

Landrus2
02-11-2008, 03:00 PM
I bet if you buy another bobcat. its going to be a lot better this time.
You must have gotten a lemon from bobcat That time.:drinkup:

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 03:06 PM
I'm not going back to Bobcat. Ever. What really pisses me off is that even the dealer told me the 2003 models were better than the 2001's, that was bullsh*t. I wouldn't have any problems like the 2001's had and they got all the bugs worked out. Bullsh*t. I was also promised that the new 2007 models have solid steel loader arms right from the cross members down to the main tilt tach pins. Bullsh*t.

And for $62,000 CAN after taxes, this would be "one of the best machines you'll ever own and you never want anything else but a Bobcat".







Bullsh*t!

wanabe
02-11-2008, 03:07 PM
Man, I shure hope bobcat gave you a good tube of lube after buying that pos! I can not believe they are still in business, as they have the same reputation arround here. I looked at a T-300 with 800 hours one time, and just about bought it until the owner told me that he just had the drive motors replaced. Motors at 800 hrs? That is crazy. Another friend has a T-300 and bought it through bobcat, and they took care of the loan. After a few months, he quit making payments, due to the fact that bobcat had it in the shop for over 2 months! He had to threaten to sue them to get them to quit calling him. Turns out his machine had electrical issues, and it took 2 guys from bobcat to come to his dealer and fix it. Total junk!

YellowDogSVC
02-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Ron,

I have been there with an 863 C series way back when. I would be cursing and bitter myself if I had those same problems. I think you did have a lemon. My Gosh, those labor charges seem high. Thought you were working with Vermeer for a minute! On a service call for a warrantied part, you have to pay all the labor? Our Bobcat dealer, during warranty, will pay for the service call, the labor, and the parts that are under warranty are covered. I have had them come all the way out for a missing bolt. One reason I haven't left Bobcat yet. Incredible service from our local dealer (Quality Equipment Company). Unfortunately, they can't do anything about my s300's lack of power and leaky cab. That's the engineer's fault! :) Anyway, glad you got into a machine without so many headaches. Hopefully your old T190 will become an artificial reef or something. :)

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 03:41 PM
The biggest cause of drive motor failure is the packing of mud and foreign objects like rope and wires getting wrapped around the motor, but the mud is the big blamer, Cat, Deere and Komatsu shouldn't have any big issues with that as their motors are not nearly as "cased in" as Bobcat, Case, New Holland and Takeuchi.

$7000 (rounded up) is what it cost me in all the servicing and break downs, and an additional $3800 for the tracks that were replaced in Sept 2005 for a whopper of $10,800.

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 03:47 PM
Ron,

I have been there with an 863 C series way back when. I would be cursing and bitter myself if I had those same problems. I think you did have a lemon. My Gosh, those labor charges seem high. Thought you were working with Vermeer for a minute! On a service call for a warrantied part, you have to pay all the labor? Our Bobcat dealer, during warranty, will pay for the service call, the labor, and the parts that are under warranty are covered. I have had them come all the way out for a missing bolt. One reason I haven't left Bobcat yet. Incredible service from our local dealer (Quality Equipment Company). Unfortunately, they can't do anything about my s300's lack of power and leaky cab. That's the engineer's fault! :) Anyway, glad you got into a machine without so many headaches. Hopefully your old T190 will become an artificial reef or something. :)


That one warrantied part was replaced, but I paid the labour seeing as how it was my fault it was damaged, I got some water into it when hosing out the cab with a pressure washer, Bobcat says their aux. controls are supposed to be water tight, but I guess mine wasn't, so I went 50/50 with them, only 2 hours of labour, that's all.
As for the lemon remarks, my old 753 was the exact same way, same type of oil leaks with 2 extra busted bucket pins and more expenses in rubber tires. That was why I "wanted" to stay with Bobcat when the dealer assured me this one would be problematic.

qps
02-11-2008, 04:32 PM
For what it's worth my 05 257B had over 10K worth of warranty repairs with 137 hrs on it....

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 04:34 PM
For what?????

mrsops
02-11-2008, 05:47 PM
ron you had a lemon mad no doubt about it. my t190 has 1320 hrs and the only thing i had to replace was one sprocket that was under warranty. i never had any type of problems with my t190

qps
02-11-2008, 06:08 PM
For what?????

well, let's see, drive motor, couple of pilot controls, pulled the motor to install some type of oil pickup tube, various trips to the shop because the POS wouldn't turn in its own tracks....my 297C has already had a recall on all the boogie wheels and drive wheels..

mrsops
02-11-2008, 06:10 PM
qps are you happy with your cat? what year is it

iron peddler
02-11-2008, 06:20 PM
well, let's see, drive motor, couple of pilot controls, pulled the motor to install some type of oil pickup tube, various trips to the shop because the POS wouldn't turn in its own tracks....my 297C has already had a recall on all the boogie wheels and drive wheels..

you paid for all of those issues?

Fieldman12
02-11-2008, 06:58 PM
Man what a total P.O.S.. I would have got rid of it before it made it half way through that list. It does look allot worse to work on than my Deere. Bobcat tried hard to sell me a machine. They where telling me how easy they where to work on. I told them on a Deere you can get all around the machine no problem. They did not like that. I would say some of the stuff that you had issues with such as the craking of the booms was due to the hard environment you work in breaking concrete. Still they should not make the attachements and say the machine can do the job if it is going to break welds and metal. Just wondering but did you ever get a price on a replacement boom? Im sure it was more than $1,000.00 dollars but still I was just curious.

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 07:25 PM
There was no way in hell I was going to get a replacement loader boom for those cracks, the first one was bad, over 60% cracked around, but the second crack was only 30-40% cracked.

Cat has never had any issues with cracking there. It's one very thick chunk of steel.

qps
02-11-2008, 07:41 PM
qps are you happy with your cat? what year is it


The 297C is a head over heels better machine, plenty of power and control, the price I got for mine was comparable to others quoted...I did not have to pay for any repairs, except for a alt. and battery that failed in the middle of a snow storm....

ksss
02-11-2008, 08:04 PM
You could say it is a lemon but given the variety of problems that machine had I don't really believe that. Usually if it is a lemon you see the same problem reoccuring. That was a costly loader to own. Before you sing the praises of the 247 I would see how it holds up over time. I saw a 297C at Wheeler CAT in SLC last weekend that the undercarriage is completely hammered. My wife took pictures of it while I distracted the CAT guy. I don't know the story behind it but it obviously had been rode hard.

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 08:12 PM
The other thing I keep forgetting to mention is that almost all (70%) of the hydraulic problems were due to the jackhammer, the oil coming out of it is under a lot of pressure, somewhere in the neighbour hood of 4000psi, Cat's can handle that (they are rated for higher pressures) but Bobcats just seem to break down. I thought with having a bigger machine that problem might go away, but it seemed to have gotten worse.
Now with this Cat of mine, I had them plumb a return line straight to the reservoir manifold, so the pressure spikes don't stay in the system. The only weird thing is checking the oil level in the tank before switching over to the 2 way hydraulics.

iron peddler
02-11-2008, 08:16 PM
You could say it is a lemon but given the variety of problems that machine had I don't really believe that. Usually if it is a lemon you see the same problem reoccuring. That was a costly loader to own. Before you sing the praises of the 247 I would see how it holds up over time. I saw a 297C at Wheeler CAT in SLC last weekend that the undercarriage is completely hammered. My wife took pictures of it while I distracted the CAT guy. I don't know the story behind it but it obviously had been rode hard.

since you had him distracted, what was his story on that 297? or where the pics more important?:drinkup:

ksss
02-11-2008, 09:21 PM
since you had him distracted, what was his story on that 297? or where the pics more important?:drinkup:

I will down load them later tonight. I don't know the story behind it except someone should have lost their job.

ksss
02-11-2008, 09:29 PM
The other thing I keep forgetting to mention is that almost all (70%) of the hydraulic problems were due to the jackhammer, the oil coming out of it is under a lot of pressure, somewhere in the neighbour hood of 4000psi, Cat's can handle that (they are rated for higher pressures) but Bobcats just seem to break down. I thought with having a bigger machine that problem might go away, but it seemed to have gotten worse.
Now with this Cat of mine, I had them plumb a return line straight to the reservoir manifold, so the pressure spikes don't stay in the system. The only weird thing is checking the oil level in the tank before switching over to the 2 way hydraulics.

Maybe your breaker is a POS or your machines are, but I have been running hammers for 14 years on my machines and have yet to have any problem with pressure spikes. My breakers were a Bobcat/Stanley and my current one is an Okada both 750 pound breakers. I have never broke my loader arms or caused any hyd. damage and I have spent a lot of hours with a breaker breaking lava rock. I did have a hyd. filter vibrate lose once. Note to others they need to be more than hand tight if your running a breaker. That was the dealers fault as they had just serviced the unit. I have no need to run a drain line and honestly this is the first I have ever heard anybody having to do it.

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 09:37 PM
The hammer I run is a Daemo 725, it's a different design than Bobcat's, they use more than one Nitrogen chamber, so maybe that's the fault, but I anticipate less problems with the pressure spikes once I get the 3rd line reassembled to my specifications, seems Cat's fittings are not 1/2" ID, so I have to chase the line down and get bigger ones put in.

The biggest problems I had were any time I did major demo work, usually after 10 hours or more, a month or two goes by and then something breaks, usually a hose that rubbed on something while I was hammering.

P.Services
02-11-2008, 09:43 PM
hey man pick the place up a bit, old batteries and empty grease cartridges, home made tools and trash. looks like a little pig pen!! :laugh::laugh:

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 09:45 PM
It's been cleaned up since then, Dad found 42 other batteries laying around, he got $345 for all 46 batteries!

That was an older Fall '07 pic, all for insurance purposes.

Construct'O
02-11-2008, 09:52 PM
Hy Ron ! What do you use the piece of train rail with the handle welded on it for by the way ????:usflag:

P.Services
02-11-2008, 09:53 PM
thats what he uses when the bobcat's broke and he needs to break up some crete

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 09:57 PM
I think my Dad made that for crushing sheets of aluminum and gutters for scrap, he bends them over and drops the rail on it, compacting as he goes.

ksss
02-11-2008, 10:01 PM
I have never heard of that breaker before. It sounds Korean, which by itelf is not a bad thing. Komac is a decent breaker. I believe the problem is with your breaker and at least as it relates not the fault of the carrier. Rather than subject your new machine to it, maybe its time to send that one to auction and get a newer, more main stream breaker. I think it will make life easier on your new machine and forget the jury rigged third line.

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 10:04 PM
Yeah it's Korean, the Daemo Corp., I had that breaker on my 753 and blew mulitple fittings and 2 tilt tach pins, it was too small of a machine for it, so the T190 was better and that I didn't have to rev it to the moon to get optimal performance, it only needs 10-15 GPM @3000PSI to run.

Construct'O
02-11-2008, 10:05 PM
I think my Dad made that for crushing sheets of aluminum and gutters for scrap, he bends them over and drops the rail on it, compacting as he goes.

Good !!!!!!! For awhile i got to thinking maybe that was what you had to use as your hand tamper when you was growing up.

Boy wouldn't that have been nice:rolleyes::usflag:

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 10:08 PM
Good !!!!!!! For awhile i got to thinking maybe that was what you had to use as your hand tamper when you was growing up.

Boy wouldn't that have been nice:rolleyes::usflag:

No, that what God gave me a fat butt for, just roll around in the dirt and I do the compaction!!!!!!

YellowDogSVC
02-11-2008, 10:55 PM
hey man pick the place up a bit, old batteries and empty grease cartridges, home made tools and trash. looks like a little pig pen!! :laugh::laugh:

that all fell out of the bobcat..:usflag:

hosejockey2002
02-12-2008, 12:03 AM
Hey Ron, since you are always hatin' on Bobcat, maybe it's time to drop the "bob" in your login name, just change it to "Cat Ron"....

bobcat_ron
02-12-2008, 12:38 AM
Nah, I've always had the nick name of Bobcat Ron even as a kid, I was only 12 when I flipped my Dad's old 410 on it's nose, and 14 when I put a "smarties" dent in my head in the cab.

Shadetree Ltd
02-12-2008, 02:51 AM
I am glad that the Bobcat dealers poor customer relations led me to our CT322. When reading that list I see items within the first year that you paid for that I would expect to be covered under warranty. It also seems like they stuck it to you the day you paid $60+ k. My Deere with 300 hours, every option except high flow and an extra two years warranty was $45k. My salesman has been exceptional, he calls and asks if the machine is nearing service hours, if it is he picks it up from our site and drops it off n/c. Hopefully the Cat serves you better (hard to believe that it could possibly be any worse than the Bobcat). I have heard good things about the Finning sales guys. Rule NUMBER ONE when looking at a used Bobcat is to check for loader arm cracks. Glad too see it still applies TWENTY years later (I still have a 1989 743 around).