Renovating a lawn after tree removal...?

[bdoss123]

Last fall, the power company was nice enough to remove around 10 pine trees that were close to the house and in the middle of what could otherwise be a nice front yard.

Now there is a ton of pine needles/pine cones/and wood chips (from the stump grinding) in that area. I want to renovate the entire property this spring (and probably overseed again in the fall).

So my question is, what's my best bet for prepping this area so that I can spread compost, aerate, and then power-seed? Can this work be done by hand (with a few laborers) - or am I going to be better off getting someone to bring in machinery to clear/level the yard?

Thanks,

- BD

[Smallaxe]

It sounds like a lot of stuff is probably on the ground there and a few laborers will clean it up better than any thing else. Get rid of the fresh needles and grindings , but keep the older composted stuff worked into the soil.
Not sure why you aerate rather than till.

[happylandscaper]

We are working a similar job where a dozen pines were cut and stumps ground up. I removed the pine needles and wood chips and there where alot. I used a small loader and dumped them onto my dump trailer hauled them off. It took two loads. I am going to bring in a little topsoil to spread in the area to help fill some of the holes where the stumps were ground. I am having to wait on the topsoil here because it been so wet and cant get any now. I plan on liming the area working up the soil and seed, fertilize and straw.

[PHS]

Not sure why you aerate rather than till.

In the area around the trees tilling could be tough because even though the stumps are ground there is still a massive amount of wood (roots) just under the surface.

Just as a side note. Personally, I try to keep tilling operations to a minimum. It wrecks the natural soil structure that takes a fairly long time to develop on it's own. By adding lots of organic matter during tilling you can help build a better structure than what you had but in that case several soil scientists have told me to just do that once and then leave it alone. From there just continue with your proper soil management practices that are less invasive, let the soil structure redevelop and in the long run you'll have nice soil to grow in. Tilling is also very hard on tree and shrub roots that also grow in the same portion of the soil.

I'm not saying that I don't use a tiller, I just try to use it sparingly (new construction sites, etc).

bdoss, if there are some shrub beds around and you're close mulching season, the grindings make a very good mulch. Usually I talk them into letting me spread them out and then topdress with whatever more aesthetically pleasing mulch you normally use and that keeps from having to move them far. It's good for the plants anyway.

[Smallaxe]

I prefer tilling, for as the roots decay there will be a lot of settling over the next several years. A tiller digs up the smaller ones and allows you to clean them up. Works the organic matter deeper in to the soil profile along with whatever ammendments are desired.
You end up with a more consistent texture that is easily raked smooth with less settling in the long term. If the trees were young and grass was still growing under them that would be a different story IMHO.

A definate yes about the grindings. When a client wants them out of there they come right home to my garden. :)

[bdoss123]

I am relucatant to till due to reasons described above; although I do see the point about the roots settling.

And yes - another great plus to this project was all of the mulch and grindings I got to keep.

Regarding the stump removal - do I need to dig out those holes and refill with a decent soil mixture?

- BD

[lawnpro724]

We did a job almost identical to the one you described last spring. We had to remove 7 blue spruce trees and ground out the stumps, several trailer loads later we were finished. We cleaned up the entire area and brought in 4 tons of topsoil, added lime and starter fertilizer. We added 100lb of lime to the area since the PH was 3.5-4 then tilled in the lime and fertilizer,graded the lawn w/ slight slope for drainage, seeded the area and rolled the new lawn for good contact. A year later and they have a nice healthy green lawn.

[golfguy]

A powerbroom attachement for a stihl line trimmer is the most effective method of cleanup. Trust me on this one and buy one or rent one for this job.

The Lime is also a must and a great recommendations. Old stump holes tend to generate mushroom growth and the lime will also help aleveate this problem.

[Smallaxe]

Yes. We have always just raked out the chips and covered whatever was left of the stump with topsoil and seeded.

[bdoss123]

Thanks for all the input.

Can I ask your recommendations for the following:

How much lime per 1k Sq FT?
How much topsoil per 1k Sq FT (volume and/or desired depth)?
How much seed per 1k Sq FT?

The front yard is the area that had the trees removed from it, but I topdressing and reseeding the entire .5 Acre Lot (minus two buildings).

[Smallaxe]

Does it need lime? or Topsoil? It the soil that is there seems to be a good loam - just cover your seed with compost and let it be.
Remember that topsoil brought in, is more disturbed, (soil structure) than what you would do with a tiller to your own soil.

[bdoss123]

Sorry, compost not topsoil. There will be some topsoil/dirt brought in to level a couple of areas.

Also, is it preferred to aerate first, then compost, and finally slit-seed? Or compost then aerate?

Thanks,

- BD

[Smallaxe]

Aerate first, seed, and topdress last.

[OUTLANDER]

deffinately lime

[bdoss123]

Aerate first, seed, and topdress last.

I'll be using a slit-seeder, I was always under the impression that the compost should be down before seeding. Am I wrong on that?

[Smallaxe]

I'll be using a slit-seeder, I was always under the impression that the compost should be down before seeding. Am I wrong on that?

I don't know if there is a right or wrong, but compost is just about the perfect cover for new seed. IMHO. When the surface of the compost is dry the seed underneath is still good to go. Allows less frequent watering times.

Either way you do it be sure to get it firmed into the mix.

[golfguy]

I have never weighed the lime out. I add the lime to the area that was stump ground only. Nothing scientific just spread a handful over the soil where the stump used to be.

[bdoss123]

Sounds good. What about the amount of compost to add to the yard? If not a specific amount, about how deep should it be?

Thanks for all the responses.

- Brendan

[phasthound]

Sounds good. What about the amount of compost to add to the yard? If not a specific amount, about how deep should it be?

Thanks for all the responses.

- Brendan

A 1/4 to 1/2 inch compost top dress after seeding is ideal.

[capetrees]

The amount of compost added will depend on the amount of decent loam you already have. You should at least rough up the exixting loam so the new compost/loam mixture will adhere and allow for the new seeds to penetrate the existing soil. My order of doing it;

rough up the existing loam and apply the compost material to the top. Try to mix it together as best as you can and keep it maybe 2-3 inches if the existing loam is good. If it's not, compost alone will not make for a great lawn, too spongey. Mix loam(topsoil) and compost 1-1 and then apply about 4-5 inches thick.

Rake it out with a wide rake, 36-42 inches wide, in a north /south direction and then an east west type dirtection. This gets all the hills out that would be created if you raked in one direction only.

apply your starter fertilizer, pelletized lime and seed one over the other all at once. Fertilize according to whatever it is you're working with. If you had pines in the area before, the soil is probably sour so add lime at a rate of 80 lbs to 1000 su. ft. Pelletized lime won't burn your lawn but pulverized has in my experience.

Once everything is down, take a wide bamboo rake, (a leaf rake) and lightly drag it over the soil, turning the seeds, lime and fertilizer into the soil. This also will eliminate any bumps in the area also.

After ,to make good contact, lightly roll the area with a roller. Water is very important. In the north, we water new seed lawns three times a day, a good soaking in the morning, just enough so puddles don't appear, once in the mid day to cool it yet keep it damp and then lightly in the late afternoon to remain damp all night. The idea is to soften the outer shell of the seed to allow it to emerge. Keep in mind, the temperature plays a part in the ability of the seed to emerge. I don't know the type of seed your planting but I know kentucky blue needs temps consistantly over 60 to emerge. Any cooler and the watering of the fertilizer just washes it away. A waste.

[bdoss123]

Thanks for the detailed reply Capretrees.

In your instructions you mentioned raking the mixture of seed/lime/compost after the seed has been spread; and then using a roller after that.

I was planning on using a slit-seeder (Classen) - so can I avoid using the roller?

Also, I will be planting a TTTF (Fescue).

- BD

[packey]

for all of those who are not removing the majority of the wood chip you will create headaches for yourself. Go ahead and dig out most of the wood chips and fill with new soil. I know most think that these chips make good compost but what is not realized is their are two many chips in the area. We have had alot of trouble every where anyone has just covered over a ground stump with new topsoil. The grass and planting will live for a year or two then die out. I am speaking from shear experience on this topic. If you are a composter use the wood dirt mix in a compost pile for later. go rent you a back hoe and dig out the ground areas. once done fill with soil. I wold recomend tilling the area and amending the soil for best growing situations

[capetrees]

If you are starting a "new" lawn in this area as opposed to overseeding, the slit seeder is not the way top go. The slit seeder is used to actually slit the packed existing soil, as deep as you think needed, to allow the seeds to get into the soil to grow. This apparatus is used on existing lawns if you are overseeding the area without topdressing it. You could use this slitseeder to prep the existing soil to rough it up as I did last spring on a lawn prior to setting down new compost/topsoil. This would eliminate the need to rake it to rough it up so the soils bond. If you use the slitseeder on the new compost/topsoil mixture, it will essentially rototill the soil as you go. Also, if the slitseeder deposits the seed as you go, don't count on it putting down enough for a new lawn. Again, it's used primarily to overseed existing lawns so a dense deposit of seed isn't needed. You need a dense layer of seed if the lawn is new. I would still use the roller to ensure the seed and soil make a good contact. You could actually get away with not rollong it and just water the seed in to the soil but make sure you don't make puddles or runoffs because this will wash the seed away (from the runoffs) or make areas of dense seed growth surrounded by bare area (if you make puddles).

Remember also to hit the lawn again about 4 weeks after growth appears with another dose of starter fertilizer to boost the growth of the seedlings early on. Just a light application should do.