Help with existing wall

[HazellLawnCare]

A property management company that we do a lot of mowing, landscaping, and snow work for has contacted me about a wall they got wrote up on. I know they don't have alot of money in this properties account and want to fix it as cheap as possible. It appears the wall wall back filled with dirt and not compacted and there is no drain behind it. I am thinking I can take the wall down put a drain tile behind it, backfill with the right stuff and compact the fill, and use geogrid to tie it in with the soil behind it. I think the base might be ok but I won't decide until the wall is down. Do you think the improper construction is causing the wall to lean or is it roots from the tree?

[landstyles]

What are the measurments of the wall?.....Most likely poor build..... Can you post a pic of it?

[HazellLawnCare]

this might help

[HazellLawnCare]

some more here

[HazellLawnCare]

Also what kind of wall is this? It is held to together by plastic pins and I am sure some will be broken or lost when we put it back up. I would rather put in a new wall with a product I am familiar with but they don't want to spend the money. I told them there would be no gaurantee with this block but if they went new I would gaurantee it. The manager said that wall has been fine for 10 years so it should last another 10 after it is redone!

[landstyles]

Haven't seen that type of block before. Looks like the previous builder didn't backfill the wall properly. I would have taken a bit more out behind the wall and build a wider base for the block to sit on. As for saving the base, I wouldn't recommend it (contamination).
Just watchout with your pricing, because sometimes (all the time) rebuilding an old wall can be more time consuming and a bigger headache than building new. I usually price high enough to encourage the owner to go new. Make sure he realizes your in business to sell labour not material.

[loupiscopolandscaping]

ok thats versa-lock CTS block, i install lots of walls........... first off, take the ENTIRE wall down! stack blocks out of the way. Redue EVERYTHING! for this id have 6inches of QP compacted QP under my first course layer. Just because of the previous problem in have 1.5 blocks under the lower grade level. you should need geogrid, but for the price and the previous problem you can use it. its a MUST to have drainage behind that wall and a MUST to have atleast 2ft of 3/4 clean behind it. stack the blocks set everything properly and powerwash the wall so it looks halfway decent

[loupiscopolandscaping]

and that wall is a pin system so save all the pins if you can

[loupiscopolandscaping]

shouldnt need geogrid* i hate typing

[loupiscopolandscaping]

id say with QP and 3/4 clean with labor, id throw a price of 5k out there and see what they say. shouldnt take longer than 3 days with 2 guys and a machine

[HazellLawnCare]

Wow I shot for the moon then on price at $8,200! So you are saying put 2 foot of 3/4 behind the wall?

[loupiscopolandscaping]

yes, 2-2.5 is plenty, just have the draingage ran out properly and that lower grade graded properly. just by the pics it looks think water damage and not a proper backing.....WOW $8,200?? i hope you get the job and if you did congrats! the reason i say 5,000 is because how much is stone, piping, and geogrid?? maybe $750. 2 people for 3 days figure $800 + bobcat if needed to rent $200. so $1,750 plus gas and BS,lol. $2,000 in expenses 3 days of work. make a grand a day $5,000

[loupiscopolandscaping]

looking at the pics the wall looks about 100ft long, ehh maybe 6k cuz it is commercial

[HazellLawnCare]

I have the job already. Any clue where to get some more of the pins? I hope to start next monday.

[loupiscopolandscaping]

ok http://www.cstpavers.com/products.php?pid=13 thats the block, its in standard finish. locate the disturbutors in ur area....the pins r nylon glass reinforced..... id take one of the block to the dealer just to make sure.

[loupiscopolandscaping]

http://www.cstpavers.com/accessories.php?type=wall this has the pins and the geogrid... also dont forget to glue the caps.

[Captains Landscape]

id throw a price of 5k out there and see what they say

WTF?:nono:

[loupiscopolandscaping]

whats wrong captain??

[Captains Landscape]

I'm not going to tell you how to run your business, but if I was seeking help from "pros" (and I'm using that term loosely) only to be feed BS hypothetical numbers that come out of no where and don't pertain to my operating expenses, I would be disappointed at some point down the road. The man needs to understand his costs and overhead in order to price work to operate a successful company, not "throw prices out there and see what people say" like he's at some strip club.

[loupiscopolandscaping]

ok captain you look to deep in phrases and quotes. maybe you dont know how to read the cliend or public. i usually try to read an account to see how much they are will to pay. why make 1 dollar if you know you can get 2

[zedosix]

ok captain you look to deep in phrases and quotes. maybe you dont know how to read the cliend or public. i usually try to read an account to see how much they are will to pay. why make 1 dollar if you know you can get 2

So what you are saying is, if he drives a cadillac charge him more, if he drives a cavalier go easy on him? Whats happening over here is not pretty!

[Tom B.]

The block is Versalok and I believe the pins are a nylon/fiberglass combination. Kirchner is the manufacturer in St. Louis and they should be able to provide you with a local distributor if the Versalok website doesn't.

[loupiscopolandscaping]

not at all, once you explain the work and whats involved....ask if they have a budget. get as much info as possible....being in your own business you have to hustle to get ahead....also ask for previous quotes if any, then go by those figures if you can with your overhead.

[HazellLawnCare]

Ok guys this is not my first wall. I hate how everything on this website turns into this. I have constructed several new walls and they are standing just fine. This will be my first wall to take down and put back up. I was simply asking what your opinions were on what caused it to lean.

[loupiscopolandscaping]

lol i know, almost everytime i send a post someone has to criticize me... i guess with the thousands of people on this site having one person with negitive feedback isnt a bad thing.lol good luck with the wall and if u need to reach me let me know. good talking to you

[RockSet N' Grade]

What the most probable cause for this wall leaning is an insufficient footing. Along with the footing not being done proper, I would imagine that no drainage system of any type was even thought of, much less installed.

[loupiscopolandscaping]

thank you rockset n grade! thats the only variables it can be.... it the wall had a point sticking out, i think water, base, and possibly large tree root because it seems like the original contractor skimped out on the backing material

[loupiscopolandscaping]

btw those versa-lock blocks are 16x8x12 and 80 lbs each get ready to move some weight!

[loupiscopolandscaping]

also the caps in that pic are A and B caps, they dont make A and B caps anymore only C. C caps have straight sides for straight walls you have to cut the angle for curves.

[kootoomootoo]

Buy a versa lifter or two. You will know why after you buy it.
I have a box of pins in the shed.


"It appears the wall wall back filled with dirt and not compacted and there is no drain behind it."

Answered your own question.


http://www.versa-lok.com/contractor/cAccessories.htm

[mag360]

Pretty impressive that it lasted 10 years with soil as backfill.

[YardPro]

yes, 2-2.5 is plenty, just have the draingage ran out properly and that lower grade graded properly. just by the pics it looks think water damage and not a proper backing.....WOW $8,200?? i hope you get the job and if you did congrats! the reason i say 5,000 is because how much is stone, piping, and geogrid?? maybe $750. 2 people for 3 days figure $800 + bobcat if needed to rent $200. so $1,750 plus gas and BS,lol. $2,000 in expenses 3 days of work. make a grand a day $5,000

i also have issue with these numbers........

for us laborers cost $250/day with overhead,
bobcat rents for $175.00/day, and you would need it for the full time
it would take this guy more than three days, since he is unexperienced...
also what about cleanup of the site???
hauling the material you dug out to add the clean stone???

[mrusk]

i also have issue with these numbers........

for us laborers cost $250/day with overhead,
bobcat rents for $175.00/day, and you would need it for the full time
it would take this guy more than three days, since he is unexperienced...
also what about cleanup of the site???
hauling the material you dug out to add the clean stone???

You need to remember that Lou has no overhead or business expenses!!! He will do the job for 5k and put 3k in his pocket!!!!!!

[abclandscapingfx]

My 2 cents....

First of the true culprit to the failing wall, although workmanship is probably why....is the customer, 2 of the comments...basically wants a cheap fix, and the property managers' commment about lasting another 10 years...blah, blah, blah. The following philosophy sums it up....

Highest Quality, Superior Customer Service, and Cheapest Rates.....PICK TWO

As all of knows, you get what you pay for, and you don't get what you don't pay for.

You have all meet customers that want the Cadillac, but only want willing to pay for a Yugo.

Second, these forums, and the posts made, serve far more people that what you may realize. Point being, the orginal request was for ideas of what caused the failing wall, but so many ideas, hints, and suggestion on how to better construct and/or reconstruct wall(s) goes far more than a simple response. Thank you all for the input. I know for myself I like to gather as much info as possible, evaluate it, and apply as I see necessary.

Regarding pricing, well it's good moral practice not to gouge customers, and at the same time we(business owners) need to be compensated for the work we do, supply and demand dictate this to large extent. Where fair market value and price gouging meet or cross can vary. Anyone in the business knows, rework or as I call them DO-OVERS and Botch Jobs often cost more. I have bid jobs, and lost because I was highest and the home owner at the time precieved my quote/estimate as "unnecessary", "overkill", or just "not worth the investment" only to have the same customer on a couple occasions to call me back after the job was done at the low ball price to redue or fix someone elses mistakes. After much thought and evaluation, I've concluded the fault falls 90% on the customer, 10% contractor. My market area is famous for this, everyone with a hammer thinks they're a carpenter, pipewrench=plumber, shovel+rake=landscaper...and so on.

Any professional contractor regardless of trade does their best to attempt to educate their customers, but as the saying goes, you can't fix STUPID.

If running your own business was easy, everyone would be doing it, and each and everyone on this and many other of these sites could write a book on their own personal experiences. What sets us apart, is our abilty to keep at this day in and day out.

Thanks again for all the advice and please keep posting.