Organic lawn care florida

[DISTURBEDSMR]

Anyone on here use the organic fertilizers and weed control I am interested in going organic and would like input especially from other people in florida but would like help from anyone thanks

[Lawn-Sharks]

do you have a applicator license?

[Newby08]

lol, thats about the first thing you'll here on this site... if you don't have one you better be getting one or else you won't ever here the end of it.

I live in North GA and plan on starting a organic based company this year. So maybe we can compare notes on how things are going. What kind of soil do you have there?

[treegal1]

corn meal gluten is good, 6-1-1, also try soy meal and thiamine(spanish moss).if you have sand,(we live in jensen beach) you should think about hydro mulching verticaly in to the ground.and use lots of compost tea.... And since when do you need an applicators lic. for worm sh*t and compost. these chem. guys are a laugh, to many spray fumes has hurt their brain. go see the soil food web inc. dr.ingham is a real help!or safelawns.org

[Newby08]

hydro mulching... is that where you shoot the chems into the soil? what machines do that and where can you find them? if that is what it is

[Newby08]

hey disturbed, I started a new thread called back to the basics to get new people like you and me to be able to learn the basics about organics. Check it out, I've posted some websites that will get you started. Hopefully other people will join in. This is a great place to learn but as some others have pointed out to me don't forget to get out there and learn some things on your own.

[Elden]

Treegal, you don't need a licsense to put out compost or fertilize (only fertilizer no compound products like weed n feed). If you are spraying anything on the lawn you have to be liscensed, rather it be from a hand held sparyer all the way up to a 1 million gallon spray rig. Unless the owner supplies you with product and application equipment, then you can apply it for them. Get the laws and study them, If you are going to be in the business you should know the laws and regulations. Vertical mulching is not a practice used in lawn care. It would provide poor results and take countless hours to perform. Even if you did it 6" apart you would not get the desired results for the lawn. Vertical mulching is used for trees to create aeration, allow water and nutrient to get the roots better, and add organic matter to the soil profile. Have you looked at arboristsite.com it's just like lawnsite.

Disturbed, there is a practice that would be similar to what treegal described. If you aerate and then topdress with compost you can create the same effect. Aeration makes lots of little holes in the lawn, then topdressing w/compost will partially fill in those holes. It will give the lawn basically the same benifit as vertical mulching will do for trees. If you have other questions pm me

[treegal1]

hydro mulching is like hydro seeding with out seed,the mulch we use we make in house,rec. fruit boxes,fine ground tree waste(1/4inch or smaller)palm choir fines,worm castings and a little soy meal. it goes through a pump and down a 1" pipe,like putting a hose in the ground.
you can also use post hole diggers and bag mulch, works the same, on big yards that we get lazy on we just put 2 pounds of worms on the grass and it"does its own thing"
if the organic material is there.Why not "just get back to baisics" and spread a ton of good compost,works every time....

[treegal1]

the whole point is to add organic matter, and maybe if some one asks how it is done, then their business would be as brisk as mine is. Vertical mulch started out for trees that is true. But after seeing some talll grass over past "tree vertical mulch holes "we stumbled onto some thing that works great and is very profitable, organics is not about spraying death!

[Elden]

So instead of putting out compost or compost tea, your company is putting out compost slushie. This is truly a new idea to me. I have never heard it on here or anywhere else in terms of using it for organics. Great idea.

[Elden]

what size hydro sprayer do you use? and how many gallons do you put out per 1,000 sq ft?

[treegal1]

500gallon with 200' hose, we shoot the worst spots in the yard first month and so on. we get 2-6 000,feet per load
some yards we can see the sand laying on top. others have same... dirt? if you can call it that. We shoot it in about 2 foot deep if we can. and after our one watering per week you dont see the holes/ring of mulch

[Elden]

Why do you shoot it in 2 feet deep? If you are doing turf, 6"-8" would be enough cosidering most lawn root don't go deeper than that usually. I was thinking that you simply sprayed the compost slushie onto the lawn, but you actually inject it into the soil. How far apart do you space the holes? Sorry I am asking so many questions, it's just a new idea and I am interested

[Newby08]

So you go out and put 2ft of mulch "mush" on a customers lawn? or is this something you only do on larger open areas?

vertical mulching is when you take that gun and shoot it down at the base of the tree correct? I think I saw something similar to that once where, if I remember correctly, they were actually shooting away the soil to get to the tree roots to repair them. I guess it would be similar to that?

I know both of these can come across as very reasonable or very stupid questions.

and how big are these holes? 2ft deep into the ground seems like you would be tearing up a lot of lawn.

I think I might be misunderstanding this all together.

[treegal1]

1 inch pipe at an angle 45deg. no mush on top holes about 12 inches apart. the blast hole? is about 2" wide and re fills with 50%sand 50%mulch

[Newby08]

so your dealing with sand based soil correct? I'm always thinking of what we have here which is good ole Ga red clay. Would that work as well or do you think that it would be to hard?

[Elden]

Newby, I don't think that would work to well on red clay you would probly wind up wearing most of the compost.

Do you guys use any sort of injection tip? I would think that it would be difficult to get a 1" pipe into the soil w/ out making a huge mess even if you are injecting into pure sand. Are the lawns you do really small? If you were injecting every one foot on a 10,000 sq ft lawn it would take a really long time.

[Newby08]

that's what i was thinking

[ICT Bill]

The practice around here is used often to get down a lot of compost really quick. The companies that I have seen do it, throw their compost in a tub grinder and then use different methods of screening to get the compost to 1/8 inch or finer. The compost is then dumped into a Finn hydroseeder, 1 yard to 250 gallons of water, to produce what is called a slurry.

This practice is excellent for refurbishing yards or putting down new seed, it is fast, easy and can be controlled very well. Often a microbe and mycorrhizal mix will be added to get lots of beneficial microrganisms in the mix and active. I have seen 3 day germination rates and the long term health of the grass is excellent.

Thanks for bringing it up treegal

I have not found any organic lesco's down that way at all, do you know of any?

[Elden]

I have heard of hydro seeding, but I have never heard of anyone using a hydro seeding machine to just apply compost to lawns.

Bill, I know that you know way more about the all the soil biology stuff than I do...So, do you think that it would be more beneficial to the turf to apply a compost slurry as opposed to a compost tea?

[ICT Bill]

I see it as 2 seperate applications

Atively aerated compost teas are used for disease suppression, as a foliar to get nutrients and biology on the leaf and also as a drench in the soil to increase and support the good guys. In this case you are adding some organic matter but not a lot.

Compost is composed mainly of organic matter with lots of beneficial microrganisms as well and will raise SOM numbers and support the good guys. The beneficials in compost are mainly dormant but wake up and procreate when there is food and water around.

If you are making a slurry and squirt it out all over the soil I would think that the beneficials would wake up pretty darn quick as there is lots of food (compost) and it is a wet environment.

If you are trying to raise the soil organic matter numbers use the compost

[Elden]

Would it help to add an organic fertilizer like alfalfa meal to the mix, or would it be of no effect on the biology since it already has the compost in it to feed the biology?
What kind of diseases will the aact supress? The biggest disease problem in my area is brown patch.

[treegal1]

oh yes, blood, fish oil, alfalfa soy,sea weed, water plant tea, grass cliping tea, a soil test will help, take several samples and stir together,spend $75 and get a good one.
you will get a good base line on your soil and then you can formulate your tea/slurrie/compost/pulp to get a good result..... the tip we use is a litte like a slurpie straw and it has a back splah cover so no mud flys;) and we water at the same time,any water in our desert is a miricle

[treegal1]

as far as the enriched ACT the more micro herd the better the control there are several studies about worm tea and E/ACT. also soil ph will help the brown spot if it is fungal.
and if it is a pest problem the bacillus poplia. and nematoads,protazoa,rotifiers, should bust up ther party real fast, good biology is the key,compost from a bag is just dirt, start makeing your own and you will have black gold by the ton to match the pile of $ generated.NO animal manure, it is just trouble,well ok only worm manure, that is the best way to make ACT for beginers, just worm tea.

[Newby08]

I had a few customers when I had my maintenance business that had fescue lawns and everyone of them was having problems keeping a healthy full lawn of it. Would this compost be good for over seeding, putting the seed into it or put the seed down and then cover it up. I'm think I might be on a different subject than the poking holes, what if you just put it down as a top dress with seed as an over seeding?

[Newby08]

oh yeah,

I want to make sure I understand this correctly... ACT is a feed to the microorganisms, the compost is a home to it? You need compost before you put down a tea correct? And you want the tea to go on the foliage just as much as you want in the soil?

[treegal1]

simple just get the organics on the ground any way you can , my fishing camp was in wood stock, off sixes road, so i can give a little insight, if you have a machine that will work use it , tller, hydro....,whellbarow and pitchfork,hands,put down some,,alot of compost and watch it grow well,soil amendments are not good soil, there is no substitute for compost and good soil tilth

[Newby08]

yeah, i live just down the street from there. so I don't want to use what they have at the stores in bags I want a real compost... I understand that part. Now where are some places I can find compost? I talked to a few supply companies around that had a mushroom compost but from what I have been told there isn't much to it as far as beneficial organisms, apparently it's pretty sterile.

[Elden]

treegal, What is E/ACT? You also mentioned pH being a factor in brown patch fungus. What are the specifics of that being a factor?

Newby, you can put lawn seed into the compost slurry. that is commonly done. Google Hydroseeding. ACT (aerated compost tea) is actually a liquid that has microorginisms in it. Do a search on here there are a million post about it.

[treegal1]

Enriched, with your favorite addtive , pick one or use them all, seaweed, molasses, grass clip tea, fish oil, blood, sterilized manure tea and many more.USE WHAT YOU GOT!!!

[Newby08]

yeah, I've been reading a lot about teas, I thought it was something to just put down because it was beneficial. I guess it would make since that if you put all those microbes in the ground it would be good to have a healthy soil for them to live in other wise your just throwing them out into the trash. I didn't know it was a foliage type product to though. From what I understand I should start with a good compost and then go for tea. Start with a base and work my way up correct?

Enriched, with your favorite addtive , pick one or use them all, seaweed, molasses, grass clip tea, fish oil, blood, sterilized manure tea and many more.USE WHAT YOU GOT!!!

was that directed to me? So are you saying to use the mushroom compost and add those ingredients? I guess that would make since it just seems like a lot more money and work. I was wandering if you could point me to generic places to find good compost such as bulk topdressing places, or manure farms, I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

[Elden]

Newby, I feel your pain. I can not find good compost around my area either. I found one guy that ships in mushroom compost but he knows nothing about it at all, except for how much he charges. I think treegals comment was directed to my question about the E/ACT.

[treegal1]

ok start with wood chips shreds,the smaller the better,now add, in GA, lake weeds, rabbit or horse(vegetarian manure, the old stuff)grass clippings from an un educated lawn whiz,and some dumpster dive(fruit markets will set this aside for you)lettuce apples oranges and so on, mix well. now put all this in a compost-er,just google composting,aerated static pile,tumblers,we use two 8 cu Yard tumblers and three finishing piles with aeration(ring blower). make the c:n ratio correct and in 25-30 days at the rite temp. with the rite turning and you will have the best compost around. the extra bonus is your trimmings will disappear like magic. then you can use it strait or feed it to worms( we have 4,000,000 at present ) and wait another 30 days for the real deal! 100lbs wet to 400gal. of water and air/circ. and your set to go

[Newby08]

aeration(ring blower) what is this? I was wandering if I put a pipe with holes at the bottom of my compost pile would it be a good way of letting air get into the pile? How often do you turn your piles? If I do this I would like to do big piles, I have a friend who has about 10 acres that will probably let me put a pile on his property and he has a tractor to turn it with. The only problem is that he lives a good 30-45 min away. If I could get air introduced to the bottom wouldn't that require it to be turned less? What other thoughts do you have of doing this if it is possible that is cost efficient?

[treegal1]

areated static piles, try black drain tube and a blower,the lawn and leaf type

[Newby08]

someone pointed out that the drain tube would melt... I like the blower idea... how long would it have to run to get a sufficient amount of air? I know it depends on the size but could you give an idea?

[treegal1]

Temperature and oxygen are the determining factors for how much air. The pile should only reach mesophilic or low thermophilic temperatures.You do not want bacterial suicide or to damage higher organisms.We shoot for 150-160 degrees constantly and finish at 135-140.