Can Bobcat Company retool in a year's time?

[YellowDogSVC]

Does anyone know or think that Bobcat can retool and develop a complete new line of Bobcats with piston pumps and pressurized cabs in a year's time?

I have heard that Bobcat is married to an old manufacturing process and it would be difficult to retool fast enough to develop a new line of skidsteers to compete with CAT's new design. However, I have also heard that Bobcat has something coming out that will equal or better the cab comforts, hp, and high flow performance of anything on the market by year's end.

Any thoughts on this?

[RockSet N' Grade]

Necessity is the mother of invention. If your back is against the wall (and you realize it) it is inspiration or desperation.....I am a true believer that anything is possible. When it comes to corporate america who knows.......although, I do know if you throw enough money at something hard enough amazing results are possible overnight. Does BobCat "get it" and feel they need to make dramatic/immediate change? Only the board members can answer that.....

[cat2]

I never heard this, but i hope its true. Bobcat needs to step up

[mrsops]

everybody is all over bobcat.. i tell you my s330 k series machine with all the sound insulation is great you dont hear a thing so nice to operate.. and it has tons of hydro power when i use it

[Tigerotor77W]

Honestly? My thoughts are that Bobcat's already in the process of doing something, but I don't know what. I've sworn for years that the 773 was going to be replaced for Tier III emissions, but there's a little bird that thinks that the large machines will be replaced.

I will say this: they're darn good about keeping secrets. They definitely can't retool the entire factory in one summer, but I saw absolutely nothing to indicate that there's a new line of machines coming out when I was there in May 2007.

Something is coming, though -- I can promise you that. What it will be I have no idea... just my speculations.

[YellowDogSVC]

everybody is all over bobcat.. i tell you my s330 k series machine with all the sound insulation is great you dont hear a thing so nice to operate.. and it has tons of hydro power when i use it

My ears must be real sensitive. I have a brand new s300k with all the sound insulation and it is still noisy as hell and leaks dust when I mow or grade. I spent quite of bit of time this weekend installing rubber gaskets and using silicone to seal up more gaps I have found. This is in addition to the nearly full day of sealing, testing, and sealing that I did when I first took delivery of the machine.

Bobcat has issues that should have been resolved prior to adding air condition to this cab design. Not only do the cabs suck dust, the air that recirculates gets dirty and the evaporator fins eventually get clogged. I replace my air filters frequently in addition to just banging them out and they still get filthy.
I love Bobcat and my machine is fairly low maintenance but the creature comforts feel a bit below par after 6 machines with enclosed cabs since 2001.

It's time for a change and I would like to see something soon but I may have to go with another brand since I don't like to operate on speculation about what's coming out.

[mrsops]

my s330 is a charm to operate maybe you should take a look into one of them yellow..
i think the k series machines are great

[Digdeep]

Does anyone know or think that Bobcat can retool and develop a complete new line of Bobcats with piston pumps and pressurized cabs in a year's time?

I have heard that Bobcat is married to an old manufacturing process and it would be difficult to retool fast enough to develop a new line of skidsteers to compete with CAT's new design. However, I have also heard that Bobcat has something coming out that will equal or better the cab comforts, hp, and high flow performance of anything on the market by year's end.

Any thoughts on this?

I had mentioned before that Bobcat was going to go with an inline engine and do away with the transverse engine set-up. I also think that they will be going away from the Kubota engine.

[AI Inc]

didnt IR just sell bobcat recently?

[YellowDogSVC]

my s330 is a charm to operate maybe you should take a look into one of them yellow..
i think the k series machines are great

Even my dealer tells me that the gear pumps aren't as efficient for running the high flow as a piston pumps. Your machine and my machine are the same except for a larger displacement motor, bigger tires, and some counterweights. I have the latest s300k with only 400hrs and the cab still leaks dust (hopefully better after my latest improvements).

[YellowDogSVC]

didnt IR just sell bobcat recently?

Yes, to Doosan Infracore, i believe.

Dunno about that. I have heard from 2 reliable sources that something is in the works but no dates other than, wait till the end of the year. Maybe a prototype is out there. I still love Bobcat as a whole and would like to see some changes.

[YellowDogSVC]

duplicate message

[qps]

everybody is all over bobcat.. i tell you my s330 k series machine with all the sound insulation is great you dont hear a thing so nice to operate.. and it has tons of hydro power when i use it

If its the same as a T320....no thanks.....the whining noise and lack of power where disappointing to say the least...ride in a new C series and then make a comparison...

[mrsops]

Even my dealer tells me that the gear pumps aren't as efficient for running the high flow as a piston pumps. Your machine and my machine are the same except for a larger displacement motor, bigger tires, and some counterweights. I have the latest s300k with only 400hrs and the cab still leaks dust (hopefully better after my latest improvements).

hopefully you see some inprovement yellow.. what other brand would you be interested in going with for a skid steer?? my s330 has great ground clearance as well. i feel my s330 is a real nice machine big improvement from my s250 that i had and the s250 was a great machine to

[grassmanvt]

ok, a little off the topic but since your talking bobcat and changes, who makes bobcats new compact tractors? My guess was kioti because I think they are a doosan company. Not sure though, anyone?

[mrsops]

If its the same as a T320....no thanks.....the whining noise and lack of power where disappointing to say the least...ride in a new C series and then make a comparison...

c series??

[kreft]

he means the new cat machines.

[mrsops]

he means the new cat machines.

yeah when i demoed a cat skid 2 years ago i forgot what model it was but they matched it up with my s205 i thought they s205 was a better machine..

but i really hope cats new track machines are better then what they last had, because i know of atleast 5 differnt contractors that all said the same thing it just fell apart.. 3 of them are now in the t190 and t300

[YellowDogSVC]

hopefully you see some inprovement yellow.. what other brand would you be interested in going with for a skid steer?? my s330 has great ground clearance as well. i feel my s330 is a real nice machine big improvement from my s250 that i had and the s250 was a great machine to

I've been pursuing a 272c. I like the ride, ac, power, and hydro flow. I don't like the clearance and flat keel, no frame on door, and apparent unknown causes of fires, and the price is steep compared to my s300k.

I thought I could feel the difference between my s300 and s250 but I think the motors are just different colors. :dizzy:

[YellowDogSVC]

ok, a little off the topic but since your talking bobcat and changes, who makes bobcats new compact tractors? My guess was kioti because I think they are a doosan company. Not sure though, anyone?

i think it's a kioti design with Bobcat improvements

[mrsops]

so you like the 272 better then the s300k

[CarterKraft]

Have any of you ever seen the CAT to Bobcat comparison book, it compares basic machine structures and designs. It's very enlightening to how far behind Bobcat really is compared to the other manufacturers.

Having said that what they have works and has for quite some time. I used to work at a central repair Hub for a nationwide rental company were we serviced Bobcat , CASE and misc Gehl machines. All the things that I think are really poor designs, we didn't have to repair much, for example the belt driven pumps, locking pin parkiung brake, right angle fan drive and others I have forgotten.

As to a Gear Hyd pump, they work great for certain applications. They are almost bullet proof, no adjustments required, 2 moving parts etc. They are no match however to the capacity of a pressure compensated piston pump for a high flow, high pressure application. Think a 30 GPM pump when it needs to be, a 1/4 GPM pump when it doesn't. Try that with a gear pump.

[bobcat_ron]

I remember when Cat first hit the dealers, they were toted as "all of the patents that didn't work or expired" from previous machines, that's why they resemble Case, Thomas and Bobcat, Cat used up those ideas and patents and made them better. A good example are the loader arms, the curve, first thing I noticed is when I lift the loader higher than the cab, I always sh*t bricks in my previous bobcats due to the Auxiliary Quick couplers getting hit by a low door way, but the Cat design makes it impossible as he curve is higher up on the loader frame.

[Ausman]

Bobcat is now owned by Doosan a Korean company, the good old Bobcat wont be the same.

[Digdeep]

ok, a little off the topic but since your talking bobcat and changes, who makes bobcats new compact tractors? My guess was kioti because I think they are a doosan company. Not sure though, anyone?

I am pretty sure you are right.

[Digdeep]

yeah when i demoed a cat skid 2 years ago i forgot what model it was but they matched it up with my s205 i thought they s205 was a better machine..

but i really hope cats new track machines are better then what they last had, because i know of atleast 5 differnt contractors that all said the same thing it just fell apart.. 3 of them are now in the t190 and t300

I can't really speak for the new CAT B series 2 or the C series but I can fill a chapter book with the problems the Bobcat track machines had when I sold them (not much has changed according to my buddy who still sells bobcat)- drive motors, bearings seals, tracks, over heating, quick attaches, cabs, E/H pilots, electronics, etc.

[YellowDogSVC]

so you like the 272 better then the s300k

yes. I think it's a more advanced and more comfortable machine but each has it's pluses and minuses but as I have pointed out, I have relatively few problems with my G series and K series machines other than dust in the cab and lackluster hydraulic performance. I have virtually solved the radiator clogging and overheating problems of a few years ago through better in field maintenance and disposable AC cut to fit filters.

I feel safe and secure knowing my Bobcat probably won't fail (or catch on fire) when I am deep in the woods but I still have that nagging lackluster hydraulic performance that frustrates me. It's akin to weak batteries on my DVR's remote control.. them channels just don't change fast enough. :)

[ksss]

I agree with Tiger that you will very likely see a very different BC in the future. How long that will take? I am not sure anyone really knows.

[Tigerotor77W]

I thought I could feel the difference between my s300 and s250 but I think the motors are just different colors. :dizzy:

That's it! That must be how they get the ROC boost from the 250 to the 300... :P

(just kidding around of course... no offense meant.)

[Scag48]

Doosan puts their own motors in their excavators which would completely deter me from buying a Doosan excavator. Why they won't run Isuzu I don't know, but I think it's only a matter of time before Doosan's diesels make it into Bobcat which I'm sure will ruffle some feathers a little.

[Stillwater]

Bobcat is now owned by Doosan a Korean company, the good old Bobcat wont be the same.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6921731.stm

[Ausman]

You wont see any new engines for a while as Bobcat has in excess of 12 months of iron in their warehouse that was inventroried with the doosan sale. that is why IR sold them, they were not a profitable company and were buildin for stock. If that continues doosan may well and truely redesign the bobcat to suit the larger asian sub continent market.

[Stillwater]

the sale made me somewhat jumpy, now I am concerned about parts support and availability in the future

[ksss]

the sale made me somewhat jumpy, now I am concerned about parts support and availability in the future

Doosan paid like 5 Billion for BC. They need to get money back on their investment. I would look for them to bend over backwards to maintain their customer base and work on expanding it. If they had stolen BC off the market, I would say anything is possible, however at 5 Bil they cant monkey too much with it at least not early on.

[grassmanvt]

Doosan puts their own motors in their excavators which would completely deter me from buying a Doosan excavator. Why they won't run Isuzu I don't know, but I think it's only a matter of time before Doosan's diesels make it into Bobcat which I'm sure will ruffle some feathers a little.

I wouldn't discredit the daewoo engine.(I think daedong is what they actually call their engine line) I have a 130-5 excavator and two daewoo skids. Very good running, clean and efficient engines. My two beat up and older looking dsl601 and 801 skids will even start quicker than my 236 cat on a cold day. They do lack some frills but I have been very impressed by the engines.

[RentalGuy]

Being a strong Bobcat supporter over the years, I have been impressed with what I am hearing and seeing since the acquisition by Doosan. I have had lengthy discussions with my dealer both in the past and recently regarding the effect that Ingersoll Rand had on the direction of Bobcat Company. From changes related to R&D, Quality Control, and Pricing Structures, IR just didn't get it at a very fundamental level. Because of that you see a lot more hate directed at the Bobcat brand now that at any point in history. That is a shame but it is what it is. Luckily, I have had a tremendous dealer that I believe in and they make it an easy choice for me whenever I purchase new rental equipment.

I am excited by the direction of Bobcat and I think that we ("Bobcat buyers") will start seeing a positive change in the course of the Bobcat brand moving forward.

[YellowDogSVC]

Being a strong Bobcat supporter over the years, I have been impressed with what I am hearing and seeing since the acquisition by Doosan. I have had lengthy discussions with my dealer both in the past and recently regarding the effect that Ingersoll Rand had on the direction of Bobcat Company. From changes related to R&D, Quality Control, and Pricing Structures, IR just didn't get it at a very fundamental level. Because of that you see a lot more hate directed at the Bobcat brand now that at any point in history. That is a shame but it is what it is. Luckily, I have had a tremendous dealer that I believe in and they make it an easy choice for me whenever I purchase new rental equipment.

I am excited by the direction of Bobcat and I think that we ("Bobcat buyers") will start seeing a positive change in the course of the Bobcat brand moving forward.

My dealer gave me some hope. I have heard that IR just didn't support the brand they way they should have and that's why we never saw a lot of changes. I think Bobcat is a great choice for rental. The machines really are low maintenance and a proven design. I have been complaining for a long time about the creature comforts especially the dust in the enclosed cabs. Seems that would have been an easy fix but it hasn't been addressed since 2001.

[BIGBEN2004]

Bobcat is too big and strong of a brand to just fail. I believe they will retool some things and come out stronger then ever and be a heavy competitor to everyone else.

[Blyth]

I know YellowDog has said it before.. I am going to say it again... Bobcat does need some help on their A/C systems in the Bobcats from my experiences. Hopefully, some of the common complaints about the cab comforts will be addressed.

[bobcat_ron]

And Bobcat R & D people, if you are reading this 4 simple words that can make a skid steer better - "Open Loop Hydraulic System".

[Stillwater]

it can take a auto maker years to retool, Somewhere hear about a week ago I posted a video of the Komatsu factory makeing a loader

[YellowDogSVC]

Bobcat is too big and strong of a brand to just fail. I believe they will retool some things and come out stronger then ever and be a heavy competitor to everyone else.


That's what I was thinking.

My Bobcats salesman, when I discussed possibly going with a CAT, pointed out the higher Bobcat resale across the board. Looking at a site like Machinerytrader.com that statement appears to be factual. I guess the brand still has quite a bit of loyalty or maybe the machines are that reliable. My experience tells me it's a combo of the two. I just wish the hydro system and creature comforts were a bit more accomodating.

[Stillwater]

That's what I was thinking.

My Bobcats salesman, when I discussed possibly going with a CAT, pointed out the higher Bobcat resale across the board. Looking at a site like Machinerytrader.com that statement appears to be factual. I guess the brand still has quite a bit of loyalty or maybe the machines are that reliable. My experience tells me it's a combo of the two. I just wish the hydro system and creature comforts were a bit more accomodating.

Oh yes this is true and cannot be explained away buy anyone. But the resale value of a BC is by no means the only consideration when chooseing a skid replacement their are many.

[mrsops]

i love bobcat skid steers always have always will. they will be back on top again real soon

[cat2]

i love bobcat skid steers always have always will. they will be back on top again real soon




You hope. they will be on top again.






i do to:cool2:

[bobcat_ron]

Not me, I just saw another ex Bobcat nut go Cat working on the mountain!!

[RentalGuy]

My dealer gave me some hope. I have heard that IR just didn't support the brand they way they should have and that's why we never saw a lot of changes. I think Bobcat is a great choice for rental. The machines really are low maintenance and a proven design. I have been complaining for a long time about the creature comforts especially the dust in the enclosed cabs. Seems that would have been an easy fix but it hasn't been addressed since 2001.

By all accounts, IR management was very arrogant and didn't appreciate the nature of today's marketplace. As such, Bobcat and its direction suffered a bit. I think Doosan gets it and will not squander the Bobcat name and what it is supposed to stand for.

Regarding using Bobcat for rental equipment, I cannot complain one bit. I have been in business since 1994 and my Bobcat Equipment is the anchor of my compact equipment fleet. I started off with a 743 and a 742B back then and now I have a good stock of 185's, T190's, MT52's, Mini-Excavator's and a brand new CUT with various attachments. My Bobcat's have always been solid -- no major problems and rental can be a tough life for a piece of machinery. But again, a great dealer does help as well and they are always right there when ever I need assistance.