Stamped vs Pavers

[Team-Green L&L]

Okay, I've seen one too many stamped concrete threads to just idle by. Let's compare the 2 products and how they fair to each other:

1. Stamped concrete has a higher profit margin
2. Pavers have a higher load bearing and better load distribution
3. All poured concrete WILL crack
4. Paver repairs are not intrusive.
5. Concrete must cure (renedering the project useless for a period of time).
6. Stamped concrete has a "fresher" look to it.
7. Pavers provide MUCH more traction the stamp.
8. Paver colors are limited to production choices.
9. Stamp patterns are limited to production styles.
10. Stamp has less labor requirements.
11. Industry-standard pricing concurs between both products.

Please add to this comparison chart with an open mind and as little prejudice as possible.

[cleancutccl]

Pavers if done correctly will last at least 25-30 years. Concrete if done correctly will last possibly 10-12 years.

[DoubleB]

Dude, paver's, if done correctly, by achieving at least 98% compaction, the right amount of base ( also, the correct base ), the correct edge restraints, slope...yada, yada... will last a lifetime.

[pj550v12]

Dude, paver's, if done correctly, by achieving at least 98% compaction, the right amount of base ( also, the correct base ), the correct edge restraints, slope...yada, yada... will last a lifetime.

Point in case, anyone seen some of the roads in Rome lately?? 2000 years later and their interlock shows no signs of weakening.

[Paver Gangster]

Numerous life cycle analysis studies show that segmental pavement has lower discounted life cycle costs than monolithic surfaces.

[cleancutccl]

I did say AT LEAST. and yes if done correctly they will last forever.

[CaliDesigns]

If concrete only lasts 10 years, we better evacuate Vegas, cause hoover dam is way past due to burst! We should start building the interstates and runways with pavers also if they last forever. There is a time and place for both products. The key to both products is quality intallation.

[Paver Gangster]

If concrete only lasts 10 years, we better evacuate Vegas, cause hoover dam is way past due to burst! We should start building the interstates and runways with pavers also if they last forever. There is a time and place for both products. The key to both products is quality intallation.

True.

But much different applications. We are talking about patios and driveways here.

[mhilton]

All of vegas is stamped or stained concrete. they are past the 10 to 12 year mark so i geuss they should start to demo and install the perfect paver as you all like so much. You really should not past judgement on somthing you obviously know nothing about.

[badassgrass]

If this is true, http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/01/science/01pyramid.html?ref=science you will have the tear down the Giza pyramids.

[PlatinumLandCon]

All of vegas is stamped or stained concrete. they are past the 10 to 12 year mark so i geuss they should start to demo and install the perfect paver as you all like so much. You really should not past judgement on somthing you obviously know nothing about.

Its not necessarily the actual structure, but its the finish. My neighbour's stamped concrete is fading and wearing down but the pavers on my driveway are fine. I'm not a pro with concrete so I'm sure there's something out there that can prolong the finish.

[CaliDesigns]

It's called satire

[Majesticman]

Brick is the real thing and you can't duplicate it with concrete. At least to me at any distance.

Number one is concrete cracks.

But you can't acid stain brick. I like acid work indoors on floors and counter tops. I will use it in my next house.

[Team-Green L&L]

Dude, paver's, if done correctly, by achieving at least 98% compaction, the right amount of base ( also, the correct base ), the correct edge restraints, slope...yada, yada... will last a lifetime.
Double D, this post sounds a bit like a bunch of ICPI spokesman dialogue (no offense). We all know how long pavers will last if done correctly. We all saw the slideshow and most of us can quote the teaching about the Zaggarat and the Great Wall of China and the 80% paver pavment in Europe and all the other great ICPI and NCMA stuff, but the point still remains that a customer (in general) does not care what happens in 10-100 years from now. They care about trends and social prestige RIGHT NOW!

We will always try to sell pavers because we are landscapers and not concrete contractors, but we must ask ourselves what doors that closes? This thread is purely for "open comparison" and not an opportunity to demonstrate your paver selling skills.

I've been so used to "selling pavers" now that I have become a little closed minded myself, but don't ever forget that ICPI and NCMA are courses sponsored and taught by distributors whose intentions are to created a sales force out of the contractors that are dealing with the end-user of their product. I love the programs, but I am not niave and do know when I'm being "trained".

I'm sorry for the rant, but I thought I made this clear in the first post...

[Team-Green L&L]

Brick is the real thing and you can't duplicate it with concrete. At least to me at any distance.

Number one is concrete cracks.

But you can't acid stain brick. I like acid work indoors on floors and counter tops. I will use it in my next house.

Thank you for this input, but please reserve your comparisons to OTHER building materials to another thread. This thread is a direct comparison of CONCRETE PAVERS vs DECORATIVE or "stamped" CONCRETE.

We find ourselves competing with these materials WAY too often and I believe this thread will prove beneficial in the "sales" end of the business. I don't mean to sound like an a**, but it's nice to keep threads as "on topic" as possible for reference later. Thanks for the understanding.

[barefeetny]

I can be independent and like the look of both...

I am not in the buisness of putting either substance down in great ammounts

but i think concrete is getting an unfair rap. I worked in heavy industry for quite a few years ...Concrete can take abuse that pavers would never stand up too..

while pavers laid down properly will last forever

Concrete laid down properly lasts a long time as well... longer then 12 years.imo..

SEE Handprints in front of manns Chinese Theatre... they go back to 1927 and California has earthquakes

just my .02.. resume discussion

Nate

[CaliDesigns]

Team green, I like your thoughts. I'm just a concrete guy trying to help the landscaper every now and then. I let my work speak for it's self. Not to sound arogant or anything, but I already have 1/2 my work sold for the year. That's not too bad in the market we're in right now.
Just added a couple of pics of jobs I designed and built, for what it's worth.

[stvnbc]

I have the best answer.....offer both

I attended a decorative concrete class last year and offer stamped overlays. I can do pavers when required and can also overlay existing concrete. I do not pour concrete and will never have a desire to do so. I landed 2 large interior acid stain jobs in Nov. that pretty much got me through the winter months...huge profits...and I mean HUGE!!

[AztlanLC]

Same here, some people just wants one thing over the other this past season we had a customer that went to florida and saw all those patios and driveways of stamped concrete, he had his mind set to do the same at his house.
We incorporated stamped concrete 2 seasons ago even tough we haven't got many jobs doing this service but have being able to not loose jobs for not offering it.
Most landscapers already have all the tools need it to offer this service.
Stamped concrete is not you enemy you can make a good profit if your willing to learn, just make sure you have people in your staff that knows some concrete basics.

[DeereHauler]

i'm glad this discussion came up. i had a customer last week ask my opinions on both products. i think both are beautiful, and have their benefits. even though i don't install concrete, i offered her fair opinions on both. we decided to go with pavers because we are only installing a sidewalk right now, with full intenions of installing a large patio area later. we felt that we could incorporate existing pavers into the new patio better than we could add to concrete. i don't know a whole lot about concrete but i feel it could be difficult to match later down the road.


also consider your location, i'm up here is PA, we get some bad frost and freezing, so concrete will crack, its just a matter of time, no matter how good the install is. i've seen floors built on very hard shale with crushed limestone under it crack in the first year.


it will be much easier to repair a paver job than a crack in concrete.

[Team-Green L&L]

I have the best answer.....offer both

I attended a decorative concrete class last year and offer stamped overlays. I can do pavers when required and can also overlay existing concrete. I do not pour concrete and will never have a desire to do so. I landed 2 large interior acid stain jobs in Nov. that pretty much got me through the winter months...huge profits...and I mean HUGE!!

I could've picked out several posts to say this to, but please reserve comments that don't COMPARE the 2 building materials for another thread. So far I have yet to read many "comparisons", but more so, debating and justifying.

Just so you guys know. We do install both and have seen good and bad points to both. The entire reason behind this thread was to learn about the benefits and negatives of BOTH materials.

Does anyone have any "open-minded" opinions on here? This is not a sales debate.

Poured concrete and segmental concrete are two entirely different products that really need to be compared without bias.

Guys who just got though an ICPI course tend to preach the things they were taught by the manufacturers of those materials. If they took the same type of course at the NA Hardscape Show (instructed by Increte), they would be quoting things like "unlimited colors" and "profit margins" instead of "durability" and "load bearing".

The bottom line is that consumers are just not concerned with 100 years from now and the "longevity pitch" is not that viable. Try to sell extended warranties at Circuit City and you'll see what I mean by that.