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Lite4
02-22-2008, 03:51 PM
This may seem like an odd question. But is there any corrolation between the quality of socket and the longevity of bulbs. I know manus claim that they have differing types of sockets (primarily speaking about bi-pins) that set them apart from the imports. What are these main differences, and will a cheap socket cause a short in a bulb or premature burnout? I am wondering if any of you that use several different brands of lights, notice a higher premature lamp burnout rate with some over others? I am trying to do a little research and I am noticing some differences between fixture brands with the same bulb and same voltage, but having different burnout rates. I have noticed this over and over. I don't know if it is an inconsistency in bulb reproduction or if it is the quality of sockets used in their lights.

klkanders
02-22-2008, 04:24 PM
"an inconsistency in bulb reproduction"


Tim, Where did you get those bulbs that reproduce? Where can I get me some? :laugh:

:drinkup: Sorry I started early! :drinkup:

Seriously I have noticed less burnout on my Unique fixtures versus Kichler and others.

Lite4
02-22-2008, 04:31 PM
I have noticed that as well on mine. Joey, what are you putting in those sockets? What makes yours (Unique) so to speak?

Tommy Marshall
02-22-2008, 05:14 PM
Glad this came up... I have been meaning to investigate a particular Lamp also that I have trouble with.
I have two different jobs ,different fixtures, Same lamp used. I had used a few MR-16 10 Watt.... I know the rating is only 1500 hours, but I am not getting any where near that. I have double checked my voltages and I am right on. Fortunately I have not used many , but I have some that I seem to continue to replace. I replaced Socketts once thinking it would make a difference, but few months later, were out again. Only burning 5-6 hours per night.
?????

Tommy Marshall
Light Creations

Eden Lights
02-22-2008, 05:37 PM
I never use use the 10watter because the Ushio 20WBAB60 with a lens is a much better lamp with the same affect.

Pro-Scapes
02-22-2008, 05:52 PM
I have not noticed any difference in 10w lamp life. I use cast service saver 10w. I have noticed I got a run of cast fixtures at a house that seeminly eats lamps. Seems I replace 2-4 lamps everytime I check them out. Another house around the corner... same lamps... same fixtures... same voltages and I have replaced 2 lamps in a year and a half.

I am attributing this to power surges and having a panel level surge supressor installed when we light the batting cage

poiuy qwerty
02-22-2008, 06:30 PM
Cast had a "bad batch" of lamps 2 times in the past 3 years per cast reps.

Pro-Scapes
02-22-2008, 06:37 PM
yeah and i think i bought every one of them... talk about service calls. I relamped jobs with ushio on my dime. The ushios are holding ok but seem to like about 11v... if you run em at 11.5 or up they dont seem to hold up well. I am playing with Sylvania Tru aim titans now and found brilliant light output so far from them.

Lite4
02-23-2008, 02:44 AM
Does anybody know of differences in sockets from different manus? I have the same problem Billy. I have 8 lights on 2 jobs, and it seems that they are either shorting out or are just burning out about every 3 months. It is really agrivating and I am really considering just changing out the sockets if I can find a reliable socket. The bulbs are Ushios Mr-11s. I have also noticed the same problem emerging with some of the MR16s form Ushio too. I may just have to order fixtures without the lamps and go back to the GEs. Still, I don't know if it is the lamp or the socket. Voltage is running an average of about 11.4-11.7 on each fixture.

ChampionLS
02-23-2008, 03:39 AM
There are only two manufacturers I know of who make halogen ceramic sockets. Everyone uses them, so I doubt they are the problem. Any others would be import, and god only knows what they are using for a conductor.

Pro-Scapes
02-23-2008, 10:28 AM
I think joey said his are beryilum ? (sp) I think the issue I had with the cast ones are the sockets work loose from the lamp. Alot of times if you just touch the light it comes back on. Tim see if you can go down a tad on your voltage on thoes mr11's and see if it helps... if you had half v taps this would be simple :)

My lamp issues seem to be limited to fixtures with floating sockets. Anything I have with a fixed socket out there seems to be holding up fine.

Lite4
02-23-2008, 10:50 AM
Wow, mine are just the opposite. All my fixed sockets are the problem for me. Eddie told me a while back to try the GEs for the MR 11s. I think I will pick those up and see how those perform next to the Ushios, which has been poor.

ChampionLS
02-23-2008, 12:22 PM
Yup. Thats right. The good sockets use beryllium copper conductors VS brass or tin coated brass. You guy should definitely but a small dab of NYK Anti-Corrosive compound on the pins before inserting them. The heat causes galling and micro oxidation of the contact area. The NYK will help. I wouldn't put more than a little dab on a halogen bulb's pins- just enough to put a slight coating on them. I notice Vista and Hadco carries the same product as we do. The stuff really works. It's not a grease either.

Pro-Scapes
02-23-2008, 12:56 PM
Wow, mine are just the opposite. All my fixed sockets are the problem for me. Eddie told me a while back to try the GEs for the MR 11s. I think I will pick those up and see how those perform next to the Ushios, which has been poor.

As you know we service a lot of systems we didnt install. I do notice a good amount of probs with vista fixed sockets but have seen no issues with kichler or some other brands. Not sure who is getting sockets from who. The cast bullets will work loose sometimes. Not sure if this was limited to the cast lamps or if the ushios will do it too I replaced the cast lamps with.

Tim if you have not seen or tried the osram/sylvania tru aim titan series you may want to. I cannot speak for longetivity but the output seems more robust than the ushios.

irrig8r
02-23-2008, 01:35 PM
I think maybe it's time someone came up with an alternate design to replace bi-pin sockets.

Did I hear something about HK Lighting using something different?

ChampionLS
02-23-2008, 05:14 PM
Like I said. You don't have much choice when there are only two major manufacturers of sockets out there.

The Lighting Geek
02-24-2008, 02:46 AM
I always use silicone electrical grease on all bulbs and it has stopped almost all of the problems you have been describing. Better sockets are the way to go. Cheap sockets = lots of service calls

Also I just ran into a job that was having a surging power source problem. I was called to find out why the bulbs were all burning out prematurely, (we did not install it) and it took a while to figure out the problem.

Lite4
02-24-2008, 08:45 AM
The main problem I am having is with some vista MR 11 lights. It was a mistake to put these in. I think I may buy some sockets from Unique and put them in.

Pro-Scapes
02-24-2008, 10:00 AM
Tommy. We are starting to spec surge protection at the panels for all new installs. Costs a bit more now but will save the client in service calls and premie failures. I installed 1 surge protector at the trans on a job a couple months ago and no burn outs since then. Before I installed it I lost 2 lamps in a very short time

The Lighting Geek
02-24-2008, 01:16 PM
We are starting to spec surge protection at the panels for all new installs. Costs a bit more now but will save the client in service calls and premie failures. I installed 1 surge protector at the trans on a job a couple months ago and no burn outs since then. Before I installed it I lost 2 lamps in a very short time

Great idea Billy, your the man!

Tommy Marshall
02-24-2008, 01:38 PM
Will try and touch on several responses with out going back every few min. to review. Hope I can remember everything I want to say.
My Two Problems with the premature burnouts as stated are always at the same locations, One is Commercial upscale gated community, I have 7 Transformers, Only one Location, the main entrance ,is where I have the premature burnout.The others I used on the property thus far are doing OK. Voltage is good, Maybe it has to do with a surge in this particular section of this community ??
Sercond is at a residence, Two Transformers, and the only ones after a year to burn out repeatedly is the 10 W MR-16. I forget who said it with out looking back (sorry) I will not use them again at this poind, will go with a 2060,should of done this in the first place being that I keep a stock of those in my Lamp box.
Ushio's: I have tried to saty away from them, I use only GE if I can.Unless Ushio has improved I noticed something about them many years ago and I Immediaetly quit using them. I was doing a Complete service on a two year old install, replacing ALL lamps working or not, Cleaning all fixtures and lens, re-tweaking , You know the drill. After replacing all of the used or old Lamps, I got to looking at all of the MR-16 lamps,some...working or not ,still looked brand new, the reflective mirror coating looked brand new, The others working and not working, the reflective coating was now Transparent, Ya'll have seen them before... All the Ushio's had lost their reflective coating and All GE lamps still looked brand new. So much for the decision as to what I was going to use from then on. They may have improved since then, I don't know, I have not used one in Several years I don't think. I order my fixtures and Lamps seperately. My Distributor knows to only send me GE now, If they are out of stock they will drop ship them to me.
I am not educated on Sockets as some of you are, I appreciate the knowledge shared on them, I do keep Sockets or Wire harness's available to replace ones that become a problem.
Thanks...
Tommy Marshall
Light Creations

Tommy Marshall
02-24-2008, 01:42 PM
Billy, What kind of surge protection do you use? Something like you would use in your office that you have your computer hooked up to or something different that has more protection.
Thanks.
Tommy Marshall
Light Creations

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2008, 10:03 AM
Tommy, you and I are on the same page regarding the use of Ushio lamps... Stick with the GE's, for a few pennies more you will not be disappointed.

As for the surge protection (power conditioning) I pretty much spec. this into every large job I do if the client does not already have it. I recommend the use of INTERMATIC PANEL GUARD units. They install directly onto the main panel and protect the entire home from surges and transients. (Have an EC do the installation of course)

The benefit to you will be a reduced number of prematurely failed lamps. The benefit to the client is that their entire electrical service is now protected.

Have a great day.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2008, 10:06 AM
I think maybe it's time someone came up with an alternate design to replace bi-pin sockets.

Did I hear something about HK Lighting using something different?

Gregg. Check out the sockets that Hunza uses. I have not seen these in any other fixture line. I cannot for a moment believe that these sockets are made by Hunza, or exclusively for Hunza, which begs the question why other Manu's have not "discovered" them.

I keep a number of spare Hunza sockets on hand at all times... they come in handy when others fail.

Regards.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Great idea Billy, your the man!

Not that I really give a rat's arse... as we are all here to share and better the industry, and our craft...

but if you could properly address your kudo's to the originator of the ideas once in a while it would be appreciated! :waving:

(A quick search of "surge", "panel guard", or "transients" should do the trick)

Have a great day.:)

Tommy Marshall
02-25-2008, 10:21 AM
Thanks for the info James, I am also going to look into the Hunza Sockets, I don't know about them, But I too keep spares, would be nice to have an alternative.
Tommy Marshall
Light Creations

Pro-Scapes
02-25-2008, 10:31 AM
Billy, What kind of surge protection do you use? Something like you would use in your office that you have your computer hooked up to or something different that has more protection.
Thanks.
Tommy Marshall
Light Creations

Tommy I do have a couple of external outdoor rated ones where MDL sent me them for tripped breaker issues and they corrected them. I have some smaller ones going in on subpanels to protect my systems and we will spec the same ones james uses on new installs where these are an option. I never use a powerbar type protector for a trans

Pro-Scapes
02-25-2008, 10:36 AM
Not that I really give a rat's arse... as we are all here to share and better the industry, and our craft...

but if you could properly address your kudo's to the originator of the ideas once in a while it would be appreciated! :waving:

(A quick search of "surge", "panel guard", or "transients" should do the trick)

Have a great day.:)

Dont worry james no one is trying to hurt your ego. I did bring up the surge suppression on another forum and you brought up the panel level ones. My electricians offered a smaller solution to just protect my systems vs the entire house.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2008, 11:02 AM
Ahh it was a joke Billy, hence the use of the silly emoticons.

JoeyD
02-26-2008, 11:03 AM
We use a copper beryllium socket that has the highest temp ratings and has the tightest springs/contacts we could find. this helps for longevity and in replacing lamps over and over and the higher quality material allows for a longer lasting continuity providing socket. We to always grease with a Di Electric grease fromt eh factory for added corrosion resistance. We pride ourselves on our high quality sockets.