Cat 247b2 vs T190 take 2

[yardworkslawncare]

Cat dealer just dropped off a new 247b2 to demo. Brougt over my buddies 06t190 to do a little side by side comparison. The cat operates/rides like dream compared to the bobcat. My concern is the lack of lift of the 247. I understand radial vs vertical lift but when we stacked a couple of boulders on top of each other and tried to lift them the comparison stopped. The bobcat did it (fully lifted) at idle and the 247 at full throttle would not even curl them back off of the ground. Bobcat ron or others, my question is will the 247 lift a full pallet of wet sod or a full pallet of landscape blocks off the back of the delivery truck???

We will continue to compare over the weekend, but have only snow to play in and can't do dirt comparisons.

Any feed back appreciated.

[bobcat_ron]

No it won't, you are comparing the T190's 1900 lbs of ROC to the 247's 1435 ROC, even if you added additional counterweights to the 247, it still won't do it. A fairer comparison is the 257, it has 1850 lbs of ROC.
It also depends on where it needs to lifted from, right off the ground or off a flat bed truck. The Cat 247 is an odd machine, stack it next to a Bobcat T140 and it eats it alive in the HP and bucket break out and sheer power, but stack it next to the T180 and you got a close match with less ROC. There is more hydraulic HP at the auxiliaries though, gear pumps on the Bobcats are weaker than the mighty piston pumps on the Cats, I just found that out on my flail mower.

[yardworkslawncare]

I love the size,ride, and control of this machine. Im just a little dissapointed that it would not fair a little better. I like the idea of it being just under 7000lb operating weight. Another option I am looking at is a 232b2 and adding the loegering tracks to It. I have read through alot on here and my head is still spinning. I plow/push snow so I really like the Idea of a tire machine. I know with my landscape work and working across existing lawns tracks are what works best with my summertime work.

[bobcat_ron]

The 257B2 is a better machine than the older B's and the Alpha models, updates to the hydraulics and the biggest improvement is the planetaries in the drive motors, that was one of the biggest beef's people had the with the 257's, it really was a dog to turn with one track.

[KPS]

You should try out an ASV PT 70. we are very seriously considering buying one to replace our T 190. It's got about 10 more horses on a 257b2 and a much beefier U/C IMO. the visibility on these machines is quite excellent and i really think you should give it a look.

[bobcat_ron]

I doubt the ASV will fair better than the Cats.

[cat2]

Cat dealer just dropped off a new 247b2 to demo. Brougt over my buddies 06t190 to do a little side by side comparison. The cat operates/rides like dream compared to the bobcat. My concern is the lack of lift of the 247. I understand radial vs vertical lift but when we stacked a couple of boulders on top of each other and tried to lift them the comparison stopped. The bobcat did it (fully lifted) at idle and the 247 at full throttle would not even curl them back off of the ground. Bobcat ron or others, my question is will the 247 lift a full pallet of wet sod or a full pallet of landscape blocks off the back of the delivery truck???

We will continue to compare over the weekend, but have only snow to play in and can't do dirt comparisons.

Any feed back appreciated.






Just make sure you let us know how it goes

[BIGBEN2004]

You should try out an ASV PT 70. we are very seriously considering buying one to replace our T 190. It's got about 10 more horses on a 257b2 and a much beefier U/C IMO. the visibility on these machines is quite excellent and i really think you should give it a look.
I feel the visibility is much better in the Cats. You can actually look out your side windows and see the front,top,and rear parts of the tracks. Try doing that in a ASV. That is the biggest beef I have with them.

[KPS]

Yes the side visibility is not quite as good thats true but out back its better and you sit higher up it seems than in other ctl's. I guess it all depends on the application you use it most often in. We are in really tight access ways between houses so if my bucket goes through an opening a know the rest of my machine will too, i rarely look out the side if i'm moving foreward, i'm more concerned with seeing out front or back of me. Another thing that i like about the PT 70 is the fact there is no guage clusters up on the left or right to obstruct your view, we load trucks mostly so the extra open glass is nice for us. Everyone has their own preferences though.

[Digdeep]

I doubt the ASV will fair better than the Cats.

It might be worth a try. It is true that the visibility to the side is not the best on the market but the visibility to the bucket and the rear is pretty good. The SR70 also has a 2750lb ROC, comes standard with high flow, is the same width as the 257, has 15 inches of ground clearance, hasa bigger displacement engine (same as the 277 and 297) that is turbo charged 70hp, and has a lift height to pin of 125 inches. Only a demo will tell you if it will or won't work in the applications you do. Good luck.

[KPS]

Ron im not saying the ASV will be better in every category, no one machine is, but for the same weight as the 257 the ASV has a far bigger U/C. the footprint is 71 inches long vs. the 257 which is 59 inches long. The more spread out the weight is, the less wear on the tracks and rollers i would think.:) A demo will tell the buyer what specs and features best suit the jobs he does.

[BIGBEN2004]

The ASV has a lighter foot print with the more track area on the ground. How do they compare to Cat when it comes to price? What is a good price to pay for a new Posi Track PT70 with cab,air,heat........and a new Cat 257BII with cab,air,heat..........?

[yardworkslawncare]

Had a chance to do a little more "testing" yesterday. I really like the controls of the cats. I am very, very comfortable in the acs controlled bobcat so there is still a learning curve. We picked up two 3sq rolls of sod with each machine so I answered my own question about unloading a pallet of sod, It will do it. We then added a third roll to the top. The cat would not budge it. The t190 would lift it about 8inches off the ground. The next step we started out with the 2 rolls in the air at approx truck height and used the other machine to set the third roll on top. The cats hydraulics collapsed as the back of the machine came up. In doing the same to the t190 It held the rolls in place and could curl them back. In fairness the t190 does have a counterweight package on it, BUT, the hydraulics held and could do some movement. (I know radial vs vertical lift) Other than the lifting, we put on a 84in light material bucket and moved snow drifts. This is where the cat put on a show compared to the bobcat. We did the test you all have seen where the put an asv 50 vs t250. The cat had its way with the t190 in a 6in snow covered field. I am going back to the dealer tomorrow to se about getting some time in a 257. The $3k increase is going to make the $$ spread between the t190 and 257b2 hard to swallow.

[bobcat_ron]

Cat's hydraulics are set so they won't lift more than their 50% tipping weight, I really like that idea, less chance of really screwing up with all that weight on the front.

[KPS]

I really found a huge "dead zone" in the lift circuit of our T190, so sometimes it will lift an incredible load...........but only 1 foot or so off the ground, ok for moving around a job site but no good to stack a pallet of blocks. In response to the prices of a PT 70, the dealer is dollar for dollar with a 257B2. The dealer tells me that they compare a 257B2 to a PT 60 even though the lift capacities and lift height are fairly different so we are getting more machine in the 70 so price wise the 70 is a better value especially with the standart high flow hydraulics. A loaded CAT or ASV with A/C, heat, hydraulic bucket positioning, hydraulic attachment plate, clam bucket is coming in at $54,000 CAN. The only tough part about which is better for us is wether we definitly must have vertical lift or not. We can get a special bucket for the PT 70 that will compensate for this and extend our dumping height though. The lift height of the ASV certainly is a nice feature cause Tri-axle dumps in Ontario are so stinkin tall that a medium framed ctl with a hinge pin height of 119 inches or so will just clear the side boards by a few inches. I know the ASV might be a little rougher around the edges than a CAT but there is some features that make it a very tough decision which is better.

[bobcat_ron]

You're getting a smoking deal on the Cat, that's what I would have payed without my trade in!!!!!

[mrsops]

i have lifted a pallet of allen block off my trucks with my t190 now they say those pallets weigh well over 4000 lbs!! now it wont lift it back on the truck but the machine only has a roc of 1900. sod is a joke my t190 lifts sod with no problem

[KPS]

Yeah i think the price is right:canadaflag:. The dealer here in ottawa has been after us for about 4 years to jump to CAT. He is also giving us a 4 year undercarriage warranty on the entire undercarriage except for the tracks. ASV is also giving us the same warranty. We need to make our descision soon cause our season is about to start and we need to get the machine ordered.

[mrsops]

Yeah i think the price is right:canadaflag:. The dealer here in ottawa has been after us for about 4 years to jump to CAT. He is also giving us a 4 year undercarriage warranty on the entire undercarriage except for the tracks. ASV is also giving us the same warranty. We need to make our descision soon cause our season is about to start and we need to get the machine ordered.

KPS ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR T190

[KPS]

KPS ARE YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR T190

Much like BC Ron we have a laundry list of repairs done to it, some under warranty others not. Most notably a drive motor went out Sept this year with 1150 hrs. The machine was out of warranty but we thought with so few hours in five years Melroe would have cut us some slack but they basically said screw you, pay the whole bill yourself. The dealer cut us a break on labor but the bill was still $4000;). It goes to the dealer for absolutely everything but aparently no amount of preventative maintenance could keep this machine off the job board in the shop. It was plagued with electrical issues from day one, heck in the first 200 hrs. it was in the shop every 10:cry:. Our salesman has always been a pr*ck and we don't want to deal with him again. Sorry for the rant but we have been less than impressed with this unit. Now on the contrary we have 2 463's and those are the most bulletproof little work horses we have. these are our second set and we love them, bobcat makes a wicked little compact unit and we run these day in day out basically problem free.

[bobcat_ron]

Yeah i think the price is right:canadaflag:. The dealer here in ottawa has been after us for about 4 years to jump to CAT. He is also giving us a 4 year undercarriage warranty on the entire undercarriage except for the tracks. ASV is also giving us the same warranty. We need to make our descision soon cause our season is about to start and we need to get the machine ordered.


4 year U/C warranty minus the tracks? Where did I miss the boat on that? I'll have to check my contract on that, mine was standard 2 year on machine with 1 year on U/C with the goofy hour meter split cost to the customer.

[KPS]

4 year U/C warranty minus the tracks? Where did I miss the boat on that? I'll have to check my contract on that, mine was standard 2 year on machine with 1 year on U/C with the goofy hour meter split cost to the customer.

I just worked the salesman for about two weeks, I told him i loved the machine but didn't trust the undercarriage to stand up to what we do with it. With a little prodding he came back to us and said they will warranty the U/C for four years since thats how long we keep our machines. Like I said this salesman has been after us for 4 years to run a CAT.

[ksss]

Much like BC Ron we have a laundry list of repairs done to it, some under warranty others not. Most notably a drive motor went out Sept this year with 1150 hrs. The machine was out of warranty but we thought with so few hours in five years Melroe would have cut us some slack but they basically said screw you, pay the whole bill yourself. The dealer cut us a break on labor but the bill was still $4000;). It goes to the dealer for absolutely everything but aparently no amount of preventative maintenance could keep this machine off the job board in the shop. It was plagued with electrical issues from day one, heck in the first 200 hrs. it was in the shop every 10:cry:. Our salesman has always been a pr*ck and we don't want to deal with him again. Sorry for the rant but we have been less than impressed with this unit. Now on the contrary we have 2 463's and those are the most bulletproof little work horses we have. these are our second set and we love them, bobcat makes a wicked little compact unit and we run these day in day out basically problem free.


I have never owned a T190 only rented them. My thoughts were that they were a POS. It is interesting talking to most guys that owned them that they don't stay together very well either. It is even more interesting is that I will bet this is BC's best selling tracked machine. I am not sure how many repeat customers this machine sees but I see more of them than any other model of BC tracked machine. Are they all this poor of a machine (build quality) or do we just hear from the machines that have issues?

[mrsops]

i have owend 2 t190s my first one back in 2002 i traded in with 2000 hrs on it. it had its problems the reason why i went with another t190 because the salesman said they fixed all those lil problems that the older one had i now own a 2005 t190 that has almost 1400 hrs on it now and it seems to be holding up great.. i would say out near me theres about 15-20 differnt companies that all own either a t190 t250 or t300

[KPS]

I have never owned a T190 only rented them. My thoughts were that they were a POS. It is interesting talking to most guys that owned them that they don't stay together very well either. It is even more interesting is that I will bet this is BC's best selling tracked machine. I am not sure how many repeat customers this machine sees but I see more of them than any other model of BC tracked machine. Are they all this poor of a machine (build quality) or do we just hear from the machines that have issues?

KSSS many guys i see with one have probs. not surprisingly the SJC machines are opening a whole new can of worms. When we got one it was cause it was really one of only a couple out on the market in our area, plus we thought "HEY ITS A BOBCAT IT HAS TO BE THE BEST!!!" Wrong. I know some guys on here have had great sucess with the T190 and will buy another one but our machine was a lemon from day one and has jaded our view or the Bobcat ctl line. I wish we had the luck that mrsops has with our T190. Maybe then we would be looking at a new one. Just a side note, the Bobcat salesman was gonna give us a Gold package 08 T190 loaded loaded for $49999 0% for four years.

[mrsops]

there going for 46,000 here with all the goodies 0% for 42 months

[KPS]

there going for 46,000 here with all the goodies 0% for 42 months

my price is in canadian $. Thats going rate for a medium frame CTL here.

[stuvecorp]

The one good thing about either of these machines is cost of maintenance has to start pushing up how much people charge.

[KPS]

The one good thing about either of these machines is cost of maintenance has to start pushing up how much people charge.

We don't hire out our machine, so we can't charge more per hour. Our machine is for personal use on our sites and its hard to get extra for a ctl cause the home owner doesn't care how you get the dirt out of the back yard they just want it done. Once the contract is signed most don't care if you use a wagon and a teaspoon.:laugh: