Stolen Equipment - what would you do?

[Jason Pallas]

My second crew had a 5hp Giant Vac stolen from the job site this week. All 3 guys walked in the backyard for 2 minutes (idiots) - and it was gone. Here's my dilema. It's the 5 or 6th piece of equipment that this crew has lost this year. The first couple of trimmers and stick edgers I paid to replace. This blower was about $450.
The crew consists of a crew chief that is paid about $700 for 30hrs and 2 other workers that make about $300 ea a week.
I told them the blower would have to be replaced - whether they found the stolen blower (yeah - good luck in Detroit!), purchased a comparable used one (hard to find) or bought a new one.
They're all quite indignant as they feel "it wasn't their fault". The crew chief has been with me for 3 years but the other two have only been here for a couple of months and this IS the first piece of equipment that they've lost. The other stuff went missing earlier in the year.
Here's my questions to you, my fellow LCOs:
Is it unreasonable for them to be accountable for the replacement of this blower?
If so, what percentage should each pay? (i.e: 100% crew chief, 33% each, more for the guy that left the trailer unattended, 50% crew chief and 25% for ea. of the others).

Your input is greatly appreciated as the wife (co-owner) and I have been fighting like mad over this. Thanks

[stick9]

Decide for yourself if these three people are worth the cost of the missing/stolen equipment. If they are, tell them "the next one is on you" obviously meaning that anything else that is 'missing/stolen/lost/blown up/confiscated' is THEIR responsibility ...

if they aren't worth it, charge 'em for it! I would say 50% crew chief [since you're paying him to be responsible for YOUR stuff], 25/25 for the other guys. You should tell them that you will take a certain percentage out of their checks until the debt is payed in full. And if they won't pay,it's unfortunately time to hit the want ads.

Where are you in the detroit area?


StiCk-Nine

[keifer]

That is a hard one did you tell the cheif up front that he was responable for theaft or lost tools. Where the workers aware of this. Did you have insurance?

[Jason Pallas]

Eastside - Harper Woods, Grosse Pointes, etc... it was stolen 11/5 on the far northeast side - (Cadieux and 1-94 area).

No insurance for theft - I made the chief pay for the last $200 trimmer they lost (he admitted it was mostly his fault). I never explicitly made them aware that they'd be responsible - but after 5-6 pieces gone this year I thought they'd know their "freebies" quota had been met.

[General Grounds]

:blob3: if the crew left with the equipt. and did'nt return with whose fault do they think it is? If you shorted them 2 hours on their pay it would be your fault, maybe not done on purpose but still your fault and your problem to fix.
Had this happen about 5 years ago, guys did'nt come in with a backpack, 3 guys on the crew i asked were it was nobody knew and i told them they bought me a new blower.
Since, i think we may have lost a shovel, the reason being is i inventoried each piece of equip. and made a sign-out sheet. I let them know that if the equipt. does'nt match there sheet they are responsible, i think the missing tools will come to an end T



P.S. if anyone would like a copy of my sign-out sheet just e-mail me your fax # and will be happen to send, and help you get started.

[keifer]

One other little tidbit I have a trimmer trap on my trailer that locks plus they make alot of stuff to lock up your tools like backpacks and so on.

[thelawnguy]

"My second crew had a 5hp Giant Vac stolen from the job site this week. "

The thief did you a favor. Now you have the opportunity to replace that small-frame homeowner unit with a mid-frame commercial 8hp or 11hp that will improve productivity.

[kutnkru]

JP it sounds to me like someone is doing just that "confiscating" your equipment to save themselves the cost of the machinery.

I would almost guarantee that they have also (a). stolen 50-60 ft of line at a clip to stockpile in their own garage to fill those empty circular dispensers (b). refurbished your trimmers (c). and stick edger ,,,

Seriously sounds to me as though they are going to nickle and dime you out of the necessary hand helds needed for their own outfit. I bet they figured the wheeled blower was a better grab this late in the season than your bp.

I would do some serious searching and then do some deadly ass-kickin.

I also agree with Bill that you now have the opportunity for better equipment, however this is not the best way of going about it I will agree with you there.

Good luck my friend.
Kris

[Chuck Sinclair]

You might want to check your laws in your state, here in ca we can NOT charge them for it unless the sign a statement saying we can deduct from their pay.

[a1 lawncare]

whenever i purchase a new piece of equipment i engrave stolen from my name/biz name , even on the blowers in the plastic, on the shaft, where ever, also in several places, it takes time and it does not stop the stealling, it does however slow it down, can you imagine the sick sob using the equipment for personel use, man i hate a thief. i don't understand a thiefs mind but maybe just maybe seeing the name/company name he realizes selling this, what seams to be machine that has just been run because its so warm, won't be so easy..


good luck man i hope your stuff shows back up,

keith

[tslawn]

Many insurance companies do not insure for theft that was not under "lock & key". And....there's an aweful lot of theft that occurs "inter-company"...meaning that we had some of our own employees steal from us. If you've had that much equipment disappear I'd make somebody pay for it. Your foreman should be the most resposible person on the job you have, so ultimately I believe he bears the burden of making sure your equipment makes it back onto the trailer/truck when you're done, as well as safe-guarding that nothing happens to it while en-route, unloading and working, etc.

[cos]

I would make the person that was in charge that crew be responsible. When you give someone responsiblities, that is definitely one of them.

[Dochere]

I'm with cos, but I do believe that you have to make responsibilities known to your employees before enforcing the consequences. It is just as much your responsibility to lay down the law as it is for your employees to live up to it.

[Got Grass?]

You said it was the 5th or 6th pice of equipment this crew lost this year alone? and the only crew leader has been w/ the crew the whole time?
Sound like you are either in a really bad hood or the leader is planing to start his own thing for free. What else was stolen this year?
If that much was stolen then I think I would come down extremely hard on this person, as he isnt watching and taking care of your equip. I would try and find a way to check out his garage/yard for the missing euqip. Just sounds bit weird to me as so much is missing this year and he hasnt done anything to stop it. How did thay tell you it was missing? If thay didnt tell and you noticed on your own its a big problem. Either way, something sounds kinds fishey.... Whats next, the mowers?

[Richard Martin]

I go along with Sinclac on this one. Here in Maryland it is against the law to make an employee replace anything, whether it be money, tools etc., that comes up missing. What I would do is replace the blower and the foreman at the same time. At 5 or 6 losses in one year this foreman doesn't have your best interests in mind.

[65hoss]

The workers are just that, workers. But the crew leader is the responsible party. You pay him to be responsible. You problem is not equipment being stolen, its a management problem with your leadership. If you have certain standards such as all equipment being locked down when not in use, then the crew leader didn't manage his people correctly to keep it locked. If you don't require this, and you have shown them in the past a hap-hazard way of handling equipment then you are to blame for lack of management.

This is not to place blame on you or anyone, its to show that most problems start at the top with management. What level of management it starts at is up to you to figure out.

[cos]

I think this equpment may have got sold and the other employees got a hush, hush fee.

5,6 in a year is a little much. After the second piece of equipment, I would start to blame the owner for not making have to pay. I don't think anything would have been lost after that day!

[Jason Pallas]

I defintely agree that I am at least partly to blame by not coming down harder and sooner on this crew. My leadership here was not good at all - I should have set an example/precedent at the second piece.
I'm almost certain that the crew chief and the crew didn't take any of this. They're pretty straight/honest guys - just careless. What I do think contributes to this is that there have been no consequences up to recently. If they lost something - the result was the got a brand new replacement - More of a reward than a punishment. I'm pretty certain that some of the trimmers/stick edgers weren't locked down and bounced off the truck or trailer or got left on the jobsite. Problem is that the crew chief is salaried and (without monetary consequences) his motivation to spend an extra hour looking for the stuff is zero - as it decreases his profitability (more hours on the job). So, despite the fact they tell me that they looked for a long time, I bet they only went around the block once and moved on. For this reason (and many more) salary doesn't work and I won't be using it next year.

[awm]

hate to say it bud but thats the world we live in.
have a meeting of all employees . state the problem an
any efforts u want them to make to prevent theft.
just about impossible without hiring somebody to just prevent theft.there always the possibility of employee theft.
pay for this one and let them know u cant keep paying so
at least part of the next one is on them.
wish there was a real answer,but like i say thats the world we live in. mabe a dog is the answer. i know a fella whos big black dog stays in his truck all the time. believe me u do not get near that truck. good luck ,we all need it now days. later

[plymouthvaliant73]

Originally posted by sinclac
You might want to check your laws in your state, here in ca we can NOT charge them for it unless the sign a statement saying we can deduct from their pay.


Originally posted by Richard Martin
I go along with Sinclac on this one. Here in Maryland it is against the law to make an employee replace anything, whether it be money, tools etc., that comes up missing. What I would do is replace the blower and the foreman at the same time. At 5 or 6 losses in one year this foreman doesn't have your best interests in mind.

The same in Massachusetts - you cannot deduct this from their pay. You can be liable for triple damages if you do. You can ask them to pay voluntarily and fire them if they don't. But do not just arbitrarily take it out of their pay. Whatever you decide to do make sure it is legal.

It seems to me unfair to hold them responsible if this was not an established policy that they agreed to at the time of hire.

[cos]

Salary would work if you also included personal responsiblity. I am not telling you are wrong or right, but if he is held accountable for lost equipment, then he would take better care of equipment and instill physical security. When the cash drawer came up short at the gas station, we had a weaker check the next week.

[the point man]

It's always hard to say what you'd do until it happens to you, but
I think I'd charge the crew chief 50% and the other two 25% and
stick to my guns.

[Albemarle Lawn]

It seems like you are in a high-theft area, or maybe you are just unlucky. Either way you should insure your stuff.

Even if you have a written agreement that your workers must pay for missing stuff, how would you collect a large chunk of change if something expensive went missing?

And how would you get back into business quickly without insurance?

Insurance may be expensive but in your case it seems like even high premiums would be a bargain.

Ken

[bdemir]

Warn them that if it happens again that they are responsible. That you are tired of paying for lost or stolen eThere is no reason for getting things stolen when you have so many guys on the crew. Lock things down and make sure everyone has a key that way if something gets stolen next time its gets divided up evenly into everyones pay unless someone knows whats up. Thats just too many in 0ne year. Unless they work far from the trailer there is no reason for it in my eyes. I worked in oakland county MI and nothing ever was missing for 2.5 years of lawn care. I always kept a watch on everything and parked in high visiblily. Detroit is not good for that kind of stuff. I know an old couple that lost their whole truck and trailer and equipment inside with no insurance. Its a shame that it happens.



Bedros

[Runner]

I don't know, but something tells me that ig you finf that blower, you'll find the rest of your equipment, too.

[Turfdude]

Jason and others,

A few tips to help somewhat.


1. Set up an equip. maintenance page w/ each piece purchased and record purchase date, price, model # and serial number.

2. Engrave company name and equipmet id number (add id# to step 1 above)

3. Make sure you hve an equpmet floater on your insrance policy w/ a low deductible. (you should only want to hve asmall amoun minly fo smaller items such as blowers,trimmers, power pruners, stick edgers, hedge hears, chain saws,etc... basically anythg which can quickly be lifted and concealed)!

4. Instruct entire staff, especially crew chiefs and foreman to try t stay in eyesight ofequipment, or if theyare in back yards for extended periods of time to take equipoment back with them.

5. Finally, ad hope it doesn'tcome to this, if somethingdoes get stolen, file police report and give al info especially stuff contained in #1 above!!!

Yes, I too had 2 pairs of backpack blowers stolen. Fall in late 90's and fall last year-- hd escriptio ofcarand 2 suspects, but no tag #.

Hop this helps.

[geogunn]

fire this whole crew.:angry:

send them down the road kicking cans and you will be money ahead next year. think about it.

aint no way you are gonna recoup your cost. and if you try to make them pay for their indifference with the company equipment, they are gonna resent you.

clean break is the only answer!

GEO

[Chopper Lover]

I hate a thief! :angry:

Call the cops and file a report. In most states the theft of that machine constitutes a felony.

Sounds like you have probably lost a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment. I think you should inform the Investigator of the "pattern" your crew chief has established by being involved in all the incidents of theft and let them do an investigation. Hard to say what may turn up... They may, or may not, find things you didn't even know where missing.


Good Luck!
Mark

[yardsmith]

Boy thats a tough call-
I'd give the crew leader some incentive- he has 1 week to find it or come up with 1/2 of the cost of a new one, since he was in charge of keeping an eye on things. And esp. since this is lost item #5 or 6!!!!!!!!!
Put your foot down this time. Unless you enjoy doling out $$$.

[Green Care]

Well, Jason I'll hold the crew captain liable for that.

It would be real surprising if you could get a search warrant!!!........................

[HBFOXJr]

In those states where it is illegal to make an employee reimburse losses what happens if a register drawer comes up short? I thought it was pretty acceptable/common in retail that the short came out of their pay check.

I'm worried about his crew leader. What do you know about him and how long has he been with you? Did you eport this stuff to the cops. If not I would. I woul;d have them interview the crew.

I've had inside problems. Get rid of who ever stinks and your problems go away too.

[Got Grass?]

Cant make them pay out of register either.
Only way you can make an employee pay is if you both agree to it in writing.
If its an accident or screw up then you take the loss, only option is to fire him.

If you can prove the employee broke the law or employment terms, and did it intentionally then he pays. Usually then you have to involve the police and/or courts.

Report the loss to the police promptly, and inform them about your crew and other things have turned up missing. Thay may want to question him as part of the investigation. Good luck as the police wont do much if anything except take a report and put it on file. Unless you give them something to go on.