Track damage photos

[ksss]

I took these at a CAT dealer in Utah last month. I don't how many hours it had. They were not nice hours though. The little grader I thought was very cool.

[cat2]

That grader thing in the last pic. is neat, never seen anything like that before

[bobcat_ron]

The tracks still look good though, but the owner should have aluminum or steel idlers on the rear end though, that rubber is sure rounded off.

[ksss]

The tracks still look good though, but the owner should have aluminum or steel idlers on the rear end though, that rubber is sure rounded off.


I found the rounding of the rubber on the rollers intersting as well. My wife took the pictures and she missed the front shot I wanted. The tracks have a line down the middle where they were down to the cords. The tracks were shot. The rollers were pitted bad with big chunks of rubber out of them.

That grader can be set up to be laser machine controlled according to the salesman. PSI also makes a tandem rear machine that would be perfect for my operation. Pretty impressive little grader. I saw one like in the picture go through at auction in Wa. for 30K some years back. I bid it 25K. I wish I had got it. I am sure these are much more.

[BIGBEN2004]

I would say that machine did allot of work dealing with stone. Stone will wear the rollers down quick and if running in rocky conditions and spin the tracks it will cut a groove all the way around the tracks.

[KTM]

Cat MTL's are slick looking machines, but there system reminds me to much of a snowmobile, look's very complicated.

[bobcat_ron]

Cat MTL's are slick looking machines, but there system reminds me to much of a snowmobile, look's very complicated.

All my customers say the ASV system is pretty straight forward, all the bolts are easy to see and replace, the CTL's look complicated to them.

[qps]

They have a service bullentin out of some of the first ones off the line, the rubber did not bond to the wheel's properly and CAT is replacing...I've had a few chucks come off of mine, since replacement no problems....yet....

[bobcat_ron]

Are the wheels steel or plastic, mine make a sound reminiscent of plastic when I tap them with my poking stick.

[qps]

Are the wheels steel or plastic, mine make a sound reminiscent of plastic when I tap them with my poking stick.

Steel with rubber bonded around the outside dia.

[Fieldman12]

I like everything about the Cat's except that undercarriage. I think if I was getting one I would order the skid steer and add the VTS setup to it. I was just reading an advertisement a few weeks ago from Deere and it mentioned the ASV/Cat undercarriage was adopted from snow country. They may ride nice but they sure are not cheap to run.

[bobcat_ron]

Well it works sure darn nice for me, better floation, ride and final grading.

[ksss]

Well it works sure darn nice for me, better floation, ride and final grading.


Man you 47.6 hours on it. I am sure it rode nice from the delivery trailer to your shop but what about after you have spent a day in it? :drinkup:

[bobcat_ron]

Man you 47.6 hours on it. I am sure it rode nice from the delivery trailer to your shop but what about after you have spent a day in it? :drinkup:

5 full days, 2 half days, and the meter reads 50.1 hrs. I got 1 week in the sand backfilling in a Bank next month, and sodding and soil prep work in April with road grinding on the side for utilities/RV Park.

[stuvecorp]

I saw a grader like that with a snowpusher in Lacrosse, wish I could have got pics of that. It did have a full cab.

[ksss]

I saw a grader like that with a snowpusher in Lacrosse, wish I could have got pics of that. It did have a full cab.

I looked them up on the net and a cab is an option. Probably a good idea in this area. I am hoping these guys are at ConExpo I want to talk to them.

[stuvecorp]

I think in Machinery Trader and Rock and Dirt sometimes there is one for sale. If you are going to do alot of concrete or parking lot prep, how much more production could you get compared to a skid with laser grader?

I was surprised at the one plowing snow, I usually have the market covered in unique equipment.

[ksss]

I think in Machinery Trader and Rock and Dirt sometimes there is one for sale. If you are going to do alot of concrete or parking lot prep, how much more production could you get compared to a skid with laser grader?

I was surprised at the one plowing snow, I usually have the market covered in unique equipment.

I don't know how much more productive it would be exactly except in maybe getting large pads close so you could run faster with the skid steer laser grader. I think on parking lots it would be the ticket where you are running more complex grades to storm drains. The laser grader I am oh so close to pulling the trigger on will do dual plane but I don't see it being a big asset on parking lots with storm drains. That is still a grader application in my view.

[Digdeep]

I like everything about the Cat's except that undercarriage. I think if I was getting one I would order the skid steer and add the VTS setup to it. I was just reading an advertisement a few weeks ago from Deere and it mentioned the ASV/Cat undercarriage was adopted from snow country. They may ride nice but they sure are not cheap to run.

ASV made their first production rubber track construction machines in 1991 and had their prototype in the late 80s. I think they are well past their "snow country adoption"..typical Deere marketing spin.

[ksss]

ASV made their first production rubber track construction machines in 1991 and had their prototype in the late 80s. I think they are well past their "snow country adoption"..typical Deere marketing spin.

DigDeep you have heard the saying "you can have 20 years experience or 1 year experience 20 times". I am not sure that ASV has learned all that much about building durable undercarriages. They have mastered a nice easy riding undercarriage, a quiet undercarriage, and a large foot print. They just need to work on the durable side.:)

[bobcat_ron]

It's durable if you treat it right.

[Digdeep]

DigDeep you have heard the saying "you can have 20 years experience or 1 year experience 20 times". I am not sure that ASV has learned all that much about building durable undercarriages. They have mastered a nice easy riding undercarriage, a quiet undercarriage, and a large foot print. They just need to work on the durable side.:)

I'm not saying they are perfect but who makes a perfect undercarriage or machine for that matter. I sold over 200 Bobcat tracked machines from the first 864s to T300s and I definitely don't or didn't see any significant advantages over the ASV machines in the majority of applications (and all of the others undercarriages are very very similar with most using the same bridgestone track with the exception of Takeuchi). I will certainly agree with you that there are those applications where the steel rollers offer an advantage but those applications also seriously reduce the track life as well). I think that ASVs 24 month track warranty on both ther original and all replacement tracks in the future is an example of something that ASV may know about how long their tracks are lasting that maybe we don't. I know that Bobcat doesn't or didn't offer a factory warranty like that on their replacement tracks. I'm curious what the others are doing. By the way...I like your saying on experience.

[Gravel Rat]

One of the paving companies has one of those graders I had a look at theirs it is a nice little machine. Has a 4 cylinder 3.9 Cummins in it. Those graders are good for driveways. They use theirs for utility work.

[Ausman]

I have an SR80 with the same undercarriage as the Cat in the pictures. You cannot use that carriage in Ballast, or large sharp rock. that wouls slice tyres as well. The railway tracks down the centre indicate over tension on the tracks, you need to run those tracks as loose as you can with out them ratcheting. simmilar to a tyre if you overinflate it it will wear in the centre. There was a contractor here with that exact same Cat machine that got 45hrs out of the whees in 20mm rock ballast. Cat did not even have the wheels and he asked me for some hahaha.

[ksss]

I have an SR80 with the same undercarriage as the Cat in the pictures. You cannot use that carriage in Ballast, or large sharp rock. that wouls slice tyres as well. The railway tracks down the centre indicate over tension on the tracks, you need to run those tracks as loose as you can with out them ratcheting. simmilar to a tyre if you overinflate it it will wear in the centre. There was a contractor here with that exact same Cat machine that got 45hrs out of the whees in 20mm rock ballast. Cat did not even have the wheels and he asked me for some hahaha.

I bet the owner wished he had been a little wiser on the track tension and application of the MTL. Maybe Rockset can take a trip to Wheeler and find out the story on that machine. I wish I could have got inside to see the hours.

[Construct'O]

Explain how the bogie wheels come off.It looks like they are on assemblies of four with the inside set being hard to get too.I take it they come off so you can get then out to replace,without laying under the machine too get to the inside set.

Looks to be 16 small bogies and 8 idler wheels:dizzy: So do you have to have the tracks off to change out all the wheels and idlers?

Looks time consuming to me,plus where do you stop and start replacing.Does it do any good to move them from front to rear.

On a dozer you can move rollers and idlers around from front to rear to get longer wear.Same also goes for sprockets you can switch side to sideand wear on the other side of the sprocket teeth.

With that said the unspended CTL machines you could at least gain a few extra hours on there system if you really wanted to put the time in rotating things. Is anyone doing this? Like all dozer i'm sure there is a wear point to rotate.

Does anyone think they would or will try this? Or is it a waste of time?

Steel rollers and steel idlers, and sprocket machine seems too be a better option for abuse and wear.:usflag:

[bobcat_ron]

Explain how the bogie wheels come off.It looks like they are on assemblies of four with the inside set being hard to get too.I take it they come off so you can get then out to replace,without laying under the machine too get to the inside set.

Looks to be 16 small bogies and 8 idler wheels:dizzy: So do you have to have the tracks off to change out all the wheels and idlers?


Jack the machine up on all 4 corners, de-tension the track enough that it sags free of all the rollers by an inch, then just pull/push the bogie assembly up/down to access the bolts that hold the rollers on the bogie assemblies.
The old ASV U/C's were a real PITA to get the rollers off.

[stuvecorp]

Jack the machine up on all 4 corners, de-tension the track enough that it sags free of all the rollers by an inch, then just pull/push the bogie assembly up/down to access the bolts that hold the rollers on the bogie assemblies.
The old ASV U/C's were a real PITA to get the rollers off.

Yah, our Polaris is in the shop and we can not get the bogies off. Have a leaking drive motor that doesn't want to be fixed. I am not loving the undercarriage too much right now.

[Construct'O]

Still wondering.With machine jacked up,does the undercarriage drop down enough to get to the wheels or what.Do you have to be under the machine to get too the inside wheels,because by the picture the wheel bolts are facing the inside of the machines frame or body.

With the machine setting on the ground doesn't look to be much room between the frame and inside wheels to get too the bolts to take them off?

That is why i was wondering if the assemblies of wheels unbolted from the roller frame then you could replace wheel off the machine then reassemble the wheels as a unit?

Need pictures Ron?:confused::usflag:

[Digdeep]

Explain how the bogie wheels come off.It looks like they are on assemblies of four with the inside set being hard to get too.I take it they come off so you can get then out to replace,without laying under the machine too get to the inside set.

Looks to be 16 small bogies and 8 idler wheels:dizzy: So do you have to have the tracks off to change out all the wheels and idlers?

Looks time consuming to me,plus where do you stop and start replacing.Does it do any good to move them from front to rear.

On a dozer you can move rollers and idlers around from front to rear to get longer wear.Same also goes for sprockets you can switch side to sideand wear on the other side of the sprocket teeth.

With that said the unspended CTL machines you could at least gain a few extra hours on there system if you really wanted to put the time in rotating things. Is anyone doing this? Like all dozer i'm sure there is a wear point to rotate.

Does anyone think they would or will try this? Or is it a waste of time?

Steel rollers and steel idlers, and sprocket machine seems too be a better option for abuse and wear.:usflag:

I have heard of guys rotating their wheels around and I have also been told that you can do it without removing the tracks but I'd have to look at one again or ask an owner how its done.

[Digdeep]

Yah, our Polaris is in the shop and we can not get the bogies off. Have a leaking drive motor that doesn't want to be fixed. I am not loving the undercarriage too much right now.

I have a buddy that originally owned one of the Polaris RC30s and now owns an ASV RC30. and its a big difference. The ASV has different bearings on the front and rear idlers, different sprocket and different drive motors with an internal brake similar to my RC50. All you need to do to get the wheels off is loosen the track, pull the dust seal off by removing the snap ring and untighten the nut. All of the wheels can be replaced or removed without removing the track just like on my RC50. When I replaced the rear idlers it took me about 45 minutes to do both sides (4 wheels) and the machine was back on the ground off of the stands.

[Danish Cat technician]

We ( the company I work for ) have developed a grader system for MTL's.
Its just plug and play and you have yourself a grader.
They run it with Accugrade GPS or a laser system, and that controls the blade.

Its very stable and some customers have showed interest.

The picture below is "prototype 1". I will see, if I can find some other pictures.

[Dirt Digger2]

looks expensive...wouldn't it be cheaper to get a real dozer with laser grade if you do enough of that work?

looks interesting though

[Danish Cat technician]

It depends on the situation. It's main use would be bicycle paths, which there are a lot of here in Denmark. They are to narrow for a dozer.

I dont know anything about the price, but I have heard that it is not that bad.

Komatsu have also made a grader about the same size, but it can not be used for other things. That is the advantage of the skidsteer. The skidsteer could teorethically have a down time of almost zero.

Picture of the komatsu grader.

[Scag48]

That's the thing, if you already have a skid/MTL and want to do grading, spend $10K on the grader, you'd need a laser anyway regardless of dozer or mini grader, and you'd have a machine that could do other things when you're not grading. Skid steer grading is pretty popular in some places in the country.

[Dirt Digger2]

ahhh yes...bike paths, we don't have those over here in the states...but we have great drive-thru lanes at McDonalds :usflag::dizzy:

[Danish Cat technician]

Hehe we have those here too :)

hmm maybe I should go to the states and make bicycle paths. Since there is none, it would be a profitable and hopefully popular idea :rolleyes:

Scag48>> Precisly my point. Why not use the machines you have availible and get more attachments for them. It's always about maintaining a low downtime for the machine. It doesnt make money when its standing still :)

[ASCHAL45]

You should check out www.laser-grader.com

[ASCHAL45]

Kind of expensive but probably exactly what your lookin for.

[ksss]

Kind of expensive but probably exactly what your lookin for.

I could not find a price on the little grader. Did I miss it?

[ASCHAL45]

A company that sells them sent me some information and it was in the 50K to 60k range but it has all the lasers and is ready to go when you get i will look for there website for ya and get it on here

[ASCHAL45]

www.ManningEquipment.com
This is one of there dealers

[ksss]

A company that sells them sent me some information and it was in the 50K to 60k range but it has all the lasers and is ready to go when you get i will look for there website for ya and get it on here

WOW that is a lot of money for a 22 hp grader. I will check out the link.

[ASCHAL45]

I couldnt justify the price tag myself? I just dont do that much prep work or precision grading.

[ASCHAL45]

KSSS you might want to check this out as well www.minimightpatrol.com the base model is around 15k and with all the options probably about 25k.