Illegals

[cfrymow]

How are the illegals in your area. In my area every company out there is hiring them and prices are dropping and I can hardly keep up. Not trying to offend anyone but come on. :usflag:

[tb8100]

llegals are killing the economy.

[2fatguyslawncare]

llegals are killing the economy.

Being isolated in Maine is not ALWAYS a bad thing... This does not seem to be a problem here YET... except for during blueberry and potato season.

[2fatguyslawncare]

llegals are killing the economy.

Being isolated in Maine is not ALWAYS a bad thing... This does not seem to be a problem here YET... except for during blueberry and potato season.

[cfrymow]

Being isolated in Maine is not ALWAYS a bad thing... This does not seem to be a problem here YET... except for during blueberry and potato season.

Im moveing to maine :waving:

[Toy2]

Well in Texas we are getting the ones tossed out of Oklahoma, and Arizona....whatever New Mexico is doing is also pushing them down our throats...better learn spanish fast......

[SNAPPER MAN]

They dont work cheap here. Most day laborers wont work for less than $100 a day.

[capelawncare.com]

Our illegals down here used to only pick tomatoes.... Unfortunately that is no longer the case. They have taken over the green industry, and whats left of the construction trades.

During the Dem Debate the other night, one of the candidates was asked about immigration. ""HE" answered, We find to find a way for people to come to the united states legally.

Honest to god, that was Obama's answer. I guess La Raza, never told him, there actually is way to come here legally.

[ProStreetCamaro]

Your lucky if you even see somebody thats not hispanic on a mowing crew around here. Thats not to say they are all illegal but I am willing to bet that most of them are.

Example: 1 acre lawns being cut in this area for under $40. 2 acres for $60 or less. Its getting really bad here.

[SNAPPER MAN]

Wow. Prices are not going down here. If you do a good job you get work. La Raza is probably my favorite radio station. Noventa ocho punto cinco y ciento tres punto tres.

[TPLawnPro]

They're gonna starve here in Louisiana unless they get in on all of the drug trafficking and/or make a life out of stealing from our community, cause that's certainly what they're doing now. The illegals sure aren't contributing to our economy.

[echo8287]

They are taking over here too>painting,concrete,block, brick and stone laying,roofing,carpenters,sheetrock,landscaping,mowing,trim work etc.

Write to your idiots in our government. I have sent everyone of them in our state an E-mail. You will have to get them to pass legislation at the state level, cause we will get no help from the federal government any time soon. With HillarNOT, Osama, or Mc Pain there will be no relief. They have the moronic notion that the illegals are still picking fruit. They are picking our pockets increasing every day,paying no taxes,sending the money home.

Have yall seen the new ads for black folks saying that they are stealing their jobs at an alarming rate. I can remember about a year ago on TV, seeing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton backing up the rights of the illegals on a political show. Bet they have shrunk away from that now. The blacks and any legal immigrants need to get on board and start writing too. David

[TPLawnPro]

Texas DOT Vehicle stopped by an alert DPS Trooper on I-10 between San Antonio and Seguin , TX

[TPLawnPro]

Texas DOT Vehicle stopped by an alert DPS Trooper on I-10 between San Antonio and Seguin , TX

Herrrre's Johnny!!!

[Ground Scapes]

is that weed? if it is man hell of a traffic stop.

All the big landscaping companies are doing to help the United States ecomomy is bringing down the prices. They can do it though because they go to some third world country and get them green cards and fly them back to work for a year. i bet there are more than those with green cards on those planes though

[TPLawnPro]

is that weed? if it is man hell of a traffic stop.

All the big landscaping companies are doing to help the United States ecomomy is bringing down the prices. They can do it though because they go to some third world country and get them green cards and fly them back to work for a year. i bet there are more than those with green cards on those planes though

I'm not sure? But it sure does look like a helluva lot of illegal groceries.

[tb8100]

Texas DOT Vehicle stopped by an alert DPS Trooper on I-10 between San Antonio and Seguin , TX

whoaaa! mexican brown dope right there folks!! :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

[JimLewis]

Honestly; You wanna know what's killing our economy? :angry:

Spoiled rotten Nintendo brats with their gas scooters, top of the line clothing, laptops, razors, and pimped out hooptie rides whose parents buy everything for them and never taught them how to earn an honest dollar in their lives. So jobs that young people used to be willing to do (like SCAPIN', fast food, bailing hay, warehouse, etc.) - now they won't touch a "dirty" job like that. He||, their fathers don't even make them care for their own landscape most of the time. They prefer to sit around home all day and night playing Nintendo and messing around on MySpace until they're 20 years old or so.

90% of our youth have ZERO work ethic. They believe they're too good to get dirty or do any hard labor. And their damm parents perpetuate it! Mommy thinks it's just too hot for little Tommy to have to work outside in this heat. "Don't worry, Tommy. Here's some spending money. Go to the mall with your friends and have some fun. You don't have to do any of that messy work stuff."

All of you who are so against cheap immigrant labor I doubt have had much experience with the other kind. I would bet any of you that more legal american kids go through our company each year than you've ever had work for you in your company's entire lifespan. Oh, I'll still hire the guys. Still hoping maybe I'll find one with some heart and willingness to even just show up on a daily basis. I've tried paying them higher than normal wages for this area. I've tried everything. They simply don't want to do this kind of work. And it all goes back to how they were raised. You can't take a 22 year old whose never had to do a hard day of labor in his life and throw him into landscape construction or 10 hour days of maintenance. It's gonna fail every time! No matter what you pay! He ain't cut out for it!!!

But I wish they were. I wish you could still hire hard working American citizens to do the work we do. But unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last 10-20 years - you had to have noticed; THERE AIN'T TOO MANY LIKE THAT ANY MORE. THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON WHY EMPLOYERS RESORT TO USING IMMIGRANT LABOR!

It's not like 15 years ago all the employers were all making great profit, rolling in the dough, and then one day said to themselves, "You know what? We're making a good 15% profit margin right now. But dammit. I want to be richer. I bet if I hired some foreign immigrants who can't speak the language - I bet I could pay them waaaay less and then we'd be makin' 30% profit!!! "He||s bells, Mabel! I figured it out! We'z gonna be rich! I'm a firin' all these here white folk and hirin' me up some Mexicans!" payup

No! That didn't happen. What happened was as america started to prosper and families didn't need as much money coming in, parents decided youth shouldn't have to work until after they got out of college. And the more that happened, the more a void occurred. And we filled that void with the only people who WERE happy to do the work - immigrants.

So don't blame them for our economy. Blame lazy freakin' americans. Thank God my parents made me take hard manual labor jobs when I was a kid. The guy my mom was married to when I was growing up was the only orthepedic surgeon in the county. He was making over $300,000 a year back in the 80's. That was some serious dough! I didn't HAVE to work. But thank God my parents made me get manual labor jobs regardless. When I was 15, I spent the entire summer on my knees in my grandfather's nursery pulling weeds among the tree seedling rows for minimum wage - 40 hours a week - all freakin' summer. And you think it was easy because I was working for family? He|| no! My grandfather was an angry a-hole 90% of the time and took most of his frustrations out on family. It was tough freakin' work. But I always took on jobs like that growing up and throughout college. And I thank God and my parents for that. I learned two things from those experiences. I learned what I didn't want to do the rest of my life. But I also learned how to bust hump when the time comes.

Unfortunately, most parents don't do that any more. Heck, I'd be happy if parents just made their kids take a part time job bailing hay for half the summer. Just SOMETHING to teach them a little work ethic. But if you wanna blame someone -blame the lazy americans. We all want everything done for us for cheap. But we bemoan the very group of people who make it happen for us.



Unbelievable.


.

[cborden]

I agree with Jim.

[lifetree]

... During the Dem Debate the other night, one of the candidates was asked about immigration. "HE" answered, We find to find a way for people to come to the united states legally. Honest to god, that was Obama's answer. ...

It doesn't surprise me ... he's no different than any other politican who doesn't know what's really going on !!

[larryinalabama]

Illegals is a huge problem. Its hard to work around it. Im a one man operation so I advertise AMERICAN OWNED AND OPERATED. That helps because an 80 year old woman tends to be scared of someone running aroud the hopuse who doesnt speak english.

In my opinion the day has come where a mower and weed wacker wont cut it anymore. You need equiptment equiptment equiptment. Let your machinery make your money for you, Let the big companies deal with the headachs of the illagels

[sikagrass]

Now that the illegals are getting run out of Arizona etc, I wonder if LCO are going to get to raise their prices? Seems like they would.Had a kid going to college ask me for a job the other day-perfect english,clean cut, been living in the USA since he was 2.No social security number.Nope.On the other hand hispanics seem to be the only guys who can take the heat,tried white guys, when it gets to a heat index over a 100 they disapear.

[DLAWNS]

They are pretty bad here, all the big companies use them. I would be amused to see what would happen if they cracked down.

[Johnson LCO]

I was thinking about this a lot this morning before I saw this thread. Not only is it the illegals, but as Jim said there is a big problem with Americans. I dont really know about the lazy kids thing but I have seen SO many people mooching of hard working tax payers. I used to caddy when I was 12 to when I was 16 and everyone that was over 18 there was collecting cash and welfare. The boss I had for 2 years before I did landscaping owned his own business and his wife worked. He made "nothing" through the business and his wife was paid 24k with a 10k bonus at the end of the year to stay in the poverty bracket. The list goes on and on. Everyone wants a handout instead of working for it. My mother has been a teacher for almost 30 years. When she asks her students what they want to do, a large percentage of the girls reply "have children and go on welfare" and the guys have some other equally genius life plan. Every time I have to pay taxes it makes me wonder how many people that get money from me actually need it and who is supplementing their income at my expense.

[TPLawnPro]

Jim Lewis,

Great Post Man!!! Great Post Indeed!!!

This is also what is taking place in our neck of the woods. Perhaps you might be able to relate to this...

Teen escort policy keeps mall quiet
Link To Article:
http://www.nola.com/timespic/stories/index.ssf?/base/library-142/120374882851080.xml&coll=1

[2fatguyslawncare]

Honestly; You wanna know what's killing our economy? :angry:

Spoiled rotten Nintendo brats with their gas scooters, top of the line clothing, laptops, razors, and pimped out hooptie rides whose parents buy everything for them and never taught them how to earn an honest dollar in their lives.

Unfortunately, most parents don't do that any more. Heck, I'd be happy if parents just made their kids take a part time job bailing hay for half the summer. Just SOMETHING to teach them a little work ethic..

I have to say, my kids and thier future (Including learning the value of working....) is a big driver behind our new business.

[B_gerrits]

Honestly; You wanna know what's killing our economy? :angry:

Spoiled rotten Nintendo brats with their gas scooters, top of the line clothing, laptops, razors, and pimped out hooptie rides whose parents buy everything for them and never taught them how to earn an honest dollar in their lives. So jobs that young people used to be willing to do (like SCAPIN', fast food, bailing hay, warehouse, etc.) - now they won't touch a "dirty" job like that.
90% of our youth have ZERO work ethic. They believe they're too good to get dirty or do any hard labor.
All of you who are so against cheap immigrant labor I doubt have had much experience with the other kind. You can't take a 22 year old whose never had to do a hard day of labor in his life and throw him into landscape construction or 10 hour days of maintenance. It's gonna fail every time! No matter what you pay! He ain't cut out for it!!!

But I wish they were. I wish you could still hire hard working American citizens to do the work we do. But unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last 10-20 years - you had to have noticed; THERE AIN'T TOO MANY LIKE THAT ANY MORE. THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON WHY EMPLOYERS RESORT TO USING IMMIGRANT LABOR!

It's not like 15 years ago all the employers were all making great profit, rolling in the dough, and then one day said to themselves, "You know what? We're making a good 15% profit margin right now. But dammit. I want to be richer. I bet if I hired some foreign immigrants who can't speak the language - I bet I could pay them waaaay less and then we'd be makin' 30% profit!!! "He||s bells, Mabel! I figured it out! We'z gonna be rich! I'm a firin' all these here white folk and hirin' me up some Mexicans!" payup

No! That didn't happen. What happened was as america started to prosper and families didn't need as much money coming in, parents decided youth shouldn't have to work until after they got out of college. And the more that happened, the more a void occurred. And we filled that void with the only people who WERE happy to do the work - immigrants.

So don't blame them for our economy. Blame lazy freakin' americans.
.

Unfortantaly a lot of what Jim says is true. However I do think that is not just the lack of americian work ethic if that was true why is Mexicio such a s??t hole? Americian employers want the world and want to pay less than a living wage. At what cost, how much does it cost to educate their young? How much does it cost to give them tax paid medicial services? On the long term and in some places not so long term because some idiot says their children are legal citizens even if the parent is illegal will it be before they start putting their people in office and take over by attrition? there will never be any agreement on this issue here because the bigger outfits love them and the smaller guys hate them. To the bigger guys how long do you think it will be before they start putting their money together and start their own businesses and become your competition? we will see how much you love them then! Another cost of them is crime, here we are having all kinds of problems with Hispanic gangs, robberies, and drug running.

[packey]

Hey Jim Lewis you do not know half of what you are talking about. I am from texas I grew up their and I love the state. But the biggest problem is the moronic companies who have got used to hiring cheap labor and will only hire cheap labor. I am a white 29 year old who can not get a landscape job in many of these so called companies because I will want more than 7.25 an hour. I know to many kids who want to work in certain industries but they can't they are forced out because they do not speak the language and their skin is to light or to dark. I am sick and tired of the B.S. about not being able to find compentent workers so now let us hire the illegals. Grow up and look next door you might just find yourself a worker. the down side is he will want a decent wage and to many have gotten used to paying peanuts so they refuse to offer it. I am not speaking from opinion I am speaking from shear experience. The mentality that certain jobs are below a persons dignity is a load of manure and if we would teach and train these young adults that a job well done is nothing to hang your head in shame about we would be far better off.

[lot0210]

I was not allowed to work until I was 18. Then I got a job as an lumper for a trucking company . Then last year(I'm 22) I got a job on a golf course I was the only white guy there and I out worked any Mexican we had. Example lunch was 30 min They took an hour and a half. Jobs that took them 4-5 hr took me 3-3 1/2 hr so to say the least I was not impressed so all I can conclude from this is the only reason they are hired is for the low pay rate though I make more than some store managers $8.00/hr plus time and a half over time with 10-12 hrs over time a week. Course maybe I am a rare guy now days but I love the work I do.

[txgrassguy]

I agree completely with Jim.
My company is one of those "large LCO's" some posters are complaining about.
My response to that is after 172 employees, over 92% of which were WASP's, I damn near went out of business due to rampant theft, poor performance with subsequent lack of finished services, and drug use.
My crews consist of three white foremen and the remaining are Hispanic gentlemen.
I pay well above prevailing wage plus provide total reimbursement for uniforms, boots, socks, jackets while providing and enforcing the use of relevant safety gear.
I do see unlicensed LCO's in my area, both Caucasian and other races/creeds.
Does it both me?
Not one damned bit!
Why? - I'll tell you why.
Sell your business model properly and appropriately, alter your business to fit the demands of your target demographic, and learn how to run your business profitably and these "illegals" everyone is complaining about cease to be a problem.
Provided one is not capable of concise market positioning, one is doomed to compete with lowballers, scrubs, illegals, call 'em what you want - BUT YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO SEPARATE YOUR BUSINESS FROM THIS TYPE OF COMPETITION!
If I took my business from $60K gross my first year to over $600K in under eight years, you can too.
Simply acquire a business mindset, understand your market, and position your business accordingly, then you won't have the "illegal" competition anymore.

[B_gerrits]

Illegals is a huge problem. Its hard to work around it. Im a one man operation so I advertise AMERICAN OWNED AND OPERATED. That helps because an 80 year old woman tends to be scared of someone running aroud the hopuse who doesnt speak english.


Does the Americian owned and operated slogan generate more bus?

[jeffex]

but how is lazy americans a valid excuse for hiring illegals? How is it an excuse for looking the other way at suspect worker documents of people who can't or barely speak English. Is your business more important that the laws of this country? As long as YOU make a profit it's ok to undermine the sovrienty of the USA. Why not just grow and sell pot to sell to lazy americans? After all as long as your making money you can blame your illegal activity on someone else, right!

[packey]

I will say it again I do not agree with jim. I know to many more than 50 people who have had very difficult times getting hired in their areas of expertise. such as landscaping, carpentry and more becasue of cheap arrogant jerks who would refuse to hire anyone else but a hispanic. all becasue of a prevailing mentality that if you are white or black you are fat, and lazy . this is a bunch of b.s. their are many legal people wanting to work but stuck up arrogant company's will not even give them the time of day. Youmay think I am a little offf on this but I have been their myslef. I guess what really chaps me is this. When you find out a possible candidate might have a physical problem that would slow you down you pass them up. When you find out a possible candidate has had a checkered past you pass them up. When you find out a possible candidate might have to much experiene you pass them up. when you find out a candidate wants more than 7.00 per hour you pass them up. So basically all you have left to choose from are rich kids who have never had to work for anything or an illegal who will work for nothing. Quit your moaning and start looking you will find compitant legal workers who will make your head spin with productivity especially if you will pay them right. again you may not think i know what i am talking about but I have been their done that and I am sick and tire of hearing this mess I got so sick of it 9 years ago while in college I started out on my own with a wall mart weedeater an old warn out yazood that I used in high school and an electric bower all packed in bed of my patched together 78 dodge pickup. I went full time solo for several years then I switched to working for a school system. and headed up their grounds crew I left theri to persue my other passion preaching. and now I am back to running part time. If you do not think you can find workers let me know I will find them for you. and that is a promise.

[packey]

I should say I am sorry. I do not know what type of buisness men you are I am just sick and tire of hering the excusses that we can't find anyone legal to work for us. It is not true. I have heard it the last 10 years matter of fact it is why in some areas such as lubbock texas their are so many lco's and other small start up businesses. It is hard to find work unless you are a minority and not in the since of black or white. I had sevral good friencs I was in college with who felt the same way. ok we actually had a group that met their where like 100 of us and nearly all had had the same problems getting work. most where white some wher black. none where hispanic. All of us had grown up working for everything we had ever had nearly everyone of us was paying our own way through school. Several of us had a wife and kids to support I only had a wife untli 03 when our girl was born paid out of pocket for that as well making to much to get medicaid and not enough to afford health insurance. so when I hear people making these excusses it make my blood boil. I was told once why a company would not hire me and this trully could have landed them a lawsuit but i did not care to mess with it but it was because i did not see good enough. my vision is 20/80 I use a bioptic to ge a lic in most states. Oh well I took like 50 of his customers from him all because i did better work and my detail was far better than his. Hmm go figure like I said before look for the workers and you will find compitent legal workers. the catch is you will have to look for them. Oh and by the way I am out of the looking market I have hired two guys one white one black, and I promise you we will work circles around any crew of illegals you can throw at us

[B_gerrits]

The big difference is legal people need a living wage and will not do this kind of work for peanuts. I don't blame them I love this kind of work but would not work for any of the landscaping companies, would you? The real problem is not so much the illegals as if we were them we all would probably do the same thing. The real problem is the people who give them work. Companies and homeowners that hire illegals should be heavily fined. If the illegals cant find work they go away

[packey]

The big difference is legal people need a living wage and will not do this kind of work for peanuts. I don't blame them I love this kind of work but would not work for any of the landscaping companies, would you? The real problem is not so much the illegals as if we were them we all would probably do the same thing. The real problem is the people who give them work. Companies and homeowners that hire illegals should be heavily fined. If the illegals cant find work they go away

right own. you got it

[JimLewis]

I will say it again I do not agree with jim. I know to many more than 50 people who have had very difficult times getting hired in their areas of expertise. such as landscaping, carpentry and more becasue of cheap arrogant jerks who would refuse to hire anyone else but a hispanic. all becasue of a prevailing mentality that if you are white or black you are fat, and lazy. this is a bunch of b.s.

Well, maybe up in NW Colorado that ain't true. Some of my best american workers I ever had came from midwestern states like CO, Montana, and N. Dakota. But the it IS true around here in Portland, OR. I tried and tried and tried to hire american workers for years and years. I still do try. You know one around here who wants to do good hard work, you let me know. I will give him a job next week at $12 or even $14 an hour if he can hack the work. But ain't no american-raised guys around here wanting to do this kind of work, son! Unless then been in the joint for a few years and this is all they can get.

their are many legal people wanting to work but stuck up arrogant company's will not even give them the time of day. Youmay think I am a little offf on this but I have been their myself. I guess what really chaps me is this. When you find out a possible candidate might have a physical problem that would slow you down you pass them up. Hey, my dad spent half his life and died in a wheelchair. The last thing I want to do is leave disabled people out. But if you're disabled and can't dig a trench very quickly or haul some heavy flagstone or a roll of sod in your arms, I am sorry, but it just wouldn't work out. I ain't gonna put a dude with a heart condition behind a mower and I ain't gonna have someone with a bad back on my construction crew. That's just smart business. If you wanna have the first construction business using all handicap and you think you can make a good profit at it, cool. Show me how it's done, Sage.

When you find out a possible candidate has had a checkered past you pass them up.
That depends. He did time in the joint for robbery or rape, you bet I'm gonna pass him up. I had a member from my own church apply once and he had a felony conviction for exposing himself to exposing himself to young girls. He said he had repented and gone to classes and was better now. But I am not gonna put some guy in someone's back yard doing work wondering all the time if they are gonna expose themself to the customer's little girl or something. So sorry. That's just smart business too.

Now if they just had a misdemeanor assault because they got in a bar fight in college 8 years ago, I'd probably overlook that.

When you find out a possible candidate might have to much experiene you pass them up.
I almost never find laborers with too much experience and I'd never pass up on hiring one for that. LOL.

when you find out a candidate wants more than 7.00 per hour you pass them up.
Um. No. We don't have anyone working here making less than $12 and some make $50K. You don't know what you're talking about dude. We pay fairly decent wages. You're not gonna get rich and be able to buy your own house as one of my mowing crew laborers at $12. But if you speak english and are willing to just show up and do your work every day, you could be making upwards of $50k as a manager in our company in just a few years. With a wife making the same, that's a pretty damn liveable wage. You're not going to start entry level and make a killing, no. That's true almost everywhere. But I ain't paying guys so little they can barely survive. And despite all this, there still aren't many americans applying for any of our jobs that involve getting your hands dirty.

So basically all you have left to choose from are rich kids who have never had to work for anything or an illegal who will work for nothing. Quit your moaning and start looking you will find compitant legal workers who will make your head spin with productivity especially if you will pay them right. again you may not think i know what i am talking about but I have been their done that and I am sick and tire of hearing this mess

All I can say is it just must be different where you are. Around here, ain't nobody like what you're talking about. If there were, I'd hire them. It's not like I prefer to have hispanics that don't speak english working for me. To the contrary, I only WISH I could find some good clean-cut Americans to do this work and who would work hard all day and be willing to start at a decent entry level wage and work their way up. Unfortunately, despite all my best efforts, I can't find many of them. And every friggin' time I think I've found one - I give them a chance and hire them, they screw me! They quit showing up after 9 days. Or they start taking 1 or 2 days off every week because they're 'sick' or some other lame excuse. Or they want me to promote them to crew leader or manager after 1 month and quit when I say no. Or they get caught doing dope in the company truck at lunch. Or another 50 stories I could tell you.

[Ground Scapes]

Honestly; You wanna know what's killing our economy? :angry:

Spoiled rotten Nintendo brats with their gas scooters, top of the line clothing, laptops, razors, and pimped out hooptie rides whose parents buy everything for them and never taught them how to earn an honest dollar in their lives. So jobs that young people used to be willing to do (like SCAPIN', fast food, bailing hay, warehouse, etc.) - now they won't touch a "dirty" job like that. He||, their fathers don't even make them care for their own landscape most of the time. They prefer to sit around home all day and night playing Nintendo and messing around on MySpace until they're 20 years old or so.

90% of our youth have ZERO work ethic. They believe they're too good to get dirty or do any hard labor. And their damm parents perpetuate it! Mommy thinks it's just too hot for little Tommy to have to work outside in this heat. "Don't worry, Tommy. Here's some spending money. Go to the mall with your friends and have some fun. You don't have to do any of that messy work stuff."

All of you who are so against cheap immigrant labor I doubt have had much experience with the other kind. I would bet any of you that more legal american kids go through our company each year than you've ever had work for you in your company's entire lifespan. Oh, I'll still hire the guys. Still hoping maybe I'll find one with some heart and willingness to even just show up on a daily basis. I've tried paying them higher than normal wages for this area. I've tried everything. They simply don't want to do this kind of work. And it all goes back to how they were raised. You can't take a 22 year old whose never had to do a hard day of labor in his life and throw him into landscape construction or 10 hour days of maintenance. It's gonna fail every time! No matter what you pay! He ain't cut out for it!!!

But I wish they were. I wish you could still hire hard working American citizens to do the work we do. But unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last 10-20 years - you had to have noticed; THERE AIN'T TOO MANY LIKE THAT ANY MORE. THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON WHY EMPLOYERS RESORT TO USING IMMIGRANT LABOR!

It's not like 15 years ago all the employers were all making great profit, rolling in the dough, and then one day said to themselves, "You know what? We're making a good 15% profit margin right now. But dammit. I want to be richer. I bet if I hired some foreign immigrants who can't speak the language - I bet I could pay them waaaay less and then we'd be makin' 30% profit!!! "He||s bells, Mabel! I figured it out! We'z gonna be rich! I'm a firin' all these here white folk and hirin' me up some Mexicans!" payup

No! That didn't happen. What happened was as america started to prosper and families didn't need as much money coming in, parents decided youth shouldn't have to work until after they got out of college. And the more that happened, the more a void occurred. And we filled that void with the only people who WERE happy to do the work - immigrants.

So don't blame them for our economy. Blame lazy freakin' americans. Thank God my parents made me take hard manual labor jobs when I was a kid. The guy my mom was married to when I was growing up was the only orthepedic surgeon in the county. He was making over $300,000 a year back in the 80's. That was some serious dough! I didn't HAVE to work. But thank God my parents made me get manual labor jobs regardless. When I was 15, I spent the entire summer on my knees in my grandfather's nursery pulling weeds among the tree seedling rows for minimum wage - 40 hours a week - all freakin' summer. And you think it was easy because I was working for family? He|| no! My grandfather was an angry a-hole 90% of the time and took most of his frustrations out on family. It was tough freakin' work. But I always took on jobs like that growing up and throughout college. And I thank God and my parents for that. I learned two things from those experiences. I learned what I didn't want to do the rest of my life. But I also learned how to bust hump when the time comes.

Unfortunately, most parents don't do that any more. Heck, I'd be happy if parents just made their kids take a part time job bailing hay for half the summer. Just SOMETHING to teach them a little work ethic. But if you wanna blame someone -blame the lazy americans. We all want everything done for us for cheap. But we bemoan the very group of people who make it happen for us.



Unbelievable.


.
I agree 100% with you jim. I am not the gammer you are talking about. I am 14 years old, and have accomplished more than many my age. This will be the third season mowing/landscaping commercially.(over 60 clients) Many of my friends couldn't even imagine what it takes to put in 40 or more hours a week in 90-100 degree weather, let alone the strength. It isn't the kids fault that they aren't pushed into the world and forced to get a job that involves physical labor, it is their parents fault. I urge any of you reading this with children to consider making them get out into the real world. Landscaping has given me strength and pride: I AM PROUD OF THAT

[grassyguy]

Jim is right. Im in Oklahoma where they passed 1804. Many of the large companies around here are dropping accounts right and left. I assure you it isnt because the WANT to downsize. They can no longer find the employees they need to fulfill their contracts. We pay our hispanics very well. We usually end up getting the best guys from other companies who dont pay as well. We take care of our employees like txgrassguy because we know they are a valuable asset. I could never keep enough good ol americans. They were unreliable and inconsistent. These hispanics for the most part really want to work and will work hard. Take care of them and they are loyal. Americans think they deserve something for nothing. Now, I know these are all generalities. There are opposites on both sides. I heard of a colorodo rancher who put an ad in the paper for 53 positions on his ranch. He had two calls and neither one of them showed up for a interview. He had relied on immigrant workers for many years until they changed the laws. You may be able to find a couple here and there but never enough to fill multiple crews.

[larryinalabama]

Does the Americian owned and operated slogan generate more bus?

American owned and operated generates more of the business Im looking for. Think about it low ballers dont care about who cuts their grass. American owned and operated is a signal that your not the cheepest. Im looking for people who love their yards and need help maintaing them at a fair price. Its a waste of time trying to give extamates for people who only want the lowest price.

That has been on my business card forever, and will remain there.

[jeffex]

your still advocating the hiring of immigrants of suspect status. Did you jump throught the H2B hoops and follow the law? Is your profitability justification for aiding and abedding illegal immigrants. Are you paying the health care for these excellent workers or is that added into my increase in health care premiums since they use our hospital as their own doctors for free. This is no different than shoplifters who raise prices for customers who PAY for goods when the store owners pass the loss on as a cost. What are you doing to encourage these great employees to become citizens of the country they are stealing from? Did you beat out an American company hiring legal workers for a bid due to shaved labor costs ?

[larryinalabama]

your still advocating the hiring of immigrants of suspect status. Did you jump throught the H2B hoops and follow the law? Is your profitability justification for aiding and abedding illegal immigrants. Are you paying the health care for these excellent workers or is that added into my increase in health care premiums since they use our hospital as their own doctors for free. This is no different than shoplifters who raise prices for customers who PAY for goods when the store owners pass the loss on as a cost. What are you doing to encourage these great employees to become citizens of the country they are stealing from? Did you beat out an American company hiring legal workers for a bid due to shaved labor costs ?

AMEN

Im glad Im solo. Wait till one of your Illegals cuts his finger off, He wont go to mexico he will go find a good lawyer SUE you and your CUSTOMER. You sold your soal for the almighty Dollar and you will loose in the long run. You fellers hiring Illegals give the whole industry a bad name.

[Stillwater]

Does the Americian owned and operated slogan generate more bus?

yes it does

[Johnson LCO]

AMEN

Im glad Im solo. Wait till one of your Illegals cuts his finger off, He wont go to mexico he will go find a good lawyer SUE you and your CUSTOMER. You sold your soal for the almighty Dollar and you will loose in the long run. You fellers hiring Illegals give the whole industry a bad name.

Can an illegal immigrant sue someone in the US? I though right when they popped their head up they would be deported. Do they even have rights? I always wondered this but we dont really have any immigrants around here so I never asked.

[larryinalabama]

Can an illegal immigrant sue someone in the US? I though right when they popped their head up they would be deported. Do they even have rights? I always wondered this but we dont really have any immigrants around here so I never asked.

YES, they can and will. Illegals have more rights than Citizens, can you check into a hosipatal with no social security # nope, they can. Can you get arrested for selling drugs, then go back to mexico before goint to trial nope they can.

If your hiring illeagls your playing with gasolene and matches, one a customer gets sued by YOUR illegal the word will get around and you will soon be working at Mickey dees.

[grassyguy]

First of all, all my hispanics pay taxes on everything they make. As, a matter of fact they all file for tax returns. Secondly I pay workmans comp on all of them as well. And while it is true that some do not pay for hospital visits, all of mine do. I have helped them pay their bills and deducted it from there checks each week until paid for. I know that this is not true for some, but I hate being lumped into a group of people who do things wrongly. These guys provide all the paper work I need to hire them legally. I even turn in the ss# to the IRS. Obviously they are not concerned with people who pay taxes because I have never heard back from them on any of my guys. So as far as I know, (legally) these guys must be legal? And we do not lowball anyone. As a matter of fact we are usually about 18 to 24 percent higher on all our bids than our competition. We sell quality and people are willing to pay for it. Most of my residential customers have in fact formed enough of a relationship with my employees that they offer them old furniture, washers dryes etc. They often ask how they are doing by name. THEY ARE PEOPLE. Given the chance to get to know them they are not all cheats and thugs.

[Stillwater]

Cheats and Thugs? How Do You Know? you did not use the SSNVS service. You never herd back from the IRS because you are not supposed to turn SS numbers into the IRS for verification. The IRS is not a validating service. If you are serious you would be using the SSNVS system, you should know this. Plug those numbers in right now you may be shocked.

[larryinalabama]

First of all, all my hispanics pay taxes on everything they make. As, a matter of fact they all file for tax returns. Secondly I pay workmans comp on all of them as well. And while it is true that some do not pay for hospital visits, all of mine do. I have helped them pay their bills and deducted it from there checks each week until paid for. I know that this is not true for some, but I hate being lumped into a group of people who do things wrongly. These guys provide all the paper work I need to hire them legally. I even turn in the ss# to the IRS. Obviously they are not concerned with people who pay taxes because I have never heard back from them on any of my guys. So as far as I know, (legally) these guys must be legal? And we do not lowball anyone. As a matter of fact we are usually about 18 to 24 percent higher on all our bids than our competition. We sell quality and people are willing to pay for it. Most of my residential customers have in fact formed enough of a relationship with my employees that they offer them old furniture, washers dryes etc. They often ask how they are doing by name. THEY ARE PEOPLE. Given the chance to get to know them they are not all cheats and thugs.
Well if your fellers are legal what are you worried about. Were talking about illegals.

[Stillwater]

Well if your fellers are legal what are you worried about. Were talking about illegals.

He really doesn't know if they are legal or not he never used the SSNVS system. He said he sent the SS numbers to the IRS, The IRS is not a validating service.

[larryinalabama]

He really doesn't know if they are legal or not he never used the SSNVS system. He said he sent the SS numbers to the IRS, The IRS is not a validating service.

Your right, if he doesnt know for a fact that his people are legal than they probably are not. I resend my eairler comments.

[packey]

as far as needing to hire illegals to keep operating you are blowing smoke. I ahve been on the other side and their are workers You may argue but the simple truth is their are legal workers. Some might be of hispanic origins but I am telling you not all are. again if you need workers I have said it before and I will say it again I will find them for you. I am sick and tired of the mentality that says I can not find anyone who will work. the honest tructh is for many who claim this not all but many this is just an excuse to get less expensive laborers.

[B_gerrits]

Well it appears we have a mixed bag here. Jim says he can't get good americian workers for $12-14 an hour that in my opinon is definetly a good wage. Jim Lewis from what I read is a smart guy that runs a tight ship and I would bet he doesn't have any uninsured workers. Packy feels that a lot of companies discriminate against americian workers and want immigrants which around here I know is true. Here's what really gripes me around here for most jobs companies are requiring that a person be bilingual how is it that I have to learn their language I didn't move to their country? I think America is in big trouble we have shipped all of our manufacturing overseas, outsourced our IT work to India and import hispanics to do our labor. Just what does America produce besides debt anymore? What can be done about the invasion of our country? Here at last count 51% of our state is latino.

[JimLewis]

your still advocating the hiring of immigrants of suspect status.

No. I am not. I am saying there's a void in our country's labor pool. Very few people from THIS country want to do certain jobs. It's not an issue of pay. It's not an issue of health insurance. And by the way, my full time, year round employees do have health insurance. But that's beside the point. It's an issue of nobody here wants to do a lot of the work this nation wants done. No americans around this area want to get up on hot rooftops and nail roofing material to a house and possibly fall off. It's just not worth it to them, even though a full time roofer here can make good money. And yet we all still need homes with roofs! It's like that with landscaping and another hundred industries. There's a huge need for immigrant labor here. And everyone's all focusing on the illegal part of it.

What we need is a huge bunch of LEGAL workers here. To the tune of like 12Mil. of them. That's approx. what we have now in illegals. There is an obvious need for that many immigrant workers otherwise, they wouldn't be here. So pick a number, issue them all tamper-proof ID cards, let them come in and work for 5 years then they have to go back home for 5 years. If they commit a felony while they're here, kick them out and they can't ever come back. But if they're just here to work for 5 years and make some money - great! We need them! Welcome them in, help them find the companies that need their help, and let's get to work!

What I am advocating for - is that we need workers who are willing to do the kind of work we do. I'm advocating for people to start training up their children to get involved in some real labor and not be afraid to take on a good hard job during the summer or while they're working their way through college. Or maybe on their way up to a career. Someone with just a college education could even earn their way up to a pretty decent career in my area in this business if they'd just be willing to put in some hard work and prove themselves for a couple of years. I had one american guy prove that so far. We originally hired him back in the 90s at $7.50 an hour. When he left our company a few years ago, he was making $45K. Fortunately for him, he found a job in the oil industry - through his parents - making over $100K a year - down in Texas. But had he stuck around here he'd be making around $55K this year with us. Not rich. But again, with a spouse making similar money, that's a good comfortable living around here. He proved what I am saying. But no americans want to do that.

So again - I am advocating for more workers who want to do good solid hard work. If that means we start training our youth to take these jobs - great! I'm advocating that. But if not, the need is still there. You can't just ignore the need and tell people, "Well, I am sorry. I know you need a roof. And back when they allowed immigrants in the country, I could have sold you a roof for $15,000. But now that I can't keep any good employees for very long and they all work slow as piss, and the roofing manufacturer charges me twice as much now for roofing materials because all his workers are now slow as piss and cost him twice as much. Well, now you're new roof is gonna cost you $35,000.....I know. I know....Yes, I know you can't afford that for a new roof. I don't blame you.....Yes, I agree that's a rediculous price to pay for a roof....But go tell that to JeffEx and all those others who wanted to kick out all the immigrant labor a few years ago. There's nothing I can do now."

I'm advocating a guest worker program that allows a lot more than what H2B does. H2B is a joke, guys. 66,000 workers per year? He||, we need more than that in just Portland. And a limit of 10 months? That's rediculous. We can't be re-training and receiving new workers every 10 months. We need guys with experience. We need a good, well-run program that allows workers to come here LEGALLY for a reasonable period of time.

I am not advocating hiring illegals any more than you are advocating outsourcing jobs to other countries by buying a Mitsubishi TV, a Motorola phone, using a Citibank card, buying a fossil watch, wearing Nautica or flying on an Airbus plane. I'm sure you're not advocating outsourcing American production jobs and customer support jobs are you? And yet your use of hundreds of products and services each week are encouraging and supporting it. But the reality is, if Americans were making cell phones they would cost $890.00 with a 3 year commitment. And nobody except the rich would buy cell phones. Especially when you'd also be paying $33,000 for a new roof, $7500 for that new American made LCD TV. We all want stuff cheap. And yet some also claim we need to keep all the jobs for everything we use or buy for Americans. You can't have it both ways. It's simple economics.

I agree that it's not good to have open borders and illegals running into our country at will. But the solution isn't just kicking all of them out and throwing up a fence. The solution is to make them legal, make them temporary, and make it enforceable.

[M&N Maintenance]

I think that Jim has a great handle on everything. I also think that alot of the people who are against illegals forget where their family originate from. I would also like to say that hispanics or mexicans are not the only ILLEGALS. There are many pollaks, chinese, canadians, french, and countless other nationalities. They are also taking the jobs that others do not want. If we are going to vent about illegals I feel we should not be biased and vent about all of the illegals. And yes they even take jobs in the landscape industry.

[B_gerrits]

I think that Jim has a great handle on everything. I also think that alot of the people who are against illegals forget where their family originate from. I would also like to say that hispanics or mexicans are not the only ILLEGALS. There are many pollaks, chinese, canadians, french, and countless other nationalities. They are also taking the jobs that others do not want. If we are going to vent about illegals I feel we should not be biased and vent about all of the illegals. And yes they even take jobs in the landscape industry.

First I would like to say I respect everyones right to their opinion. I totally respect Jim's opinion however I am not in favor of granting amnesty. There maybe Illegals from different nationalities but I'm not asked to learn their languages, however all illegals should be dealt with. As for the argument that we are all immigrants I believe America was a developing country at that time. If we let anyone who wants to come here in we will facing the same problems that China has, overpopulation. I'm not saying that we need to shut down all immigration but it should be regulated, candidates should be tested for diseases and criminal background checks should be conducted and the numbers allowed in should be controlled. We can't allow everyone who wants to come here in or there will be nothing left for any of us it is not like we have unlimited resources.

[Stillwater]

I think that Jim has a great handle on everything. I also think that alot of the people who are against illegals forget where their family originate from. I would also like to say that hispanics or mexicans are not the only ILLEGALS. There are many pollaks, chinese, canadians, french, and countless other nationalities. They are also taking the jobs that others do not want. If we are going to vent about illegals I feel we should not be biased and vent about all of the illegals. And yes they even take jobs in the landscape industry.

It sounds to me like you think their is something wrong with Americans being against illegal immigration. Do you think it's wrong for Americans to be against illegal immigration?. Does it make Americans bad people to want their borders secure? you sound so strongly otherwise it makes me wonder if you are hear legally

[JimLewis]

First I would like to say I respect everyones right to their opinion. I totally respect Jim's opinion however I am not in favor of granting amnesty.

I am not necessarily saying Amnesty is a good thing either. But what if we got a program together that said if you're here illegally now and gainfully employed and paying your taxes and not getting into trouble, we'll give you a temporary work visa that will expire in 5 years. After which time you'll be required to leave and go back home for a while before you can return again. You'll also be required to get a tamperproof ID card and be fingerprinted. So if you break the rules we throw you out and then you NEVER get to come back.

Meanwhile, we make it nearly impossible to sneak in. From now on everyone who enters needs to have a tamper proof ID, be fingerprinted and background checked, and then they can get a temporary work visa for 5 years. And for every worker who is here now who leaves, we allow another one to come in for 5 years in his or her place.

What's wrong with that? Then everyone would be legal. Everyone would get checked. Nobody would be able to sneak in. And it's all just temporary workers rather than people sneaking in and settling down for 20 years.

[B_gerrits]

But what if we got a program together that said if you're here illegally now and gainfully employed and paying your taxes and not getting into trouble, we'll give you a temporary work visa that will expire in 5 years. After which time you'll be required to leave and go back home for a while before you can return again. You'll also be required to get a tamperproof ID card and be fingerprinted. So if you break the rules we throw you out and then you NEVER get to come back.


This problem is very complex and has no simple answers. First of all Jim I am at a total loss of how an illegal is legally paying their taxes, at the very least they are fradulently using somebodies elses SS#. Maybe we should make a way for those who other than being here illegally and committing fraud and have an employer who is willing to sponser the person and has commited no other crime to obtain citizenship. It seems to me there has to be some kind of penality for the crimes commited or it is not fair to those who went through the steps to be here legally and I really don't see how we can reward illegal behavior. Your thoughts?

[Stillwater]

American citizenship is cheapened by allowing them to stay and rewarding them is disrespectful to every American alive and dead.

[Stillwater]

Unless you were born an American, American citizenship is not a right, it is something to be earned by demonstrating outstanding qualities like loyalty, respecting and obeying our laws and common language and learning our history and what it truly means to be an American. Not having these qualities or even the desire to at least try is not the quality of people I want as my fellow American.

Watching those hundreds of illegal immigrants marching and protesting on the streets of LA. 8 months ago waving the Mexican flag while holding signs and chanting Mexican rights and slogans and singing the national anthem in Spanish sickened me beyond description. The last straw for me was when I saw American flags flown under the Mexican flags on the same pole, I just wanted to vomit. And the lack out outcry by the average American on this issue is enough to gag a maggot and have me question their loyalty. American citizenship has been cheapened to the degree where we need a argument about what language to print our voting ballots in,,, ya, it's bad.

[JimLewis]

. Maybe we should make a way for those who other than being here illegally and committing fraud and have an employer who is willing to sponser the person and has commited no other crime to obtain citizenship. It seems to me there has to be some kind of penality for the crimes commited or it is not fair to those who went through the steps to be here legally and I really don't see how we can reward illegal behavior. Your thoughts?

Well, what your suggesting is basically amnesty. It's basically what McCain and Bush were after last year but failed to get the legislative branch to agree on.

I don't really care too much, honestly. I am not for amnesty. And I am not against it. If they wanted to pardon the 12Mil. who are here now and give them amnesty and a permanent resident alien card, it wouldn't bother me, personally. If we're going to have immigrants come into the country, Mexico is probably my first choice. I like their culture and values and work ethic. Things we need more of in this country.

On the other hand, if they never got amnesty and were all told they only had 5 years left in this country and then they had to head back home for a while, that wouldn't bother me so much either - as long as they allowed a new batch to come work here for a while.

I'm just for having a big pool of workers who want to work hard. I don't really care so much how we accomplish it. I'd prefer we find a way to accomplish our labor needs legally. But regardless, those labor needs have to be filled one way or another or a lot of industries in this country will be doomed.

It's funny. This thread was started with a statement that the illegals are killing the economy. And that's funny because the reality is that illegals actually bolster our economy. They make all sorts of goods and services affordable that didn't used to be. Remember the 70s and 80s? Having your own personal LCO was a total luxury back then. Only the rich had a professional landscape company come maintain their entire property every week. Now half of the people in my city do it - from all income levels. Affordable labor and reliable workers have created an huge industry that just a decade or two ago used to be quite small. They've done this with several industries. And it's been damm good for the economy.

[jeffex]

The most likely (not necessarily right) solution is for government to do what they do best. Create a bureaucracy to monitor immigrants with a dna based card that can be verified online by potential employers. Paid for by a tax on these workers by employers benefiting from them not on current taxpayers. Since they are soo good the tax paid will be well worth it, right! A national tracking system that can in real time update status of the 5yr worker visa Jim spoke of. Additionally, the option to follow the path to citizen ship already in place for hundreds of years. Classes to teach english and the requirements for citizenship funded by an employer pool of monies since they are the ones benefiting from this labor . The citizenship process may need some modernization but it has made it important enough for those who truly desire citizenship to jump through the hoops for years. Most importantly would be the requirement for employers to pay penalties for hiring illegal workers. This may level the playing field where some employers will simply hire and train and pay Americans instead. I am far from a big government person because just as all bureaucracy's it will become top heavy and inefficient but it may be a necessary evil to stem the tide of illegals IMO. Many illegals will chose to say F-it and go home and hopefully the good ones will become documented and even better eventually citizens. Simply giving them a pass with amnesty has failed in the past to do anything but bring in more illegals. I'm not a racist!!! I am an American. I don't want America to only be a word in a song before sporting events.I don't want to have to learn Spanish in my own country simply because of cheap labor. Soon these hard working people will take your neighbors HVAC job because they are willing to work 12 hours a day and he wants to got to his kids baseball game. I DON'T want to see the looks on some of the landscapers faces when they can't get a bid because the illegal they let work now takes their bid in the future. Thats not the America I want to live in!!! hELL IF THIS KEEPS UP IT WONT BE AMERICA ANY LONGER . Americo?

[larryinalabama]

JimLewis that fact that you cant hire and keep a American worker for 55k per year is about the dumbest statement I have ever heard. We have family owned roofing companies here that use all American workers and dont charge more than the jerks using illegals.

In my opinion immagrating to America is a privledge. If you want to come and join in and be AMERICAN thats fine. If you want to come here just to make a quick buck and leave is redicilous.

If a strong economy were truley was dependent on cheap labor Mexico would have a fence to keep the people from leaving.

[jeffex]

the situations in France and England is like having a crystal ball to our future. The immigrants to their countries did NOT asymilate and become citizens. The wealthy and politically connected don't care about America simply their own pockets. They are not effected by the economy and look the other way as well as long as the illegals VOTE for them. Illegals are the trojan hose welcomed in by landscapers and other physical labor jobs. The answer is not immigrant labor but a correction in the business cycle that deflates prices of homes , goods and services to force Americans to do the work. As Jim has stated highly qualified people are applying in #s for his help wanted adds. We also need a tax system that incentifies small business rather than saddles it with cost for our own people . Let an American company get a tax break for hiring AMERICANS. A population explosion is the only answer to the work force. The American middle class is maxed out with 2 income families working overtime to buy HD tvs and Ipods and SUVs. Illegal workers subvert the natural business cycle and prolong the inevitable correction. If we remove the illegals from the equation either joe homeowner will cut his own lawn again or make his lazy kid do it.

[JimLewis]

JimLewis that fact that you cant hire and keep a American worker for 55k per year is about the dumbest statement I have ever heard.

Well, obviously you just took bits and pieces and what I said and put them together. You're reading comprehension needs work.

What I said was you could eventually make that kind of money in this business if you're willing to work your way up over the years. It can become a good livable wage.

What I have trouble finding are any americans who are willing to start at $12 an hour and mow lawns for a year or two before they move up. Or be a landscape construction laborer for a year or two before they move up. The only guys who will do that work, do well, and stick with it are immigrants.

[B_gerrits]

As I said before I am not in favor of amnesty I also am not in favor of more big govt but it will take big govt to stop what we have going on now. The first part of the problem is how to stop the massive influx. I think this can only be done by cracking down on employers I dont a big fence will work. The second part of the problem is what to do with those already here. I personally dont see how a guest residency program would work because I dont think they would go home. Another problem would be with them be shifted in and out they would never learn english, or assilimulate. I also think the anchor baby rule needs to go and a new law must be passed stating that to be a legal citizen the parents must be legal citizens.

[B_gerrits]

hELL IF THIS KEEPS UP IT WONT BE AMERICA ANY LONGER . Americo?

You sir are right. This is what is happening here. They on the street corners selling fruit they ride bicycles selling ice cream. I waiting for the kids selling chicklets. If you go to an construction site you will be lucky to see one white or black guy. I am referred to as the last white landscaper (which is not true but close) My brother go down the street counting how many of them we see as opposed to other races and there is more of them. I dont live in a ghetto I live in a suburb 60 miles north of San Francisco. Something has to be done before it is to late.

[larryinalabama]

The real reason the bigger companies in here hire illegals is because if they hire an American, the companies customers will become his employees customers. The employee will eventually start his own business with his bosses accounts. Saying I cant find anyone to work for 12-15$ per hour or Americans wont work is just a bunch of BS.

This will also happen if the illegals get Amnesty, so becareful what you wish for, the job loss or business failure might just be yours.

[txgrassguy]

[QUOTE=larryinalabama;2179443]The real reason the bigger companies in here hire illegals is because if they hire an American, the companies customers will become his employees customers. The employee will eventually start his own business with his bosses accounts. Saying I cant find anyone to work for 12-15$ per hour or Americans wont work is just a bunch of BS.

Perhaps for you this may be true yet for me it isn't.
WASP labor difficulties are rampant in the USA for a variety of reasons, most of them which ave been espoused here already.
I have been in this industry for almost twenty years, working for the largest golf construction company, managing my own course as a superintendent, to the last eight years being self employed.
I have observed first hand just about every type of employment destructive bizarre behavior but the one thing I haven't seen is an employee leaving to start his/her own business - regardless if the employee was legal or not.
My company now (the one I own/operate) is in an intensive struggle to acquire additional employees to augment those already on payroll.
I see no end in sight for this problem as the labor/employment difficulties are, in my opinion, a mirror to the failings of our social underpinnings, breakdown of the family as a cohesive unit and the total abandonment of personal responsibility.
Prior to entering this industry I worked primarily as a Violent Crimes investigator plus a small amount of time in uniform on the streets - and I saw the acceleration of the failings back in the mid '80's.
I happen to believe the USA is in the trough of a wave, but I cannot answer when/if at all we will return to the crest.
I just know I have my hands full now dealing with my company and wholeheartedly resent politicians vote hunting by adding restrictions on me (as a business owner) in a bullsh!t attempt to level the economic playing field.

[larryinalabama]

You sir are right. This is what is happening here. They on the street corners selling fruit they ride bicycles selling ice cream. I waiting for the kids selling chicklets. If you go to an construction site you will be lucky to see one white or black guy. I am referred to as the last white landscaper (which is not true but close) My brother go down the street counting how many of them we see as opposed to other races and there is more of them. I dont live in a ghetto I live in a suburb 60 miles north of San Francisco. Something has to be done before it is to late.

I left So. Mexfornia in 1992 I saw this crap comming. Now it is reappearing here in Alabama, theres no where left to go.

You fellers hiring illegals are forcing all of us AMERICANS to pay a heavy price, and we really are loosing our country.

HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR CHICKLETS

[B_gerrits]

I left So. Mexfornia in 1992 I saw this crap comming. Now it is reappearing here in Alabama, theres no where left to go.

You fellers hiring illegals are forcing all of us AMERICANS to pay a heavy price, and we really are loosing our country.

HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR CHICKLETS

Whaaat I have never hired an illegal:nono:. I hire highschool kids, family, and a few women who are americian and can kick some A. I am Americian owned and operated and will always be. Unless something is done to stop this it will be like it is here everywhere.

[larryinalabama]

Whaaat I have never hired an illegal:nono:. I hire highschool kids, family, and a few women who are americian and can kick some A. I am Americian owned and operated and will always be. Unless something is done to stop this it will be like it is here everywhere.

Sorry, I was trying to feel your pain while venting my frustrion at the big guys that hire the illegals. I was just saying what the future holds if this crap contunies. I mean the mexican flag is flying in the mayors office in LA. Its too late for California.

[JimLewis]

Well, I think a lot of this is relative, depending on where you're from. There may still be good american workers in Alybammer who will work for those rates. But you're woefully ignorant if you think it's like that everywhere else in the country. Here, our state min. wage is more than $2 over the Federal rate. In your state, there is no min. wage, from what I read.

It's just different in other places. So you may not experience the same labor challenges we have here or in CA. Taking your experiences in AL and saying, "This is how it is." is just ignorant. You're not taking into account that what you're saying might be true down there, but it might not be elsewhere.

If you can still find good american workers who will do this work, SWEET! I am happy for you. I envy you. I wish I was in the same boat. But you come up here and run a business with 15-20 employees for 5 years or so and then tell me what you think about labor issues. You'll be singing a different tune.

[B_gerrits]

Sorry, I was trying to feel your pain while venting my frustrion at the big guys that hire the illegals. I was just saying what the future holds if this crap contunies. I mean the mexican flag is flying in the mayors office in LA. Its too late for California.

Unfortunatly you may be right. I would like to use the damn liberals here for fert. California has one of the best climates in the 48 states, seems a shame to just let it be invaded. Oh by the way we are not all liberal pot smoking idiots however it seems our politicians must be.I don't even use drugs I like my beer though.:drinkup:

[tb8100]

Unfortunatly you may be right. I would like to use the damn liberals here for fert. California has one of the best climates in the 48 states, seems a shame to just let it be invaded. Oh by the way we are not all liberal pot smoking idiots however it seems our politicians must be.I don't even use drugs I like my beer though.:drinkup:

Hey Duncan Hunter is a good guy! :hammerhead:

[jeffex]

I have to say it still sounds like a guy rationalizing growing and selling pot because it helps His economy. Sure it does but hiring illegals and looking the other way at a guy who barely speaks english because he wields a great trimmer is down right selfish. Your helping give away this country. For those landscapers out there that have refused to promote illegal immigration I commend you. Your great Americans. Oh I'm sure you may have considered how much money you can make but at what cost. At least if your selling pot you can find a few good American workers to work cheap. After all laws don't concern some people and cheap labor is your goal right!!!??? consider a different "GRASS" business and lets keep our country from being over run by illegals!

[B_gerrits]

Hey Duncan Hunter is a good guy! :hammerhead:

Your right Duncan Hunter does look good not in my district though. Governor Schwarzenegger hasn't been all bad at least he kept driver licences from going to illegals. Dianne Feinstein sucks and so does Barbara Boxer.

[JimLewis]

I have to say it still sounds like a guy rationalizing growing and selling pot because it helps His economy. Sure it does but hiring illegals and looking the other way at a guy who barely speaks english because he wields a great trimmer is down right selfish. Your helping give away this country. ..

Well, to me, you still sound like someone who's hell bent on hating immigrants and Mexicans. I have explained over and over how I am not promoting illegal laborers. I am promoting LEGAL immigrant workers being allowed into our country to help accommodate the very real labor needs of our nation. And yet all you keep hearing is "illegals are so great." I don't know what to tell you man. I can't make you hear it and you're proving the old adage that, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." (Carnegie). No matter how I explain it you're still hanging onto your anti-immigrant beliefs.

I'm trying to explain that we need affordable labor and without immigrants it disappears and you're like a little kid covering your ears with both hands saying, "Blah blah blah.....blahdy blahdy blahhhh....I can't hear you....illegals are the devil......blah blah....I'm not listening....whatever...."

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[lot0210]

Jim you keep saying that we do not want immigrants. That is not true we want immigrants in this grate nation, but we want legal immigrants not ILLEGAL immigrants there is a difference. Dose no one see this. We have immigration laws for a reason, to stop over population and undue stress on the welfare an social security systems. Do not give me the there good people speech (I even liked a couple of guy I worked with). The fact remains that they are criminals and need to be punished.

[B_gerrits]

Guys Jim has never once said he wants to hire illegals. If I am reading his posts right what he wants is a guest worker program because he can't get good americian labor at $12 an hour. If this is true that is a pathetic and disturbing statement for American labor. One that kinda sickens me. He says he would rather have american labors but can't find any that want the job or if they do they are either scum or can't hack it. I still think the majority of companies that want immigrants are really looking for dirt cheap labor. Hey Jim your web site is awesome.

[ilc79]

Thank you Jim lewis I agree with you 100% I cant find Good help at 12-15 hr or they work a few days and then the problems start or some sort of drama every day Im sick of it my amigos show up every morning rain or shine they come and work till we finish not till it gets hot and say lets go home its too hot or to cold we will finish tommorow and end up having to work sat and sun they just do it and take pride in their work but thats my opinion i wouldnt take nothin for m three guys.

[wildbilly1113]

West Virginia workers used to be the pride of construction sites in Va.,Md.,Penn.& Dc.They travel long distances from the mountains and would work dark to dark. Now it is mostly amigos. The last 20 years I picked fruit I was the only white man in the orchards. This work used to be done by the locals. The Times they are a changing!

[jeffex]

I can hear your advocating legal immigration but in what way are you acting on it. You pay all the employment fees on your hispanic workers and give them health care . I know people who use their cousins SS #s on their tax forms as dependents to get a write off is that ok because the IRS didn't say anything. You sound like a good businessman . Jim I respect your posts here on lawnsite and believe your a very successful operation . I'm offering my viewpoint and not quoting anyone here . I'm offering a counterpoint to illegal imigration since I believe landscapers are on the front lines of this issue. I know this is a heated topic and the race card is always played but I'm still here with my narrow minded viewpoint because I believe it. I have typed in here ways to move in a direction of change through our Gov. and elected officials. I believe maintaining the status quo is prolonging the cancer treatment. I'm not asking you or any employer to become an immigration official. However, the crews i've seen don't speak English and their forman give me the wink wink when they mention their paper work. I am actively fighting amnesty bills by calling and faxing my elected officials. I believe amnesty and illegal immigration to be a cancer on America just like it was on France and England. America can put this cancer into remission with modern guest worker programs and a new emphasis on protecting our borders IMO. I still believe that stiff penalties on employers for hiring illegals after a online real time nationwide ID system is enacted will solve some of the problems. A few news segments showing landscapers paying heavy fines will "enable" a few other employers to realy check the status of their employees. the only amnesty I want is for employers to get an initial pass when a nationwide ID system is installed. Check their workers and give them time to get into compliance and assist them in documenting their workers . I am not rounding up bus companies to drive the (enter derogatory racist names here) home. The people who want to be a part of this country will stay and jump through the hoops like all other legal immigrants before them . The ones just here for a quick buck will go home on their own . No fence needed.

[Marek]

Its tuff to jump into tjis after reading 9 pages.I'm not sure there is an easy answer. Jim Lewis, I agree 99 percent with what you have said. Americans have lost alot of thier work ethic. Around here you cant get school kids to work, and the ones that will left alot to be desired. Alot of this topic is going to vary in different parts of the country. Around here the kids under 18 who try to work cant get jobs because most places wont hire them for several reasons.reliabliity, transportation and now days they stay away from kids under 18 for liability issues. I like my Latino guys, they work hard and are always there on time. The Latino foreman I have has only called out one time in 8 yrs,how many people of any race are that dedicated? I hear all the stories from my guys, from people they know crossing w/o papers to getting WIC every month even though they are not here leagally.Now they have even found a way to get Busha new tax rebate.They simpliy file for an ID number then file thier taxes.So even the illegals that are here are getting our tax money back. In Maryland they even file for assistance and get it. How is it right that the Gov. can hand them everything but it is not legal for us to hire them? If you really want to know how they feel tell them they have to spend 5 yrs in the military to become legal here and watch the reaction.Jeffex how many times have the larger landscape companies around here been raided yet they still hire them. Here in MD there are tons of illegals and they are putting a real hurting on our Govt. systems and taking alot of money that should only be there for people who need it. Not for someone who dosnt even pay into it. There is no easy answer but something does need to be done. Heck our Gov even wants to give the illegals drivers lisence. There is another thing how many of these guys are driving around uninsured? What happens after an accident? Everyones insurance goes up. Same with health care.Local taxes for schools, how many kids in our schooll system have non legal parents?

[JimLewis]

Ok, Jeff. Well, we will have to agree to disagree. We may not be too awfully far off in our views. It's just the way I would handle it is FIRST set up a good system where millions of legal workers could be here, and THEN work on doing something with the ones who are here.

Regardless, I have to check out of this thread and lawnsite for a little while. I've made all the points I want to make and my regular work life is getting way too busy. Someone forgot to tell the people around here it's not April 20th. Everyone and their dog is calling me and we're swamped right now. Have a good spring guys. No hard feelings, I just like to make my points in a strong way. :)

[jeffex]

Now thats class Jim!! I appreciate the civil disagreement. Good luck in 08 Jim and soon we'll all be too busy to worry over any of this BS. thanks for the chance to type my position lawnsite.

[jeffex]

Marek , here in Maryland the fight is tough. We have business owners who want the cheap labor and elected officials (D) who want the votes. It boggles my mind how illegals are given sanctuary and even encouraged to come here and get a drivers lisc.. The only way to do something is to contact your elected officials. http://www.wbal.com/shows/c4/ under C4s picture is a link to how to contact YOUR officials. It helped beat back the tax on landscaping services in the special legislative session and the Amnesty bill proposed in 07. It does work and you DO have a voice. You just have to be persistant and patient. What the hell its just a fax or a phone call. the only thing elected officials care about is thier own a$$ so if its on the line they will act on YOUR behalf. Its better than doing nothing and resolving yourself to the decline of America. Also to your point of repeat offenders lets see how they do after a jail term. A small fine is just a cost of doing business. a large fine is an eye opener but a jail term solves the problem.

[B_gerrits]

. Around here the kids under 18 who try to work cant get jobs . In Maryland they even file for assistance and get it. How is it right that the Gov. can hand them everything Jeffex how many times have the larger landscape companies around here been raided yet they still hire them. Here in MD there are tons of illegals and they are putting a real hurting on our Govt. systems Not for someone who dosnt even pay into it. There is no easy answer but something does need to be done. Heck our Gov even wants to give the illegals drivers lisence. There is another thing how many of these guys are driving around uninsured? What happens after an accident? Everyones insurance goes up. Same with health care.Local taxes for schools, how many kids in our schooll system have non legal parents?

I think it is sad but true people complain about our youths work ethic but the kids under 18 can't get jobs. Why, because people who don't belong here have taken them all. How are they suppose to learn strong work ethics? I still don't understand how people that are here illegally get tax paid assistance but they do. I soo don't understand how illegals get a DL but they do. As for what happens after an accident true story. My next door neighbor's car was hit by an illegal with no lic or ins the cops let the guy go and told my neghbor to file a uninsured motorists claim. The car was a 1990 jeep and he only had plpd on it so he was out the money. I asked the cop why the guy was not arrested and the cop says because he will not show up to court. It appears that if a person is illegally in the country it is ok to drive without DL and ins but if your a citizen and do that you go to jail. I don't get it.

[ncsuhort01]

I agree completely with Jim.
My company is one of those "large LCO's" some posters are complaining about.
My response to that is after 172 employees, over 92% of which were WASP's, I damn near went out of business due to rampant theft, poor performance with subsequent lack of finished services, and drug use.
My crews consist of three white foremen and the remaining are Hispanic gentlemen.
I pay well above prevailing wage plus provide total reimbursement for uniforms, boots, socks, jackets while providing and enforcing the use of relevant safety gear.
I do see unlicensed LCO's in my area, both Caucasian and other races/creeds.
Does it both me?
Not one damned bit!
Why? - I'll tell you why.
Sell your business model properly and appropriately, alter your business to fit the demands of your target demographic, and learn how to run your business profitably and these "illegals" everyone is complaining about cease to be a problem.
Provided one is not capable of concise market positioning, one is doomed to compete with lowballers, scrubs, illegals, call 'em what you want - BUT YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO SEPARATE YOUR BUSINESS FROM THIS TYPE OF COMPETITION!
If I took my business from $60K gross my first year to over $600K in under eight years, you can too.
Simply acquire a business mindset, understand your market, and position your business accordingly, then you won't have the "illegal" competition anymore.

this is by far one of the most intelligent post I have seen on this site to date. Illegals or not, this is the hand where dealt, no matter what you think about it, we still have to go out and perform the best service we can and make a dollar

[AI Inc]

So , lets talk Cubans. Once they set foot on American soil they can legaly stay. Comments?

[Stillwater]

Cuba is/was ruled by brutal dictator Fidel Castro, Cuba is considered a rouge state their given political asylum as a means to undermine the Communist dictatorship. It is not automatic a background check is made if they don't pass they get flown back to the US. military base on Cuba and released.

[B_gerrits]

So , lets talk Cubans. Once they set foot on American soil they can legaly stay. Comments?

Very few places has ethinic background even been mentioned Illegal aliens are Illegal aliens no matter what country they come from and should all treated the same.

[Stillwater]

Very few places has ethinic background even been mentioned Illegal aliens are Illegal aliens no matter what country they come from and should all treated the same.

Agreed.........

[yogibear805]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww you people are so sick,
here in california they do very good helping out ,that way our produce can be sell in the stores, and they work hard.

[Stillwater]

:dizzy: our produce can be sell in the stores? :dizzy:

Hey Boo Boo... "We" are not sick... your english is

[B_gerrits]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww you people are so sick,
here in california they do very good helping out ,that way our produce can be sell in the stores, and they work hard.

I am so sick of hearing how they work so hard some do and some have the sorriest workers I have ever seen. The illegals here don't want to work the fields anymore and the field workers use to come up as migrate workers legally and go home when the work was done that isn't the case anymore either. A lot of people are getting fed up with this problem. It is time to put an end to the invasion!

[Stillwater]

But But But.... B gerrits our produce can be sell in stores

What a piece of work........

[nylan8888]

Honestly; You wanna know what's killing our economy? :angry:

Spoiled rotten Nintendo brats with their gas scooters, top of the line clothing, laptops, razors, and pimped out hooptie rides whose parents buy everything for them and never taught them how to earn an honest dollar in their lives. So jobs that young people used to be willing to do (like SCAPIN', fast food, bailing hay, warehouse, etc.) - now they won't touch a "dirty" job like that. He||, their fathers don't even make them care for their own landscape most of the time. They prefer to sit around home all day and night playing Nintendo and messing around on MySpace until they're 20 years old or so.

90% of our youth have ZERO work ethic. They believe they're too good to get dirty or do any hard labor. And their damm parents perpetuate it! Mommy thinks it's just too hot for little Tommy to have to work outside in this heat. "Don't worry, Tommy. Here's some spending money. Go to the mall with your friends and have some fun. You don't have to do any of that messy work stuff."

All of you who are so against cheap immigrant labor I doubt have had much experience with the other kind. I would bet any of you that more legal american kids go through our company each year than you've ever had work for you in your company's entire lifespan. Oh, I'll still hire the guys. Still hoping maybe I'll find one with some heart and willingness to even just show up on a daily basis. I've tried paying them higher than normal wages for this area. I've tried everything. They simply don't want to do this kind of work. And it all goes back to how they were raised. You can't take a 22 year old whose never had to do a hard day of labor in his life and throw him into landscape construction or 10 hour days of maintenance. It's gonna fail every time! No matter what you pay! He ain't cut out for it!!!

But I wish they were. I wish you could still hire hard working American citizens to do the work we do. But unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last 10-20 years - you had to have noticed; THERE AIN'T TOO MANY LIKE THAT ANY MORE. THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON WHY EMPLOYERS RESORT TO USING IMMIGRANT LABOR!

It's not like 15 years ago all the employers were all making great profit, rolling in the dough, and then one day said to themselves, "You know what? We're making a good 15% profit margin right now. But dammit. I want to be richer. I bet if I hired some foreign immigrants who can't speak the language - I bet I could pay them waaaay less and then we'd be makin' 30% profit!!! "He||s bells, Mabel! I figured it out! We'z gonna be rich! I'm a firin' all these here white folk and hirin' me up some Mexicans!" payup

No! That didn't happen. What happened was as america started to prosper and families didn't need as much money coming in, parents decided youth shouldn't have to work until after they got out of college. And the more that happened, the more a void occurred. And we filled that void with the only people who WERE happy to do the work - immigrants.

So don't blame them for our economy. Blame lazy freakin' americans. Thank God my parents made me take hard manual labor jobs when I was a kid. The guy my mom was married to when I was growing up was the only orthepedic surgeon in the county. He was making over $300,000 a year back in the 80's. That was some serious dough! I didn't HAVE to work. But thank God my parents made me get manual labor jobs regardless. When I was 15, I spent the entire summer on my knees in my grandfather's nursery pulling weeds among the tree seedling rows for minimum wage - 40 hours a week - all freakin' summer. And you think it was easy because I was working for family? He|| no! My grandfather was an angry a-hole 90% of the time and took most of his frustrations out on family. It was tough freakin' work. But I always took on jobs like that growing up and throughout college. And I thank God and my parents for that. I learned two things from those experiences. I learned what I didn't want to do the rest of my life. But I also learned how to bust hump when the time comes.

Unfortunately, most parents don't do that any more. Heck, I'd be happy if parents just made their kids take a part time job bailing hay for half the summer. Just SOMETHING to teach them a little work ethic. But if you wanna blame someone -blame the lazy americans. We all want everything done for us for cheap. But we bemoan the very group of people who make it happen for us.



Unbelievable.


.

Man, that says it all right there.

[lawnprosteveo]

Well in Texas we are getting the ones tossed out of Oklahoma, and Arizona....whatever New Mexico is doing is also pushing them down our throats...better learn spanish fast......
State bill 1804 has really done alot to cut back on illegal immigration here in Oklahoma. From what I hear its one of the toughest laws in the nation. Im sure we still have contractors using illegals, but they are taking a HUGE risk. Also, alot of the illegals have left fearing their jobsites will be checked and they will be deported.

[calandscaper]

Yeah, apparently you don't need to obey laws and pay taxes if you work hard and do a good job. -Unbelievable

[mowzum]

better learn spanish folks. It's here and not going to go away and that is a fact I'm trying to learn right now. It's a matter of survival IMO

[Toy2]

I oversee these mexicians daily, they work hard in the heat, concrete, digging, road work, etc...

Many have false papers, they told me, they know I can only report it, but chances they will get in any trouble are far and few.

Yet, the main sub-contractors are making a killing on the job, goverment work, these mexicans making $7 to $10 a hour, as if they were slaves!!!!!

We really screwed ourselves, glad I know spanish, really am!!!

[B_gerrits]

better learn spanish folks. It's here and not going to go away and that is a fact I'm trying to learn right now. It's a matter of survival IMO

I so don't understand this. They invade our country illegally and we are suppose to learn their language?

[TwistedSister]

Noventa ocho punto cinco y ciento tres punto tres.

"Ninety eight point five and one hundred three point three" - Got a B+ in Spanish II. Just took my final last week.:weightlifter:

[k911lowe]

How are the illegals in your area. In my area every company out there is hiring them and prices are dropping and I can hardly keep up. Not trying to offend anyone but come on. :usflag:
whah,whah,whah.we have had them here longer than i have been here.quit whining and get to work.