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View Full Version : Illegal companies?


dobberjeff
02-26-2008, 01:44 AM
What do you guys do about people who use child labor and opperate without any licenses or insurance? They really bother me. I know a guy who says "my boy is just a 17 year old kid mowing lawns to help old ladies." Thing is I'm just a 26 yr old doing the sme thing and trying to make a living. All the expences I pay that he does not would sure be nice to get back. What is the industry standard for this? Turn him in or look away?:nono:

Landrus2
02-26-2008, 07:22 AM
Donít let it bother you look way.:waving:

qualitycut
02-26-2008, 07:58 AM
Does it seem like he is affecting your company or taking your customers?

cfrymow
02-26-2008, 08:12 AM
Don't let it bother you, Most people like that think this work is going to be a cake walk, then they start to sweet and run back home to mommy :cry:
If it starts hurting you then turn him in. No bought about it.

sikagrass
02-26-2008, 09:13 AM
Did you ever cut lawns for extra cash when you were a kid? I know I did.No barrier to entry is the biggest challenge we have, its always been here and always will.

davis45
02-26-2008, 09:21 AM
Same position here. An older guy here in town, about 50-55 years old. No insurance, no taxes, no pestecide license but he has chemicals on his trailer at all times. He mows a couple of larger retirement homes in which i could never win the bid due to the fact he is on the village board. It's hard to get jobs when he will go mow an acre property for $15 and spray with no license.

gandk06
02-26-2008, 09:32 AM
You will waste more time trying to track these people down and reporting them than doing your job. You will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out who is legit and who is not. Just do your job and let the other guys who are illegal fail on their own.

equip4u
02-26-2008, 09:34 AM
Would you rather have this teenager going around slashing you tires and being a menace to society instead? IMO U.S. crime rate would sharply decrease if they would get these teenagers to work instead of lounging around. "Idleness is the devil's workshop" just my .02

coonman
02-26-2008, 10:26 AM
There have always been neighborhood kids cutting their neighbors lawns since I can remember and I am 44. In fact I was one of them. I used to cut my grandmothers lawn and two of her neighbors. If they want the kid to cut their lawn, there is nothing anyone can do about it, so why worry about it. I always here everyone complain that people have an advantage because they don't have insurance. Here in OK there is no law that I know about that requires someone to have it, but even if you do it is not enough to make much of a difference in your costs. Mine costs a whopping $35 a month for a 1million dollar policy. As far as taxes go, I guess its ok to get tax free money, but its also very nice to be able to write off everything under the sun related to your business. If you watch your costs and do a good job, these people should be no threat to your business.

KeystoneLawn&Landscaping
02-26-2008, 10:42 AM
Would you rather have this teenager going around slashing you tires and being a menace to society instead? IMO U.S. crime rate would sharply decrease if they would get these teenagers to work instead of lounging around. "Idleness is the devil's workshop" just my .02

I couldn't agree more! Also, if they cut your neighbors lawn as a teen then maybe they would work for us as a employee when they turn 18!

packey
02-26-2008, 12:20 PM
Hey learn what you are talking about first. child labor laws do not have any bearing on a pre teen who decides to go out and mow lawns for a few bucks. Matter of fact if he was doing a good job I would keep an eye on him he might be your next most valuable employee. I started out when I was 10 mowing my granparents lawn with a 21 inch high wheel lawn mower 20 years ago. It seemed to take me all day but for 15 dollars I though I was in the money. You know I took that money and bought my first self propelled lawn mower. a second hand yazoo 24 inch master cut. The next spring I mowed my grandmothers and two neighbors lawns. I guess at what I am trying to say is that let the kids work. If they will work it will make them more valued employees later. Oh yeah in most states and most towns it is legal for a kid under 16 to mow the lawns for pay without insurance.

gmanlq
02-26-2008, 12:45 PM
There have always been neighborhood kids cutting their neighbors lawns since I can remember and I am 44. In fact I was one of them. I used to cut my grandmothers lawn and two of her neighbors. If they want the kid to cut their lawn, there is nothing anyone can do about it, so why worry about it. I always here everyone complain that people have an advantage because they don't have insurance. Here in OK there is no law that I know about that requires someone to have it, but even if you do it is not enough to make much of a difference in your costs. Mine costs a whopping $35 a month for a 1million dollar policy. As far as taxes go, I guess its ok to get tax free money, but its also very nice to be able to write off everything under the sun related to your business. If you watch your costs and do a good job, these people should be no threat to your business.
That rate sounds great. I'm paying $650/year for $1 Million. Can you give me the contact info. for your insurance as I might want to switch?

Wilson Edge
02-26-2008, 01:15 PM
I am one of those people you talk about. Ive worked for the last 6 years unlicensed and uninsured. But i just turned 18 last week and I have gotten everything set up. 2 million dollar insurance policy. Fully Licensed. Its people that freak out if im making some extra bucks just because they dont want any competition. Well i am now the competition in town and people who have pissed and moaned before better watch out.

BLC1
02-26-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't think kids doing their neighbors lawns are a real big deal or big threat. The ones that are, are the guys out there acting like they are running a business but have no idea about their costs and usually don't have many for that matter.

I would guess there is a larger percantage of people out there doing this than most people would think.

lawnpro724
02-26-2008, 01:44 PM
Most around here that are out mowing that are not businesses legit or not are people who lost there jobs when most of the plants around here closed. Those who lost their job do work but now for about half of what they did before so they mow lawns in summer to supplement their income. I see nothing wrong with what they are doing, their just trying to support their families on half the income they used to have. Its another story if you see someone out mowing with signs all over their truck and advertisements everywhere that are not insured but should be and the same goes for being licensed.

p0wd3rp1l0t
02-26-2008, 01:56 PM
I am one of those people you talk about. Ive worked for the last 6 years unlicensed and uninsured. But i just turned 18 last week and I have gotten everything set up. 2 million dollar insurance policy. Fully Licensed. Its people that freak out if im making some extra bucks just because they dont want any competition. Well i am now the competition in town and people who have pissed and moaned before better watch out.

i was also one of those people and as soon as i turned 18 i set everything up. fully licensed and fully insured. if there not bothering you then dont worry bout it. i personally dont have time to watch out for every tom, dick and harry that pulls a lawn mower on a trailer to see if they are licensed to actually be doing what they advertise for.

Armadillolawncare
02-26-2008, 05:14 PM
I'd love to be at $650 a month for insurance. I pay $1200 a year for 1 mil in liability insurance.

coonman
02-26-2008, 11:14 PM
That rate sounds great. I'm paying $650/year for $1 Million. Can you give me the contact info. for your insurance as I might want to switch?

McMasters Insurance Counselors.

918-224-5666.

txgrassguy
02-27-2008, 12:27 AM
I'd love to be at $650 a month for insurance. I pay $1200 a year for 1 mil in liability insurance.

Try over $8000 for $2M in liability and workmans comp.
Hey, it is better than '07 when the bill was over $13,000.
Got a rebate for being accident/claim free for over five years.
Still brutal though.

gmanlq
02-27-2008, 09:44 AM
McMasters Insurance Counselors.

918-224-5666.Many thanks.

jkingrph
02-27-2008, 10:33 AM
I'm 62 and when a youngster the only folks out there mowing in our neighborhood were the kids. Never saw a " commercial" operator.

BLC1
02-27-2008, 12:02 PM
8000! How many employees is that covering.

muxx
02-27-2008, 12:10 PM
I encourage them to use teenagers. Eventually the kid grows up and moves on then I am there to do the work. I have had alot of customers like that.:cool2:

Lawnut101
02-27-2008, 12:30 PM
The reality is that the kind of contracts that type of kid picks up, I wouldn't want them anyway. No elderly person around here pays for anything. And yes, I'm 18, but I'm fully legal.

lawnpro724
02-27-2008, 01:49 PM
8000! How many employees is that covering.


Around here if you have one person on payroll making $22,000 a year workers comp alone is $3,000 a year and 1 million in liability runs $548 a year and then the joys of paying payroll taxes, unemployment insurance and all the other BS you have to pay to have an employee. So if I have to guess $8000 only covers 2 full time employees and maybe 1 part time employee. Workers comp is based on payroll so if you have only 1 full time and 1 part time guy working and payroll is around $45,000 here you would be paying $7,000 a year.

BLC1
02-27-2008, 04:32 PM
I'm suprised there isn't another option for this insurance. Well i guess not really suprised you would just think there would be.

verant
02-27-2008, 05:57 PM
I don't have a "business license" because this industry isn't going to be my job after college. It's just something I work hard at for fall and spring clean ups and summer mowing, 25-30 accounts. I've never been asked by my residentials if i had a license or insurance. In my area, people aren't concerned about that unless it's a big commercial account, which i totally agree with. If I planed to be in this industry for my career, I would definitely get a license.

mowcrazy
02-27-2008, 11:49 PM
here is my .02 on this issue. yeah the kids are out there out cutting grass for a few bucks does suck in a way but it do love to see kids out there wanting to work. EXAMPLE of why this sucks: I have a lot of this going on in the town that i live in and the problem is that when these kids are mowing someones yard for 15 dollars and it takes them 2 hours to get it done. All of a sudden the kid either doesnt show up or else does such a pitifull job that they have to call someone else. When my Phone rings and I show up and give them an estimate they look at me like i am a freakin allien. That does ruin these jobs for the guy out there wanting to actually make a living mowing grass. I WILL TELL YOU WHAT REALLY BOILS MY BLOOD NOW, when some guy in his thirties is out with a riding mower pulling a trailer behind it with a weedeater and a can of gass all over town mowing tons of yards for little to nothing. We have a few guys in the nearby towns that do this. Nothing makes me madder than when these people go in and mow for next to nothing and when decide to not show up I am the one that gets punished for it because the estimate I give is 5-6 times higher than what "The other guy did it for". Yes it may seem a little strange that this would irritate me but it happens on a daily basis around here and I never get the jobs because they think im trying to rip them off. I myself charge $60.00 per hr to mow. Just think about it by the time you figure in sales tax, income tax, upkeep on commercial equipment, GAS, trimmers, blowers, trailers, truck etc you are lucky to pocket $35.00 per hr from That $60 hourly you were charging. Oh yeah and as mentioned above insurance. A lot of people dont think of there truck as being a part of there lawn care business but let me tell ya if i werent in lawn care, i would be driving a small car that got 40 miles to the gallon so Every penny i spend on a truck I consider 100 percent for the business. I Have broke it down on paper before and My calculations say that I would actually make just over half of what you charge hourly at $60 per hour. I don't evan drive a very expensive truck either, Im not sure how some of you guys are driving brand new diesel 4x4 trucks, but you must be doing something right. Ill give you a perfect example of what im talking about, a local lawncare business in my area went out and bought a new ford truck, 2 new lazer z mowers and all new trimmers etc. The owner operator of the business wanted to know if I thought that $35.00 dollars an hour was to low or to high. Hell yeah its to low i told him. the owner didnt listen, he did get a hell of a bunch of jobs but guess what after 2 years not only did he go out of business but he is now filing bankrupcy also. I mean think about how much grass you would have to mow to pay payments on 2 lazer zs a new truck, trailer,trimmers, blowers etc. at $35.00 dollars an hour, not to mention figuring your fuel. Well guess what, now that the accounts are free and clear I have gotten a few Phone calls for estimates on those same accounts, and once again they tell me to go piss up a rope cause Im almost twice as high as the guy before. Guess that is why I have had a very successful business for 10 years and the guys out there ruining it for everybody else is Where, before long or already out of business. Figure all your expenses etc and charging $35.00 per hour, i Think people would be surprised at how much there really making in the end. From what ive seen it is just enough to put someone out of business. Sorry just thought I would be a good time for me to vent. It must not bug me to bad, I love mowing and Dont see myself doing anything different in the near future.

dobberjeff
02-28-2008, 12:12 AM
Mowcrazy hit the nail on the head with that! Simply put, all of those guys working illegally are cutting our throwts! I fully support kids working I got my first job at 13 on the farm, but if they are going to be working they need to be working for someone else not ruining it for us!

BLC1
02-28-2008, 09:18 AM
But what can be done to change this. Do you have the time or even know how to go about getting these guys out of there? It sounds like most everybody is doing fairly well and these guys are probably taking the customers you wouldn't want anyway. They are most likely the price shoppers who would think you were crazy if you were the only one to give them a bid.

delphied
02-28-2008, 10:38 AM
Most around here that are out mowing that are not businesses legit or not are people who lost there jobs when most of the plants around here closed. Those who lost their job do work but now for about half of what they did before so they mow lawns in summer to supplement their income. I see nothing wrong with what they are doing, their just trying to support their families on half the income they used to have. Its another story if you see someone out mowing with signs all over their truck and advertisements everywhere that are not insured but should be and the same goes for being licensed.

This would include me but I went legit. Kinda wondering why I did go legitimate now. I cant afford to lose what I have in a lawsuit I guess. Lets face it, if I got sued the lawyers would prolly take my insurance and everything else to boot.