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TomberLawn
02-29-2008, 08:13 PM
Now, don't pick on me yet, I'm not about to buy one. I just wondered if anybody had seen these in Sears lately. 52", 26hp Briggs ELS, $6299. I think that is a bit pricey for a mower with no commercial history. If it was just under $5000, I could see some part-timers getting one, but you can get a brand-name commercial mower for less than $6300. I wonder who is manufacturing this mower for Craftsman. Any ideas?

nosparkplugs
02-29-2008, 08:16 PM
Thats expensive for a cheap person

sikagrass
02-29-2008, 08:29 PM
Havent seen one of those yet but I saw the WB they had. About 1100 dollars for it.

nosparkplugs
02-29-2008, 08:35 PM
Walkbehinds are becomeing like Dino's, I have mine in storage, research shows they cause fatigue & increased injuries, Quoted from Workmen Comp Claim Data.

Richard Martin
02-29-2008, 08:40 PM
It kinda looks like a Black Rock, Landscaper Supply type of Chinese import. Both of those companies were "importing" ZTRs a while back. It might be that someone dusted off the prints and slapped the Craftsman name on them. I'm probably wrong.

1080p
02-29-2008, 08:45 PM
I have heard that craftsman is coming out with a "pro" series line. Talked to my local rep for various product and that got brought up.

He said that the same manufactor of the Lesco brand is in the mix.

nothing like competition to keep the prices in check

DLCS
02-29-2008, 09:07 PM
I too think that its a copy of the Black Rock ZTR. Strange they put the deck lift peddal on the left side.

Green King
02-29-2008, 09:08 PM
It is a bobcat!

DLCS
02-29-2008, 09:34 PM
It is a bobcat!




I think you are right. Pro Cat Estate? http://www.bobcatturf.com/products/ztm/pro_cat_estate_series/index.html

lawnkingforever
02-29-2008, 09:41 PM
Don't flame me down. For res. use only, there tractors have always held up OK. After cutting with a 36"WB all day, the last thing I want to do is use that for my 2 acres that need mowed. My tractor is over 5 years old and never has been to the shop once. I don't know about the other stuff but Craftsman tractors are a good piece of equipment for res. use.

lawnpro724
02-29-2008, 09:57 PM
It is a bobcat!

Yeah it looks just like the Bobcat that a friend of mine has just different color.

lawnkingforever
02-29-2008, 10:13 PM
1080P is right about the proseries. Went to Sears website to look at the ZT and they also had a commercial 36WB(3000$), backpack blower, and a couple of weedeaters.

J&R Landscaping
02-29-2008, 10:19 PM
It is a bobcat!


Bobcat Fastcat. I knew when I saw it something looked familiar... Thats pricey even still. My dealer has the 48" 19hp kawi for 4995.00

lifetree
02-29-2008, 10:26 PM
I wouldn't buy a craftsman comercial machine right out of the gate, I'd give it a year or 2 first, to see how it does.

Zooropa93
02-29-2008, 10:27 PM
Don't flame me down. For res. use only, there tractors have always held up OK. After cutting with a 36"WB all day, the last thing I want to do is use that for my 2 acres that need mowed. My tractor is over 5 years old and never has been to the shop once. I don't know about the other stuff but Craftsman tractors are a good piece of equipment for res. use.

Sears lawn tractors are AYP made (husqvarna owned). As for the price on that Z mower, for only a little bit more they could be in a Scag Tiger Cub, or another major brand. I can only hope that the unit in question is not a Bobcat as I've heard mention of. I would only hope that they would not stoop to the level of making a dealer grade product for the mass merchants who offer no service as other manufacturers have.

newz7151
02-29-2008, 11:14 PM
I would only hope that they would not stoop to the level of making a dealer grade product for the mass merchants who offer no service as other manufacturers have.


Oh, but Sears DOES have service, that's why they were able to get Snapper too. I just can't wait to see what their service centers are going to do though with all this new equipment starts flooding in after homeowners see that "commercial" label and think they can beat it to heck. Or the commercial guy buys it and a pulley freezes up or a transmission goes out and they're waiting a week or two for the Sears repair system to get their mower fixed. Oh, wait, I'm sure that with all the mowers, Sears will have loaners available for the guy to keep making his money just like the real professional equipment dealers do. Honestly, the move into this kind of equipment is just another attempt by Sears to keep themselves from continuing to lose money and have to close down stores. I mean come on.. they bought K-Mart for God's sake (or was it the other way around?) I'm surprised there was never some lawsuit by Wal-Mart when K-"Mart" came out.

mowerbrad
02-29-2008, 11:35 PM
It is a bobcat!

It looks very very similar to my bob-cat 218es, just a different color.

Lawn Enforcer
02-29-2008, 11:45 PM
Oh, but Sears DOES have service, that's why they were able to get Snapper too. I just can't wait to see what their service centers are going to do though with all this new equipment starts flooding in after homeowners see that "commercial" label and think they can beat it to heck. Or the commercial guy buys it and a pulley freezes up or a transmission goes out and they're waiting a week or two for the Sears repair system to get their mower fixed. Oh, wait, I'm sure that with all the mowers, Sears will have loaners available for the guy to keep making his money just like the real professional equipment dealers do. Honestly, the move into this kind of equipment is just another attempt by Sears to keep themselves from continuing to lose money and have to close down stores. I mean come on.. they bought K-Mart for God's sake (or was it the other way around?) I'm surprised there was never some lawsuit by Wal-Mart when K-"Mart" came out.

My Dad works for K-Mart. K-Mart sold its corporate offices to Sears, and then K-Mart used that money to buy Sears. It's complicated. Sears wanted K-Mart for their distribution system.

02DURAMAX
02-29-2008, 11:53 PM
I'd like too see how long one would last with no problems..

newz7151
03-01-2008, 12:30 AM
My Dad works for K-Mart. K-Mart sold its corporate offices to Sears, and then K-Mart used that money to buy Sears. It's complicated. Sears wanted K-Mart for their distribution system.

Hey, that's great to know! Ask him if he'll buy my 130 KMRTQ .

tb8100
03-01-2008, 03:08 AM
I would never buy from a box store just because they are completely incompetent. I would rather buy from a dealer that knew his stuff about his product. Bet the dealer 9 times out of 10 will have the parts I need or will be able to get them
faster.

$3000 for their 36" WB is too much. That is exactly what we sell our 36" Scags for. Which would you rather drive? A Scag or Sears Crapsman?

mowing grass 1111
03-01-2008, 03:23 AM
for an extra $600 i would buy a hustler 25/60 for $6,900

T Total Lawncare
03-01-2008, 03:51 PM
Sears lawn tractors are AYP made (husqvarna owned). As for the price on that Z mower, for only a little bit more they could be in a Scag Tiger Cub, or another major brand. I can only hope that the unit in question is not a Bobcat as I've heard mention of. I would only hope that they would not stoop to the level of making a dealer grade product for the mass merchants who offer no service as other manufacturers have.

I'm afraid Bobcat did stoop as you call it. Looks like Sears is trying to get a piece of the pie as well. I'm pretty sure the mower will serve it's purpose for what it was intended for, residental and light commercial if it's the Bobcat(which it is). The Craftsman stickers aren't going to voo doo the machine. I see some guys cutting with a lot less than that. Some folks won't spend 7000 plus for a commercial rig, and do pretty well with some stuff we would call junk and I'm not going to put them down because they don't spend as much as I will. Either way don't let the stickers scare you as I'm sure the big timers would look at someone twice if they saw them on it at a job but the customer won't more than likely give a flip. As far as sears goes, around here they contract all there work out on there mowers to some full time mower mechanics that around here do about as good a job as the dealer mechanics. And when you say someone could pay a little more and get a major brand, sometimes a little bit turns into quite a bit when you add interest if it is financed. I guess it all just comes down to what someone has got to spend and what are they going to use it for.

bohiaa
03-01-2008, 04:58 PM
go get it,,,, use it for a season then report back

T Total Lawncare
03-01-2008, 05:15 PM
Got other things that need paying for at the time, and don't need another Z. But I wouldn't be all ooooooooooooohhh you got a crapsman! if somebody had one though. I would be interested in hearing what someone had to say that owned the Bobcat version.

Zooropa93
03-01-2008, 06:06 PM
I'm afraid Bobcat did stoop as you call it. Looks like Sears is trying to get a piece of the pie as well. I'm pretty sure the mower will serve it's purpose for what it was intended for, residental and light commercial if it's the Bobcat(which it is). The Craftsman stickers aren't going to voo doo the machine. I see some guys cutting with a lot less than that. Some folks won't spend 7000 plus for a commercial rig, and do pretty well with some stuff we would call junk and I'm not going to put them down because they don't spend as much as I will. Either way don't let the stickers scare you as I'm sure the big timers would look at someone twice if they saw them on it at a job but the customer won't more than likely give a flip. As far as sears goes, around here they contract all there work out on there mowers to some full time mower mechanics that around here do about as good a job as the dealer mechanics. And when you say someone could pay a little more and get a major brand, sometimes a little bit turns into quite a bit when you add interest if it is financed. I guess it all just comes down to what someone has got to spend and what are they going to use it for.

In my opinion Bobcat is doing their dealers a disservice by making this unit for Sears. Same thing in handheld equipment with Shindaiwa making C4 units to be sold as Swsher. A Shindaiwa dealer is not allowed to sell on the internet but Swisher is allowed to sell their Shindaiwa units however they please. Something isnt right with that picture imo.

T Total Lawncare
03-01-2008, 08:00 PM
In my opinion Bobcat is doing their dealers a disservice by making this unit for Sears. Same thing in handheld equipment with Shindaiwa making C4 units to be sold as Swsher. A Shindaiwa dealer is not allowed to sell on the internet but Swisher is allowed to sell their Shindaiwa units however they please. Something isnt right with that picture imo.

I get what your saying for sure but you know that $$$ rules the world. If Bobcat is not selling enough of that model under their name with only their dealerships, I guess they figure Craftsman can knock off a few bucks paint the deck yellow and slap some stickers on it and move some of their product for them. I'm sure there are a lot more Sears stores in the country than there are Bobcat dealerships so I recond they will hit a bigger market.

Also Joe Blow might want a machine with the quality of the Bobcat name. The closest Bobcat dealer may be 100 miles away but the closest Sears might be 5 minutes. Who am I to say that he can't have the Bobcat quality mower in a different color with the dreaded Craftsman name on it. If he can live with the risk of dealing with Sears then so can I.

As far as Shindawa goes, that's not right. There going to have to loosen up on their sales policy, thats their own fault. We live in a computer world and with the way gas prices are I might not be as inclined to buy one over say a local Stihl if I have to drive a good ways. They should let it be known we will sell it to you but your going to be on your own with it if you have to come in for work on it.

Sweet Tater
03-01-2008, 09:47 PM
I'm surprised there was never some lawsuit by Wal-Mart when K-"Mart" came out.

Actually, I believe K-mart came first.

lawnpro724
03-01-2008, 10:01 PM
Actually, I believe K-mart came first.

Yeah, K-Mart was king long before Walmart came along and took over.

Zooropa93
03-01-2008, 10:19 PM
I get what your saying for sure but you know that $$$ rules the world. If Bobcat is not selling enough of that model under their name with only their dealerships, I guess they figure Craftsman can knock off a few bucks paint the deck yellow and slap some stickers on it and move some of their product for them. I'm sure there are a lot more Sears stores in the country than there are Bobcat dealerships so I recond they will hit a bigger market.

Also Joe Blow might want a machine with the quality of the Bobcat name. The closest Bobcat dealer may be 100 miles away but the closest Sears might be 5 minutes. Who am I to say that he can't have the Bobcat quality mower in a different color with the dreaded Craftsman name on it. If he can live with the risk of dealing with Sears then so can I.

As far as Shindawa goes, that's not right. There going to have to loosen up on their sales policy, thats their own fault. We live in a computer world and with the way gas prices are I might not be as inclined to buy one over say a local Stihl if I have to drive a good ways. They should let it be known we will sell it to you but your going to be on your own with it if you have to come in for work on it.

Most of the major handheld brands don't allow internet sales. I handle stihl, husqvarna and honda trimmers and Stihl and Honda don't allow internet sales. Husky allows only the entry level consumer models via internet. Redmax and Echo don't allow online sales either.

As for the Bobcat/Craftsman ya got a good point, but I feel like there wouldn't be as much of an an issue of being 100 miles away from a dealer if the manufactures had not been sh***ing on their dealers the last number of years. A dealer's profit on a unit sold is and has been shrinking for years. I can go back even as recent as 3 years ago and look at our sales programs and see that we made 2-3% more per unit than we do now with several lines. And it's not like the end user is seeing any benefit, because your price isn't going down as our profit goes down, it's the manufacturer and distributor taking a larger and larger share of the pie and it's killing off a lot of servicing dealers, especially smaller and mid size dealers. I can see a time when the only way for a dealer to operate will be direct with the manufacturer and the distributor goes by the wayside. Anyways...enough of my ranting for now.

DCE
03-01-2008, 10:58 PM
Wow...never would I have thought I'd see the day that Craftsman would come out with something of this grade! I too think it looks like a BOB-CAT. Interesting...wonder what's next. A dual hydro? :laugh:

TomberLawn
03-01-2008, 11:11 PM
Does anybody know the price of the Bob-Cat model? I hope it is less than $6300, because my local Bob-Cat dealer sells the commercial Pro-Cat (not Estate Series) with a 48" deck for about $5000. Why would anybody spend an extra $1300 for a lesser-grade machine just because it has a 4" wider deck? I think Sears missed the price point on this one. The 33" walk behind from Craftsman is $100 less than the same 33" unit from Cub Cadet (the Cub does have an hour gauge and electric start). At $1100, that isn't a bad buy, but $6300 is too much. I think they'd sell some if they were just above or below $5000. A Deere 717A or Ferris IS1500 can be bought for just a couple hundred more than the Craftsman!

T Total Lawncare
03-01-2008, 11:33 PM
Does anybody know the price of the Bob-Cat model? I hope it is less than $6300, because my local Bob-Cat dealer sells the commercial Pro-Cat (not Estate Series) with a 48" deck for about $5000. Why would anybody spend an extra $1300 for a lesser-grade machine just because it has a 4" wider deck? I think Sears missed the price point on this one. The 33" walk behind from Craftsman is $100 less than the same 33" unit from Cub Cadet (the Cub does have an hour gauge and electric start). At $1100, that isn't a bad buy, but $6300 is too much. I think they'd sell some if they were just above or below $5000. A Deere 717A or Ferris IS1500 can be bought for just a couple hundred more than the Craftsman!


I agree that 6300 is a little high for a semi commercial. Surely they might knock a little off of that. If not a Bobcat dealer has little to worry about because most will price them with some wiggle room.

T Total Lawncare
03-01-2008, 11:36 PM
Most of the major handheld brands don't allow internet sales. I handle stihl, husqvarna and honda trimmers and Stihl and Honda don't allow internet sales. Husky allows only the entry level consumer models via internet. Redmax and Echo don't allow online sales either.

As for the Bobcat/Craftsman ya got a good point, but I feel like there wouldn't be as much of an an issue of being 100 miles away from a dealer if the manufactures had not been sh***ing on their dealers the last number of years. A dealer's profit on a unit sold is and has been shrinking for years. I can go back even as recent as 3 years ago and look at our sales programs and see that we made 2-3% more per unit than we do now with several lines. And it's not like the end user is seeing any benefit, because your price isn't going down as our profit goes down, it's the manufacturer and distributor taking a larger and larger share of the pie and it's killing off a lot of servicing dealers, especially smaller and mid size dealers. I can see a time when the only way for a dealer to operate will be direct with the manufacturer and the distributor goes by the wayside. Anyways...enough of my ranting for now.

You can go to www.sleequipment.com and get about any Husky eqipment you want shipped to your door. But they are not a box store as they are called. They used to sell all the Redmax as well but stopped. You can also get Z's from them.

grass-scapes
03-01-2008, 11:53 PM
I thought it looked like a Cub at first, but it does resemble the Bob-Cat.

newz7151
03-02-2008, 12:23 AM
Same thing in handheld equipment with Shindaiwa making C4 units to be sold as Swsher. A Shindaiwa dealer is not allowed to sell on the internet but Swisher is allowed to sell their Shindaiwa units however they please. Something isnt right with that picture imo.

The Shindaiwa/Swisher deal is a win/win for Shindaiwa dealers. It helps Shindaiwa produce and sell (to Swisher) enough of the compliant C4 engines to gain credits to continue to produce and sell the regular 2 cycle stuff through the Shindaiwa dealers, and it increases the service opportunities since Shindaiwa dealers will be doing the warranty work and other repairs on the Swisher units. The Swisher units are supposed to be Red/Black.

In my opinion, the "no online/mail order" Shindaiwa policy just needs to be enforced stronger and eliminate the dealers that are breaking the agreement by selling and shipping online through ebay and other avenues.

Shindaiwa is a premium brand, and premium brands should not be sold as general crap through the internet.

tb8100
03-02-2008, 12:58 AM
I looked at the WB at Sears last night. One thing I thought that was neat about it (about the only thing) was an ultra thick cast iron bumper over the span of the deck between the casters. It would be near impossible to screw up the front of that deck (that's not saying anything for the rest of the deck but anyway).

Still overpriced for a box store mower.

Zooropa93
03-02-2008, 01:39 AM
You can go to www.sleequipment.com and get about any Husky eqipment you want shipped to your door. But they are not a box store as they are called. They used to sell all the Redmax as well but stopped. You can also get Z's from them.

I've heard of SLE before and been hearing that husky has threatened to pull the line from them if they don't stop selling via the internet. It took a while but they got Bailey's to stop selling chainsaws and trimmers online so maybe that will end too. Northern tool is the only vendor Husky allows to sell online. I personally don't believe any new Z mower from any brand should be sold online. If the retailer can't service it locally they have no business selling it in my opinon.

Zooropa93
03-02-2008, 01:46 AM
The Shindaiwa/Swisher deal is a win/win for Shindaiwa dealers. It helps Shindaiwa produce and sell (to Swisher) enough of the compliant C4 engines to gain credits to continue to produce and sell the regular 2 cycle stuff through the Shindaiwa dealers, and it increases the service opportunities since Shindaiwa dealers will be doing the warranty work and other repairs on the Swisher units. The Swisher units are supposed to be Red/Black.

In my opinion, the "no online/mail order" Shindaiwa policy just needs to be enforced stronger and eliminate the dealers that are breaking the agreement by selling and shipping online through ebay and other avenues.

Shindaiwa is a premium brand, and premium brands should not be sold as general crap through the internet.

On the topic of emissions...I wish it was easier to find emissions data on handheld equipment. As a Husqvarna dealer I'm able to find some infor on trimmers only and I've got a limited amount of data on a few stihl products from a Stihl service school we went to. i.e. the FS80 Stihl....freakin great machine, I love em and it's one of my best sellers, but it's pollutes over 5 times as much as an FS110 does.

T Total Lawncare
03-02-2008, 03:37 AM
I've heard of SLE before and been hearing that husky has threatened to pull the line from them if they don't stop selling via the internet. It took a while but they got Bailey's to stop selling chainsaws and trimmers online so maybe that will end too. Northern tool is the only vendor Husky allows to sell online. I personally don't believe any new Z mower from any brand should be sold online. If the retailer can't service it locally they have no business selling it in my opinon.


Interesting take, but what is the theory behind not letting them sell equipment over the net, besides the mowers? I understand why they don't let the box stores handle the true commercial equipment cause the little guys can't compete. But if a commercial equipment seller is selling at prices that are competitive and some what in line with what the msrp what is the beef. I can see the service issue but most all the handheld eqipment I have purchased easily makes it through the warranty period without trouble and I know at least a half a dozen good small engine mechanics that can help me get my moneys worth out of a handheld. You got some stores especially around here who like to inflate prices and try to make a 100% profit, and they think they have you if they have a piece you want. I think due to being in a smaller community where the market isn't as large their trying to squeeze every cent out of you to cover the overstock that isn't moving fast enough. I think a little competition keeps some of them honest and reasonable. Around here sometimes the internet is there only competition. I want them to be able to make a decent living but at the same time don't want to get that sore feeling in the rear-end after writing a check. I know there are a lot of dealers out there that want to work with the customer and get him what he wants at a fair and reasonable price. There just aren't many around me with that philosophy and I won't play there game. There are a lot of guys out there who are loyal to a brand and if there dealer is treating them right they should count themselves blessed by being able to do so. But if you live in ruralville like I do, you have to keep your options open because your expenses can start to easily overcome your income.

Zooropa93
03-02-2008, 04:38 AM
Interesting take, but what is the theory behind not letting them sell equipment over the net, besides the mowers? I understand why they don't let the box stores handle the true commercial equipment cause the little guys can't compete. But if a commercial equipment seller is selling at prices that are competitive and some what in line with what the msrp what is the beef. I can see the service issue but most all the handheld eqipment I have purchased easily makes it through the warranty period without trouble and I know at least a half a dozen good small engine mechanics that can help me get my moneys worth out of a handheld. You got some stores especially around here who like to inflate prices and try to make a 100% profit, and they think they have you if they have a piece you want. I think due to being in a smaller community where the market isn't as large their trying to squeeze every cent out of you to cover the overstock that isn't moving fast enough. I think a little competition keeps some of them honest and reasonable. Around here sometimes the internet is there only competition. I want them to be able to make a decent living but at the same time don't want to get that sore feeling in the rear-end after writing a check. I know there are a lot of dealers out there that want to work with the customer and get him what he wants at a fair and reasonable price. There just aren't many around me with that philosophy and I won't play there game. There are a lot of guys out there who are loyal to a brand and if there dealer is treating them right they should count themselves blessed by being able to do so. But if you live in ruralville like I do, you have to keep your options open because your expenses can start to easily overcome your income.

Yeah there are always going to be some people that try to squeeze ya to the last drop. I'd like to think that's not the way we are at our location. How rural do you mean? I'm in a town of about 70K ppl. Not large by any stretch, but not terribly small either.

Regarding places like Baileys we had a lot of trouble with them especially with chainsaws, for a variety of reasons. One was that they were selling them at prices that a dealer who had to service what he/she sold could not make enough to make it worth carrying the line. I don't expect to make 35% on a unit, as that would not be fair to the customer but if I can only make 5-6% on a saw or trimmer it's not worth me even selling it by the time I fire up the forklift to unload my shipment and assemble everything (granted there isn't that much assy. for most handheld equipment but it's enough to make a 5% margin not worth the hassle). The other problem we had with them is that for over a year, we were required to abide by a no internet sales policy (except for consumer 100 series units) that did not apply to them because Husqvarna USA had no authority over anyone who was based out of CA, NV, and HI. In reality though, the biggest problem is manufacturer/distributor to dealer cost. The price from vendor to dealer is going up faster than the retail price is. It's especially bad if you're not a large enough dealer to be in the best buying brackets. I'm a midsize dealer and am getting squeezed by some of the manufacturers/distributors. Once upon a time a dealer could offer a customer a fair price and still make 25%. Those days are gone as the manufacturer and in some cases the distributor make the majority of the profit on a unit.

puppypaws
03-02-2008, 09:16 AM
Does anybody know the price of the Bob-Cat model? I hope it is less than $6300, because my local Bob-Cat dealer sells the commercial Pro-Cat (not Estate Series) with a 48" deck for about $5000. Why would anybody spend an extra $1300 for a lesser-grade machine just because it has a 4" wider deck? I think Sears missed the price point on this one. The 33" walk behind from Craftsman is $100 less than the same 33" unit from Cub Cadet (the Cub does have an hour gauge and electric start). At $1100, that isn't a bad buy, but $6300 is too much. I think they'd sell some if they were just above or below $5000. A Deere 717A or Ferris IS1500 can be bought for just a couple hundred more than the Craftsman!

I will see if I can find out the manufacture of that mower, it is interesting looking, has the look of a Bobcat and the color of the Cub Cadet.

Lazer_Z
03-02-2008, 10:44 AM
I think you are right. Pro Cat Estate? http://www.bobcatturf.com/products/ztm/pro_cat_estate_series/index.html

I will see if I can find out the manufacture of that mower, it is interesting looking, has the look of a Bobcat and the color of the Cub Cadet.
Reid, Check out the link that DLCS provided. It looks exactly like that Bob-Cat except for the yellow deck, decals and different overall paint scheme.

Frontier LLC
03-02-2008, 11:49 AM
Everyone bashes thease major companies when they start selling Commercial or so called equipment. The normal home owner dose not even know what a ztr is untill he walks into sears. So now he see's this cool mower and wants the top of the line. He dose not have the commercial experiance or diverse knowlede as people here on this site doing this job for a living. So he buys this sears mower on his sears credit card. Now he gets his mower home, Bob Cat just made a sale, and from the sounds of it they were not selling enough. When it dose break it will probobly be sent to a local shop to be fixed. All the proffesional series means is a better product than the normal class. Sears produces some good tools, and their exchange policy on sockets screw drives and such are pretty good. I don't think sears intention is to the commercial LCO but more to the homeowner. Did you see the ZTR thay had the last few years, that was really junk and cheply built.

puppypaws
03-02-2008, 03:09 PM
Reid, Check out the link that DLCS provided. It looks exactly like that Bob-Cat except for the yellow deck, decals and different overall paint scheme.


Yep, that is her...maybe a few suttle changes!



http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101657&stc=1&d=1204330304

http://www.bobcatturf.com/products/ztm/pro_cat_estate_series/images/product.jpg

lawnkingforever
03-02-2008, 04:39 PM
I agree with Frontier, LCOs looking to buy a ZT will not drop that kind of loot on a mower at any big box store. I am just partime(20-25 customers) and when I do grow enough to justify a ZT it will be bought at a dealer. And I have bought equipment from all sources, box stores, dealers, and used. It all depends on the need and the budget I am working with for that particular piece of equipment. This year for example I bought a new Echo trimmer, could have bought it at Home Depot, but I got it at a local dealer for the same price. Second purchase this year was 150BT Husky blower, checked out a very large dealer that carries irriagation equipment and other stuff geared towards heavy commercial LCOs, I think they only brought in Husky as a sidebar to there business and seemed only interested in closing big deals. The blower was 329$ there and since they did not seem to care I went to Lowes and got it for 299$. If had recieved the same level of service like the small Echo dealer, I would of bought the blower from them instead of Lowes even at 30$ dollars more. When I do upgrade to ZT I will go to the small Echo dealer that deals with Ferris as he seemed like he actually cared about the sale.

freshprince94
03-02-2008, 06:46 PM
no sears mower should be 6k. craftsman used to be somewhat decent but is now "good" enough for k-mart.

btw, but for thsoe of you that did not know, craftsman, weed eater, and poulan and poulan pro are all owned and produced by husqvarna. that's part of the reason husqvarnas products have gotten worse throughout the years.

my local dealer used to carry husqvarna but dropped it for stihl last year. they said it would take 3-4 months to get parts. now, parts usually come in in 24 hours (partially due to the local stihl distributor being right down the street).

bottom line: craftsman is good for homeowners but a commercial lco shouldn't waste their money on something almost certain to break within a season. same with homelite, ryobi, etc.

true lcos run toro and exmark! lol

T Total Lawncare
03-02-2008, 08:34 PM
Yeah there are always going to be some people that try to squeeze ya to the last drop. I'd like to think that's not the way we are at our location. How rural do you mean? I'm in a town of about 70K ppl. Not large by any stretch, but not terribly small either.

Regarding places like Baileys we had a lot of trouble with them especially with chainsaws, for a variety of reasons. One was that they were selling them at prices that a dealer who had to service what he/she sold could not make enough to make it worth carrying the line. I don't expect to make 35% on a unit, as that would not be fair to the customer but if I can only make 5-6% on a saw or trimmer it's not worth me even selling it by the time I fire up the forklift to unload my shipment and assemble everything (granted there isn't that much assy. for most handheld equipment but it's enough to make a 5% margin not worth the hassle). The other problem we had with them is that for over a year, we were required to abide by a no internet sales policy (except for consumer 100 series units) that did not apply to them because Husqvarna USA had no authority over anyone who was based out of CA, NV, and HI. In reality though, the biggest problem is manufacturer/distributor to dealer cost. The price from vendor to dealer is going up faster than the retail price is. It's especially bad if you're not a large enough dealer to be in the best buying brackets. I'm a midsize dealer and am getting squeezed by some of the manufacturers/distributors. Once upon a time a dealer could offer a customer a fair price and still make 25%. Those days are gone as the manufacturer and in some cases the distributor make the majority of the profit on a unit.



The county I live in has a little less than half the population the town you live in. Thats what I mean by ruralville. To make any decent money I have accounts around the county. I could not justify the work if it was only in my town. Having said that I have dealers in my town that carry Scag, Exmark, Hustler, Badboy, Great Dane, Ferris, Stihl, Redmax and Husqvarna as far as commercial eqipment go. We had Deere up until two years ago. We got a decent selection of brands but not dealers. There are only about 4 that carry the sum of all the brands listed.

Capemay Eagle
03-02-2008, 10:05 PM
http://www.bobcatturf.com/products/ztm/pro_cat/index.html

Tharrell
03-02-2008, 10:49 PM
When I first saw the picture I thought it was a Bob-Cat but, couldn't believe it to be true. Since everyone else thinks so too, I guess it is.
Now, they will sell plenty of them because there are so many people that buy nothing but Craftsman stuff. And, it will be an excuse for anyone who does shop there to get one now that "Sears makes it".
Anyway, I wish them good fortune because it's no skin off my nose. Tony

newz7151
03-03-2008, 01:14 AM
I understand why they don't let the box stores handle the true commercial equipment cause the little guys can't compete.

Actually, it's the other way around. The "sell everything" box store is not specialized in outdoor power equipment enough to justify to a commercial manufacturer to have the commercial name dragged through the mud when consumers would start buying the stuff in a box, taking it home and since most homeowners fail to read an instruction manual on anything, screw the thing up with operator error and start bitching about it on every internet site they can find that mentions the name.

Every piece of Shindaiwa and Ariens that leaves here is fueled up, tested for proper operation/adjustment and the customer is demonstrated to the safety functions and basic proper operation of the equipment.

Which is another reason why the places that are selling Shindaiwa, Redmax, "Echo", (Stihl) and any other brand that has in their dealer agreement that online,phone,mail order, unassembled and undemonstrated in box sales are not allowed, should have their authorized dealer status pulled. Especially if it continues to occur after they have been notified more than twice to discontinue those types of sales.

Leaving the dealership in proper running condition is what is supposed to help seperate the quality brands from your Wal-Mart Poulan,PoulanPro and Weedeater, HomeDepot Ryobi/Homelite, TroyBilt, Cub Cadet, Bolens and etc. etc. brands, and if they are being sold and shipped boxed up, that distinction starts to become blurred.

Zooropa93
03-03-2008, 03:14 AM
I agree with Frontier, LCOs looking to buy a ZT will not drop that kind of loot on a mower at any big box store. I am just partime(20-25 customers) and when I do grow enough to justify a ZT it will be bought at a dealer. And I have bought equipment from all sources, box stores, dealers, and used. It all depends on the need and the budget I am working with for that particular piece of equipment. This year for example I bought a new Echo trimmer, could have bought it at Home Depot, but I got it at a local dealer for the same price. Second purchase this year was 150BT Husky blower, checked out a very large dealer that carries irriagation equipment and other stuff geared towards heavy commercial LCOs, I think they only brought in Husky as a sidebar to there business and seemed only interested in closing big deals. The blower was 329$ there and since they did not seem to care I went to Lowes and got it for 299$. If had recieved the same level of service like the small Echo dealer, I would of bought the blower from them instead of Lowes even at 30$ dollars more. When I do upgrade to ZT I will go to the small Echo dealer that deals with Ferris as he seemed like he actually cared about the sale.

Interesting, as my husky rep told me that lowe's would not be able to carry the 150BT, which I sell at $299 also. Lowe's can't beat me on price on any item cause i sell all Husky items at power price and lowe's is required to sell at power price. I just get frustrated that so many local customers still by from lowe's when I'm the same price and will give them faster service if they buy from me.

Zooropa93
03-03-2008, 03:17 AM
the only thing i sell over promotional price is scag belt drive walk behinds cause the margin at promo is lower than anything else we sell (even lower than walker which has horrible margins). I want to provide a decent price to the customer but promo price on SW walk behinds just isnt enough to make ti worth ordering any at that price

Envy Lawn Service
03-03-2008, 03:50 AM
Yep, that is her...maybe a few suttle changes!



http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101657&stc=1&d=1204330304

http://www.bobcatturf.com/products/ztm/pro_cat_estate_series/images/product.jpg

No... you got that one wrong.

It's not the Estate Series.
The Estate series is a cheapened model built off the standard 200 series frame. (220ES)
218, 219, 220, 223, 225, 227... (now called Pro-Cat)

The craftsman is a bobcat though, but it's a FastCat.
I can tell because the FastCat's deck is pulled from the front...
Deck stabilizers are to the front of the deck instead of pushing from the rear (like Hustler).

The larger deck versions are not shown on the website.
Check this image for conformation...

http://www.sharpeslawn.com/images/Bob%20Cat/FastCat-silhouette-clipped.jpg

Envy Lawn Service
03-03-2008, 04:02 AM
Now god only knows why anyone would buy the Craftsman instead of buying at a good BobCat dealer????????????

But sears is a major force out there today, craftsman is still respected outside "our world" and a lot of american families have a sears credit card... so....



What I find interesting is the totally intangled mess I see.

Sears has long put their Craftsman name on crappy AYP products. Electrolux owned AYP and Husqvarna, so there is your big CONNECTION.

What I would like to know is how this decision was made. I wonder if some Sears folks decided they were tired of junk.... or if it was decided elsewhere, which would make it even more interesting.... to me.


What I am getting at is that I am really surprised it is not a Husqvarna offering in craftsman colors?.... And how this decision was made?.... Interesting stuff to me anyways. I'm enjoying a silent chuckle.


Anyways, I'm surprised about this move from BobCat. But it is a smart one financially. I think this also in light of the fact that BobCat is no longer owned by Textron. Little Wonder bought out the Commercial Turf division (BobCat, Bunton, Jacobsen ZTR's & WB's)


In closing, I think the educated buyers that will use them for more than mowing their own lawn will go down to the BobCat dealer and get a FastCat instead, which will be better equipped stock (engine, air cleaner, etc) and cheaper.... with support from a commercial dealer.

puppypaws
03-03-2008, 08:42 AM
No... you got that one wrong.

It's not the Estate Series.
The Estate series is a cheapened model built off the standard 200 series frame. (220ES)
218, 219, 220, 223, 225, 227... (now called Pro-Cat)

The craftsman is a bobcat though, but it's a FastCat.
I can tell because the FastCat's deck is pulled from the front...
Deck stabilizers are to the front of the deck instead of pushing from the rear (like Hustler).

The larger deck versions are not shown on the website.
Check this image for conformation...

http://www.sharpeslawn.com/images/Bob%20Cat/FastCat-silhouette-clipped.jpg

Thanks for the correction, it is hard for me to see in the Bobcat picture, but I can see the front being the same now in your picture.

Good to hear from you, I hope things are good.

T Total Lawncare
03-03-2008, 11:15 AM
Actually, it's the other way around. The "sell everything" box store is not specialized in outdoor power equipment enough to justify to a commercial manufacturer to have the commercial name dragged through the mud when consumers would start buying the stuff in a box, taking it home and since most homeowners fail to read an instruction manual on anything, screw the thing up with operator error and start bitching about it on every internet site they can find that mentions the name.

Every piece of Shindaiwa and Ariens that leaves here is fueled up, tested for proper operation/adjustment and the customer is demonstrated to the safety functions and basic proper operation of the equipment.

Which is another reason why the places that are selling Shindaiwa, Redmax, "Echo", (Stihl) and any other brand that has in their dealer agreement that online,phone,mail order, unassembled and undemonstrated in box sales are not allowed, should have their authorized dealer status pulled. Especially if it continues to occur after they have been notified more than twice to discontinue those types of sales.

Leaving the dealership in proper running condition is what is supposed to help seperate the quality brands from your Wal-Mart Poulan,PoulanPro and Weedeater, HomeDepot Ryobi/Homelite, TroyBilt, Cub Cadet, Bolens and etc. etc. brands, and if they are being sold and shipped boxed up, that distinction starts to become blurred.



You don't think that the fact that a box store or a chain of box stores could buy so many units and sell them at a cheaper price has anything to do with the policy? Yes I do realize the service issue. But there are a lot of folks that wouldn't mind saving 50 bucks on a piece of equipment. You get a store like Lowes or Home Depot and they won't sweat refunding someone if it screws up because they sell so much. They all contract local service for their equipment anyway. Don't get me wrong I'm all for the smaller buisness man in this country and I agree with the commercial equipment companies policies on selling. But the big guys can bring a little balance to the market, especially if you live in a area like I do where there aren't enough dealers really to compete against each other.

lawnkingforever
03-03-2008, 05:32 PM
Zooropa93, your rep is either not telling you the truth or ignorant to the facts. The Lowes by my house sells the 125BT, 130BT and the 150BT Husky backback blowers. Prices are 199, 249, and 299. For the price, the 150BT is a nice blower for blowing grass off of sidewalks and light leaf cleanups. If you were the dealer in my area I would of bought it off of you as you seem to care about customer service. The other Husky dealer was some distance away and I was not going to drive that far for a 299$ blower.

Mic_bug
03-03-2008, 05:36 PM
Now, don't pick on me yet, I'm not about to buy one. I just wondered if anybody had seen these in Sears lately. 52", 26hp Briggs ELS, $6299. I think that is a bit pricey for a mower with no commercial history. If it was just under $5000, I could see some part-timers getting one, but you can get a brand-name commercial mower for less than $6300. I wonder who is manufacturing this mower for Craftsman. Any ideas?

Im sure bob vilia would own one :hammerhead:

Zooropa93
03-03-2008, 07:26 PM
I called our local lowe's today about the 150BT and they are not carrying it here....maybe it's a regional thing, I really don't know. The one thing I do know is that in the years since the 2 Lowe's stores here got Husky, our sales with that line have never reached what they were before they went into Lowe's. :realmad:

Lawn Enforcer
03-03-2008, 10:52 PM
Hey, that's great to know! Ask him if he'll buy my 130 KMRTQ .

Is that stock? Because he had stock before K-Mart went bankrupt a few years ago, he lost all of that stock that he had, which was a few shares.

tacoma200
03-04-2008, 12:33 AM
Why buy an uproven ZTR?

S man
03-04-2008, 07:24 PM
That's ridiculous! Why pay over 6 grand for something that says crapsman on it? It has a one year commercial warranty and doesn't even have full pump and wheel motors. What are they thinking?

daveintoledo
03-04-2008, 08:18 PM
looks like made in china crap to me....

puppypaws
03-04-2008, 10:08 PM
looks like made in china crap to me....

I am not real sure what isn't made in China any more.

Mic_bug
03-04-2008, 10:43 PM
That's ridiculous! Why pay over 6 grand for something that says crapsman on it? It has a one year commercial warranty and doesn't even have full pump and wheel motors. What are they thinking?

ahh..just so you know...its a 'K'rapsman!:weightlifter:

Kmart bought them out.:dizzy:

jdmcat
03-05-2008, 12:17 AM
yeah, $6300 is too much for that mower, but have you been in Sears lately? EVERYTHING is overpriced, craftsman or not. I only buy shovels and rakes, etc there because you only have to buy them once.

TomberLawn
03-05-2008, 12:22 AM
I just saw the "commercial" walk behind on their website yesterday. Cub Cadet, right? The only thing I don't get is that it has a Briggs Intek and costs as much (or more when not on sale) as a Cub Tank walk behind with a Kawasaki. If I remember correctly, my dealer told me the 36" Tank is about $2500. I also asked him about the 32", so I may have the prices confused, but either way, it was $2500 with a real commercial engine.

tb8100
03-05-2008, 12:28 AM
I just saw the "commercial" walk behind on their website yesterday. Cub Cadet, right? The only thing I don't get is that it has a Briggs Intek and costs as much (or more when not on sale) as a Cub Tank walk behind with a Kawasaki. If I remember correctly, my dealer told me the 36" Tank is about $2500. I also asked him about the 32", so I may have the prices confused, but either way, it was $2500 with a real commercial engine.

I forgot about that! Yeah, it does have an Intek engine. What a piece of overpriced poop! It'll be interesting to see if Sears will actually sell many of these things. I'm gonna have to say initially, no. But if they're any kind of business people, they'll get on the ball real quick and make necessary adjustments to make these things sell better.

puppypaws
03-07-2008, 02:16 PM
Now, don't pick on me yet, I'm not about to buy one. I just wondered if anybody had seen these in Sears lately. 52", 26hp Briggs ELS, $6299. I think that is a bit pricey for a mower with no commercial history. If it was just under $5000, I could see some part-timers getting one, but you can get a brand-name commercial mower for less than $6300. I wonder who is manufacturing this mower for Craftsman. Any ideas?

Bobcat said they made 800 of these mowers for Sears. They are too expensive with the Briggs, my dealer sells them a good bit cheaper with the Kawasaki engine and the Bobcat name which means better resale.

Zooropa93
03-07-2008, 08:38 PM
I just saw the "commercial" walk behind on their website yesterday. Cub Cadet, right? The only thing I don't get is that it has a Briggs Intek and costs as much (or more when not on sale) as a Cub Tank walk behind with a Kawasaki. If I remember correctly, my dealer told me the 36" Tank is about $2500. I also asked him about the 32", so I may have the prices confused, but either way, it was $2500 with a real commercial engine.

An Intek? wow...I thought was reserved for consumer grade riders. Heck even some of the consumer grade Husq. riders I have in stock have the ELS, Vanguard and Kawasaki engines in them