New fertilization program

[TMGL&L]

Okay, so I want to go natural this year on my grass. Last year I had MAJOR problems with dandelions in the Spring and crabgrass in the Fall.

I hear good things about corn gluten... Like that its a pre-emergent, and actually kills small weeds like dandelions.

Can anyone give me the low down here...I want to know everything there is to know about this stuff.


-Does it work?
-What does it do?...
-And what doesn't it do?
-Should I be using any other organic fertilizers along with it?
-Are does anyone have any disaster stories with it?
-How much should I use?
-Can I spread it with a little walk behind broadcast spreader?
-Are there any highly reputable brands I should look for?
-Can I reseed right away or not?
-Where are some online sources for information on it?

Any input here is greatly appreciated...I really, really want to make this property look good this year.

[1wezil]

Okay, so I want to go natural this year on my grass. Last year I had MAJOR problems with dandelions in the Spring and crabgrass in the Fall.

I hear good things about corn gluten... Like that its a pre-emergent, and actually kills small weeds like dandelions.

Can anyone give me the low down here...I want to know everything there is to know about this stuff.


-Does it work?
-What does it do?...
-And what doesn't it do?
-Should I be using any other organic fertilizers along with it?
-Are does anyone have any disaster stories with it?
-How much should I use?
-Can I spread it with a little walk behind broadcast spreader?
-Are there any highly reputable brands I should look for?
-Can I reseed right away or not?
-Where are some online sources for information on it?

Any input here is greatly appreciated...I really, really want to make this property look good this year.

bump !!!!!!!!!!

[NattyLawn]

Okay, so I want to go natural this year on my grass. Last year I had MAJOR problems with dandelions in the Spring and crabgrass in the Fall.

I hear good things about corn gluten... Like that its a pre-emergent, and actually kills small weeds like dandelions.

Can anyone give me the low down here...I want to know everything there is to know about this stuff.


-Does it work? Yes, expect 40-60% crabgrass control year 1
-What does it do?...CGM is a root pruner.
-And what doesn't it do?It doesn't kill existing weeds
-Should I be using any other organic fertilizers along with it?Yes
-Are does anyone have any disaster stories with it?Besides the mice liking it, no.
-How much should I use?20-25 lbs in the spring, 20 more in late summer if needed
-Can I spread it with a little walk behind broadcast spreader?yes
-Are there any highly reputable brands I should look for?Nutrients plus, Safelawn
-Can I reseed right away or not?If your asking this, you need to do some research and look into licensing
-Where are some online sources for information on it?Iowa State. Google Corn Gluten Meal

Any input here is greatly appreciated...I really, really want to make this property look good this year.

I tried to fill in some answers.

[TMGL&L]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. But of course I have tons of questions still...

From what I understand, it takes approx. 2 years for cgm to work at full capacity. Also, I have read that you can apply twice the recommended dose (say 40lbs/ per k) without burning the grass. Is this true? Shouldn't that speed up this process?

And in regards to my question about additional fertilizers, what should I use? I know cgm is high in nitrogen. Will the grass need more nitrogen than the cgm can provide?

[Kiril]

CGM has been discussed extensively on this forum. Used the advanced search form.

Here are some links from one of those related topics.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=2108621&postcount=10

[Smallaxe]

If you think in terms of what is the growing environment is like for the grass - instead of throwing food at it; then it becomes easier to understand the process.
Ultimately you should be able to stop most applications altogether, if you built the soil correctly. Not a lot of money in that, but there is money in building sustainable turf for people. :)

[TMGL&L]

Alright I'm going to do my research this week. Input here is still appreciated.

What should I do to spot shot weeds that still come up? If I only get 40%-60% control in year one then what do I do about the weeds that survive?

[Prolawnservice]

pull'um or burn them carefully:blob2:

[TMGL&L]

Pulling dandelions would take forever...What do you mean by "burn them"

[Smallaxe]

Alright I'm going to do my research this week. Input here is still appreciated.

What should I do to spot shot weeds that still come up? If I only get 40%-60% control in year one then what do I do about the weeds that survive?

You may have to use broadleaf weed killer until you get things under control. Just 'spot spray', though. No need to spray everything - unless you have weeds everywhere. Dandelions that you see this Spring, germinated the previous summer, shortly after the seeds flew about. So if you see the seeds fly again this year perhaps some CGM will be in order, then.

Crabgrass once growing can be killed back with Cinnamin Bark Powder.

[Prolawnservice]

http://www.flameengineering.com/Weed_Dragon.html

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1277728

Once you get the grass thick enough to crowd out the majority of weeds, either one of these would be a good alternative to chemical herbicides. They can both be fun to use, once you get good at using them, it will only take a little longer than spot spraying herbicide.

[ICT Bill]

It amazes me how the subject always comes to KILLING weeds.

You smart people out there on the forum know, its not about KILLING, its about displacing or out competing.

The mindset is the issue.
That is enough for me tonight, bye bye

[TMGL&L]

By the way, thank you for the input with the links and the weed dragon I have never seen this before...very cool stuff.

Alright...well I understand this concept of feeding the soil instead of the grass. I also understand that the best source of weed control is your lawn.

But realistically, from the very little that I understand, if organic lawn care takes a few years to reach its true potential, then their will still be a weed problem until then... And, with weeds their will be questioning customers who are used to instant chemical solutions, looking at other landscapers competing against me who will gladly provide them with that temporary solution they are used to getting.

The customers #1 priority is to have a totally weed free property. Not to wait a year to have a nice lawn.

Therefore, just in the beginning, before I have that "competitive" grass that kicks weed butt, I will need a spot shot weed killer that will keep my customers from ringing my phone in the mean time. My customers aren't going to be all that patient when they see their neighbor's lawns super green because they have "chem-lawn" spraying every month.

Realistically, I need results...fast. This is a business.

That is why I need to talk about killing the weeds.

[TMGL&L]

This year I'll go with more of a "hybrid" approach to lawn care. I'm going to use a fully organic program to ammend the soil and if and when the problem arises that there are a lot of weeds such as dandelions and crab grass (which were there last year) I will use selective weed killers to spot shot the problem areas if the vinegar and soap mixture doesn't do the job or pulling weeds manually drives me crazy.

[Tom Jaszewski]

It amazes me how the subject always comes to KILLING weeds.

You smart people out there on the forum know, its not about KILLING, its about displacing or out competing.

The mindset is the issue.
That is enough for me tonight, bye bye

Interestingly enough that's very true. In managing the entire acreage of turf at The Mirage I never did use a weed killer. Healthy turf with proper nutrition outcompetes any broadleaf weeds. I doesn't work to just throw "organic" fertilizer down. If you have lots of broadleaf weeds you have nutrient levels conducive to their growth, not turf. Make nutrients more readily available with a biological program and weeds are a thing of the past.