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blackoakstone
03-07-2008, 11:32 PM
Anybody have any pros/cons dealing with 2000 Chevy 3500HD diesel? Pre-Allison tranny... Don't know too much about it.
I am getting ready to buy a dump w/ 150,000 miles, but wanted to check with others and get some good or bad on these trucks. Anything I should have checked out before spending hard earned money on one?
Thanks in advance.

Mowingman
03-08-2008, 09:37 AM
What engine does it have? The Duramax or the older 6.5 turbo diesel?

blackoakstone
03-08-2008, 09:41 AM
The older (2000 model) 6.5 liter turbo diesel.

mverick
03-08-2008, 09:57 AM
OK,

6.5 diesel is NOT A DURAMAX.

Motor does not put out power anywhere near the Duramax range. So, don't even think that. It can't be plug and play updated either.

They do not have Intercoolers so you can't bump up the boost and when you run in hot weather you loose power if towing a lot because of no intercooler.

They have PMD's I think it is that go bad if you don't put them on a auxilary cooler. It controllers the Injector pump.

They have some cooling issues in the heads.

There are upgrades you can and should make to these. One is a different fan clutch from one of the upgrade companies. Home Made intercooler for around $700. Different oil filter system with a bypass filter. Probably New Lift Pump that's heavy duty from a upgrade company. EGT gauge and Boost Gauge.

They are good trucks but do need some things. I have one with all the upgrades and with that you can have the computer reprogrammed for around $500 for more torque. But, I wanted it to be more bullet proof, so I did the upgrades and noticed a better power curve and left it alone. Nice trucks but the 6.5 was designed from the 6.2 and it was just for a mileage motor. Not a towing motor.

BrandonV
03-08-2008, 10:07 AM
the worst diesel motor in recent time. And if that by bad enough you the have the transmission to contend with. You would do much better to go find a similar era ford and buy that instead.

mdlwn1
03-08-2008, 10:14 AM
I used to see them in Jersey for sale with 40,000 miles on them. That is VERY telling. NO LCO sells a truck with 40,000 miles on it without a dam good reason.

mverick
03-08-2008, 10:39 AM
the worst diesel motor in recent time. And if that by bad enough you the have the transmission to contend with. You would do much better to go find a similar era ford and buy that instead.

Not quite the worst in recent time.

The 6.0 Ford would have that prize. I know 5 guy's that had them and all 5 were junk. One had the nice effect of having $5000 worth of damage when towing a trailer out. After it was all fixed and drove back home with trailer. $5000 more of damage when he got it back home. He bought it used so no Warranty. JUNK. 4 out of 5 have DuraMax now. Fifth can't afford to swap yet.

And, i like the 7.3 powerstroke but have seen a lot of them with rods through the block too. And, Tranny's that were shot.

It's not a bad motor. But, it's not a DuraMax. And, the tranny i've never had problems with. Auto's. Make SURE TO GET A PMD COOLER. That's the major problem with them.

blackoakstone
03-08-2008, 10:51 AM
Hard to believe that it could be worse than the 6.0 ford. I can't imagine it being the worst motor in recent history...

I know it's not near the Duramax in power, but it's not near the Duramax in price, either... I would love to be able to drop $30 plus, but this dude is more in the $10 range. Gov. owned. Serviced regularly. Thoroughly inspected. No problems. It has 150K on it and still runs out like a champ.

I will do the PMD cooler. No question. I am happy to hear that you haven't had any tranny problems. That was my main fear. I know it is a better choice than the 6.0 ford.

I will be using this truck for hauling no more than 4 tons. It has a 15,000 GVWR. I may pull my Bobcat sometimes, but I have a C-30 that does that usually. We are just needing a replacement for a 70s model dump we no longer have. I was just thinking this would be a solid replacement.

mverick
03-08-2008, 11:25 AM
They did have a lot of problems with the 6.5 but it was almost always traced back to the pmd.

Honestly, I think the 454 might be a better choice. Although, I like diesels. 454 is easier to work on. And, parts are cheaper.


Hard to believe that it could be worse than the 6.0 ford. I can't imagine it being the worst motor in recent history...

I know it's not near the Duramax in power, but it's not near the Duramax in price, either... I would love to be able to drop $30 plus, but this dude is more in the $10 range. Gov. owned. Serviced regularly. Thoroughly inspected. No problems. It has 150K on it and still runs out like a champ.

I will do the PMD cooler. No question. I am happy to hear that you haven't had any tranny problems. That was my main fear. I know it is a better choice than the 6.0 ford.

I will be using this truck for hauling no more than 4 tons. It has a 15,000 GVWR. I may pull my Bobcat sometimes, but I have a C-30 that does that usually. We are just needing a replacement for a 70s model dump we no longer have. I was just thinking this would be a solid replacement.

Blk94fiveOh
03-08-2008, 11:25 AM
The 6.0 ford gets a bad rap, mostly for the problems the 03's had. BY 05 most of the problems were sorted out. Many of the problems you read/hear about involve modifying the motors. To say the the 6.5 gm diesel is a better motor than the 6.0 ford is ridiculous. You can't even compare the two. The 6.5 IS the worst diesel in modern history. No Ifs ands or buts.

And if you want to play the "i know a guy who has one" game... four people I know own 6.0 liter fords, not counting my own, all of which have had zero issues. All of them are stock. My personal 6.0 has never been in the shop for anything (65 K miles 05). The motor is warrantied to 100K miles, so unless you void the warranty by putting a programmer on it, or somehow modifying it you shouldn't have any problems getting it repaired by ford.

For the record, I own both chevy and ford trucks, and I generally have no brand preference. Both trucks have their PRO's and CON's.

BrandonV
03-08-2008, 12:08 PM
There were a lot more 6.0s some than 6.5. I own 2 and there are garbage for work trucks.

blackoakstone
03-08-2008, 12:13 PM
Huh? :confused:

mverick
03-08-2008, 12:32 PM
The 6.0's of certain years had a buy back program. Then they'd send them to auction and dealer would resell them with ZERO warranty. Part of the auction deal was that the Warranty was void. Best friend is a Mechanic in a shop that works on them. He saw this happen all the time. Take it in and give new truck and off to the aution with a new motor. Had stacks of the motors sitting in the Shop. That I did see.

Never had a buy back on the 6.5l. Although, there were hunting for that pmd for a long time. Changing out Injection pumps when they didn't need to be changed.

I still stand by the 6.0 worst of all time. It gets a bad rap because of the major flaws. And having the dealer buy back. But, they also sued northstar over the motor. And won.

It was neighbor who knows I work on the stuff. He pulled in and asked me to look at it. I told him call the people that worked on it the last week. He said it was in North Dakota. They had a shop here to and they fixed it for another $5000. His was a 05. Really pretty 4 door with short bed and Ranch hand bumpers. But, Broke most of the time. Bought it used with Zero warranty. Guess what. It was an auction car.

He has NO motor modifications, or computer modifications. Nor do most of the problems with the buy back. ALL manufacturers have problems with the Over Zelous programmers. And they don't' have the problem the 6.0 had.

And, on the 6.5l. I would opt for a 454 over it. But, I would buy a 6.5l.

I would NOT buy a 6.0l ford. Ever. 7.3 yes, and it has more power then a 6.5l. But, the 6.0 is a Lemon. Period. New motor that broke down under warranty multiple times. 6.5's usually were after the warranty. At least you got something out of them. And, my 6.5 has 250,000miles on it. Tow bobcats and ex's. But, it's first job was towing a Huge Motor home. Had tv's in the head rests and Full Ranch Hand Package with Vacume brakes. It's towed all it's life and no issues. Other then a Dead vacume pump.

But, It now has a intercooler and a PMD cooler, a DuraMax plastic fan/upgraded fan clutch, and Boost/EGT gauge, Amsoil dual filter with bypass filter, cold air kit, 4in exhaust, Some other things I'm forgetting too..

Not for HP or TQ. To keep my EGT's down and to haul a load.

But now, I buy DuraMax.

Oh, and on the 6.0's. They seemed fine till someone towed or worked them. I will say that. But, that's what I want it for.




The 6.0 ford gets a bad rap, mostly for the problems the 03's had. BY 05 most of the problems were sorted out. Many of the problems you read/hear about involve modifying the motors. To say the the 6.5 gm diesel is a better motor than the 6.0 ford is ridiculous. You can't even compare the two. The 6.5 IS the worst diesel in modern history. No Ifs ands or buts.

And if you want to play the "i know a guy who has one" game... four people I know own 6.0 liter fords, not counting my own, all of which have had zero issues. All of them are stock. My personal 6.0 has never been in the shop for anything (65 K miles 05). The motor is warrantied to 100K miles, so unless you void the warranty by putting a programmer on it, or somehow modifying it you shouldn't have any problems getting it repaired by ford.

For the record, I own both chevy and ford trucks, and I generally have no brand preference. Both trucks have their PRO's and CON's.

blackoakstone
03-08-2008, 12:43 PM
Thanks, mverick. You make good sense. Some people get too wrapped up in the Ford v. Chevy end of the deal. I am just trying to figure out if a 6.5 with 150K is worth 10K. It runs strong. Well maintained. Used to run asphalt. Nothing else.
I do appreciate the input.

BrandonV
03-08-2008, 01:00 PM
what I meant to say was that for every 1 6.5 chevy there were probably 4 6.0 fords. I own 2 of the Chevys they were not made for work, great for running around though. We have had all kinds of problems with the 6.5s and gm was nice enough to extend our warranty but in that same letter they also stated that the truck was not designed to accelerate quickly and somthing else I can't remember. It was quite comical at the time. The first 2 years of he 6.0 were awful I can attest to that but that was a 1st gen motor where the 6.5 stayed awful its entire production life. Hence why I think of it as the worst in recent history. And per my bro whose company works with for gm and for the duramax motor were failing at a higher rate than the fords but since for was selling 2 powerstrokes for every 1 that chevy and doge were the numbers were higher so more attention was paid.

Mowingman
03-08-2008, 01:06 PM
If you move the injection pump controller ,(or whatever it is called), away from the heat of the engine, you will have a dependable truck. I had one with over 160,000 miles on it. The previous owner built a little bracket for the controller to get it away from the engine. That solved the injector pump problems. My truck never got very good fuel mileage, and even with the standard trans. , was kind of a dog when towing a trailer. However, it was a very dependable truck that I never had to spend any money to fix.

mverick
03-08-2008, 08:32 PM
The 6.5 was made from 93 to 2000 I think. That's 7 years. The 6.0 was made for how long? I'm thinking there were more 6.5's made.

6.5 was also put in military vehicles. How many 6.0's were in those? 6.2 was in a lot of Hummers to and large trucks. How many 6.0's in those?

And, yes. If a 6.0 will run and not break. You have a lot more HP and Torque. Problem is. They break.

Neighbor had Cracked EGR cooler, Bad Turbo, Micro Cracks in both heads. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda. On a 2005. And old one I expect problems, but 2 years old with a cracked head? Or, 2 cracked heads? Sorry, that ain't a good motor.



what I meant to say was that for every 1 6.5 chevy there were probably 4 6.0 fords. I own 2 of the Chevys they were not made for work, great for running around though. We have had all kinds of problems with the 6.5s and gm was nice enough to extend our warranty but in that same letter they also stated that the truck was not designed to accelerate quickly and somthing else I can't remember. It was quite comical at the time. The first 2 years of he 6.0 were awful I can attest to that but that was a 1st gen motor where the 6.5 stayed awful its entire production life. Hence why I think of it as the worst in recent history. And per my bro whose company works with for gm and for the duramax motor were failing at a higher rate than the fords but since for was selling 2 powerstrokes for every 1 that chevy and doge were the numbers were higher so more attention was paid.

BrandonV
03-08-2008, 10:23 PM
well just about every UPS truck and lighter duty international trucks had the 6.0 so I guess that's not but, a bunch. and the military never buys junk, well unless you count all the junk.

mverick
03-08-2008, 10:40 PM
well just about every UPS truck and lighter duty international trucks had the 6.0 so I guess that's not but, a bunch. and the military never buys junk, well unless you count all the junk.

In fords for what?

03 to 07? So 4 years. And, Only in Some of the UPS. I don't think they replaced there whole fleet with them.

Hummers were 6.2 and then 6.5's. Same motor.

Motor is good. It's problems were always cooling. PMD and Head. 97 and above fixed cooling. PMD was never really fixed. Aftermarket fix is a heatsink. Then it works.

6.5's are actually run in boats now. Pennisular I think makes the conversion. In boats, no worries about cooling. You're using the lake water for cooling water or a water to water exchanger. Either way it's very efficient.

blackoakstone
03-09-2008, 03:32 PM
When saying it's not a motor meant for work/towing, how do you rate a 350? I have worked/towed a 350 for some time with no problems. I can't imagine how a 6.5 (with PMD and cooling problems fixed) couldn't hang with or outperform a mid-80s 350.
Am I wrong in this assumption?
The truck I am looking at is government owned, well-maintained, all service records, no problems ever. It could be that 1 out of 100 that is not a bad motor... I don't know. I'm just wondering if it is worth $10K. Dumps fine and runs out fine. It is an automatic...

Mowingman
03-09-2008, 03:35 PM
I think you would be fine with that truck. If it had problems, the govt. agency that owned it would surly have had those problems fixed. With a known history, maint. records, and a fair price, I would buy it.

TLS
03-09-2008, 06:37 PM
Good truck (3500HD's). 4L80 is a great tranny, but at 150K driven by govt. workers ??? Trans coolers on these trucks were bigger than on pickups.

6.5 is a good engine. The 3500HD's had bigger radiators, cooling wasn't as much of an issue as it was on reg pickups. 2000 was theoretically the best year for the 6.5

For info on this engine go to The Diesel Page.com (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/index.php) it's a forum similar to here.

All in all, for $10K you likely got a good deal.

BrandonV
03-09-2008, 08:05 PM
I think you would be fine with that truck. If it had problems, the govt. agency that owned it would surly have had those problems fixed. With a known history, maint. records, and a fair price, I would buy it.

I agree. If somthing was going to happen. It probably would of already had.

Mowingman
03-09-2008, 08:27 PM
Here is a photo of my old Chevy 3500 HD, with the 6.5 turbo diesel.

blackoakstone
03-09-2008, 11:09 PM
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I just need a truck pretty quick and think this one will be fine through the season.

Mowingman... Where you in TX? This particular truck was owned by the City of Lufkin. Used to run asphalt on their highway crew. I'm sure it was foreman driven. The interior is spotless. Really nice shape. It's in Dallas now.
I've always heard that Texas trucks were a little tougher, anyways. :usflag:

Mowingman
03-09-2008, 11:15 PM
Blackoakstone,
I am located in Denton, just about 30 miles up I35E from Dallas.

GravelyNut
03-10-2008, 12:11 AM
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I just need a truck pretty quick and think this one will be fine through the season.

Mowingman... Where you in TX? This particular truck was owned by the City of Lufkin. Used to run asphalt on their highway crew. I'm sure it was foreman driven. The interior is spotless. Really nice shape. It's in Dallas now.
I've always heard that Texas trucks were a little tougher, anyways. :usflag:

Most good Gov'ts take care of their equipment. Ours got washed about once a week. Waxed atleast quarterly. Oil changed on schedule. Paint jobs as needed. Brakes checked or replaced yearly. Inspected and greased on a schedule based on mile driven and use. And when they hit 100K+, they were turned back in to the motor pool for disposal. Before they were gotten rid of, they had to have all major defects corrected before they could be auctioned. If not fixable, they went for scrapping with all good reusable parts saved for another vehicle.

blackoakstone
03-10-2008, 01:47 AM
Most good Gov'ts take care of their equipment. Ours got washed about once a week. Waxed atleast quarterly. Oil changed on schedule. Paint jobs as needed. Brakes checked or replaced yearly. Inspected and greased on a schedule based on mile driven and use. And when they hit 100K+, they were turned back in to the motor pool for disposal. Before they were gotten rid of, they had to have all major defects corrected before they could be auctioned. If not fixable, they went for scrapping with all good reusable parts saved for another vehicle.

These (2 DOT dumps) were auctioned b/c of the age. The City of Lufkin had to buy new ones to keep their government funds coming. It has to do with the "spend money or don't receive money" kind of government deal. If they don't buy new equipment, the gov. funding agencies don't think they need much money to operate as a city, so they get funding cuts. (Guess it goes along the same lines as us having to spend money on equipment or give it to the gov. in taxes.)

Thanks for the input. I am glad to hear the positive side and hopefully I am spending hard-earned money wisely.

GravelyNut
03-10-2008, 02:02 AM
These (2 DOT dumps) were auctioned b/c of the age. The City of Lufkin had to buy new ones to keep their government funds coming. It has to do with the "spend money or don't receive money" kind of government deal. If they don't buy new equipment, the gov. funding agencies don't think they need much money to operate as a city, so they get funding cuts. (Guess it goes along the same lines as us having to spend money on equipment or give it to the gov. in taxes.)

Thanks for the input. I am glad to hear the positive side and hopefully I am spending hard-earned money wisely.

Yep. Age is another reason for disposal. 10 years was our max if it didn't have the mileage first. There are trucks that have low mileage gotten rid of all the time. If they were maintained, they bring good money at auction.