Porch Overlay, Sand Or Not

[STRINGALATION]

When doing a porch overlay do you put down a sand base. or are there guidelines for when you need to or not. i have done a search and only one or two seemd to use a bed of leveling sand the rest seemd to adhesive soilders and just lay the rest. also mentioned was the height diff between the sand bed and th soilders. so at this point it looks like i should be mortaring in stead. in the mortar process help i have decided to hang on to my estimate for a couple of days to get some responce to this thanks:dizzy::dizzy:

[patpls]

Hi String, i've done a few overlays and I've used thinset for the soldiers, then laid the center on the existing slab. 4 years and no problems.

[STRINGALATION]

this porch has a few surface issues. 1. ther is a dip where it is higher than the old stoop
2. there is a dip where he decided to take it out a little further . 3. he for got to put weep holes on the extended side so one of my goals of the bed of sand was to pitch the surface towards the steps and the weep holes will post some pics

[Team-Green L&L]

Sand is not intended for overlay purposes. Mostly due to the border height variation from being glued directly to the pad, but regardless I would not install an overlay on any pad with, even a hint, of structural issues.

[neversatisfiedj]

ICPI has a resource for overlays.


www.icpi.org

[STRINGALATION]

here is the part that he decided to extend out a little. will check the icpi link tonight but i think i saw it already not sure but someone had a crosssection photo and they had sand i will check later gotta go thanks for all help


http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/STRINGALATION/HPIM1097.jpg


in this photo you can see that where my foremans foot is the 1/4 inch dip line

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/STRINGALATION/HPIM1096.jpg

[neversatisfiedj]

You need to have 3 1/8" soldier course glued with PL . Inside 3/4" sand with 2 3/8" pavers. Don't forget your fabric so your sand don't migrate.

[STRINGALATION]

You need to have 3 1/8" soldier course glued with PL . Inside 3/4" sand with 2 3/8" pavers. Don't forget your fabric so your sand don't migrate.


that is what i thought. will that weed fabric work?
looking at my photo i did not think i needed a soldier.
also i have chose a 1'x2' stone i planned on speckling with a diff stone but the accent stone is slightly thicker. i was hoping to lay the regular stones and then remove some for the accent and excavate them ever so lightly if they would not pack to level the primary stone is 1 3/4" accent is 1.8"
really gotta go thanks

[ChampionLS]

If your surface is clean and level, you can omit the sand and just glue the outer perimeter pavers in place. The biggest problem would be the clitter-clatter of the pavers when you walk on them. Even if you swept sand in the joints, theres a chance they can still move. I would dry lay the whole thing together and glue each piece down, then sweep your sand. If you use bedding sand, you'll need to definitely use geotextile and either taller pavers for the perimeter, or caps (depending on your design)

[zedosix]

If your soldier course is the same size as the field I would go ahead with glueing down all the steps and the soldier course directly at the top of the first step. Beyond that (looks like there is a foundation wall all around the porch) I would use some thin set to level out the low area(s) on the porch and just lay the brick with no glue at all. I have done it that way countless times. Once you put a layer of poly sand the brick won't move. Now if your steps have a cap stone that is larger than the brick I would line the edge of the cap with geo non woven and place a layer of sand, I would set up my screed pipes and tamp, then re-screed again to bring level and then lay the brick. For a final compaction I would just use the lightest compactor you have on a piece of plywood, or just carefully hand tamp. Either way will give great results. Just depends on what materials you want to use here.

[Majesticman]

Zedo said it. Thin set everything to drain and glue all solders and steps. Use the same size brick if anyway possible. Sweep with poly and tamp.

[senatorcongressman]

Looks like you are going to have clearance issues by the door. Especially if you use bedding sand.

[GWORKS]

Won"t overlaying the steps with a 2 1/8" paver make the first step to high it looks to be about an 8" step now that would make that 1st step over 10" ?

[zedosix]

Won"t overlaying the steps with a 2 1/8" paver make the first step to high it looks to be about an 8" step now that would make that 1st step over 10" ?

If you cover all the steps you will have the same rise of 8". He will be covering all the steps thereby cancelling out any addtional rise. Everything is cool.:)

[STRINGALATION]

GWORKS good eye it is 9" the others are 6"
SENATORCONGRESSMAN that door is 4" so that will be fine also i pitched it today and they were impressed with my presentation they want another bei and will let me know next friday. priced it at $3200. material and labor cost $1600 total of 280 sqft is

my math right is that $11.00 psqft

[ChampionLS]

Zedo said it. Thin set everything to drain and glue all solders and steps. Use the same size brick if anyway possible. Sweep with poly and tamp.

NO WAY JOSE!

DO NOT TAMP!!!! Theres no sand You'll break everything up, crack pavers and make a mess. Just sweep it, dampen it and be done. :nono:

[STRINGALATION]

CHAMPIONLS there will be sand underneath

[zedosix]

NO WAY JOSE!

DO NOT TAMP!!!! Theres no sand You'll break everything up, crack pavers and make a mess. Just sweep it, dampen it and be done. :nono:

I would tamp it lightly as I said if only there was a layer of sand. Likely with just a hand tamper. If there was no sand of course I wouldn't tamp it.

[ChampionLS]

Ok gotcha.

When I've done small porch landings, or even smaller inlays, I use a hand tamper, or even just the good ol'l dead blow mallet

Has anyone ever tried to run a tamper over the base course block when using Allan Block? I just cringe when I think of that.

[GWORKS]

If you cover all the steps you will have the same rise of 8". He will be covering all the steps thereby cancelling out any addtional rise. Everything is cool.:)

I was referring to the 1st step up from the ground. I assumed that all the steps were of equal height so without changing the elevation at ground level would"nt he end up with the 1st one being to high?

[zedosix]

I was referring to the 1st step up from the ground. I assumed that all the steps were of equal height so without changing the elevation at ground level would"nt he end up with the 1st one being to high?

Quite possible. I would assume there is some work to be done below also. If not maybe just an adjustment of existing material is all that is needed.