High flow and std attachments

[bubbas45]

Howdy, folks. I have some questions.

I've been told that in at least some skidsteers with a high flow option, that you can switch back and forth between standard flow and high flow. Is that always true?

A CAT 248B is a high flow version of the 246. Are its auxiliary hydraulics always flowing at the higher rate?

If high flow is not switchable, if it is always on, does that mean that you cannot (or ought not) use standard attachments with such an SSL? Or does that not matter?

bws

[2109 Stang]

Hi bubbas45 :Im not an expert on hi flows but I belive that hi and low flow are two different systems and might not be switchable by a simple flick of a switch, but I,ve been wrong before.

[BIGBEN2004]

I am not 100% sure but I believe they have both hookups out front for high flow and standard flow.

[2109 Stang]

I am not 100% sure but I believe they have both hookups out front for high flow and standard flow.

Thats what I based my post on all hi flow machines that I,ve seen have the two separate hookups low flow has to connections while hi flow has three .

[bobcat_ron]

CAT and ASV both have 2 separate lines, 2 lines are for standard flow, and the other 2 (plus a smaller female line) are for the high flow, there is also a rocker switch in the cab that activates the circuit.

[YellowDogSVC]

CAT and ASV both have 2 separate lines, 2 lines are for standard flow, and the other 2 (plus a smaller female line) are for the high flow, there is also a rocker switch in the cab that activates the circuit.

don't you need the jumper cap on the new cats to activate high flow?

[bobcat_ron]

Not sure, I know on the B series there is a knock out in the control panel to activate it, but they may have changed it. On all the pics of high flow attachments on Cat skids, there is no jumper cap on the work tool harness, so I assume it's a switch to keep the system from getting turned on by mistake.

[iron peddler]

jumper wire is to tell the Cat machine that you are using a non-Cat hi flow tool...it will not engage hi flow without the jumper for the safety of the tool.

the plugs to jump are F and G on your machine. but as always check with your local dealer.

[CarterKraft]

Yall are all pretty close.

The cat B models share the same plumbing for High and STD flows.

The High flow and XPS circuits are turned on via a rocker switch.

To activate the XPS system the work tool jumper must be installed at the work tool electrical connector.

A side note, the XPS system is only engaged when the loader control is in the hold postition. if the control is moved out of the hold position the XPS will disengage.

XPS is a 4100psi setting of the auxillary hydraulics, and as such operating a non high pressure work tool on high pressure will blow seals, hoses etc.

[bobcat_ron]

XPS is a 4100psi setting of the auxillary hydraulics, and as such operating a non high pressure work tool on high pressure will blow seals, hoses etc.

4100 psi, suck on that Bobcat lovers!!

[YellowDogSVC]

Yall are all pretty close.

The cat B models share the same plumbing for High and STD flows.

The High flow and XPS circuits are turned on via a rocker switch.

To activate the XPS system the work tool jumper must be installed at the work tool electrical connector.

A side note, the XPS system is only engaged when the loader control is in the hold postition. if the control is moved out of the hold position the XPS will disengage.

XPS is a 4100psi setting of the auxillary hydraulics, and as such operating a non high pressure work tool on high pressure will blow seals, hoses etc.

So on a C series if you are moving a machine or lifting a brush mower into a pile, you drop back to 3300 psi? I thought an upgrade to the software fixed that?

[Construct'O]

Yall are all pretty close.

The cat B models share the same plumbing for High and STD flows.

The High flow and XPS circuits are turned on via a rocker switch.

To activate the XPS system the work tool jumper must be installed at the work tool electrical connector.

A side note, the XPS system is only engaged when the loader control is in the hold postition. if the control is moved out of the hold position the XPS will disengage.

XPS is a 4100psi setting of the auxillary hydraulics, and as such operating a non high pressure work tool on high pressure will blow seals, hoses etc.

Actually the 4100 psi would be a concern to me with most attachment as being rated for around 3000 psi.Presure is constant rate (at idle or full throttle)and can only be reduced down only by reseting the relief valve or using a relief valve between the attachment.Is this right?

For instance i was getting my silt fence attachment ready to use the other day.It has a virbatory plow on it with a hydraulic motor.The motor is small and the manual say max pressure at being 3000 psi,so if i was using it on a 4100 psi ,wouldn't a person need to be concerned????

Also they say it takes around 16 gallon flow to run the attachment.Which my machine will be running closer to 24. By running the machine at a lower rpm i can get around that because the 24 gallon would be at full throttle max.So i could run the attachment at around half throttle or maybe a little more.

I'm thinking more about getting a flow reducer with the a built in relief valve ,in case i need to run the machine at a high throttle.

So for people running attachments on Cat skid are you seeing more seal damage on your attachments and do the attachment companys need to raise there pressure rating on there attachment.

At 4100 psi does this make for a better machine to run a breaker and hammer,or is it still just more about flow??????:usflag:

[Construct'O]

Okay reread the above post about the xps system being 4100 psi,so if that is the case what is the normal pressure for a Cat skid'MTL machine?:usflag:

[YellowDogSVC]

the normal pressure is 3335 psi. From what I was told, the new c series would kick out of high flow when the loader was moved but a reflash on the memory fixed that so you could get the high flow when you need it even if moving

[bobcat_ron]

All oil inside Cat's systems return to tank, so only the working pressure will remain at 3335 psi, is what I understood. My jackhammer runs the same as it did on the Bobcat, but when it really starts going through the tough stuff and I am positioning the loader at the same time, I can really feel the extra pressure kick in, Bobcats always killed the oil flow to the hammer, but the Cat keeps the power going.

[CarterKraft]

ConstructO, that is why it's important to keep the jumper on the tools that can take it, not just plugged into the machine and left there.
Also I am not sure what machine you have but if it is a gear pump then yes you will be putting out more flaw than allowed but not so with a Piston pump as on a high flow machine.

Yellowdog, to be honest I don't know what the strategy is on the C-series. I suspect it's the same as the B-series. As for the machine moving, the XPS has to kick out when the loader control (only loader, not travel) is moved, this is to keep from damaging the machines own hydraulic system (bucket lift ,tilt)which is not rated for 4100 psi.
So you CAN move the machine but you CAN'T move the bucket or XPS will kickout until the handle returns to hold.

[kreft]

bump.............

[YellowDogSVC]

ConstructO, that is why it's important to keep the jumper on the tools that can take it, not just plugged into the machine and left there.
Also I am not sure what machine you have but if it is a gear pump then yes you will be putting out more flaw than allowed but not so with a Piston pump as on a high flow machine.

Yellowdog, to be honest I don't know what the strategy is on the C-series. I suspect it's the same as the B-series. As for the machine moving, the XPS has to kick out when the loader control (only loader, not travel) is moved, this is to keep from damaging the machines own hydraulic system (bucket lift ,tilt)which is not rated for 4100 psi.
So you CAN move the machine but you CAN'T move the bucket or XPS will kickout until the handle returns to hold.

Wouldn't that make it difficult to brush mow? After all, raising and lowering the mower and tilting it back to grind is standard for mowing.
I only saw the psi on the magnum mower I demoed hit 4000 2x and it was only for a brief second . Most of the time the psi hovered around 2000-2500.

Maybe this is another "beyond the brochure" realization for me.

[CarterKraft]

A small realization of hydraulics is probablly all you really need.

The pumps don't create pressure,they create flow. Pressure is a restriction to flow so...

When you were seeing the 2000-2500 psi the head wasn't loaded, at 4000 psi it was loaded enough to limit flow to the max pressure allowed.

Remember XPS and high flow are independent of each other. Even when XPS is off you are still getting the maximum available flow.

[ksss]

I spoke with in person the company that makes the 5000 psi system for CASE. Very interesting. They are now putting that system on all of the CASE higher hp machines including the 440. I cant remember what the hyd. hp was but it is incredible. If you run planers or maybe a brush grinder (not sure if they need that much pressure) it is the ticket. This company does a lot of other things, I will post a link to them as they do some cool stuff not only with the skid steers but backhoes.

[YellowDogSVC]

A small realization of hydraulics is probablly all you really need.

The pumps don't create pressure,they create flow. Pressure is a restriction to flow so...

When you were seeing the 2000-2500 psi the head wasn't loaded, at 4000 psi it was loaded enough to limit flow to the max pressure allowed.

Remember XPS and high flow are independent of each other. Even when XPS is off you are still getting the maximum available flow.

I need a better understanding of the CAT hydraulic system. My decision will be made tonight hopefully on the 272c.


I think the CASE 5000 psi system is an awesome way to put power to a grinding head but I personally don't have a head that could handle that kind of flow without damaging the motor. My CAT mower is only recommended for up to 4200 psi according to the factory sticker from FAE. I imagine 5000 psi would be pushing it but it's interesting. Does anyone know if it is like "on demand" or is it constant at that pressure? I have seen the larger frame mowers rated up to 6k psi but they are too big for a skid.

[CarterKraft]

your answer is in my last post.

Of course I don't know what kind of pump the CASE has but I will try to explain how pressure compensated flow controlled pump works.

The pump has a variable displacment rotating group, at zero pump angle the pump has a neutral zero gpm flow. As demand increases via a increase in pressure on the signal port teh pump upstrokes to maintain a margin of the pump pressure and signal port pressure. The compensator has a cutout pressure at which the pump no longer upstrokes at the time that pressure is reached. So when the cutter stalls and pressure spikes to 4100 psi there is little flow required to due to the cutter head is not turning and all of the flow is bypassing in the cutter head relief valves, ore work tool circuit relief valves which ever setting is lower. At this time the pump destrokes to maintain the same margin that was upstroking the pump before. As soon as you pull out of the stall the cutter starts turning again and pressure drops this upstrokes the pump back to max angle/flow if needed to get full RPM from the cutter. Once the rotor is spun back to the correct RPM the compensator starts balancing the flow once more, upstroking and destroking as required to maintain the correct work tool flow.

When XPS is engaged a solenoid shifts and changes the cut out pressure from 3300 to 4100 then the margin of the signal line keeps up with the flow.

So to answer your question if the pressure is constant, yes and know, if the flow through the work tool is restricted then pressure will increase to relief, if the rotor keeps turning pressure is low.

If you have a gear pump machine then the flow is constant and all oil flow over the relief valves pressure setting will dump back to tank. This type of system is not preffered because the pump is under a full flow at all times and causes allot of heat and excess horse power to run.

I am not sure if that helped any but it was worth a shot.

[bobcat_ron]

Yup, I'm lost now. Cat pumps good. Bobcat pumps bad. http://www.p1x44r.com/smiles/hmm.gif

[YellowDogSVC]

With an XPS or load compensating machine, seems to me that as a work tool (brush mower) bogs down, the higher pressure will kick in and keep that torque up on the rotor as long as the rotor is still turning resulting in faster recovering and powering through a tough stump or clump of brush. Hope I got it down! Bottom lines, CAT's will run cooler by nature AND have more reserve power with the XPS to power through things that might stall a constant gear pump machine. Tell me I am in the ballpark.

[CarterKraft]

I think you got it!

Pass go and get a cold one from the Fridge!

Now let me say, I don't anything about Bobcat, CASE or whoevers high flow skid steers so your opinions are still yours, I try to keep to the facts.

Just to cover it once more, XPS is secondary function of a CAT high flow system, providing a higher pressure when required for extra grunt.

[bubbas45]

The cat B models share the same plumbing for High and STD flows.
The High flow and XPS circuits are turned on via a rocker switch.
To activate the XPS system the work tool jumper must be installed at the work tool electrical connector.
XPS is a 4100psi setting of the auxillary hydraulics, and as such operating a non high pressure work tool on high pressure will blow seals, hoses etc.

I'm a bit slow, so let me make sure I understand this.
On a CAT B model you can:
1)run std flow via rocker switch
2) run high flow via rocker switch without jumper installed
3) run high flow + XPS via rocker switch with jumper installed

Is that right?

bws

[CarterKraft]

Yes. Confusing when you have all these options huh.

[bubbas45]

Yeah, but I like having choices--when I understand them.

Thanks.

bws