I fired my crew today

[little green guy]

Today I cought my guys doing a leaf cleanup with my equipment at one of my customers houses. When I finally found out where they where I went there, I took all my equipment, I was so pissed i fired them and told them they owed me the money they where making on the job because they where using my stuff and lied to me about it. I'm not sure what to do though, i fired all 3 guys but one of them has worked for me all year and is a realy good worker and pretty responsible (besides for today) and he was the least involved in this plot as far as i know, the other guys are totally done, but i'm thinking of maybe taking the one guy back if he makes amends. What do u guys think I should do? Oh yah they did give me some money but I know it's not what they made, and even so what they charged the customer was about 40% of what I charge. This was just one thing on top of a buch of other this that happened today, i realy did not have a good day. :angry: :angry: :angry:

[LAWNGODFATHER]

First off, I guess your not having your crews write down times on the jobs. Second do you have a way of communicating with them? Third no matter what anyone on here tells you, your crew was illegally stealing from you and you should prosecute them to the fullest of the law. Fourth if you don't need the help bad, I personaly wouldn't ask any of them to come back and work, unless they had no knowlage of the work being performed was not for you. If he/she did then you should prosecute them too. Don't let it go.

[stslawncare]

i agree with lgf completely, that was steeling no if ands or buts about it. i would be pissed too.

[little green guy]

I guess I forgot to mention that we wern't working today, one of the guys called me up this morning and asked if he could use a backpack blower and i told him ok because he was gonna use it to do the leaves at his house. When i got to the shop to work on plows today and i notiiced the equipment missing and somebody told me one of my guys took the stuff so i went and traked them down and cought them.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

CALL the POLICE. Don't mess around. That is a FELONY.

[stslawncare]

when u spoke with the guy did he specifically say he wanted the blower, or did he say can i borrow a blower and stuff to do leaves today, did he specifically say his house or did he say to do some leaves? even if the answer is yes its still wrong but if its no to all then i agree call the police

[TJLC]

Another compelling reason to stay solo. I only hire temp help if I have a big special job that I want to get done quicker. I'm sure there are some good reasons to have a crew but I have not heard enough for me to justify the nightmares I hear about having employee's. Good luck, I hope it works out ok for you.

[crazygator]

Personally, I think you did the only thing possible, to fire them! I really don't think you will get much for all the trouble to call police. What is it gonna do for you? You did get all your stuff back, so just let it go. I would not hire any of them back either. They all knew it was wrong and that is that. I hope it works out for you which ever way you go! And that's just another reason for me to stay solo too.

[AltaLawnCare]

Originally posted by TJLC
Another compelling reason to stay solo.

My thoughts exactly. When I use help, I can't concentrate on what I need to do, worrying about what they are up to.
:rolleyes:

[Ric]

Godfather is a hundren precent right it is stealing. But unforturely you have hurt your self by losing a crew. Been there done that. It hurts because now you have get another crew and train them. You are short people so now you will lose work at a time of the year when you can least afford it. These idiot were looking for a job when they found you so they are really not out any thing. They will just find someone else to seal from. I think the biggest problem we have is employee. I read where others post about customers I have no real problems with customer only employees not doing there job right and getting customer mad. I said been there done that and I would do it again and again We don't lie and we don't steal so sleep good tonight because you were right.

[LawnPro in NC]

Don't think you made a bad dicision at all. i wouldn't hire either back. I would also remember this incident if you are called for a ref:. As for stealing What did they steal. I know in this area it would not fly unless it can be proven they had no intentions on returning the equip.

For what it worth.:alien:

[Randy Scott]

Based on the fact that your profile states your 17 years old, I don't think you are old enough to prosecute anyone. I may be wrong on that, not sure though. If you take any of them back, whatever happens you deserve. Go out and get 3 more buddies to help you work. This is the only thing you CAUGHT them at, there is probably more you haven't or won't. Also, how have you been in business for 4 years and worked for someone the last 5? People have some odd statistics in their profiles.

[point]

I agree with LawnPro this is a civil matter not a criminal matter, unless your claiming they stole your equip.

Randy, if minors couldn't prosecute I would think people would steal them blind.

If your employee is truly remorseful and is a good worker I might take him back.

mark

[wolfpacklawn]

You should be upset at your customer also. Why were they doing business with your workers? Your employees don't receive payments from your customers do they? I'm sure your customer knew what was going on and he is a part of the problem. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to find out the customer was the one who suggested to your workers to do this. All and all this is a bad deal for you.
One thing that may have prevented this from happening is to have paid your crew leader enough money that he wouldn't take a chance doing something like this. If he realizes that he cant go out and easily get an equally paying job he may not risk something like this for fear of losing a well paying job. If you are paying him well and he did it anyhow then he is just an idiot and you will be well to get rid of him

[KerryB]

You did the right thing, just think I might have lost it if I had found them. Might have ended up in jail myself.
Just remember a hole is a hole you cant dig half a hole its a whole hole. If he was in it he was in it. Dont take any of them back and spread the word.

[little green guy]

Well i talked to one of the guys tonight and too the customer and I have gotton different stories from everyone and the stories keep changing. As for what I told the one guy was that he could take a blower, not "and stuff" but he never realy siad he was useing it for his house, he kinda impleided that though. The one i told could take the blower wasn't the one who took the rest of the stuff though, The other guy that i told couldn't take anything took the stuff.

Randy Scott- About my profile, I have worked with a company since like 98' or something and i have had my busness for 4 years, i've only been legal for like a year and a half though. I'm just about full time now, i go to school till 11:00 and then go to work and work past dark everyday. so i started young, :rolleyes: does it make any sence now?

[Albemarle Lawn]

An employee went to my house when I was out of town, got into my garage at midnight, an took my car for a drunken ride.

What was he thinking?

He has been with me for years and there have been many second chances I have given him when he did dumb things.

But this time he's TOAST!

I'm not prosecuting, but I'm comfortable with my decision to let him go. Dishonesty sucks, and never forget, YOU CAN'T SHINE SH*T SO DON'T TRY TO JUSTIFY WHAT THEY DID AND LET THEM CONTINUE WORKING FOR YOU!"

Get by on your own until next year. You'll save $ by laying off your bozos and working some weekends and eves to keep up. You'll be surprised at how efficiently you work solo when you have to!

Ken

[bubble boy]

good for you starting young. never too early!

from what youve said, the crew cheif might be worth keeping, although he better be on his best behavior. regardless of whether he was the "leader"in the scam, he knew what was going on.

as for the others, they arent worth it. if you keep them on, they know they can get away with murder. let them go and dont think twice about them.

[Guido]

From what I see you have bigger problems than the crew you just fired.

I hate to say it, and I'm only doing so to help, but I think you set yourself up for failure with these guys.

#1, it seems the guy you are sticking up for and want to take back has been with you the longest of the 3 and is the best worker of the 3. With that said, shouldn't he be that crew's foreman and in charge of the other 2 guys? If he is he is responsible for the actions of the other 2 guys, to an extent of course. If you have your crew set up with him at the top, he is the MOST responsible and should have to answer for what happened. I believe you need some kind of structure in a crew, especially if you are sending them out by themselves and having them deal with customers. If you don't want your employees dealing with your customers, let them know, and more importantly let the customer know that ALL jobs and ALL payments will be cordinated through you.

#2, you need to set up some accountibility systems like LGF said earlier. Have them keep a log with truck milage and time in and time out to all jobs. This will keep them honest and teach them that they will be accountable for all their actions. Show a deep intrest in this system and take it seriously so they stay on it and do it right.

I think this will help you out some.

[jeffex]

working with people under 18 doesn't give you much recource in recovering lost money. If you want to take the time to process a small claim in court you can recover loss but is it worth the time. Hiring 18 and older you can make them sign a NON-COMPETE letter that prohibits them from working on thier own or with another competitor in your specified territory. Usually dsignated by zip codes you work in and for up to 2 yrs after they leave your employment. I found my first one at www.smartagreements.com and then I personalized my own specific version. You still have to prosecute to make claim however you have it in writing that they have agreed to your terms. Mostly it is a deterant to what you just experienced. Making them think twice about stealing from you. And make no mistake they ripped you off. find out if the customer is in on te deal and drop them. if you are 17 and hiring your frends you need to send a message to the rest of your budies who may want to work for you. FIRE THEM. If you need thier help to finish the year out keep them on a tight leash until the season is over and then FIRE THEM. Or you will be just training your competition!!

[Craig Turf Management]

Man it sucks that you lost all of your help. Good thing it's near the end of the season though. If this senario happened to me, I would have let them all go. I wouldn't have asked for the money they made on the job.Just let the scum go. I would have serious discussions with the client who went through the back door to get this job done. I would think seriously about dropping that account.
There is no honor among thieves. Don't hire anyone back. Start with a fresh crew and lay down the ground rules from the beginning. This may be a breath of fresh air for your operation. Getting some new blood in the truck.


Just my opinion. Good luck, Bill!

[Runner]

I'd be curious to know exactly what the customer had to say. Maybe it was the employees that got this rolling, and the customer thought it was through the company. I had something like this happen to me when I first started out. I started out as a partnership. I later found out he was taking our equipment out,(by this time, I had thousands invested to his few hundred,) doing jobs on the side, and not reporting them. I told him to gather up his bookwork, and I'll be figuring out what he owes me. Needless to say, he didn't have any records, not a leg to stand on. Well, when we split up, I talked to all the customers, and based on what they saw of our work, and the ability to get the job done, most went with me. The few that didn't were calling me within two weeks, begging me to come back.With that, the few that remained after that, I decided to take it upon myself to call on them. They were all like, "We are so glad to see you!" So, I ended up with all the jobs, he ended up with nothing. I'm enjoying life (to the fullest) running my scrubby lco, and he's a bum that has since did time. Just MESS with me!:blob2:

[Green Care]

Well Green Guy !
I want to first say never loan or lend equipement.
2 Rental places are world wide.
3 Dont think of hiring this guy again.
4 That was the only time you cought them.


LISTEN to the godfather!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Antonio

[Island Lawn]

There is no honor among thieves.

The customer is guilty through association...if nothing else.
Drop 'em.
Since you're solo now, you'll need the spare minute to gather yourself/business...

You might be a while trusting employees again.

Definately set up an accountability system.

[deason]

Well as far as getting whats owed to you, do they have a check coming? If so, DONT PAY THEM!:blob4:

[little green guy]

Well, as far as acountablity, 80% of the time I am working with them and when i'm not they have to write everything down. The thing about yesturday is that we wern't even working, they had the day off because we're just about caught up with first cleaups and I'm starting final cleanups tomorrow so i gave them a break, thats what i get. They didn't have my truck though, they pulled the trailer with a bronco or something.

I am dropping the customer and the story I heard was that my guys called the cutomer up, or went to the door yesturday morning and said they would do it cheaper, it was a new cutomer so the people let them do it.

The one guy that has been with me the longest i am pretty sure that the other guys talked him into it because he is normaly honest and loyal and I don't think he would ever do something like this on his own, I've known him a long time. without the other guys around i don't think he would ever do something like this agian.

I do owe one off the guys a check also ( the guy that was the brains behind the opperation) and i don't think he'll see that.

[Blade]

Little Green Guy, look here don't be nieve. I know you're young but you don't need to have people working for you that you can't trust. You won't be able to grow you business if you're always watching your back.

Let all of them go and start over. It's happened to all of us that have had employees. It comes with the territory. You can just try to minimize it.

1) Look at having one man crews in the future and check out having GPS put on your trucks.

Good luck.

[little green guy]

I ended up getting rid of all of them and have two new guys starting tomorrow, thanks guys.

[Craig Turf Management]

Being the boss means you have to make the tough decisions. If you kept any of those clowns on your team, you'd always have to worry about what they were doing behind your back. Now your new crew will know they are replacing a crew that stole from you. They will know that you are a man who expects honesty among his employees. Now take this as a fresh start and run with the new momentum.
Take care, Bill!

[Pacific Nursery]

Based on my past experience you:
1. Got some $ for their work, now let that go.
2. Fired them all, now let that go.
3. Decide whether or not the customer is culpable and keep or let go.
4. Go with your FIRST instinct!!! Let them all go. This guy will eventually burn you again. I have done this several times and I have had the same result each and every time.
Good luck.
Persistance pays, don't quit.

[Guido]

Originally posted by little green guy
I ended up getting rid of all of them and have two new guys starting tomorrow, thanks guys. Reread my first post in this thread, because you never did answer my question about why this "good" guy that has been with you the longest isn't some type of cre leader or foreman in your absense to keep somewhat of a better hold on these situations.

You should feel out these new guys and "groom" one of them to be a leader figure for the other and any future employees.

Good Luck, and please take this into consideration!

[laserman]

It may not be technicaly stealing but if you take someone's car without asking but bring it back, it's called unathorized use of a motor vehicle. I would think this would also apply to this situation and as far as I know it's a felony.
Good Luck !!:blob2:

[MuskTurfKing]

And this is why I plan on staying solo, less headache with everything. :)

Hank

[Evan528]

Hank, I said the same thing as you a year ago. But after 7 years of being solo i just began getting too burned out and got tired turning down profitable work because i didnt have the man power and time to do it. This year has been my first year with employees. Though it has been stressful at times... Over all Its a whole lot better then trying to do everything your self. I can handle more work now, Make more money and I no longer work 7 days a week!

[mmorgan]

You did the right thing by firing all of them. If one or all get away with it, it will happen again. Start fresh with new people and try to groom a foreman as Guido has stated. BTW, I would hold a portion of the last check if possible. Maybe consult your lawyer about it.

:blob4:

[65hoss]

Always handle management problems swiftly. You want to always stay in control.

[KindGardener]

If my crew was doing side work, taking payment directly from my customers, using my equipment to do the work.... those would be my "ex-employees" within a heartbeat!

I am really blessed with the guys I have... Just this week, one of my customers gave both of my guys cash tips (ten bucks each). I didn't see it happen, the only way I knew is they came to me to give me the cash. Of course, I told them to go ahead & keep it (Hey they work hard).

Best of luck with your next employees.