Best 21" trim mower (cut??)

[mac43rn]

I am looking to purcahse a very good quality bush mower trim around landscaping and mow my fron yard. My main goal is cut quality. I want it to stand very high (have a nice lift, not just push the grass over). My second goal is mulching and then bagging. I have been looking at the jx 75, toro super recycler and the honda line. Can anyone lead me in the right direction. Again I want to mulch and I want the cut quality to be the best in the market. Thanks in advance. This is a great site.


-Also this will be for residential use. I know this is a commercial forum, but I would rather get advice from a professional.

[MATTHEW]

TORO and HONDA both are great mowers. Just stay away from the Snappers. The mulching is good with the Ninja blades, but the cut overall is crappy.

[stslawncare]

use the search feature we had this same exact question last week.

[mac43rn]

scottie, you need to calm down. I did a search and I found a topic "what 21" trim mower." That to me is not the same question. Some people may use a yard man because they don't want to spend the money on a higher priced mower (nothing against yard man). I on the other hand have decided to put some money into my mower, and I am looking for the best possible cut. So in reference to your repsonse, "use the search feature we had this same exact question last week", you are wrong.

[stslawncare]

u mean to tell me nothing about best 21"? nothing in that last thread about how they cut? do u think we would not use the best? dont u think we try to get the best we can?

[Evan528]

Scottie, I know i dont buy the best 21 inch mower. Ussually just gte the cheapest one with height adjustment on the wheels!

[mac43rn]

dont u think we try to get the best we can?

Do you think your 22" craftsman is the best cut out there? I have had a craftsman and beleive me, they are not the best cut. If you believe they are, I feel sorry for you customers. This is my point!

[Eric ELM]

I have a JD 21" and I don't feel it is the best cut out there, but I do like having the clutch on it. Here is a search with 52 threads on 21" mowers that might help you.

http://lawnsite.vbulletinhosting.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=43950&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

[mac43rn]

thanks

[kutnkru]

Originally posted by stslawncare
do u think we would not use the best?I took that post to be about what was the most economical approach to purchasing a trim mower. ;)

I have two of the older sensation mowers that I have mesh catchers with. I also have a yardman 6.5hp that I use for larger applications that need a trim mower.

As for the topic of what 21" delivers the best cut my answer would be the Snapper because their decks seem to promote the highest amount of vacuum. You would also need to replace those polastic wheels with a steel rimmed, wide rubber tread to eliminate rutting the turf.

Kris

[Likestomow]

I have the model that is just up from the Home Depot model. It is the model 10525 and has the alloy deck and three speeds. It's much more heavy duty than the HD model.

I like mine because it is so easy to start, change cutting height, and is so rugged. I also feel the rear bagging system is very superior to others because the bag is so easy to mount and dismount when full.

I would reccommend that you go and look at one of these models (10525) and see for yourself. My dealer allowed me to try it out before buying it. They run a little over $500, but they are tough.

[keifer]

I think the best would only be someones opinion. I have a honda 216 with 3 speeds it is a goodmower the only thing I would change would be the bagger it fills up to fast.

[GLS]

I have a deere jx75...its great. I only bag with it, so I couldn't tell you how it mulches. I only chose it cuz it has a blade clutch on it. Good trim mower.

PS: lawn boys suck nowadays.

[grassyfras]

TORO Supper Recycler. I used it on 12 lawns and barly ever doubled cut with it. Very few repairs and best cut i ever seen from a 21"

[walker-talker]

I have the JX85 (not much different than the JX75) and I am happy with it. I have had it 3 years and no problems other than the handle for the blade clutch has fallen off a few times (twice bouncing around on the trailer).
Matt

[mac43rn]

how does the jx85 mulch?

[odin]

We have the commercial exmark which is a toro and a honda 216 hydro ,baging the honda is best mulching the toro .the bag fills up fast on the honda and it dont mulch worth nothing but when bagging the cut quality is the best ive seen on a 21in and it gets very little buildup under the deck
hope this helps you some

[Scag48]

Toro Super Recycler is the best mulcher. Honda is the best bagger out there. I like Honda's hydrostatic and blade cluth better though. If the Honda's mulch as good as Toro does, they'd be awesome. I'm not much of a JD fan as far as 21" mowers go. I know someone that hit a 1/2 inch piece of gravel and it shot right through the deck. Didn't think it would do that...

[vipermanz]

any 2cycle lawnboy

[casey]

Originally posted by vipermanz
any 2cycle lawnboy

Vipermanz speaks the truth.
A LB Comm is the lightest, most powerful, best side discharge, best bagging (with the side bag), 21" on the market.
One drawback: You cannot put doubles on a LB as is possible withe a Toro Proline.
The cut is pretty much the same on any 21" comm mower so look for other variables.

[Double D]

I vote Toro first, then Honda second.

[TGCummings]

Toro Recycler would be my vote. Mulches better than my 36" Exmark TTHP and, if you need it, switching to a bagging mower takes only seconds.

I used to bag with it as well, and it had a better overall cut than the Snappers or Kubotas I used to run.

[bubble boy]

cut quality....

1st off we only use toro. bullet proof tough, fast, good for bagging.

but cut quality average at best. since this is your main concern lawnboy cut is much superior. bagging with the toro is only equal to mulching with the LB in terms of quality, in my opinion. and LB cheaper.

but LB does suck for bagging, and those wheels still seem weird to me. you might like the LB wheels, i know theyre supposed to make trimming around obstacles easier(which you desired).

also remember most posting about toro are likely referring to self propelled models. if you dont mind pushing, the LB is about 3/4 the price of the toro. stay away from the self propelled LB.:cool:

[johnhenry]

I vote for toro 1st then honda is a close second . But look at lawn boy also there a good machine and very light to use.

[walker-talker]

I don't have a problem with the JX85 mulching. I honestly don't have anything to compare it to.....it is my first 21', other than a yard machine....lol....and that is no comparison.....i have heard more good things about the 21 Honda than any other mower

[dlandscaping]

i ve owned at one time or another almost every 21 mower including snapper john deere toro honda lawnboy sears murray white yard machine (man) mtd cub cadet ariens scotts husquarvana u name it ive prolly had one for a short time. i like self propelled and bbc. of all these mowers i would say that toro or honda ar the best overall. cut quality depends on blades used and the height mowed at. i can make a sears cut as well as a $1000 mower if it is set low enough. the toro in my experience is the best mulcher and lawnboy is right behind it. for bagging i would say toro honda or snapper. all very good machines with similar cut quality. drawbacks are found with every mower. i find the snapper body to be cheaply made with the wheels just bolted to the top of deck(if u look at a snapper you will understand) the honda when mulching sometimes leaves a trail and the bag is hard to get on and off, the toro is my favorite with a good strong body and easily adjustable wheels the bag fits on pretty easy for most models. if you are looking for a good toro stay away from the new cheapo models at hq these are not real toros just to let you know. and scottie for every single post you have replied use search obviously most members know that.

[GLS]

I know someone that hit a 1/2 inch piece of gravel and it shot right through the deck
I can hardly believe that...you have a pic or anything? I have a jd and that deck might not be the best, but it's still pretty strong. I bang the deck into things all the time, and it's still in good shape. Also, I couldn't pick up a piece of gravel if I wanted to. It wouldn't suck it up.

[casey]

Originally posted by bubble boy

1st off we only use toro.
but LB does suck for bagging, stay away from the self propelled LB.:cool:

You must be bagging alot in the spring if you're using Toro.
We bag nothing with the LB side discharge.
The side bag attachment for the LB clogs much less in thick turf than Toro' rear bag if you must resort to this unproductive practice.
The sp LB's cables & wheels will last if they are properly & frequently greased.

[TLS]

I find my staggered wheel LB to be a great mower. I have NOT found ANY mower yet that has the SUCTION that "I" WANT at 3-4". The LB only goes up to 3" and at that height, quite honestly cuts like crap! Sure any mower will cut great at 2", but my lawns are all cut at 3 1/4" to 4". Kinda hard to use the LB without noticing a height difference. I have cranked up the RPM's on the LB and still am not totally satisfied with the cut. The blades just don't have enough of a lift wing (matter of fact, they notch the top corners off!!!???)

Here's what I want! Very light weight aluminum deck like a LB, 2 stroke engine like a LB, Fuel capacity like a Comm. LB, HIGH lift blades like....a Dixie Chopper, 2" to 4" cutting heights in 1/4" increments. Deeper deck than a LB. Dont really care for the staggered wheel setup but its no real biggie. Would like 10" Steel ball bearing wheels (not 6" and 8"). I dont need or want a bagger, but if it had one as an option I may get it. Dont need or want self propelled. Just a simple trim/pool/boulevard/island mower. Must cost less than $500.00.

Well, I'm probably the only one that would buy it, right?! Don't know, but would love to invent/produce something like this.

What do you guys think?

[vipermanz]

Originally posted by casey



One drawback: You cannot put doubles on a LB as is possible withe a Toro Proline.


i need to start working on a way to allow dbl blades on a lb, maybe a bracket of some sort:confused: . the problem is the two bolt mounting of the blade

[casey]

Originally posted by vipermanz


i need to start working on a way to allow dbl blades on a lb, maybe a bracket of some sort:confused: . the problem is the two bolt mounting of the blade

The LB Comms have a single lock-nut set up.
The problem for doubles is the ridged blades. This can be circumvented on the Toro by using Toro Gator on top & an LB Gator on the bottom.

[vipermanz]

:confused: mine doesn't have that bolt setup, but i think i'm getting somewhere on a possible solution;)

[Eng Mwr Guy]

Mac

If you are interested in best bagging the Ariens line-up compares favorably against all mentioned.

As usual, compare one against another to determine for yourself in your normal cutting conditions.

Thank You

Barry

[casey]

Barry,
Why is it that more manufacturers, yours included, do not offer a designated side discharge 21" com unit? The discharge plugs clog & rear bagging is inferior to side bagging in thick turf.

[Eng Mwr Guy]

I do not know why.

I will try to find out though.

Thank You

Barry

[65hoss]

Casey, there is no market for a side discharge only 21". Who wants one? You would want the added attachments at some point.

[Eng Mwr Guy]

Unless it is a throw away mower.

I believe Craftsman, AYP, Murray, and others have this covered pretty well.

Barry

[TLS]

Originally posted by 65hoss
Casey, there is no market for a side discharge only 21". Who wants one? You would want the added attachments at some point.


Nope, never used the bagger attachment for my staggered wheel push Lawnboy. Used in on my older one about 3x's never on the new one.

Just a simple, push mower. Check back on the first page (I think) and you'll see what I want built.

If you make this, you'll sell at least one in the states (me) and one in Canada (Casey)!!

[casey]

Lawnboy makes a designated side discharge com unit with superior bagging capabilities in thick turf when used with a side bag attachment. There seems to be a market for these units.

[Guido]

Toro COMMERCIAL for all around trim mower if you had to have just one. I say commercial for a few reasons that have already been discussed in depth so I won't go into it again. If you can't go with the commercial line, order the metal pieces that bolt onto the height adjustment settings. Believe me, those things suck when they wear out and your wheels start jumping to different settings.

For a lot of hills and rough terrain I used a 2 cycle OLD lawnsboy side discharge. Worked good and didn't beat up the engine on hills as much as a 4 cycle. Never did like the look of the stripe from the 3rd wheel though.


Now, I have a question.

Anyone tried the new Exmark walk behinds yet?? They look like a solid mower, modeled after the Toro I assume?

[odin]

GUIDO

I have the exmark 21 and it is a toro only differece is the toro has
the recycler kickers in the deck

[TGCummings]

Originally posted by odin00
GUIDO

I have the exmark 21 and it is a toro only differece is the toro has
the recycler kickers in the deck

So...

The Exmark 21 would not be as capable for mulching as the Toro?

[casey]

Exmark 21" is the exact same mower. I take the Recycler kickers off the Toro's anyway as they seem to induce clumping in thick turf.

[odin]

Originally posted by TGCummings


So...

The Exmark 21 would not be as capable for mulching as the Toro?

I have found that to be true .But you can take it to a toro dealer and for about 75 bucks they can put them on for you .But to me you may as well buy the toro to start with because the exmark around here is a 1000 bucks.The reason i have one is i got it for
it for absolutely nothing .MY uncle in memphis is a big wig at a trucking outfit down there and for some reason that companey gave him one, he did not need it so he gave it to me

[kutnkru]

I dont know if they are even in production today or not but for those of you with die-hard mulching necessaties why not check into a dedicated mulching mower like a bolens.

I ran into a friend of my granddads today and thats what he has been using for the longest time -since I can remember. The deck was designed for maximum airflow and its not a 3.n.1 or a bagger if you like.

BTW I would NEVER spend the kind of change that eXmark and Toro want for their 21" units. I dont think I would purchase one of them thar POS' even if I did hit the lottery -LOL!!!

Just my .02
Kris

[casey]

Kickers are a marketing gimmick. As soon as you hit thick turf or get any kind of buid-up under the deck, they prevent good circulation of clippings & cause trailing or clumping.

[RB]

Do yourself a favor and don't read any other posts -- just get a commercial duty lawnboy -- end of discussion.

[TGCummings]

Originally posted by kutnkru
BTW I would NEVER spend the kind of change that eXmark and Toro want for their 21" units. I dont think I would purchase one of them thar POS' even if I did hit the lottery -LOL!!!

Kris,

I assume you say this because you don't need a workhorse 21 like those of us on the west coast, eh? If you needed a primary 21" mower, I assume you'd get the very best that money can buy. ;)

[casey]

Originally posted by kutnkru

BTW I would NEVER spend the kind of change that eXmark and Toro want for their 21" units. I dont think I would purchase one of them thar POS' even if I did hit the lottery -LOL!!!


What about that 150 lb. Honda hydro com. 21", you hauled in & out of a truck bed all season???????? That baby costs more than any 21" on the market?????????????

[odin]

Originally posted by casey


What about that 150 lb. Honda hydro com. 21", you hauled in & out of a truck bed all season???????? That baby costs more than any 21" on the market?????????????

You got that right mine costs 1150

[kutnkru]

Tom

I see your point. However I just find it hard to justify the cost of those machines when they have several downsides to them for such a costly sticker.

I find that these units are extremely heavy compared to many of the lighter models available. I know of one guy who bought the eXmark version of the Toro and he paid like $600 for a non-propelled unit!!!

I have to be fair though .... if this size were to be my primary machine I would probably either purchase a JD with the swivel wheels from The Home Cheapo or an Ariens with the swivel wheels.

I just have a hard time accepting these highly priced units for such a small machine that IMHO are something that gets replaced every other season. It almost seems as though a 32" would be the way to fly and then just re-order a $169 Crapsman trim mower every 3 yrs.

Mixed feelings here. :rolleyes:

[kutnkru]

Casey I said that I hossed it around this is true. I didnt say a DAMN thing about purchasing the unit -LOL!!! I was working for a friend down south - his denero not mine. :D

[odin]

Originally posted by RB
Do yourself a favor and don't read any other posts -- just get a commercial duty lawnboy -- end of discussion.

We have the one with the gallon gas tank .the rpms are 3000 under no load you think they should be raised some ?how do you do it on a lb the kawasakis are easy but i ever messed with an lb before

[TGCummings]

Kris,

I've tried other models (though not the ones you mentioned!) for hundreds cheaper and, yes, I replaced them once or twice a season. My $1000 21" Toro Recyclers, however, seem to withstand the punishment. I've had one (the real workhorse!) for two years now and it seems ready for another two (though some work will be required!) and my other one for nearly a year. I save the second one for nice properties and expect it to last me several more years. The workhorse gets to plow through weeds, uneven terrain, rocks, etc. ;)

[GLS]

Does anyone have a 21" with caster wheels? I almost bought an ariens w/casters but decided to get a deere instead...I know the casters are lockable, but when unlocked is it difficult to keep a straight line? and on hills?

[Eng Mwr Guy]

That is why a remote lockout feature is a good idea. I wouldn't purchase a JD swivel lock it doesn't work very well.

Due to the higher price of our consumer units and the robustness of design a lot of landscapers use the Ariens consumer units. It is a heavy machine but can easily stand the (ab)use.

My $.02.

Barry
Ariens/Gravely Engineer

[casey]

Welded an Ariens swivel wheel kit, expensive ($200 Cnd.), on a Honda 21". Made the unit much easier to maneuver.
Purchased the kit through dealer, I believe it was Ariens.

[Eng Mwr Guy]

Even better, just buy an Ariens WB.....course I'm biased.... :-)

Barry
Ariens / Gravely

[casey]

Barry, I'm sure Ariens make a quality machine but with our turf conditions I won't even consider a 21' without a designated side discharge any more. Wouldn't buy a larger WB without a side discharge, same goes for a 21".

[rixtag]

OK, I get it the best is what you own...right? Just jokin'.
I have a question for you. What are the advantages of having a 2 stroke over a 4 stroke, besides the steep hills/oil starvation problem. I want answers from you guys that have used them long term. I really am thinking about a LB commercial 2 stroke and I want real world answers.

Thanks,
Rick

[dlandscaping]

2 cycle machines have fewer working parts in them and have less maitnence than 4 cycle engines. in my experience 2 cycle if used with proper mixed gas will last very long and usually longer than 4cycles. they are also usually a little less horsepower. (toro offers 6-6.5 for a4 cycle and 5.5 for a 2 cycle)

[odin]

Also no sticking valves and also no oil filters to buy

[casey]

Lighter.

[vipermanz]

Originally posted by casey
Lighter.

yes.

[Bill Davis]

hey i have a snapper with gator blades and i love it
i have two of them and they still run great
the bagging on these is terrific and you cant beat the ground speed. I put some belt dressing spray on the self propelled and they have very little slippage in the rain. I recommend the snapper.