Yellow Pages Ads

[JimLewis]

I know we've talked about a lot of other forms of advertising here lately. And I support most of them. But speaking specifically to those of you who advertise via the yellow pages (and particularly to those who have done so for years), I have a few questions;<p>1) Do you find that there is a significant jump in response depending on the size of the ad you take out? In my experience, my previous small ads have not been very effective, but my new large ad seems to be working real well. <p>2) What size of ad do you currently have and what have you had in the past? What kind of results (calls per week throughout the various seasons) have you had from each ad? <p>3) What percentage of your business would you attribute as a direct result of your YP ads? (in contrast to your other advertising)<p>4) Do you advertise in multiple phone books? In my area there are 3 major phone book companies that supply books to all the homes and companies. And among those 3 companies they further divide things by producing different types of books (some cover the entire metro region, others cover only a few cities). So far, I have just concentrated on the one that has the greatest market share in my area. But I am considering mulitple books next year. <p>5) Any other comments regarding ad design (color vs. b&w, content, etc.) or any other comments regarding advertising? <p>Thanks for taking the time to respond. <p>----------<br>Jim Lewis - Lewis Landscape Services<br>http://www.lewislandscape.com

[nlminc]

Jim, I know this is not an answer to your quesrion, but how many landscapers are in the book that you advertise with? I gave up on advertising in the yellow pages. I counted today the number of companies listed in my book and it added up to 182. When I advertised before I got shoppers who made the threat that they were getting 8-12 quotes. Do you have this problem in your area? <br>Chris

[sunrise]

i only adv. the community phone of certain areas I will service. the metro book has too many companys listed.<br>my ad is 1/3 page and I get 500 calls off of 2 books. half went with me and the other didnt or did nothing at all.<br>some of my business came from companys I bought out about<br>i havent done a color ad onlt b/w<br>

[Nilsson Associates]

What I found about Yellow Page ads while I was in th bizz and since then:<p>1. Bigger is better<br>2. Color is better<br>3. A round circular ad stands out because everybody uses squares or rectangles.<br>4. A reverse ad (yelolow letters on a black background) stands out better than black letters on a yellow background.<br>5. Use the word FREE in you ad, make it real<br>big because that word is the most powerful word in advertising. The second most powerful word is the word SECRET.<br>6. In column ads don't do much, display ads is way to go or choose another media if it's not affordable.<br>7. If your market is &quot;hot&quot;, everybody busy,<br>Yellow Pages should work just fine. But if the market is not busy, too many competitors for available work, you may have to go with an even bigger ad, but expect plenty of company on the bids.<br>8. Offer a fat discount in your ad, offer free landscape design, free something that's significant.<br>9. Don't crowd the ad with details of all you do with those endless &quot;bullet items&quot;<br>Landscape Design - Build - Maintain is all you need along with specialize in irrigation or whatever. <br>10. Suggest you spread ad budget around to include some direct mail, telemarketing to residential and commercial, ads taken in small town bargain hunter newspapers.<p>Nilsson.Assoc@Snet.Net<p>

[JimLewis]

nlminc, <p>to answer your question, there aren't that many in our yellow pages under the Lawn Maintenance section. There are a TON in the Landscape Contractor's section and it will be a long while if I ever touch that section. But in the Lawn Maintenance section I am one of only 8 or so display ads. Mine is the biggest and in #1 position and it's only a 1/6 page ad. <p>To Nilsson, thanks for the comments above! Excellent advice. I agree with it all and I learned a few things I didn't know. Thanks so much! -Jim<p>----------<br>Jim Lewis - Lewis Landscape Services<br>http://www.lewislandscape.com

[mountain man]

I have found my yellow page ad does two things: advertise and offer creditibility to my business

[lawrence stone]

A ad in a phone book does not offer any<br>creditibility.<p>But a BS in agronomy does.<br>

[Kent Lawns]

Speaking of BS.......

[mattingly]

I agree with lawrence here. It looks good when you say you have a BS in hort. or agron. Also, being a member of certain associations looks good. Yeah I know some people will disagree but what I am trying to say is that it shows an education of some sort. Doctors, as well as many others, constantly attend continuing education courses. Well being a graduate or attending whatever you are a member of's trade shows and courses shows you care about your profession and are up to par with the latest techniques and procedures.<p>----------<br>Integrated Landscape Solutions<br>Lexington, KY

[JimLewis]

While I've never personally been asked about my education level in lawn care, I suppose to SOME people, it might make a difference. But I'd bet it's very few. <p>Meanwhile, I beg to differ that the yellow pages ad doesn't show credibility. To a lot of people it shows a lot of credibility. It demonstrates that you have a serious company with a business line, decent credit with your yellow pages company, and that you have a big enough business to afford a yellow pages ad. People respect that. It sets you apart from the guy who is mowing lawns on weekends for beer money. It's not everything when it comes to credibility but I would argue that it does at least ad to it. <p>I know for most other professions (including most other types of contractors) I shop primarily in the yellow pages. I guarantee ya this - I wouldn't ever shop for a painter, car mechanic, roofer, etc. who advertises in the nickel ads or the local classifieds. Some people would. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't advertise there. But there are people who won't go anywhere but the yellow pages. And to those people, it does ad credibility. <p>However, in my opinion, there are a lot more important things that ad credibility to your business. Things like your overall company image, your personal appearance, your attitude, your integrity, and your performance. These things FAR outweigh any other B.S. <p>----------<br>Jim Lewis - Lewis Landscape Services<br>http://www.lewislandscape.com

[HOMER]

I have has a yellow page ad since June of '99.<br>Does it work? Yes<br>Will it pay off? I hope so<br>How much is it? In 2 directorys $300.00 per month!<p>In order to place an ad in the yellow pages you also have to have a business line. My flat monthly fee for the business line is around $70.00 per month. <p>For a $4440.00 investment it ain't the cheapest form of advertisement, but it has brought in quite a few customers I would not have had otherwise. If I keep all the customers I gained from it I will more than pay for the cost of it.<p>This year, since I have about hit my limit, I chose to go with a name and number vs. a big ad, and it will only be in one directory. The cost will now be $13.70 per month.<p>If you have tried everything else and it didn't seem to bring in what you wanted, run the ad for a year until you get to a comfortable # of accounts then back it down to a very basic ad like I did. You will still be back there, and listed in the white pages as well, but it won't cost you nearly as dearly. By then you should be past the scratch and claw stage and be in a better position to pick and choose.<p>Like the G.T.E. man told me, the first $300.00 you make a month is ours!<br>He was right.<p>Homer

[mountain man]

From a credibility standpoint I feel it means a ton. If someone sees and remembers our name from somewhere and then goes to call and we are not listed, then we automatically loose a ton of creditibility.<p>I also agree that education is important but not only for me but also for my crews. My crew leaders often have as much or more personal contact with the homeowner as I do. So it is important for them to be able to explain some of the things we are doing.<p>A BS in agronomy may be nice but I feel it is far more important once you get in front of the customer to be able to show off what you have done in the past and what your company can do. I bet there are many a phd out there in specific fields that would not have a clue of how to handle multiple work crews, follow up visits, landscape construction, irrigation, etc. I have never been asked to show my diploma, but I am regularly asked for references of other customers. <p>Also I agree with Jim that there are other important areas that offer creditibility or can can destroy it. One bad action from an employee can destroy months of image building with a customer. From an association standpoint, I feel the Better Business Bureau is well worth the expense. <p>One other thought I feel is critical with the phone book is to go ahead and and spend the money for a business line (and white page listing) even if you are working out of the house. It is very unprofessional in my opinion if someone calls in and the first impression of your company is a kid answering the telephone.<p>mm <br>

[HOMER]

I have been in business for over 5 years now and never once has anybody asked me if I belonged to an orginization or if I had a degree. I would love to have all this hanging over my head but frankly, it would not have made one difference in my business or if my customers respected me. I am respected and referred because I treat them right and give them the time they need when they want to talk about their ailments or whatever.<p>As I said, I know I need to further my education, and I intend to, but it will probably be in the business related field first. My ad has no mention of education or member of nothing, but they continue to call just the same.<p>Homer

[Nilsson Associates]

Yellow Page Ads ...<p>Just for the heck of it, I just took a walk through my Yellow Page phonebook ... looked up landscapers and this is what got my attention ... ads that I noticed first and began to read.<p>1. The color red ads or red lettering got my attention first, then came the color green, and the last was those ads in all black.<p>2. Real big phone numbers as opposed to real small phone numbers caught my eye better.<p>3. Ads with lots of artwork like trees or plants (overlayed) in the background .. were hard to read, confusing to look at. Too cute looking, harder to read with all that stuff in the picture, had to look hard to see the printed stuff.<p>4. WHERE the business was located was important to me because I would choose a local company, close by before calling an &quot;out of towner&quot;.<p>5. I looked at the bigger ads first, but not if those bigger ads were all black ink, I did look at the red ads first .. even though they were smaller.<p>6. I didn't spend a lot of time reading all the fine print .. where folks listed in endless detail all the stuff they did like a bullet lineup of things like ... we do planting, mowing, retaining walls, stone work, plowing, lawn construction and so on. <p>7. I took special notice of those companies that had been around for a long time and said so like ... serving the area since 1979 or over 20 years experience.<p>8. I also took notice and felt reassured in one ad that said the person had an A.S. Arborculture and a B.S Horticulture <p>9. For the in-column ads, the ones I went to first were those printed in bold red letters.<p>10. There were two display ads that had the same green &quot;dominating color&quot; within the ads and I found myself &quot;thinking&quot; that they were somehow connected .. not the same company .. but the colors &quot;blended&quot; them together and gave them some sort of &quot;sameness&quot;. <p>11. One ad had a picture &quot;photo&quot; and while that one was mostly black and yellow &quot;color&quot; did catch my attention.<p>Okay ... which company would I have called given all of the above? I would have called the company that gave me the most amount of &quot;name recognition&quot;. But if I were a &quot;newcomer&quot; in town, I would probably go with the company who pointed out the number of years in business, and that the company was local so if I wanted to, I could make a few reference calls to neighbors.<p>Nilsson.Assoc@Snet.Net<br>

[mattingly]

I regards to my earlier post.<br>Yeah I understand what a lot of you are saying about not having or displaying anything in your ads. But here in my market, if both of us were to come in for the first time this year, offering the same prices and everything, I'd put the squeeze on you with my credentials and education. That's all the prospective client has to go on. That is what I am talking about. I know if you already have experience and references it isn't as important. But to get your feet off the ground, every little bit helps. Oh, and trust me my degree gives me endless options in this field. I can literally do it all. If its green I can grow it and maintain it. But again that isn't the point. I understand you all I hope you understand where I am coming from.<p>----------<br>Integrated Landscape Solutions<br>Lexington, KY

[HOMER]

Mattingly,<br>Your degree can't even get you in the door with that puffed up attitude! I agree an education is great, wish I had one! But whats more important to obtaining business is you, your personality is what will get you in first, then you might win out with all the other stuff if you don't cram it in everybody's faces. <p>I know you are energetic and have everything laid out just like you want it, but until you get out of the classroom and into the real world, you don't know a thing. Tone down the fact that you have all these credentials, it might be beneficial on a resume if you want to be hired by someone else but it is secondary to Mom & Pop on Maple St. who just want a guy to do good work. List it where you want, let it ease out into a discussion when the time is right, but don't count on it alone to propell you into the limelight. You're going to be up against others with less education but more experience. If I need an electrician to wire something for me, I'm going to call the guy who has been doing it for a while, not one fresh out of a trade school. This reply is not meant to be a derogatory one, but an eye opening one. Please don't take it the wrong way.<p>Homer

[mountain man]

Mattingly:<br>You mentioned that you would put the squeeze on a rookie. How do you know when to put on the &quot;squeeze&quot; and when not to. Typically, when I give a bid I know there are others but I do not have a clue who it is and what their credentials are. My fear would be if I go heavy on credentials my competitior may pull out more credentials (eg phd on staff, high visibility landscape jobs in the area, 30-40 year company history, etc) Especially on the bigger jobs, some of these companies are owned by much bigger parent companies. I also think it is alright to show your individual training but I think it is just as important to make sure employees (eg landscape foreman) are well trained and knowledgeable. No matter how much I know, if my employees don't know what they are doing then it breaks down both my and my company's credibility.

[mattingly]

I wanted to bring this post back into play at this time of year to get a response from people who have had all year to look at it. Please ignore the portion about the education. That's not the point I want to discuss. I want to find out more about yellow page ads and what to use. Nilson was very informative but I want your responses and reactions after a year of usage. We are getting ready to put in our first ad and I want to get the most value out of our dollar. Therefore if you could list:

1 how well it worked
2 What you did if it worked
3 What you'd change
4 Your recommendations

we have one phonebook in our area and are planning on spreading our budget around in three areas or so.

5,000 to phone book
5,000 to weekly newspaper ad
5,000 to other, trade show, fliers, etc.

We are a garden center that offers maintenance, design install, and ponds. THere is a decent amount of competition but room for more in the garden center area and maintenance. I think thus far we have looked at a 1/8 ad in landscape contractors, another 1/8 in garden center and a listing in ponds and maintence with pointers to our other ads. Our name will put us first or second in contractors listing. We have small ad with colored letters and design maintence ponds installation bulleted. We are trying this b/c it gives us a broad exposure in many areas. But, is that a good thing?
thanks,

[HBFOXJr]

Everything being said here is about "if I were..." Your not the buyer, your the seller. The sooner you understand how the customers thinks and their attitudes the sooner you'll develop better advertising or in some cases eliminate advertising. I hate the word "free" and other "value added" psyco-babble that advertisers and consultants want to dabble with. All that stuff brings is people you got to qualify and get rid and never estimate or waste time estimating rather than sell to them. If you can't interest them with something other than gimicks your gonna waste alot of time and have a lot of short relationships or jobs.

Figure out why people have called you in the past and what their reasons or problems were and start putting the common threads together to see the picture that emerges. It's not about you and what you think, it's about the cutomer and what they think.

I know I don't have it down afte 30 years of doing it and using professionals for advise. I've defied my wife and her, I wouldn't, don't shop/buy like that and the pro's too and have started to turn a few corners and opened some minds.

I have a BS in Horticulture and have belonged to state and national associations. The degree helps greatly to sell and produce quality turf and irrigation systems. Especially true when I can back up what I say with trade magazine and university articles and research. The degree sways a few but it hasn't been a big initial draw. It doesn't draw because people don't have a high regard for the industry. First because it involves outdoor manual work that some do as kids or a sideline and second because of the many uneducated "professionals" that pawn themselves off as knowledgable business people. Third reason is that consumers are greedy and want to shop for price as in retail merchandise and can't or won't accept that this industry is about contracting for labor or technical services and there are big differences.

Someone once said "it is better to spend more than you planned than less than you should." So true when selling a potential customer or in operating your business.

I don't think asociation memberships or credentials are worth anything in marketing or sales but are only of value if they help you operate your business. Don't buy a membership for prestige.

[JML]

Hello, we have two different phone books here in my area of NJ. The phone companies and The Yellow Book. The salesman for yellow book contacted me and we met. I wound up buying a 1/3 page ad in lawn maintenance and a 1/3 page ad in landscape contractors, we also got listings under a lot of other headings. They also hooked us up on their internet directory. After everything was all said and done it came out to $470 a month! He was a very good salesman and made a lot of promises that didn't come true. I have gotten maybe 5 or 6 calls a month from these ads. It is not worth it at all. They even messed up both of my ads, thats luckily how I got out paying. I wouldn't recommed using the Yellow Book if they are in your area. They didn't even distrubute the books to a lot of areas they said they would. I was also like the 4th ad in the book too. I wouldn't recommed using the Yellow Book if they are in your area. Others may have different opinions but that is mine...

[mowahman]

I did Yellow Pages back in 1981 and all I got were "shoppers". I no longer do any sort of printed advertising in phone books, papers, flyers, etc. Back when I started, I tried listening to the clients...this worked extremely well..they told me everything they wanted and all I had to do is say it back to them in "contractor" terms. For the past 6 years, word of mouth is the best advertising we can't buy. This comes from satisfied clients who constantly refer us, who constantly have add ons, and now related to us almost like family. We now know when and where they are going on vacation, kids college plans, weddings, birthdays, etc. For the past 3 years the only advertising I have done is "yellow hood" advertising..we now sponsor a local
Pro Stock weekly race car. There is a huge show in the Capital City here, when the Cup guys come to town..brings out about 38,000 people. We use this time to meet and greet many prospective clients and use the area to display out talents.

[lsylvain]

So far what I have found works best for me is multiple adds in under different headings.

# 1 it's cheaper than 1 big add
# 2 more people see it

Make sure your name stands out in the alphbetical listings, that's where most people go first then they look at the block adds.

Customer wize I would say I've gotten about 50% from the yellow pages.

Profit wize I would say about 90%

People that call you from the yellow pages are the ones who are looking for you they are usually ready to pay higher prices or have a lot more grass that needs cutting.

[HBFOXJr]

The one thing about yellow pages is that the people are kind of pre qualifying themselves because they are deliberately taking the time to pick up the book and go on a search. They have a need to take care of. It isn't just a lark because they saw you on impulse on a flyer or shoppers paper.

But they still can be tire kickers and need to be screened.

[mlc4163]

There has been some exhaustive research on marketing already preformed. No need for you to reinvent the wheel. The advice I found most useful is 1). Look at the established competitions ads. Are there similarities in the wording, layout ect... Theres a reason XYZ company uses the ads they do. 2) Advertising is a dynamic activity that is not perfect the first time you try. Tweek it in and find what works. 3) Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you run a Yellow page ad and get a 10% hit rate of success and I run an ad and do 4 other things bringing in 10% of my responces then I win. Yadda Yadda Yadda. It's also been provin that in a community forum, i.e. new paper, that a simple black and white ad brings just as much as bold or CAP's or even BOLD CAP's. However in a trade specific forum you go in loaded for bear. The potential customer is looking for your service or he would'nt be browsing that service in the first place. Now, how to view the pages ad? And how to minimize the tire kickers, at $400 a month.
Pick up Guerrilla marketing and don't forget your local chamber of commerce, your education may be an asset worth marketing there.

[dhicks]

I just signed an agreement with the local yellow pages. Our ad will be published in the Verizon Yellow Book for calendar year 2002. Our add is about 2"x3" for $86.00 per month.

Next year at this time I can be more specific as to whether the ad paid for it self or not. I do know that If I only get one-one year customer out of the deal, the ad will have paid off.

I guess the next thing to do is to develop a standard caller questionaire to help me eliminate the price shoppers and eliminate the properties that I would never consider doing.

[SprinklerGuy]

I have done both, big and small. Started out with a small ad, not much success, went bigger, marginally better. This year I was going to cancel when my salesman talked me into an in column ad. It has been 1 month and so far twice as many calls as last year!!! I think the reasons are:

If you have display ad, it better be the biggest, then it will be read first. The first ad they read that applies, they will probably remember.

If you have a smallish display ad it will be farther from the beginning of the section and may never get seen.

My in column ad is alphabetically correct, meaning it is 2nd in line due to a well placed "a". Not like some guys who use "AAaaaa plumbing company" Too many a's. Mine is one of the first ones read and I get a lot of calls.

I used red this time instead of green. Way better!

For once I agree with phil on that one!

My business is a little different in that I am usually needed right away, meaning not necessary to call and kick tires. I think that might make my situation unique as compared to you guys, but here is my $.02.

Good luck

[cp]

:( Boy, I wished I had read this about a week ago!:mad:

[Blade]

I have been in the yellow pages for 2 years now and have 2 column inch ad that cost around $130 a month. From year to date we had maybe 5 calls from new potential customers.
We cancelled ads for next year, we do have a lot of companies in maintenance, maybe 3 pages.

I would consider: whether or not you have someone to answer phone, because if there is no one to answer they more than likely will be calling one of the other 100 companies.

2) Consider how big of an area you are willing to service. Maybe our problem was that 80% of our customer base is in a 6 mile radius. Don't like to spend to much time traveling.

3) You may want to have cell # listed if you don't have office staff. I'd also recommend a plan with free incoming minutes!!

[cos]

I am going with a yellow pages ad. The guy called me on the phone and wants to sit down and talk about it. It's called the yellow book. Alot cheaper than the Verizon book (old Bell Atlantic), but well worth it. My friend told me about it being worth it and I am going for it. It's about $150 a month. I think I can spring for that. My friend said he definetly got more work than he bargained for. I am targeting a specific area, and will hope that the richer High end clients look me up. :)

[SprinklerGuy]

COS......WAIT!

Is it possible that the book is cheaper because they don't distribute as many of them? Is it cheaper because when people get it they don't use it because they are used to using the Verizon? Make sure of these things.

I went with a different yellow pages company also, it worked for me because:

In my area the phone books are HUGE. My daughter sits on ONE of them to eat supper at grandmas whereas when I was a kid we had to stack 2 or 3 of them.

Because of their HUGENESS, people hate to drag them out of the closet. They DON'T keep them by the phone anymore, too big.
I wen with a magazine style phone book in select smaller areas. The reason is because people see it as a local market book and think we are in their neighborhood. Plus, there aren't any other guys like me in there. When they look, they find me only.

If your other yellow pages doesn't distribute enough of them or people don't open it, you have wasted 150 permonth. Better off doing Val Pak.

[HBFOXJr]

I have this gut feeling that some advertising mediums are better for retail than services and vice versa.

Experiences or comments.

Word of mouth

A lot of my clientel is white collar professionals such as Dr, lawyers, up the ladder business execs, well healed self employed etc. Also have many other 2 income families IE: teachers and and engineer, sales rep etc.

I don't feel the upscale ones do a lot by word of mouth. I've always felt that I had the tightest mouthed, happy customers in the world. They are loyal and dependable but even when asked or given an opportunity to refer don't do squat.

We've tried $20 bill credits for referals and have gotten almost none considering how many times it has been available.

The word of mouth seems to work best for things that seem to have a perceived high value like a sprinkler system, when people are pricing them stupidly cheap. Could this word of mouth thing that works so good for many be an indication that they are under priced and people are wise enough to take advantage of them.

A survey, part of The State of the Irrigation Industry, just conducted and published as a supplement in the Sept/Oct Irrigation Business & Technology magazine cites the following. Hundreds of residential sprinkler system owners were surveyed. This is one part of the survey.

Important factors in selecting and irrigation pro.

price 49.2%
available soon 31.3%
references 23.4%
contactors professionalism 20.3%
products to be used 12.5%
warranty 5.5%

Unfortunately this survey in its complete from is only in the magazine and not online.

Reading the entire article and all parts of the survey I think the state of the industry stinks.

Comments, experiences suggestions.

[SprinklerGuy]

foxx, you certainly have a few years on most of us in this industry so if you say it sux, then it must. However:
I am experiencing a boom. Might be the area I live in, might be me, cannot tell but I prefer to think it is the area in which I live. Seems as if my area is a little different, economy is different here for now anyway.

As for your note about word of mouth............GREAT SCOTT, I THINK YOU'VE HIT ON SOMETHING!!!! I think you are absolutely correct. The more affluent folks do not ever talk about their service providers, you are so right. And 10 or 20 bucks......they could give a crap about that money so it is not an incentive at all. I read a book once that said there are several different types of people, one of them being the gatekeeper. The gatekeepers will tell everyone about you if they are prompted. Find the gatekeeper and word of mouth will abound. Problem is the gatekeepers are hard to find.

As for the survey, what a shame. My price is a little higher than most and I am usually booked solid at least a week in advance. That is why a lot of folks who call me cannot use me. Price/availability. I guess it is a blessing to be busy, now if only I would be instantaneously be blessed with the ability to ignore all that money/and those new clients floating away because they cannot wait. Ignorance is bliss.