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NightLightingFX
03-17-2008, 07:24 PM
I have an opportunity to show case my talents in lighting up a 100 year old mansion that is highly recognized in my community. I told the owners however, that I canít light up the mansion until the perimeter glare bombs get addressed. So I first need some advise from you guys on how I can replace or modify these lamps that surround the mansion. The owner is very concerned about security so we still need a significant amount of lumens from these fixtures I just donít want any glare bombs to mess-up the lighting of the mansion. I am wondering if an MR16 lamp pointed up, inside the fixture, and painting the underside of the top of the fixture white would work? Do you have any recommendations regarding replacement fixtures. The owner is restoring this mansion to the original 1908 style. The carriage lamp style is probably preferred. Attached is a pic of the glare bomb lanterns and a broad view of my project.

cpel2004
03-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Any ghosts?

Pro-Scapes
03-17-2008, 11:49 PM
good luck on this. If your state requires you may wish to collaberate with an electrician for the building mounted fixtures especially if you expect to run wires within.

James popped in with a good trick of using par 20 lamps in fixtures. You may wish to try something like that. Make sure anything you do looks like it could of been there in that period. We did a 1903 home and did our best to keep with the period for the landscape renovation and lighting altho the new orleans pathlights they chose didnt fit as much as I would of liked they still look quite well.

I hope you like building mounted fixtures because your going to need them on this one. That Gazebo could be stunning.

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 01:10 AM
In my mind I was pretty much was planning on trying R20 lamps I just mentioned MR16 to clarify my idea - (some people might not know what R20 lamps are). I may be able to convert the fixtures to low voltage? I am concerned about alot of watts being used with R20s. Maybe I can take out the lens of the current fixture and have them sand blasted to frost them? I really don't want to have my name on this job if there is a bunch of glare bombs all over the place. I am I being too picky about this. This project will be seen by everyone in the community. It is right off the highway going over the Columbia River Blue Brigde.
~Ned

Pro-Scapes
03-18-2008, 08:12 AM
You will just have to educate the client and demonstrate some different lamps in them. If they are unwilling to use your suggestions perhaps suggest dimmers.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2008, 10:05 AM
Ned... drop the R20 lamps and upgrade to PAR20 Lamps in those post top fixtures and any other line voltage fixture with a med. base socket. Trust me the effect is fabulous, the clients will love it. No glare, the fixture fills with indirect light and the output can be maintained if necessary.... just move up to the 50W PAR20s. Those R20 lamps have maybe 1000 hours in them when installed outside. The 130V Sylvania PAR20 lamps will give you 5000+ hours and much nicer colour.

Get your thinking cap on my friend... you are going to need a bunch of surface mounted fixtures on that structure... and check your local ordinances on heritage properties. If that home is listed as a heritage building you will probably not be allowed to introduce any holes into the structure. If it is not specifically listed, then no worries. Something for you to consider.

By the layout of the driveways and parking it looks like it might be a commercial building... or the client just has a lot of cars to park.

:)You might want to hold off until the client picks that whole thing up and moves it to higher ground! What river is that in the photo? Nice dyke. How does one sleep at night in the spring there? Is there a river height monitor that sounds an alarm when a flood is inevitable?:)

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 12:08 PM
James,
a little geography/history lesson. That is the "Mighty Columbia River." There is no major threat of the Columbia River flooding any more because the river has been tamed. There is a lot of dams on the Columbia River. These dams produce most of the eletricity for the Northwest, enable irrigation for ag, and prevent flooding. That dike was built over 50 years ago after the last big flood, and before the dams were built. The mansion has been through the ringer. I don't think it really has been lived in by a single residence until recently. I know the original owner didn't live there long. (Fast forward 70 years) - As a kid I remember it as an "old folks home." There were a couple of failed ventures as a restraunt. Then someone tried to burn it down for insurance claimes. The current owners have been painstakingly fixing it up themselves. I believe they plan on using the site for special events etc. I grew up not far from the mansion so I have some emotional ties to it. It would be a huge thrill to help bring it back to its old glory.
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2008, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the background Ned. :)

If you find yourself in a pickle, I would be more then happy to fly out there and assist in the design & specification... for a percentage fee + applicable expenses of course. I have a lot of experience in subtlely lighting heritage buildings.

Have a great day

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 12:21 PM
Re: par 20 lamps,
What is the smallest wattage per lamp I can get? Can you imagine the electricity bill if I use 50 watt lamps for all those fixtures? That will be an issue for the owner. The owner works for a large power company. The use of power efficiently in this project needs to be considered. Currently they have the good ol' flourescent swirl lamps in the fixtures. I will try to get a picture of the place tonight.
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2008, 12:26 PM
Ned. Sylvania makes a 35W PAR20 Halogen Lamp. They come in Spot, Narrow Flood and Wide Flood configurations. Apparently the 130V units have been discontinued so you are left with the 120V lamps. I would not use 'cheapy' PAR20 lamps as they don't last.

Also, believe it or not, there are a large number of quality 120V PAR30 LED lamps now available. I haven't tested any but they offer impressive numbers and use up to 75% less electricity per lamp.

So, when shall I book my flight? :)

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 12:31 PM
James,
Thanks for the offer, but I don't plan on making too much of a profit on this project. Just the exposure of doing the project will be a HUGE promotional venue for me. Not to mention I am emotionally attached to the structure. I have pretty much told the owners how much I want to be involved with this project and that I will give them a VERY low price for my services just as long as we address the glare bombs around the perimeter. I told them that I can't do anything with the house until we address the glare bombs.
~Ned

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 12:35 PM
Great idea!
re: LED pars. Do you think I need to paint the underside of the fixtures white? To help increase reflective light.
~Ned

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 03:19 PM
James & Billy,
Do you have pics of your heritage projects?
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2008, 03:29 PM
Ned... one of my 'resolutions for 2008' is to get off my lazy butt and start taking more photos of my work. I am embarassed to say that I did not take one lighting photo in all of 2006 or 2007! Me Bad!

I plan on rectifying this in a big way come spring and summer. No more excuses about being home for the kids, or that I am just too tired to go back out at night and shoot. In this business you must keep an up to date record of your work.

Regards.

JoeyD
03-18-2008, 04:09 PM
Ned,

you could consider frosting the lenses with some glass beads.

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 04:37 PM
Joey,
What are glass beads?
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2008, 04:43 PM
Ned... there are lots of things you could consider doing... heck you could consider torturing yourself too!

I have played around with acid etching, frosting, seeding and replacing the glass in existing fixtures. I'm telling you, there is nothing faster, more efficient and more dramatic then simply installing new directional lamps inside of existing glare bombs.

You might get a nice effect by altering the glass on the fixtures, but it will take you a lot of time and the results are somewhat spotty... or you will have to sub this out.. again lots of time and money.

The $7.00 PAR20 Lamp is the way to go here.

JoeyD
03-18-2008, 04:59 PM
Glass beads is a material used for essentially "sand blasting" the glass to frost it. It is an easy process but requires the use of a sand blaster and unless you have a contained sand blasting machine can cause a mess. We have one in house so it makes it really easy to do , probably takes 1 minute per lens that size with the equipment we have. I am sure there are guys in your area that do this.

Like james said the EASY way is to just replace lamps but you will still see right through that clear class. I like frosting the glass then using real low wattage frosted flame tip lamps. You have a few options to accomplish what you want. Antoher thing would be to install a UPB system and set those post lanterns to come on at say 15% intensity during the times your L/s Lighting is on. Then when the l/s lighting goes off say at midnight then you can program it to turn those post lights up to 100% to remain on for saftey and security. Just another idea.

NightLightingFX
03-18-2008, 06:34 PM
Joey,
Good idea re: UPB brightness level. James, I will do the directional lamp for sure. I am just open to what other options there are also. Do you think painting the inside of the top of the fixture white will make any difference? When I experiment with this I will attach white paper to the inside top and see how it works.
~Ned

JoeyD
03-18-2008, 06:47 PM
I'm thinking outloud here but isnt there some sort of frosted spray stuff or paint on stuff that people use during the holidays to give there windows the appearance of being frosted or snowy for lack of a better term??? Is this something that could be applied and would stay permenantly? I always see this type of stuff on windows durign the holidays on liek the resturaunts and grocery stores? Not sure but just tossing something out there.....

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2008, 09:08 PM
Guys you are missing the beauty of the directional PAR20 lamp here! You don't need to frost over the glass because you will not have a direct line of sight to the lamp. It is 100% directional... the light will be aimed up into the top of the fixture and then reflect back and fill the body of the fixture with light. See the effect, not the source!

BR20 and other lamps all allow a portion of the light produced to come out of the body of the lamp... not so with a PAR20... 100% of the light produced is directional, just like a good dichroic MR16 is.

Try it, you will like it!

greenbaylawns
03-18-2008, 09:23 PM
Any ghosts?

That river scares me more than any ghost

Pro-Scapes
03-18-2008, 10:51 PM
James & Billy,
Do you have pics of your heritage projects?
~Ned

a few but not many since I have done alot of the additions to it. Email me and I will send them to you they are not the higest quality since it was before we bought a nice camera

NightLightingFX
03-19-2008, 01:54 AM
I went out and experimented tonight. Using the directional light does work well. I tried a par20, par30, and a Compact fluorescent R30 Floodlight-16 watts 2700K (comparable to 75 watts for incandescent). I also experimented with a white coating on the inside of the top of the fixture using paper. The fluorescent R30 worked GREAT. It was just as good as the halogen lamps. A white coating on the underside is mandatory. That simple white coating creates A LOT more reflective light. The fact that the FL R30 uses only 16 watts is a big relief. Attached are some pics you may be able to get an idea of the differences. FYI you really need the white reflective underside. You canít tell in the pics but there wasnít a lot of light output without the white reflector.
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-19-2008, 08:38 AM
Amazing how simply changing the lamp can alter and update a fixture. :)

Never thought of using the new R30 CFLs... around here it gets too cold in the winter for them to start properly. Low Temperature ballasts have yet to show up in CFL's, and this really affects their lamp life when used in freezing conditions.

Have a great day.