Rat or competitor?

[crew]

Last year around this time, I met a guy who was interested in adding lawn care to his snow plowing service. He was not going to do the work himself. He was going to hire 1 or 2 guys. I answered all his questions honestly and thoroughly.
Lo and behold at the start of this season I see a trailer with his name on it and sure as heck, he's in the lawn buisness.
Ran into him last week and asked how things were going etc. Before long we are talking price and his seem way low. I give him the usual "you should quit screwing yourself and me and raise your prices to a respectable level because you can" line.
Bfore long he says something to the effect of "I'd never make it if i had to pay workers comp and witholding on my 2 guys".

So the question is; do I turn this guy in as a tax cheat? I Hope the argument for this is obvious. On the other hand, he is a little guy (40 accts.-tops) and almost insignificant in the big picture.
I feel compelled to turn him in because I was so forthright in answering his questions and I'm certain we talked about the stuff hes cheating on.

P.S. - The guy was driving a brand new Yukon and is by no streach of the imagination, hurting .

Any similar experiences or thoughts are welcome.

[SprinklerGuy]

I think it's best to be able to live with yourself and look in the mirror and know that you DIDN'T turn someone in. He will get his eventually, they always do.

I have wanted to turn in bunches of guys for installing lawn sprinkler systems without a contractor's license but I never have because I have plenty of work and the people they are working for can't afford me anyway. That is how I justify it to myself anyway!!!

What comes around goes around.

[Green Care]

There's no need to go that far,with this guy.
I'm sure he,s not in your way.

[groundsguy1970]

If he starts to bid against your holdings in any way politely tell him you will light him up for pissing on your tree.:)

[Fantasy Lawns]

don't let him rent space in your head ..... goes around ....comes around

[bobbygedd]

if this guy is like me, he will "evolve". a couple years ago i myself didnt believe in insurance, pesticide license, etc. but, soon enough i realized i couldnt run a proffesional service without being legit. he will probably end up legit or out of the biz, i wouldnt turn him in.

[Richard Martin]

crew,
Your example guy is a lightweight. One of my local competitors and good friend does this:

1: Has never filed with the state for personal property tax (required in Maryland) on his business.
2: Still owes both state and federal taxes for '99.
3: Never filed state and federal returns or make estimated payments for '00 and '01.
4: Sells plant and other materials at a profit when doing landscape installations and doesn't collect or turn in sales tax.
5: Sells firewood without the required permit and doesn't collect or turn in sales tax.
6: Does landscaping without the required Maryland State Home Improvement Commision license.
7: Does tree trimming without the required Maryland Department Of Natural Resources tree trimming license.
8: Regularly switches license plates between vehicles because he has 3 licensed vehicles and 2 unlicensed vehicles.
9: No workers comp.
10: Has never filled out any paperwork, either federal or state, regarding employees.

The hammer will fall on this guy eventually and when it does it's gonna squash him flat to the ground.

[MATTHEW]

Around here, they'll turn you in if someone notices you have "non-comm" plates on the truck. There was a post a while back. I think it was titled something like- If you cant beat 'em join 'em or something like that. Well this guy tried to turn someone in and the Gov't official said they don't have the recources to chase these guys around, and they basically did'nt care. What gives? Guys like us who spend the first $1,000-$5,000 on required expenses every month look like idiots to the law breakers.:mad:

[GrassMaster]

Hello:

Just try to Help him all you can to make it a Level Playing Field.

You have nothing to gain by Turning him in, as far as a Tax Cheat, at one time or another Everybody has Cheated on Taxes? Right?

I would do Time before I Turn anybody in? What do you really Gain from it. Is he the Only one that would Suffer or Does he have family? Lot more involved than just him?

Help him Understand How to Make More Money & You have a Friend for Life!

[Runner]

and please....don't tell him about Lawnsite.:rolleyes:

[Randy Scott]

I know some of you will disagree with me, but this is exactly why I don't socialize with other people in this trade. First off, I don't have time, secondly, you tried to be the nice guy and help this guy out by trying to give him advice. Screw him, let him learn on his own. Now it's eating you up inside that he's not legit. The less you know the better off you are. I have talked a couple times only this year to other LCO's. It was brief and that was all. I wave when the opportunity rises otherwise I don't care at all to be buddies. People talk about how it's good to be friends in case you need some help or whatever. I'm trying to be self sufficient and if I ever run into a problem I'll deal with it then.

[bobbygedd]

grassmaster, do u really help your direct competition to "make all the money they can"? im all for being friendly and all, but i have to draw the line. i mean, this spring i picked up a new customer in an area where ive never worked, the properties in this neighborhood(real bad soil) have a history of crappy lawns, after seeing how well my clients lawn looked this season even through what was a very rough season in my area for lawns, 5 of the neighbors booted their service and contracted me for next season( at pretty high fees) . i dont tell my direct competition too much.

[plow kid]

Nice Flowering Kale, groundsguy.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Since the turn the guy in thing was descussed before, I will say you forgot to call him a SCRUB

[odin]

I agree with grassmaster and besides he just might get in big trouble when one of those uninsured workers get hurt on the job .
he doesnt know how big of a chance hes takeing not have workers comp.

[crew]

Godfather - I did not want to pick the old "scrub scab" but a spade IS a spade.!!!

You are all right and Im glad to see you all feel the same. I know lots of guys like this are around and I know lots of people cheat at many things, but every so often it pisses me off and i feel like making one of them hurt.
I really hope the guy gets his. I just hope he doesnt take mine first!!

On the issue of "fraternizing'; I will continue to be kind and helpful to others who are the same. I have some bad karma from my youth that may or may not be repaid just yet. Also, there are some really good people in this buisness and good people are becoming harder to find.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Crew, I have many other LCO's on my phone list and my direct connect (Nextel Phone). We chat, BS, corespond, help each other out, ETC....

One of them runs 3 crews and is a complete scub, but he in not a bad person.

One is solo.

The others run 2 to 30 crews.

It's amaizing how we each help each other.

Just today I was asked to do some plow work for one that does not plow in the area that he picked up those accounts in, but I do.
If a lot of guys would just work together they would get a lot futher ahead than if they were to do it by them selves.

That's part of what this site is all about.

[Albemarle Lawn]

By not paying taxes, he could be screwed by no Social Security or disability help should something happen to him.

He could get screwed very bady if he becomes disabled or, when he retires he could have a miserable life if he did not contribute to social security or make any other provisions.

No need to turn him in- what goes around comes around.

Ken

[Pacific Nursery]

I feel the Golden Rule applies to business as well as personal life.
I'm a little hesitant about sharing info with someone who might be a competitor, but I've noticed that the happiest people I know will give you the shirt off their back. And basically for me, happiness is goal ONE! Profits and success are somewhere after that.
Help someone out today and tell them to pay it forward.

[gogetter]

[i]
On the issue of "fraternizing'; I will continue to be kind and helpful to others who are the same. [/B]

Good to hear you say that Crew! It's posts like Randy's that make newer guys feel like they can't approach them to say hi and discuss things like mowers, p.i.t.a. customers, etc.
Not saying that to pick on ya Randy, just using your post as an example.